Dawn princess Norovirus

[chengkp75]

here's a quote from Wikipedia.

 

"Alcohol rubs kill many different kinds of bacteria, including antibiotic resistant bacteria and TB bacteria. 90% alcohol rubs also have high virucidal activity against many different kinds of viruses (but are highly flammable), including enveloped viruses such as the flu virus, the common cold virus, and HIV, though is notably ineffective against the rabies virus.[14][15][16] Alcohol rub sanitizers are not very effective against Norovirus (winter vomiting virus) unless they are combined with benzalkonium chloride in a hand sanitizer."

 

So, does the sanitiser the ships use contain benzalkonium chloride? If not they're next to useless against noro but I suppose it makes people feel good that they're doing something.

 

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The EPA rates "quats" like benzalkonium chloride as "low level disinfectants" meaning they are only effective against certain bacteria and viruses. Quats can cause contact dermatitis in some people. Quats also have a quite long "dwell time" or "contact time", around 10 minutes, for full effectiveness. Dwell time requires the agent to be in contact with a hard surface (skin and soft surfaces are more difficult), and remain wet for the full dwell time.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjACahUKEwiw0IDGnuzGAhVDax4KHbKRB9Q&url=http%3A%2F%2Feducation.nh.gov%2Finstruction%2Fschool_health%2Fdocuments%2Fdisinfectants.pdf&ei=5jyuVbDFDsPWebKjnqAN&usg=AFQjCNHQYTnzk6rzLl0tS-HFmx9xB--POg

[Opua Kiwi]

I have just heard from my mother who is presently on the ship and she said she is keeping well but the trouble comes people are not staying in their cabins once they get the symptoms.

We have been on board a couple of ships during a red alert and unfortunately it comes down to those people who think they are better than the rest of us who won't get room service and stay in their cabins...they walk up and down the stairs touching the handrail and for many people they have to touch it and the lift buttons as well...we use our elbows to touch the lift buttons if we have to rather than hands and have a tissue in our hand to use the stairs if we need to touch the handrail and dispose of it asap.

I find sometimes after extensive sanitizing that I need to use a good hand cream.

Mum is on until the ship arrives back in Sydney in September so fingers crossed they can get rid of it. I understand it is 72 hours after the last reported case that they can relax

[Greensteam]

I can never understand why the staff don't say something when they see folks not using the sanitiser unit and sometimes they don't even have staff in front entrance of MDR - to make people feel guilty if they don't use it

It is such a BIG problem, I really think the cruise lines should be more authoritarian and proactive with this as well as, with the terrible "flu bugs" that spread around uncontrolled

 

I've seen PAX who should be in their cabins coughing, sneezing and looking really unwell with a heavy cold/flu and blatantly moving around the ship, in the food areas, theatre etc. These people have no consideration for themselves let alone fellow passengers.

 

 

RANT over...lol!

 

:mad:

 

I just came off a 4 day short cruise on Pacific Pearl and the staff were at the head of every line insisting that people use the hand sanitizer lotion. You don't get past without a squirt. I think it's a great idea and don't have a problem with it. They should have a "No squirt, No eat" policy in the buffet areas. Even the greeting staff at the Waterfront Restaurant had hand sanitizer bottles. You had to put your hands out for a squirt to get past them.

[OzKiwiJJ]

I have just heard from my mother who is presently on the ship and she said she is keeping well but the trouble comes people are not staying in their cabins once they get the symptoms.

We have been on board a couple of ships during a red alert and unfortunately it comes down to those people who think they are better than the rest of us who won't get room service and stay in their cabins...they walk up and down the stairs touching the handrail and for many people they have to touch it and the lift buttons as well...we use our elbows to touch the lift buttons if we have to rather than hands and have a tissue in our hand to use the stairs if we need to touch the handrail and dispose of it asap.

I find sometimes after extensive sanitizing that I need to use a good hand cream.

Mum is on until the ship arrives back in Sydney in September so fingers crossed they can get rid of it. I understand it is 72 hours after the last reported case that they can relax

 

Ships almost need a quarantine ward for people like that.

 

Wild Ferns lanolin hand and nail creme is very soothing. ;)

 

Hope your Mum stays well. I'm also hoping they get rid of it as I board her on the 20th August. I imagine they will do a deep sanitise of the whole ship when she docks at Fremantle on Saturday.

