Bit of a review of Viking's Imprerial Jewels of China, Beijing-Shanghai, 10/23/15

[Linanbob2]

My small way of trying to give back to the forum, since I took away so much good info from here.

 

Viking's Style in China

 

The interesting thing Viking does in China (don't know if their Europe river cruises are the same), is combine the concepts of the land tour with the river cruise.

 

There are seven or eight groups of about 35 each assigned to a bus with a Viking tour escort. Each group travels together for the entire trip for all the side-tours, airport transfers (except arrival and departure), and the assigned escort leads and works the logistics for the entire trip. The escorts share responsibilities for some of the optional side-trips, and in taking care of those not taking the optionals. I think it works out well - you have more of an opportunity to get to know people.

 

Viking Air

 

This was Viking's only real hiccup in the whole process. We wanted to be sure of sensible connections, and I had in interest in the 787, so we chose to pick our own flights using Viking Air. We got what we wanted (American Airlines nonstops out of Dallas for the China legs).

 

I now wanted to buy the Economy Plus upgrades for the extra leg room (I'm 6'3"), and the airlines won't let you do that at the time of reservation. You need to get the flights reserved and ticketed, and go online and do it yourself. Problem: The American website wouldn't permit me to access the reservation details. Called American to see what the problem was, and it turned out Viking Air made the reservation but (apparently) didn't pay American, so they wouldn't ticket the itinerary. Viking Air, of course, hit my credit card promptly. It took a few calls to the travel agent and some three-way calls with Viking Air to get them to do whatever magic was required to have American actually issue the tickets.

 

(We had some issues with American later that took some work to straighten out, but I'm skipping that because this isn't "Airline Critic".)

 

In the end, we got what we wanted - so all's well that ends well.

 

 

Itinerary and Travel

 

The itinerary in the book was followed (mostly) to the letter.

 

 

Beijing

 

Arrived Beijing a day early for some extra time-change accomodation, and to account for potential airline problems. Viking transfer people were there and fairly easily found.

 

Tienamen Square was interesting to me for the historical events. There was a fairly long line waiting to get into Mao's tomb. The Forbidden City is much more interesting if you understand its history first.

 

The Great Wall was a fine thing to see, but do be prepared for a mob scene - mostly of (presumably) Chinese people. Lots of people. One rides a ski-gondola type lift from the bottom tourist center (usual thing with junk shops and snack-type food), to the station up on the wall. Once there you can go anywhere you like on this section of the wall.

 

(The wall is a problem if you have mobility difficulties. We had one older lady in our group who had walking difficulties who made the trip up the gondola and walked from the station on the wall to a location on the wall where she sat and waited for her son and wife to return. She didn't see much, but she made it. Wheelchairs are effectively impossible there.)

 

The visit to the hutongs was a nice change from the mob scenes everywhere. As usual with those kinds of things, you've no way to know how "authentic" the experience is.

 

From the hutongs, it was straight to the airport for the flight to Xian.

 

We didn't do any of the Beijing optionals. Don't see what the big deal is about a Peking Duck dinner, and all the opera reviews were negative. (Our tour escort kind of talked down the opera as well.)

 

 

Xian

 

The only thing you're doing in Xian is seeing the Warriors. Interesting enough to do one time.

 

We did not do the Tang Dynasty Dinner and Show. Reviews from some in our group who did were OK.

 

Next morning was the flight to Chongqing.

 

 

Chongqing

 

It was straight from the airport to the "bonus" stop to see the pandas. The escort sort of warned us not to broadcast the fact, as not every group would have that chance due to timing of flights. (Don't know if the warning was serious or somewhat in jest.)

 

Then it was straight to the port to board the ship.

 

The Yangtze Cruise

 

Onboard Experience Overall

 

Boarding the ship was a nothingburger. I was reading all sorts of things here about carrying baggage long distances to the ship over an unstable gangway, but you only have your hand carry stuff, it wasn't that far a walk, and the gangway was fine.

