BA vs Virgin

[wowzz]

I'm in the process of sorting out flights for our Panama transit cruise next year. We're flying into Boston from LHR for a few days, before flying down to FLL to pick up the Island Princess, and then at the end of our cruise, flying back to LHR from LAX.

Basically,we are looking at flying Premium Economy on either BA or Virgin. The costs are virtually identical, and the schedules are both OK, although BA are a bit better.

So the crunch comes down to the equipment:

 

LHR - BOS: BA: 747 [Great!!] VS A340

 

LAX - LHR : BA A380 VS 787

 

I'm tending towards the BA option, but before booking I'm hoping that some of the experts out there will give me some guidance.

[john watson]

I have flown BA on the giant A380 premium economy. I pre-selected seats and got a pair by the windon upstairs. These were excellent; the headroom is lower than normal but the elbow room at the actual window was vastly increased due to the outward curve of the wall coming down and theres a cupboard slot in the space for you to use. A very good choice indeed.

 

There has been controversty on the 787, see YouTube on where they have been built vs quality of the build.

 

The best available LAX - LHR premium economy is Air New Zealand their seats are unbelievable but they only do that route from your selection.

 

Regards John

[wowzz]

I have flown BA on the giant A380 premium economy. I pre-selected seats and got a pair by the windon upstairs. These were excellent; the headroom is lower than normal but the elbow room at the actual window was vastly increased due to the outward curve of the wall coming down and theres a cupboard slot in the space for you to use. A very good choice indeed.

 

There has been controversty on the 787, see YouTube on where they have been built vs quality of the build.

 

The best available LAX - LHR premium economy is Air New Zealand their seats are unbelievable but they only do that route from your selection.

 

Regards John

Thanks John - If only ANZ flew to BOS from LHR I would be happy. Looks like BA might be the best choice, and I won't have to worry about the batteries!

[azcruiser64]

Just be aware that if you don't have a F/F status on BA you will have to pay to select your seats or wait until 24 hours before your departure to select seats for free. We are lowly "blue" F/F status on BA with around 23K miles each so if we want to select seats now for our flights next month it will cost $113 per person to select seats on a JFK-LHR leg and $33 per person for the LHR-ZHR leg. We're booked in Business class and still have to pay. The same applies for the return trip. It would cost a total of $584 to select my wife and my seats round trip. And in business class no less, BA you have to be kidding. I'll think twice about ever flying BA again.

[Gardyloo]

Just be aware that if you don't have a F/F status on BA you will have to pay to select your seats or wait until 24 hours before your departure to select seats for free. We are lowly "blue" F/F status on BA with around 23K miles each so if we want to select seats now for our flights next month it will cost $113 per person to select seats on a JFK-LHR leg and $33 per person for the LHR-ZHR leg. We're booked in Business class and still have to pay. The same applies for the return trip. It would cost a total of $584 to select my wife and my seats round trip. And in business class no less, BA you have to be kidding. I'll think twice about ever flying BA again.

Virgin Atlantic has long since copied BA's extortionate practice regarding pre-flight seat selection in coach, but not (thankfully) for premium economy or "upper" (business) class.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Gardyloo

[Globaliser]

I'm tending towards the BA option, but before booking I'm hoping that some of the experts out there will give me some guidance.

Two questions:-

• Are you based in or near London?
• When is your cruise?

Unlike most specific flight queries here, this may be one that I can actually help with in some detail.

[Globaliser]

And in business class no less, BA you have to be kidding. I'll think twice about ever flying BA again.

Although the very same policy is one of the things that makes me favour BA - I usually get a better choice of seats than on other airlines. You might have an option to fly BA once in a blue moon, but BA usually gets 6-12 long-haul trips a year from me.

 

For those who scoff, BA has done some work on this. It's fully aware that some passengers might be put off flying BA by these seat pre-allocation charges. However, they are by definition infrequent BA passengers. The loss of business from these passengers is outweighed by the attraction of this policy to BA's regular repeat customers.