 

On our Noro-affected Sun cruise last Christmas they did a deep sanitise at Suva, half way through the cruise. Reported numbers dropped a few days after than then increased slightly on the last couple of days - presumably because some late cases decided to spread their infection around the ship after the sanitisation.

 

If your Mum is able to keep you posted on the situation, I'd appreciate it if you could post updates here. Thanks. :)

[tickford]

I was going to get the Hands first sanitiser for our last cruise after reading about it here, I thought better be somewhat safe than sorry. I got talked out of it by my friend who is a nurse and said I was over reacting.

I did have the other though and I became a bit obsessive using it and wash, wash, wash and careful where I put my hands.

A day or two before we officially found out about the noro outbreak I saw one particular worker wiping chairs and tables which made me wonder what he was doing because that is all he was doing however he may have well saved doing it, his wiping was truly truly pathetic, if they are going to clean something they need to do it properly and not how this person was doing out.

Hubby and I did not get sick but my friend and her hubby did, quarantined for a number of days.

[qualifiedcruiseologist]

I was going to get the Hands first sanitiser for our last cruise after reading about it here, I thought better be somewhat safe than sorry. I got talked out of it by my friend who is a nurse and said I was over reacting.

I did have the other though and I became a bit obsessive using it and wash, wash, wash and careful where I put my hands.

A day or two before we officially found out about the noro outbreak I saw one particular worker wiping chairs and tables which made me wonder what he was doing because that is all he was doing however he may have well saved doing it, his wiping was truly truly pathetic, if they are going to clean something they need to do it properly and not how this person was doing out.

Hubby and I did not get sick but my friend and her hubby did, quarantined for a number of days.

I completely agree with you about the pathetic wiping of the chair. It is the same with the tables,rails etc. It seems to me that they wipe a few spots on an object and then claim that it is fully sanitised, when it obviously is not.

[thistledoo]

The Hands First website in Australia does mail order, free postage. They have several sizes available and there is also a small list of retailers. Thinking I might get the pack of six 50ml bottles.

[OzKiwiJJ]

The Hands First website in Australia does mail order, free postage. They have several sizes available and there is also a small list of retailers. Thinking I might get the pack of six 50ml bottles.

 

The 50ml bottles are a very convenient size for travel. I carry one in my handbag, one in my evening bag, one in our pool bag, DH has one in his bag, one in our small backpack for port days, and a spare.

 

Also remember those bottles are refillable so don't throw them out when they are empty. They have a handy 1 litre refill pack which is very good value.

[bearone]

Hi there,

 

We have managed to keep well here on Dawn Princess amidst the Norovirus outbreak, but have been hyper vigilant about handwashing. I was interested to find out from my friend whose husband was confined to his cabin whilst symptomatic that Princess do not provide complimentary access to minibar supplies such as bottled water, lemonade etc nor do they offer compensation for the day missed on board whilst confined to his cabin. They did not offer him a special diet suited to gastrointestinal illness such as clear soup, jelly etc. Worst of all they had to pay for medication, doctor consults etc. They are following up some of the charges though.When my son contracted Norovirus on RCCL a couple of years back, they gave us the equivalent of two days $$ credit for our lost days of our cruise for each day he was confined and we had unlimited use of anything at all in the minibar as well as free first run movies( normally $12.00) plus free medical care, medication and a special menu suited to GI illness. They were excellent ! I have renewed confidence in RCCL now especially in relation to their handling of the Norovirus confinement.

Just to add interest to this cruise, yesterday at dinner time the ship suddenly lurched violently about 45 degrees to one side causing glasses to fall and some degree of fright for many passengers and staff. The Captain came over the PA system saying it was a strong current and his officers would search the ship for anyone needing help.( there are many elderly on board). Many staff said it was the worst such incident they had ever experienced and that the captain veered to miss a small boat( we were sailing out of Lombok). That was my immediate thought as I said to my son at the time that it did not feel right and we rushed out of our cabin as did numerous other passengers. As far as I know no one was hurt, interesting incident though, my first in about 45 cruises. :eek:

[bubbles2014]

I completely agree with you about the pathetic wiping of the chair. It is the same with the tables,rails etc. It seems to me that they wipe a few spots on an object and then claim that it is fully sanitised, when it obviously is not.

 

I observed the "cleaning" of tables on the Diamond this year......pathetic!

The cloth was never washed between many tables and then to cap it off, the chairs got wiped in the mix................yuck.

 

I was really wondering whether to say something but did not want to be one of "those" passengers.

Would you or have you ever spoken up when you have seen an unhygienic practise onboard?????