 

The ship is physically very manageable. There are elevators. The staff on the ship is mostly young (20-something) Chinese. Their English is not fantastic, but they manage. (Their English is probably better than your Chinese.) The cabins are typical Caribbean cruise ship size.

 

Food onboard was mostly what I expected. Not the best cruise food I've ever had but perfectly acceptable and tasty, with an adequate number of choices.

 

The included wine was low-end but perfectly acceptable. (Lois the bar supervisor was pouring for our table, and boy did she keep it coming.)

 

Water on the ship is not drinkable. Bottled is supplied, if you need more, just call and they'll deliver some.

 

The room climate controls are centrally controlled. There's a thermostat on the wall, but it's purely decorative other than for fan control. It was never hot during our stay, and was overcast several days on board, and got a touch chilly in the room.

 

The Cruise and The Stops

Overall the Yangtze is not the most scenic river out there. Above the dam, it reminded me of Norwegian fjords because of how the valley was flooded.

 

Below the dam, reminded me of the Mississippi.

 

Shibaozhai Pagoda: This was an OK stop. One can climb the Pagoda, we passed. (I have a foot issue that was fine for me, but didn't want to push it.)

 

Lesser Three Gorges sightseeing: This is on smaller (~22 passenger) boats. This was one of the highlights for me, I enjoyed this.

 

Three Gorges Dam tour: This sort of thing always interests me, so I enjoyed this stop. Only problem is you can't get as close to the dam and locks as you can in the states. The Chinese treat it as a military site. Given the disaster a dam failure would be, I suppose I can't blame them.

 

Jingzhou and the school visit: We passed. Those who went told us it was pretty much exactly what we suspected it would be.

 

Wuhan museum: The museum part was (to me) a bit of a yawn. I did enjoy the bell and traditional instrument performance.

 

Disembarking the ship was a breeze.

 

Shanghai

 

I was getting a nasty cold by now, so I was laying low. The dinner before the acrobat show was a bit of a disappointment (perhaps I was tiring of the "Lazy Susan" chinese dinners) and was rushed. The acrobat show was entertaining.

 

 

General Topics

 

Money

 

While waiting for others in the Beijing airport, took the opportunity to go a bank ATM on the arrivals level to get some cash. We took a preload-style "International Debit" card our credit union offers - it's a chip-and-pin card which is effectively required outside the US.

 

Personally, I don't think there's a better or safer option than ATMs using preload debit cards for cash abroad - no need to carry lots of cash to change, and the preload card provides a hard upper limit on what you can lose in the worst-case scenario.

 

We preloaded the card with $1000 before leaving. In Beijing the machine had an option for English, and got 2000 Yuan with no hassle at all. We did each take a credit card (from different accounts) in case of an emergency or a decision to make a larger purchase.

 

Despite having read some warnings that USD wouldn't be as useful as they usually are abroad (weird things like 'no small bills' and 'need to be newer bills'), it seemed that nearly anyone would take USD. In any case, my preference is credit cards and local cash where necessary/practical.

 

Baggage Handling

 

As you'd expect, we handed them over to the transfer bus driver after clearing customs at the airport in Beijing, and we didn't have to touch it again until we collected it at the airport in Shanghai to check 'em in for the flight home. The tour escort assures all the pieces are there upon arrival and departure from hotels, and at the departure airport. At airports, it's moved to a central location where you simply assure it arrived. It was delivered to rooms the entire trip. The system worked flawlessly for us.

 

Be aware that your large ("checked") luggage isn't always in the bus you're in. At the hotels, it's collected and trucked to the airports in one batch.

 

Hotels

 

We had the Westin Chaoyang in Beijing, the Crowne Plaza in Xian and the Shangri-La (west) in Shanghai. We thought the hotels were great - more than adequately spacious, comfortable and clean. None were true "city center" but all were very much in the city, so access via subway or taxi to other sights, restaurants, etc. was fairly straightforward.

