Early Del Rio Legacy vs the Sheehan Legacy

[maywell]

One way is to create very different trips that do not repeat. That works on Oceania and Regent but how on NCL? Ships do the same trips week after week. The new ships are too big to do much else. Just think of a world cruise on the breakaway, 180 days, you could not pay me to go.

 

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Actually, I can do Breakaway for the 180 days because it not going to be so crowded due to not too many families boarding for that long of a trip. That and it looks compact but the layout is actually spread out especially on the Waterfront and decks where the Grill / Spice H2O / Buffet are located.

 

They already made scarcity in some markets by switching ships out and moving them to different locations i.e. switching Epic for the Spirit, sending the Star to Asia / Australia, using the Jewel for Panama Canal, Sun for South America, then there's the Pearl getting charter off somewhere. Regarding the new ships - I will not be shocked if the Bliss and/or the other 2 new ones plus a Jewel-class ship(s) went to Asia / Australia if the Star is successful out there.

[weelv2cruise]

Who cares whether Sheehan or Del Rio are "better" or "worse" than the other. That seems like utter red herring material. Sheehan's gone. Whether he was good or bad, or better or worse, than the current bunch running NCL is irrelevant.

 

What matters is what is happening RIGHT NOW. And right now it's pretty clear that NCL is changing and not for the better. That it changed before (if it was for the worse -- I don't know) is even more of an indictment of the current bunch -- they should have been fixing the mess that Sheehan (supposedly) made and instead they've doubled down with the cuts and price hikes.

 

Well said and Amen! Change is always hard for those who can walk the change down the road to the eventual conclusion. Even while the conclusion seems to be elusive. Stocks have nothing to do with quality of service--it has to do with hedge fund managers willing to gamble on an imaginary outcome and what a diversified portfolio manager can put together. It's a crap-shoot but it doesn't do a dang thing for services onboard. So he's set it up to play one cruise line against the other IMHO to see which ones makes the most money. Hedging bets--one covers the other with a wing and a prayer. When that doesn't work--all bets are off to quality of service and pricing. He thinks we are a captive audience. And when you look at the cruise industry --we are.

[fshagan]

Sounds like a strategy of deceptive yield management to create urgency. Make it look like there are only one or two cabins available at a certain yield/promotion when in fact there are many. Basically trick people into booking right away thinking they are getting the last cabin on a great promo. Buyer beware!

 

I would read the transcript of the entire call; it is explained fully. It's not a sneaky ploy to trick people. This line was in reference to a very specific marketing strategy that is explained. Here's the gist of it:

 

NCL will be adding more varied itineraries, including some with longer sailings, to places they have not sailed before, in Asia, Australia and South America. They will add new ports. These new itineraries will be limited, so it gives a feeling of scarcity. That will allow NCL to fill the ship with people willing to pay a bit more to go to ports in Australia and New Zealand rather then the eastern or western Caribbean for the 10th time where they stay on the boat because Nassau is so old hat. These passengers will be happy because instead of $4,000 pp for an inside cabin on Oceania, they will be paying mass market line rates for these great new ports.

 

If you have ever drooled over an Oceania catalog because of the "one off" itineraries you can appreciate this marketing strategy. Princess already does this with a more varied itinerary, so I think it is very, very smart.

 

And it's not all or nothing; they will still do the Caribbean runs but will move the least profitable ships to the new itineraries. Rather than assigning the short three and four day itineraries that people love to the oldest ship in the fleet, the Epic will do them out of Port Canaveral. What a great opportunity to combine a land vacation at WDW with a short cruise that won't cost an arm and a leg.

 

So prices will go up, but the product will also improve. There will still be deals on the old itineraries if you are satisfied just being on a boat.

[Travelcat2]

Have you been on a Norwegian Cruise since the changes have been made? Why cancel a cruise when in reality you don't know if the changes are going to bug you as much while you're on board? I see everybody who has a beef with the new changes should try a Norwegian cruise and see how you feel? If you still don't like it then stop cruising Norwegian

 

Hi motleyfan: Haven't checked this board in a while and find the same people saying the same things and still agree with you! Those posters who try to suggest that FDR had anything to do with Renaissance going out of business does not have a clue what really happened (specifically the effect of "9/11") I truly wish that the naysayers would simply go to another cruise line and see if it meets their expectations instead of spending all of their time complaining!

 

FDR has been very successful with Oceania and Regent If he were no longer CEO, a lot of loyal passengers would leave (and remember ....... the fare to sail on Regent, for instance, is upwards of $1,000/day. It would take a lot of NCL passengers to leave to equal the impact that losing Regent passengers would bring.)