Edited July 22, 2015 by bubbles2014

[qualifiedcruiseologist]

I observed the "cleaning" of tables on the Diamond this year......pathetic!

The cloth was never washed between many tables and then to cap it off, the chairs got wiped in the mix................yuck.

 

I was really wondering whether to say something but did not want to be one of "those" passengers.

Would you or have you ever spoken up when you have seen an unhygienic practise onboard?????

 

I would really love to say something to the crew regarding hygiene issues, but I never have the guts to.

[CruiserBruce]

Why should the ship provide free medications if you get sick? Why should the ship give you a free day, or days, on board, if you are sick? Do you have some proof that the ship is responsible for the outbreak? Most likely the sickness was brought onboard by a passenger, and it appears to be passed among the passengers by poor habits by the passengers themselves.

Edited July 22, 2015 by CruiserBruce

[OzKiwiJJ]

We have managed to keep well here on Dawn Princess amidst the Norovirus outbreak, but have been hyper vigilant about handwashing.

 

That's good to hear, not so good about your friend's husband though. How many cases of Noro are there at the moment?

 

I guess it's too early to hear whether they are planning a deep cleanse when you arrive at Fremantle.

 

Just to add interest to this cruise, yesterday at dinner time the ship suddenly lurched violently about 45 degrees to one side causing glasses to fall and some degree of fright for many passengers and staff.

 

:eek: That would have been scary. :eek:

[Russell21]

Hi there,

 

We have managed to keep well here on Dawn Princess amidst the Norovirus outbreak, but have been hyper vigilant about handwashing. I was interested to find out from my friend whose husband was confined to his cabin whilst symptomatic that Princess do not provide complimentary access to minibar supplies such as bottled water, lemonade etc nor do they offer compensation for the day missed on board whilst confined to his cabin. They did not offer him a special diet suited to gastrointestinal illness such as clear soup, jelly etc. Worst of all they had to pay for medication, doctor consults etc. They are following up some of the charges though.When my son contracted Norovirus on RCCL a couple of years back, they gave us the equivalent of two days $$ credit for our lost days of our cruise for each day he was confined and we had unlimited use of anything at all in the minibar as well as free first run movies( normally $12.00) plus free medical care, medication and a special menu suited to GI illness. They were excellent ! I have renewed confidence in RCCL now especially in relation to their handling of the Norovirus confinement.

Just to add interest to this cruise, yesterday at dinner time the ship suddenly lurched violently about 45 degrees to one side causing glasses to fall and some degree of fright for many passengers and staff. The Captain came over the PA system saying it was a strong current and his officers would search the ship for anyone needing help.( there are many elderly on board). Many staff said it was the worst such incident they had ever experienced and that the captain veered to miss a small boat( we were sailing out of Lombok). That was my immediate thought as I said to my son at the time that it did not feel right and we rushed out of our cabin as did numerous other passengers. As far as I know no one was hurt, interesting incident though, my first in about 45 cruises. :eek:

 

A decent travel insurance would have covered and compensated for days confined and any medical expenses, my insurance does.

[Russell21]

This one, Geblues. http://www.handsfirst.com.au/

 

I discovered it through this forum actually.

 

I bought a pack of the refillable 50ml bottles, which are great for travel, and now I just buy the refill pack to keep them topped up.

 

They are super-efficient at sending out the online orders. I put my last order in at about 4pm one afternoon and it was delivered early morning the next day, interstate.

 

Thanks JJJ, just ordered the 2x50ml with 1x200ml pack.

[bearone]

Hi,

 

Re the Rccl versus Princess Norovirus compensation, it was merely an observation and clearly a stark contrast in how the two companies handled it with regard to compensation offered. We certainly appreciated Royals generous compensation when we became sick. I am not sure of exact numbers affected on board, but they are still serving in buffet and no perfume samples out in gift shop etc, so I gather we remain on red level alert. Will try and find out if any delays for embarking passengers in Fremantle. Geraldton tomorrow and our last day:(

[OzKiwiJJ]

Thanks bearone.

[Aussieflyer]

Why should the ship provide free medications if you get sick? Why should the ship give you a free day, or days, on board, if you are sick? Do you have some proof that the ship is responsible for the outbreak? Most likely the sickness was brought onboard by a passenger, and it appears to be passed among the passengers by poor habits by the passengers themselves.