 

Be aware there is no expectation you drink the water in the hotels - bottled is supplied. I drank some water at the Westin in Beijing with no problem. I suspect I could have at the Shangri-La in Shanghai, but didn't. The bathroom faucets in the Crowne Plaza Xian were labeled "no drinking water", so I didn't.

 

Hotel Food

 

We didn't avail ourselves of any of the independent restaurants in the hotels. We were either eating out or at the hotel "buffets". The buffet at the Crowne Plaza in Xian was outstanding, great selection and perfectly fine quality, plus free-flowing wine and beer. The buffet at the Westin in Beijing was a disappointment - OK selection, but quality not up to what you'd expect given the quality of the rest of the place. The buffet at the Shangri-La was very pleasant with with decent selection and good quality.

Inter-China Flights

 

The flights (Beijing-Xian, Xian-Chongqing, Wuhan-Shanghai) were all regularly-scheduled Chinese airlines (China Eastern and Xiamen airlines). I was idly thnking how it might be better with a charter, but I assume it becomes a question of cost and liability.

 

In any case, all the aircraft were newer Airbus or Boeing products, and the airplanes and service were similar to western standards (for better or worse).

 

Traffic

 

Traffic in all the cities is just stupid bad. One of the meals out in Beiing, the escort said "15 minutes" to get there. It was an hour and fifteen minutes. After the meal, it took fifteen minutes to get back to the hotel. The only difference was traffic. (As an aside: The delay doubtless screwed up the restaurant's plan, and food was late getting to tables. There were a handful of "ugly Americans" who were loudly complaining about the lateness, and about the "one drink included" part. Don't be those people.)

 

Air Quality

 

It was basically marginal throughout. It got better on the river when we got away from the large cities, but it was never really clear. Not as bad as Beijing has been the last few weeks though.

 

Funny part was the one or two attempts by local guides to say it was "haze" or "fog" and not smog.

 

Be prepared, particularly if you have some chronic respiratory issue.

 

Toilets

 

In all the hotels and aboard the ship it's western-style all the way. At the tour stops, it's mostly squat-style with one western-style fixture (that typically everyone waited in line to use).

 

Shopping

 

In the cities (Beijing and Shanghai in particular), there is shopping of all kinds - from "first-quality tourist junk" to Chicago's Michigan Avenue stuff - within walking or short taxi ride from all the hotels.

 

For the stops while onboard the ship, it's pretty limited to the "tourist market" type stuff, but if you keep your eyes open, there are decent tourist trinkets for the kids or grandkids available at these markets. At these tourist stops, do be prepared for a hard sell (we had one woman follow us for almost a block), and to haggle.

 

This brings us to one of the other minor complaints I had - too much time at the "forced shopping" stops. There were three or four of these stops over the course of the trip. A couple of these are in conjunction with lunch stops. Many (all?) of the places are government-owned stores. I would have preferred to spend those hours doing a driving city tour over a jade carving demo and having a salesgirl follow us around in a jade store.

 

 

Suggestions for Improvement

 

In no particular order:

 

• Fewer forced shopping experiences, more city touring.
  
• A bit more diversity in the included meals. Too many lazy susans.
  
• It seemed to me that the escorts would have a basis to understand the traffic sitation. I wondered if our hour delay getting to a restaurant could have been avoided.
  
• When the airlines are expecting the passengers to do so much themselves online, Viking Air should pay the airlines promptly so the passenger can actually accomplish that.
  

Positives:

 

Again, in no particular order:

 

• Hotels were killer. Very impressed. (Just work with the Westin to up their game re. the food.)
  
• Our tour escort was pleasant, and worked to make things happen for us.
  
• Liked the radios used to provide info at the stops. One could wander away a little but still hear commentary and get logistical info (like where and when we were leaving places).
  
• Our group was pretty good. We had a real overrepresentation of physicians, psychologists and engineers, and not near as many retirees as I would have predicted. I wonder if Viking has a system, or if this was just random chance.
  