 

While I understand that change is difficult, it is necessary sometimes. motleyfan -- keep doing what you're doing!!!!:)

[eroller]

I would read the transcript of the entire call; it is explained fully. It's not a sneaky ploy to trick people. This line was in reference to a very specific marketing strategy that is explained. Here's the gist of it:

 

NCL will be adding more varied itineraries, including some with longer sailings, to places they have not sailed before, in Asia, Australia and South America. They will add new ports. These new itineraries will be limited, so it gives a feeling of scarcity. That will allow NCL to fill the ship with people willing to pay a bit more to go to ports in Australia and New Zealand rather then the eastern or western Caribbean for the 10th time where they stay on the boat because Nassau is so old hat. These passengers will be happy because instead of $4,000 pp for an inside cabin on Oceania, they will be paying mass market line rates for these great new ports.

 

If you have ever drooled over an Oceania catalog because of the "one off" itineraries you can appreciate this marketing strategy. Princess already does this with a more varied itinerary, so I think it is very, very smart.

 

And it's not all or nothing; they will still do the Caribbean runs but will move the least profitable ships to the new itineraries. Rather than assigning the short three and four day itineraries that people love to the oldest ship in the fleet, the Epic will do them out of Port Canaveral. What a great opportunity to combine a land vacation at WDW with a short cruise that won't cost an arm and a leg.

 

So prices will go up, but the product will also improve. There will still be deals on the old itineraries if you are satisfied just being on a boat.

 

Thanks for explaining this. Much appreciated. I think one-off itineraries are great and if NCL has more of them then more opportunity to cruise off the beaten path so to speak.

[eroller]

I truly wish that the naysayers would simply go to another cruise line and see if it meets their expectations instead of spending all of their time complaining!

 

 

 

Great advice from someone that has never even sailed on NCL. Go back to whatever you came from and quit wasting your time here trying to stir the pot.

 

At least the complainers here have a basis to do so … they have actually sailed on an NCL cruise.

 

As for Del Rio having no involvement in the demise of Renaissance … what are you smoking? He was a senior executive there from 1993 to 2001. The line went out of business soon after he left in 2001. He was part of the management team at Renaissance almost from its inception until almost the very end.

Edited August 6, 2015 by eroller

[Hendricks Clan]

Hi motleyfan: Haven't checked this board in a while and find the same people saying the same things and still agree with you! Those posters who try to suggest that FDR had anything to do with Renaissance going out of business does not have a clue what really happened (specifically the effect of "9/11") I truly wish that the naysayers would simply go to another cruise line and see if it meets their expectations instead of spending all of their time complaining!

 

FDR has been very successful with Oceania and Regent If he were no longer CEO, a lot of loyal passengers would leave (and remember ....... the fare to sail on Regent, for instance, is upwards of $1,000/day. It would take a lot of NCL passengers to leave to equal the impact that losing Regent passengers would bring.)

 

While I understand that change is difficult, it is necessary sometimes. motleyfan -- keep doing what you're doing!!!!:)

 

Coming from someone who has never stepped foot on an NCL vessel. So let me get this straight. As part of the senior management team, Del Rio had no part whatsoever in cutting out travel agent bookings, he had no part whatsoever in over $1 billion worth of debt that Renaissance had accumulated before 9/11, and Del Rio had nothing to do with the fact that Oceania was unprofitable and in debt and thus sold out for a much needed cash infusion by Apollo?

 

To suggest that if the loyal passengers of Regent/Oceania would affect the bottom line more than NCL, thats absurd. While I haven't looked into the financials to see, I'm 99.9% certain NCL is the most profitable and the bread winner for the shareholders and affects the bottom line more than Regent/Oceania.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Hendricks Clan

[Hendricks Clan]

Thanks for explaining this. Much appreciated. I think one-off itineraries are great and if NCL has more of them then more opportunity to cruise off the beaten path so to speak.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see it that way. Del Rio said himself, that they were taking the least profitable ships and redeploying them. What also happens is that it takes capacity away from other destinations, thus causing an increase in the fare...demand with less availability gives you "scarcity."

 

Don't think for a second, that these new Asia and Australia cruises will be affordable. Look at RCCL. They get roughly 60-75% higher cruise fares on those sailings compared to any other itinerary they offer.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Hendricks Clan

[Cruise4Real]

One would hope these guys would know their business better than me. :)

 

But I have to think there's a reason that many cruises are 7 days long, and generally start/end on the weekends. That's because an awful lot of the working stiffs who must make up the bulk of cruisers on NCLH's "contemporary" line, NCL, you know, work. And for most of them workers, their week is M-F, with weekends off. So if you're going on a 7 day cruise you can actually do that with just five days off from work -- you get to use the weekend on either end for travel, etc. Americans get what, the least amount of paid time off of any workers in the world? (Other than Thai fishing slaves, I guess.)