[wowzz]

Two questions:-

• Are you based in or near London?
• When is your cruise?

Unlike most specific flight queries here, this may be one that I can actually help with in some detail.

 

Thanks for your offer.

Based near Lincoln, but relatives living near London, so plan to stay with them immediately prior to leaving.

Plan is to fly to Boston on April 18th [next year] - have booked a nice townhouse through Airbnb. Then on Friday April 22nd fly to Fort Lauderdale, to pick up our cruise the following day.

We disembark in Los Angeles on Sunday May 8th, and am planning to return to the UK on May 11th after staying in Santa Monica for a couple of days..

Used to fly a lot with BA in my working days, but unfortunately used up all my 'miles' many years ago. Was scarred for life by various TA flights on assorted US airlines when working [surly service, paying for drinks!!!] so would prefer to avoid them, and in any case, none as far as I know, offer PE.

Looking forward to your suggestions.

[Mary Ellen]

Was scarred for life by various TA flights on assorted US airlines when working [surly service, paying for drinks!!!] so would prefer to avoid them, and in any case, none as far as I know, offer PE.

Looking forward to your suggestions.

 

Actually most of the US airlines offer PE. US Air is the only one that comes to mind that hasn't had PE seats on flights we've considered.

 

For what it's worth, we flew BA from DEN-LHR business class once. Never again. Worst business flight we've ever had. The next time we needed to go to London, rather than the BA nonstop, we connected at IAH for a UA 787, PE seats. We vastly preferred that to the BA business. It says something that we'd rather connect than take a BA nonstop. ;)

[Gardyloo]

Actually most of the US airlines offer PE. US Air is the only one that comes to mind that hasn't had PE seats on flights we've considered.

No they don't, they offer something called "Economy Plus," or "Main Cabin Extra" which is NOT a premium economy product, it's just a regular economy seat with a couple inches more legroom. Premium economy on overseas carriers is an entirely different cabin, seat, and level of service.

[FlyerTalker]

Actually most of the US airlines offer PE. US Air is the only one that comes to mind that hasn't had PE seats on flights we've considered.

NO NO NO.

 

PE (Premium Economy) is NOT what you will find on AA/DL/UA. What AA/DL/UA are providing are standard coach seats with additional legroom/recline. This is NOT premium economy, which has different seating and often inflight service.

 

Delta Comfort, Main Cabin Extra and Economy+ are NOT PE, which you can find on European and Asian carriers.

 

Please don't post incorrect information.

[wowzz]

Shows again that US airlines are not up to speed with current travel preferences.

[Mary Ellen]

I apologize. And bless your heart for the not so gentle rebuke. :rolleyes:

NO NO NO.

 

PE (Premium Economy) is NOT what you will find on AA/DL/UA. What AA/DL/UA are providing are standard coach seats with additional legroom/recline. This is NOT premium economy, which has different seating and often inflight service.

 

Delta Comfort, Main Cabin Extra and Economy+ are NOT PE, which you can find on European and Asian carriers.

 

Please don't post incorrect information.

[FlyerTalker]

I apologize. And bless your heart for the not so gentle rebuke.

Facts are facts. If you have them, post. If you don't know the facts, keep the fingers from the keyboard. And if you're not sure, then say so.

 

It's actually quite simple. And bless your heart as well.

[wowzz]

Can I just interject and say that the problem is that the concept of proper PE is not understood by most Americans, hence the confusion.

So, BA or Virgin or anyone else

[john watson]

Mary Ellen has simply posted information which she feels is correct. Everybody on the forum posts information which they feel is correct and there is nothing inappropriate about this. Additional postings which follow will lead any initial enquirer to form an opinion which is most likely to be accurate.

 

The simple misunderstanding here is that Premium Economy; rarely offered and not to be confused with "extra legroom" style seats, is a class of travel which includes extra legroom but a raft of additional perks such as better menu etc.