 

I'll try and pay attention to the thread and answer any questions if any.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Linanbob2

[Floridiana]

Great details, very helpful for first timers.

 

I thought the Yangtze gorges were wonderful and I have seen the Middle Rhine Valley, the Wachau in Austria and many smaller river valleys in Europe. Only the karst mountains of the Li River near Guilin are more impressive.

 

About the food: We did not travel with Viking, our group was only 8 with ChinaFocus. You are right, the lazy Suzan food became tiresome in our 4 weeks, but our small group went to several restaurants with local customers only and the food was excellent! Of the large restaurants with many Western tourists, only 2 were very good.

[Mark_T]

We got what we wanted (American Airlines nonstops out of Dallas for the China legs).

 

I now wanted to buy the Economy Plus upgrades for the extra leg room (I'm 6'3"), and the airlines won't let you do that at the time of reservation. You need to get the flights reserved and ticketed, and go online and do it yourself. Problem: The American website wouldn't permit me to access the reservation details. Called American to see what the problem was, and it turned out Viking Air made the reservation but (apparently) didn't pay American, so they wouldn't ticket the itinerary. Viking Air, of course, hit my credit card promptly.

 

Just to help with the understanding of what happened there.

 

American Airlines doesn't actually have an 'Economy Plus' cabin they only have what they call 'Main Cabin Extra' which is simply nicer seats but still in the coach cabin with the normal coach service. These seats are available for selection at the point the reservation is made, but they do require a small extra payment if you do not have sufficient Elite status with AA.

 

Similarly it is very normal for the cruise lines to make a reservation but not actually ticket the reservation until much closer to departure than you would find comfortable.

 

Most of them will however ticket upon request as long as final payment has been made (not usually an issue with Viking due to their early payment terms).

 

Also on another small point, you asked what the 'big deal' was about the Peking Duck diner, the point is, it is nothing like any Peking Duck you may have had at home.

 

We elected to do it on our own at the Horizon restaurant attached to the Kerry Hotel in Beijing and it was a fantastic experience, from the carving of the duck at the table to the duck itself which had a flavor I've not seen achieved elsewhere. We were very glad we experienced it and I would not suggest that others miss out on the opportunity.

[Floridiana]

You were lucky, Mark, with your duck. Ours was a lean old bird with no particular taste and the other dishes were mediocre. Supposedly it was one the best Peking duck restaurants. I had much better duck on the flight to Beijing and in Xian.

[Mark_T]

You were lucky, Mark, with your duck. Ours was a lean old bird with no particular taste and the other dishes were mediocre.

 

Which restaurant was this?

 

Was it the organized Viking trip or something you did on your own?

[Floridiana]

It was an organized trip by a very good company called ChinaFocus. Their guides took us to many excellent restaurants, the duck place (have forgotten the name) was not one of them. It was a large restaurant with 2 floors. The lower floor was filled with lots of local costumers and the upper floor had westerners only. Judging by the many restaurants over our 4 week trip, this one was mediocre at best with the duck itself being on par with the worst restaurant on the trip.

 

I can imagine that some ducks are served to western customers that they wouldn't dare serve to discerning Chinese customers in the exact same place.

[Linanbob2]

Just to help with the understanding of what happened there.

 

American Airlines doesn't actually have an 'Economy Plus' cabin they only have what they call 'Main Cabin Extra' which is simply nicer seats but still in the coach cabin with the normal coach service. These seats are available for selection at the point the reservation is made, but they do require a small extra payment if you do not have sufficient Elite status with AA.

 

Similarly it is very normal for the cruise lines to make a reservation but not actually ticket the reservation until much closer to departure than you would find comfortable.

 

Most of them will however ticket upon request as long as final payment has been made (not usually an issue with Viking due to their early payment terms).

 

Hey Mark,

 

Yeah, I get what AA's service is. (It's why I was buying it.)