 

I cannot speak for the OPs situation, but when we had a Noro outbreak on Silversea in the Arctic, because of the number of passengers who were ill, the line did not charge for doctor or medication. The reasoning was that the ship had not been able e to shut down the outbreak, regardless of where it had originated. I assume that a similar situation has occurred. I would think there is a particular percentage of cases required.

[Geblues]

Hi all,

 

I will post on the roll call as well.

Two things:

1. My sister works for a company incharge of the passengers at Fremantle wharf and the airport. She rang us to say about not getting on board early due to the Norovirus onboard apparently 13 cases. The Ship and terminal will be sanitised but all will go ahead to schedule, finish loading people at 1615 and set sail at 1700hrs. Princess had already told us not to get there before 2.30

2. Spoke to my chemist who said that Benzalkonium Chloride is just a preservative, not an active ingredient and that it is the alcohol that does the sanitising but not as good as a good hand wash routine. I had also been told that the hand sanitiser gels are bad for you... of course they are shocking on my hands, they go dry and crack. I have my own but also have a natural sanitising spray that I got a while ago. All natural products but does the job. We normally buy Dettol foaming handwash for home, non-drying, smells great and kills 99.9% of germs. One of the main problem areas is under the nails. I chopped up a chilli the other night and even after a number of washes/shower, I still had the sting of chilli under my nails... so if chilli can stay through that, don't you think that bugs need more than just a quick wash? Scary thought.

 

PS, Apparently I was also told that the Norovirus isn't anywhere near as bad as last year.

 

Let's hope :o

[chengkp75]

Hi there,

 

 

Just to add interest to this cruise, yesterday at dinner time the ship suddenly lurched violently about 45 degrees to one side causing glasses to fall and some degree of fright for many passengers and staff. The Captain came over the PA system saying it was a strong current and his officers would search the ship for anyone needing help.( there are many elderly on board). Many staff said it was the worst such incident they had ever experienced and that the captain veered to miss a small boat( we were sailing out of Lombok). That was my immediate thought as I said to my son at the time that it did not feel right and we rushed out of our cabin as did numerous other passengers. As far as I know no one was hurt, interesting incident though, my first in about 45 cruises. :eek:

 

Just to pick a few nits here, while I'm sure it felt as if the ship heeled over 45*, it was far from that, given your description. Had the ship actually gone over to 45*, no one would have remained on their feet, not a chair onboard would have remained upright, and virtually no glass, dish, or bottle of liquor would have survived intact. I have been on a cruise ship that heeled over about 35+*, and we sent 100 guests to the hospital, most with broken limbs.

 

The statement about veering to avoid collision is probably correct, as with the ship travelling at any rate of speed, violent turning will induce a heel away from the direction of turn.

[Geblues]

Just to pick a few nits here, while I'm sure it felt as if the ship heeled over 45*, it was far from that, given your description. Had the ship actually gone over to 45*, no one would have remained on their feet, not a chair onboard would have remained upright, and virtually no glass, dish, or bottle of liquor would have survived intact. I have been on a cruise ship that heeled over about 35+*, and we sent 100 guests to the hospital, most with broken limbs.

 

The statement about veering to avoid collision is probably correct, as with the ship travelling at any rate of speed, violent turning will induce a heel away from the direction of turn.

Yes I did think the same thing, anyone on a balcony or on deck would have flipped overboard and many of the elderly would have fallen over and broken a hip, arm or collar bone. It sounds good though.

[chengkp75]

Yes I did think the same thing, anyone on a balcony or on deck would have flipped overboard and many of the elderly would have fallen over and broken a hip, arm or collar bone. It sounds good though.

 

In the case I mention, the injuries were not restricted to the elderly.

 

I don't think that even at 45*, people would be flipped off their balconies, but there would be quite a lot of bruised or snapped ribs from folks sliding down the balcony and slamming into the railing.

[to_dee]

Hi all,

 

I will post on the roll call as well.

Two things:

1. My sister works for a company incharge of the passengers at Fremantle wharf and the airport. She rang us to say about not getting on board early due to the Norovirus onboard apparently 13 cases. The Ship and terminal will be sanitised but all will go ahead to schedule, finish loading people at 1615 and set sail at 1700hrs. Princess had already told us not to get there before 2.30

2. Spoke to my chemist who said that Benzalkonium Chloride is just a preservative, not an active ingredient and that it is the alcohol that does the sanitising but not as good as a good hand wash routine. I had also been told that the hand sanitiser gels are bad for you... of course they are shocking on my hands, they go dry and crack. I have my own but also have a natural sanitising spray that I got a while ago. All natural products but does the job. We normally buy Dettol foaming handwash for home, non-drying, smells great and kills 99.9% of germs. One of the main problem areas is under the nails. I chopped up a chilli the other night and even after a number of washes/shower, I still had the sting of chilli under my nails... so if chilli can stay through that, don't you think that bugs need more than just a quick wash? Scary thought.