 

There are some who you might think ought to understand Premium Economy but do not; Air New Zealand for example. Extra leg room? You get a seat the size of Jupiter and they come in pairs to suit couples. Towards the centre line of the aircraft they call inner space and towards the window they call outer space. I like to use additional sources of information like http://www.seatguru.com for plans and http://www.planespotters.net for fleet data, such as ages of aircraft and what makes and models they fly and of course each airlines website information.

 

Regards John

Edited July 26, 2015 by john watson

[Zach1213]

I fly somewhat often on the BA 744 aircraft, and try to avoid them as much as possible. I find them to be, generally, old and beat up, especially in the Y and Y+ sections. So...I for one would avoid that, but this is just my experience and opinion.

[Globaliser]

For what it's worth, we flew BA from DEN-LHR business class once. Never again. Worst business flight we've ever had. The next time we needed to go to London, rather than the BA nonstop, we connected at IAH for a UA 787, PE seats. We vastly preferred that to the BA business. It says something that we'd rather connect than take a BA nonstop.

You'd rather take United economy than BA business?

 

I think that certainly says something, but probably not what you think. It would surely be some type of insanity that prefers an economy seat - even with a few extra inches of pitch - to a lie-flat bed on an overnight flight, however bad the service may be on the latter.

[Globaliser]

Based near Lincoln, but relatives living near London, so plan to stay with them immediately prior to leaving.

Plan is to fly to Boston on April 18th [next year] - have booked a nice townhouse through Airbnb. Then on Friday April 22nd fly to Fort Lauderdale, to pick up our cruise the following day.

We disembark in Los Angeles on Sunday May 8th, and am planning to return to the UK on May 11th after staying in Santa Monica for a couple of days.

OK, the first thing is that if you're prepared to take a small gamble (particularly if you might have a day or two of flexibility in the long-haul flying days), then there's no necessity to rush into buying anything now. Towards the end of August, there should be a BA sale. It will be worth having a look then to see whether the travel dates extend as far forward as April. (The outbound date is the only really important date, as that fixes the season and hence the fare structure for both halves of the trip.)

 

That is what I would be doing in your shoes, but this involves a bit of risk as availability in the lowest WT+ booking class (T class) is middling at the moment for the LHR-BOS sector around your travel date. If the flights were truly wide open, I'd be recommending this more strongly.

 

If you do want to book now, there are some sale fares in force at the moment. These have to be ticketed by 11 August. However, my guess is that a sale at the end of August is likely to bring lower fares than these.

 

The second piece of advice is to try pricing it with and without the BOS-Florida sector. You may find that it's cheaper with that sector included. However, that may mean flying BOS-MIA rather than BOS-FLL. You'll need to look for the rules about paying baggage fees; if you have an international ticket that covers LHR-BOS, BOS-MIA and LAX-LHR, I don't know whether that automatically means that you don't have to pay baggage fees to AA on the BOS-MIA sector.

 

The third thing to think about is this: You may find BA fares that are much cheaper if you start in (say) Amsterdam, Bergen or Stavanger. The trick is to fly from London to (say) Bergen and fly straight back to London on the same aircraft. You also have to do the same thing at the end of the trip. There are some (perfectly soluble) complications with bags etc, but you could either save some money or find yourself being able to buy a ticket in the next cabin up.

 

For example, doing LHR-BOS//LAX-LHR in WT+ on your travel dates starts from about £1167 at the moment. If you start in BGO, it's about £917 (with the short haul flights in economy). But perhaps more interesting, you could do the trip in business class for about £1464. (Doing business class starting in London would be about £3261.) Of course, you do need to add in the cost of the extra ticket to/from BGO (from just over £100).

 

And these are all with current fares. It can be even cheaper when there's a sale on in those markets (not necessarily at the same time as in the UK). The reason for picking those three cities is that their airports are probably the best for doing an immediate return to London on the same aircraft, which is one of the least risky ways of starting or finishing one of these trips.