 

In most cases, I don't care when the cruise line tickets as I haven't needed to do anything with the reservation. In this case, I wanted to get the seats, and seat assignments, while the seats we preferred were available. I started from an assumption that for a 13-hour flight, they might go quickly. So I cared about timing.

 

When we paid in full for the trip, I had a (reasonable, I think) expectation that Viking would ticket the reservation promptly so I could access the reservation. They didn't do this. I gave them weeks, and it was another week or so of phone calls before it got done.

 

Not knowing what the back-office transactions are between Viking and the airlines, I can't say for sure. But I'm not seeing how it's to anyone's disadvantage to ticket immediately upon payment.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Linanbob2

[Linanbob2]

The other thing worth mentioning, at the various sights, don't be surprised if random Chinese stop to take their picture with you. Apparently, many Chinese don't see many westerners, and you're a bit of an oddity to them. (I'm a 6'3" white-haired guy, they see even less of those.) This happened to us at nearly every sightseeing stop.

 

The bit of fun I had with that was while sitting on a bench at the Wuhan museum. Bunch of Chinese grade-school girls on a school trip kept making sidelong glances my way. I smiled and waved. A couple of them decided I didn't bite and came over to (what else) take my picture and try out their English. One asked what my Chinese name was (assuming that westerners had Chinese names like Asians have western names). The look of confusion when I said I didn't have a Chinese name was priceless. I told them my western name, and they giggled madly.

 

When the rest of the group saw this, they all came over. I'm surrounded by 30 ten-year old Chinese girls. (Was never more popular with the girls before!) So I took pictures of the mob surrounding me. Some of the best photos of the trip.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Linanbob2

[id4elizabeth]

Floridana - sounds like the Peking Duck restaurant was at Quan Ju De. We went there once too. Do you remember if it was near a Lake and you had to go down a floor in an elevator to get there? I agree with your assessment if it's the same place.

 

We also had Peking Duck at a place called "Made in China". It's on the first floor of the Grand Hyatt Hotel. The duck was fabulous there as well as the rest of the food. No doubt the price is higher too. But having been to both places, I'm glad we sprung for Made in China, otherwise I'd have no idea why Peking Duck can be so good.

 

My blog travelswithelizabeth.com has pictures of both places.

[Mark_T]

Not knowing what the back-office transactions are between Viking and the airlines, I can't say for sure. But I'm not seeing how it's to anyone's disadvantage to ticket immediately upon payment.

 

Cash-flow and flexibility would be the main reasons for delaying the actual ticketing.

 

Most of the cruise lines will not ticket any earlier than they have to, but most will ticket upon request once final payment is made.

 

There is a risk on their side that if you cancel after they have ticketed, their options to change or cancel that reservation are not the same as if they had not yet ticketed...

[Floridiana]

Floridana - sounds like the Peking Duck restaurant was at Quan Ju De. We went there once too. Do you remember if it was near a Lake and you had to go down a floor in an elevator to get there? I agree with your assessment if it's the same place.

 

 

Elizabeth,

It was a at a busy intersection across from a Carrefour supermarket.

 

As to the photos, the first time people wanted to take my husband's photo (white hair, beard), I was annoyed because only minutes before on Tiananmen square, first one person then another one followed us to listen to the guide's talks. It seemed to me they were making sure she wasn't telling us anything unofficial.

 

Later, taking his photo became the norm. Once we went to a local park in Chendung on our own and became the celebrity of the day. Grandma with baby sat next to us, told us her name, compared her sturdy arms to my thin wrists probably telling me I would not have been able to do her farm work. :)

[Linanbob2]

Cash-flow and flexibility would be the main reasons for delaying the actual ticketing.

 

Most of the cruise lines will not ticket any earlier than they have to, but most will ticket upon request once final payment is made.

 

There is a risk on their side that if you cancel after they have ticketed, their options to change or cancel that reservation are not the same as if they had not yet ticketed...

 

Good points that should have occurred to be.