 

PS, Apparently I was also told that the Norovirus isn't anywhere near as bad as last year.

 

Let's hope :o

 

Glad to hear about the sanitising of the ship when it docks.

 

FWIW I am not convinced your pharmacist is correct in regards to Benzalkonium Chloride. Whilst it is true it can be used as a preservative, that is usually in eye, ear and nasal products. In fact it is common in eye product - this I know as I am allergic to eye drops with preservatives in them LOL. However it can also be used as an active ingredient in products such as alcohol based hand san. In fact Benzalkonium chloride is classed as a Category III antiseptic active ingredient by the United States FDA. In regards to the gels being bad for you I do think there may well be some truth in that statement. Or to be fairer my understanding is that there have been no long term studies to show the effectiveness and safety. I did also see on the web the reason the US FDA classifies it as cat 3 is that is means available data are insufficient to classify as safe and effective, and further testing is required.

 

Food for thought anyway :p

 

And I do appreciate the info on this thread as it prompted me to do further research as I have been a huge hand san user esp on our last cruise. I think we may head towards the Hands First option as well. Thanks again for that info as I had not heard of that one either.

 

geblues ...do you have the brand of the natural hand san you use? That sounds interesting as well.

 

:):)

 

ETA ....LOL @ me ...I just went to check the ingredients of the hands first and the primary ingredient is our friend Benzalkonium Chloride

 

Dang I am confused. What to use? LOL. I know soap and water is fine & will focus on that but we have a child and as much as we try to get him to not touch hand rails etc I would feel better to do a hands clean prior to him eating even if we go cabin straight to table. I am going to do more research on this over the weekend

Edited July 23, 2015 by to_dee

[RayWitt001]

Excuse my ignorance, but are there toilets located near/in the main eating areas of cruise ships? Would it be possible to call past and do a proper wash immediately before sitting down to eat?

I have never been a fan of hand sanitisers and would much prefer a soap and water wash. I know it will likely be inevitable that we use them on the cruise though, but for my own peace of mind I would rather wash than rub.

Is there any proof that the alcohol based ones are not as effective? From what I read Benzalkonium Chloride is effective for bacteria, but not so much for viruses - i.e. Norovirus.

Edited July 24, 2015 by RayWitt001

[bubbles2014]

Glad to hear about the sanitising of the ship when it docks.

 

FWIW I am not convinced your pharmacist is correct in regards to Benzalkonium Chloride. Whilst it is true it can be used as a preservative, that is usually in eye, ear and nasal products. In fact it is common in eye product - this I know as I am allergic to eye drops with preservatives in them LOL. However it can also be used as an active ingredient in products such as alcohol based hand san. In fact Benzalkonium chloride is classed as a Category III antiseptic active ingredient by the United States FDA. In regards to the gels being bad for you I do think there may well be some truth in that statement. Or to be fairer my understanding is that there have been no long term studies to show the effectiveness and safety. I did also see on the web the reason the US FDA classifies it as cat 3 is that is means available data are insufficient to classify as safe and effective, and further testing is required.

 

Food for thought anyway :p

 

And I do appreciate the info on this thread as it prompted me to do further research as I have been a huge hand san user esp on our last cruise. I think we may head towards the Hands First option as well. Thanks again for that info as I had not heard of that one either.

 

geblues ...do you have the brand of the natural hand san you use? That sounds interesting as well.

 

:):)

 

ETA ....LOL @ me ...I just went to check the ingredients of the hands first and the primary ingredient is our friend Benzalkonium Chloride

 

Dang I am confused. What to use? LOL. I know soap and water is fine & will focus on that but we have a child and as much as we try to get him to not touch hand rails etc I would feel better to do a hands clean prior to him eating even if we go cabin straight to table. I am going to do more research on this over the weekend

 

 

 

BUT please don't rely on what you read on the WEB!

It does not always tell the whole story or even the correct info.

 

Personally I'd rather talk directly to an expert like a chemist and be advised by their professionalism and knowledge

Edited July 24, 2015 by bubbles2014