 

You start making your cruises longer than 7 days and you run into situations where you can no longer do your vacay with just five days off from work. If the cruise starts on Tuesday and ends on Thursday, toss in travel to get to the port and you can come close to using 2 weeks of paid time in order to do your 9 day cruise. You only get to use a single weekend to help avoid squandering your precious time off.

 

God bless 'em. They have two other lines that cater to affluent older cruisers who don't have to worry about these issues as much as the stiffs on NCL. Del Rio started off the conference call saying that they have three lines that aren't competing with each other, and that's great! And then precedes to outline a plan where they can start competing with each other. Brilliant!

[Jane Don]

God bless 'em. They have two other lines that cater to affluent older cruisers who don't have to worry about these issues as much as the stiffs on NCL. Del Rio started off the conference call saying that they have three lines that aren't competing with each other, and that's great! And then precedes to outline a plan where they can start competing with each other. Brilliant!

 

A couple of weeks ago someone suggested FDR was trying make NCL more like Regent and Oceania. I laughed and said that is silly. Why would they want to compete with themselves?

 

Now, as more changes are happening and 'scarcity' is the goal I realize I was wrong. NCL is not aiming to compete with Carnival. I guess FDR likes the elevated market position enough to put all his eggs in that basket even though there is a gap at the bottom.

 

I am looking into Carnival and MSC for next year because unless NCL prices stay competitive, and they have risen 30% in the past quarter, I will not sail with them after my current booking.

[luvtheships]

I like ncl....not terribly find of ccl...and find rccl too pricey

 

But guess what? I am now looking seriously at those lines as well as MSC plus looking forward to eventually booking celebrity.

 

Go figure.

 

 

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Edited August 6, 2015 by luvtheships

[NLH Arizona]

I like ncl....not terribly find of ccl...and find rccl too pricey

 

But guess what? I am now looking seriously at those lines as well as MSC plus looking forward to eventually booking celebrity.

 

Go figure.

 

 

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You'll love Celebrity, but be aware that they just increased their DSC, upped their 15% gratuity to bar servers to 18%, some of their specialty dining venues costs more than those on NCL, raised their drink prices and they recently raised their beverage package costs. All this, plus many loyal Celebrity cruisers are saying that the quality of the food in the MDR is down and the overall service is not what it use to be.

 

I have 2 Celebrity cruises booked and none of the above changes has any issues for me and I still think the MDR food is great and have always gotten great service.

Edited August 6, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[swedish weave]

Hi motleyfan: Haven't checked this board in a while and find the same people saying the same things and still agree with you! Those posters who try to suggest that FDR had anything to do with Renaissance going out of business does not have a clue what really happened (specifically the effect of "9/11") I truly wish that the naysayers would simply go to another cruise line and see if it meets their expectations instead of spending all of their time complaining!

 

FDR has been very successful with Oceania and Regent If he were no longer CEO, a lot of loyal passengers would leave (and remember ....... the fare to sail on Regent, for instance, is upwards of $1,000/day. It would take a lot of NCL passengers to leave to equal the impact that losing Regent passengers would bring.)

 

While I understand that change is difficult, it is necessary sometimes. motleyfan -- keep doing what you're doing!!!!:)

 

How do you rate success ?? Amassing huge debt does not seem like the road to success.

 

If the two cruise lines Del Rio started were so successful, why did he sell them and why were they so far in debt.

 

I have posted figures and data that I believe to be true, and if you see anything that is incorrect, I would appreciate the opportunity to check it and make any corrections.

[sparks1093]

A couple of weeks ago someone suggested FDR was trying make NCL more like Regent and Oceania. I laughed and said that is silly. Why would they want to compete with themselves?

 

Now, as more changes are happening and 'scarcity' is the goal I realize I was wrong. NCL is not aiming to compete with Carnival. I guess FDR likes the elevated market position enough to put all his eggs in that basket even though there is a gap at the bottom.

 

I am looking into Carnival and MSC for next year because unless NCL prices stay competitive, and they have risen 30% in the past quarter, I will not sail with them after my current booking.

 

That might have been me that said that and the only reason that I did was becasue it's what Del Rio had said or what analysts have discerned that was Del Rio's goal. I don't think the ideas is to have the three lines compete but for NCL to be the gateway to the other two lines. Del Rio has stated that he does not consider CCL to be a competitor of NCL.

[eroller]

That might have been me that said that and the only reason that I did was becasue it's what Del Rio had said or what analysts have discerned that was Del Rio's goal. I don't think the ideas is to have the three lines compete but for NCL to be the gateway to the other two lines. Del Rio has stated that he does not consider CCL to be a competitor of NCL.

 

 

He is a little out of touch or has delusions of grandeur. Carnival is very much a competitor of NCL, probably more than any other line. Same demographic and price point. Contemporary mass-market. Sorry but raising prices and adding fees doesn't suddenly make you something you're not. The product actually has to change and evolve for the better if NCL wants to be on par with the better quality lines. So far that hasn't happened.