 

Virgin's PE fares are significantly higher than BA's at the moment, but I don't know what will happen when the UK sale starts. VS also has the disadvantage that as far as I can see you cannot easily combine the BOS-Florida sector into the same ticket.

[wowzz]

Globaliser - many thanks, I really appreciate your input.

The Bergen idea looks interesting, but the turn-round is only 50 minutes. Is it possible to collect luggage, check-in, and pass through security in that time? I could of course travel the day before, but the cost of the extra hotel would seem to off-set potential savings.

I looked at AMS as another option, but there appeared to be no real cost savings using this routing.

At the moment I am tending towards using BA, mainly due to the fact that the Virgin PE seats on the 787 have been criticized on various forums for lack of comfort, and also because of the flight schedules. I'll see if there are any offers available at the end of August, and then bite the bullet and book, so as to make sure we get our preferred flight time.

With regard to the BOS-FLL leg, I will probably use JetBlue, who have a direct mid-morning flight to FLL, thus avoiding the misery that is MIA!

Thank you again for your input.

[Globaliser]

The Bergen idea looks interesting, but the turn-round is only 50 minutes. Is it possible to collect luggage, check-in, and pass through security in that time? I could of course travel the day before, but the cost of the extra hotel would seem to off-set potential savings.

No, that isn't possible - hence my mention of this complication. You have to be able to get off the aircraft at Bergen, walk into the terminal building and be ready to board the same aircraft again immediately.

 

One common way of dealing with this that avoids staying the night at the starting point is this: Go to Heathrow and put your luggage in the left luggage facility. Fly to Bergen and back. Exit to landside, collect your luggage and then check-in for the long-haul flight.

 

An alternative is to do the Heathrow-Bergen-Heathrow shuffle the night before your long-haul flight, but of course that involves two trips to Heathrow on successive days. (We usually start and end these trips by flying London City-Amsterdam-London City, as London City is very easy for us to get to.)

 

I agree that the current cost saving for doing this in WT+ is small. Big savings tend to come with business class fares - particularly when they end up being close to the cost of WT+ starting in Heathrow. In fact, later this year we are doing a trip starting in Amsterdam for which we're paying £1,600 to fly the whole trip in business class, when a WT+ ticket to the same destination starting in London would have cost over £2,000.

With regard to the BOS-FLL leg, I will probably use JetBlue, who have a direct mid-morning flight to FLL, thus avoiding the misery that is MIA!

There must be limited misery to being a domestic arrival at MIA, which is what you would be if you flew AA BOS-MIA.

 

So I still think it'll be worth looking at both options, particularly if the saving by using AA to MIA (taking into account whatever baggage fees you might have to pay on both airlines) would pay for a decent private transfer to Fort Lauderdale.

[Globaliser]

BTW, as a PS: Be aware that another PPlace is full of BA-haters. It's not a perfect airline, by any means, but they don't half moan about it over there.

[Gardyloo]

There must be limited misery to being a domestic arrival at MIA, which is what you would be if you flew AA BOS-MIA.

Actually, since AA revamped its MIA operation, I find it quite easy. It's BOS that gives me a pain on international - to - domestic connections, but if you're staying over, no big.

[wowzz]

BTW, as a PS: Be aware that another PPlace is full of BA-haters. It's not a perfect airline, by any means, but they don't half moan about it over there.

 

Correct - I believe there are quite a number of posters over there who have a very clear personal agenda, and I just ignore them.

I am by no means a frequent flyer, especially now I no longer have to fly for business, but I have notched up over 50 TA trips with BA, plus assorted European and Far East flights. Whilst some of the flights have undoubtedly been better than others, I have never experienced a truly awful flight.

Thanks for your tips on booking a flight from a non-UK point of origin.

Going back to one of your earlier replies - how were you able to see WT+ availability figures for mid April?

[Globaliser]

Going back to one of your earlier replies - how were you able to see WT+ availability figures for mid April?

ExpertFlyer - one of the best value hundred dollars I spend every year in relation to travel.