[sparks1093]

He is a little out of touch or has delusions of grandeur.

 

Or both.:)

[boopsahoy]

He is a little out of touch or has delusions of grandeur. Carnival is very much a competitor of NCL, probably more than any other line. Same demographic and price point. Contemporary mass-market. Sorry but raising prices and adding fees doesn't suddenly make you something you're not. The product actually has to change and evolve for the better if NCL wants to be on par with the better quality lines. So far that hasn't happened.

 

He doesn't think CCL is a competitor? What koolaid is he drinking!

[swedish weave]

He is a little out of touch or has delusions of grandeur. Carnival is very much a competitor of NCL, probably more than any other line. Same demographic and price point. Contemporary mass-market. Sorry but raising prices and adding fees doesn't suddenly make you something you're not. The product actually has to change and evolve for the better if NCL wants to be on par with the better quality lines. So far that hasn't happened.

 

I see the biggest discrepancy between Carnival and NCL as their debt management. Carnival has a debt ratio of abut a third of their market value while NCL debt is nearly double their market value

 

It appears that Del Rio is trying to boost the revenue numbers with the giveaways and subsequently trying to boost the stock price in order to diminish the debt equity ratio somewhat. That may not be the case, but at any rate, if Carnival wants to play hardball, they could make it very hard for NCL to stay in the field with them. Maybe Del Rio realizes that and is trying to make NCL appeal to a different segment of the market. That leaves us long time NCL cruisers with a choice to make.

[Jane Don]

That might have been me that said that and the only reason that I did was becasue it's what Del Rio had said or what analysts have discerned that was Del Rio's goal. I don't think the ideas is to have the three lines compete but for NCL to be the gateway to the other two lines. Del Rio has stated that he does not consider CCL to be a competitor of NCL.

 

He might not, but I do. I think many others do as well. From the standpoint of price, service and amenities, they look pretty similar.

[swedish weave]

One would hope these guys would know their business better than me. :)

 

But I have to think there's a reason that many cruises are 7 days long, and generally start/end on the weekends. That's because an awful lot of the working stiffs who must make up the bulk of cruisers on NCLH's "contemporary" line, NCL, you know, work. And for most of them workers, their week is M-F, with weekends off. So if you're going on a 7 day cruise you can actually do that with just five days off from work -- you get to use the weekend on either end for travel, etc. Americans get what, the least amount of paid time off of any workers in the world? (Other than Thai fishing slaves, I guess.)

 

You start making your cruises longer than 7 days and you run into situations where you can no longer do your vacay with just five days off from work. If the cruise starts on Tuesday and ends on Thursday, toss in travel to get to the port and you can come close to using 2 weeks of paid time in order to do your 9 day cruise. You only get to use a single weekend to help avoid squandering your precious time off.

 

God bless 'em. They have two other lines that cater to affluent older cruisers who don't have to worry about these issues as much as the stiffs on NCL. Del Rio started off the conference call saying that they have three lines that aren't competing with each other, and that's great! And then precedes to outline a plan where they can start competing with each other. Brilliant!

 

NCL has made a foray into the varied itinerary market with longer cruises when they had Orient Lines. That was a great deal for us when we sailed on the Marco Polo, but it also proved to be a loser for the cruise line and they left that part of the market. Getting back into that field may or may not be profitable for NCL and the other two lines. So far, the other two haven't shown much good success in their revenue area.

[boopsahoy]

He might not, but I do. I think many others do as well. From the standpoint of price, service and amenities, they look pretty similar.

 

I had my first Carnival cruise last year and 1 this year with my husband. He thought it was in all ways as good as NCL except he thought the NCL steakhouse was much better.

[legion3]

He doesn't think CCL is a competitor? What koolaid is he drinking!

 

Neither does MotleyFan so there must be something to it. :cool:

[boopsahoy]

He might not, but I do. I think many others do as well. From the standpoint of price, service and amenities, they look pretty similar.

 

Exactly-I am looking for the same price point with the same amenities-will I miss the suite life on NCL? Yes, but I will end up spending even less on my cruise, because a suite without perks does nothing for us.

 

Will I try a more expensive line? Probably not, we are getting ready to retire so money is tighter than normal and when we retire it will be even tighter but we will want more cruises every year.

 

If NCL thinks being more exclusive (ie. expensive)will get them more passengers they are crazy.

[halos]

 

I really enjoyed the Sheehan brand of Freestyle cruising and it will be missed.

 

I am mourning the loss of him more and more with each change.

[sparks1093]

He doesn't think CCL is a competitor? What koolaid is he drinking!

 

He is the CEO, he mixes the koolaid for others to drink:cool:.

 

He might not, but I do. I think many others do as well. From the standpoint of price, service and amenities, they look pretty similar.

 

Yep.