[OBX Cruisers]

Chongqing

It was straight from the airport to the "bonus" stop to see the pandas. The escort sort of warned us not to broadcast the fact, as not every group would have that chance due to timing of flights. (Don't know if the warning was serious or somewhat in jest.)

 

No he was not kidding. We took the same trip in September 2011 and because we drew the short straw on our flight didn't get to see the pandas in Chongqing. A disappointment. Our guide arranged for a quick trip to the Beijing Zoo to see the pandas there, but we could have done this on our own at the Washington DC Zoo.

[mrobstad]

I'm a little surprised you mentioned several optional tours. Were they extra? Budget river cruses have extra fee tours, but Viking is pricey so I thought everything was included. Thanks for the succinct report.

[Keith1010]

I enjoyed your review.

 

Eventually after we take some river cruises in Europe we'll want to do a River Cruise in Asia.

 

Keith

[Mark_T]

I was annoyed because only minutes before on Tiananmen square, first one person then another one followed us to listen to the guide's talks. It seemed to me they were making sure she wasn't telling us anything unofficial.

 

That is exactly what they were doing.

 

Our guide warned us before we got to the square that there may be some questions she wouldn't be able to answer while we were in that area due to the presence of the 'Secret Police'.

 

There remains a considerable focus on that specific location due to past events and the security there is in large part to stop the ritual suicides of Tibetan monks that have occurred on more than one occasion.

[Mark_T]

I'm a little surprised you mentioned several optional tours. Were they extra? Budget river cruses have extra fee tours, but Viking is pricey so I thought everything was included. Thanks for the succinct report.

 

Viking is not an all-inclusive line, options are available on almost all river cruises, even the expensive ones, it is only the few limited number of really all-inclusive lines like Tauck that really have absolutely no options.

 

In this case the options are quite limited, we only took two of them, a visit to the 'Summer Palace' and the 'Tang Dynasty Show'. Neither was expensive as I recall and there was always a meal provided for those who did not wish to take the option if it included the evening meal with it.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Mark_T

[Viking Cruises]

Dear Linanbob2,

 

Thank you for your detailed review and valuable contribution to the Cruise Critic community.

 

While we are happy to hear you found your overall experience to be enjoyable, we appreciate your constructive comments and suggestions for improvement. Feedback is instrumental in our continued success and we are sincerely grateful for your contribution.

 

Of course, should you wish to discuss your experience with a Viking representative, you are welcome to contact us at TellUs@vikingcruises.com.

 

We hope to welcome you aboard again soon on another river!

 

Warm regards,

Viking Cruises

 

My small way of trying to give back to the forum, since I took away so much good info from here.

 

Viking's Style in China

 

The interesting thing Viking does in China (don't know if their Europe river cruises are the same), is combine the concepts of the land tour with the river cruise.

 

...

[Smbruner]

Linanbob2 - we are on the same exact cruise as you but one year later. Ours begins on 10/20 as we are doing the 2 day extension to get rid of any jet lag.

 

First - thank you for your detailed report - it really helped to read about what we might be able to see and do. I'd love to see the Panda's but it's not critical to our trip.

 

This is a bunch of firsts for us - first river cruise, first time to Asia and first land cruise combo. But, we're very excited. We've been on many cruises but just never any kind of organized tour which I knew we would need to do in China and so we thought Viking would be a great place to start.

 

We're at the Kerry Hotel in Beijing and I'm just wondering if we'll be able to brush our teeth with the tap water? Do you have any knowledge about this? I'm sure we can ask once there but I want to get mentally prepared.

 

Thanks again for your information - we're under 40 days before we leave and starting to get very excited!

 

Susan

[Mark_T]

We're at the Kerry Hotel in Beijing and I'm just wondering if we'll be able to brush our teeth with the tap water? Do you have any knowledge about this? I'm sure we can ask once there but I want to get mentally prepared.

 

No, safer not to use tap water for teeth, but they provide plenty of bottled water so no need to worry.

 

We certainly enjoyed the Kerry Hotel and especially the duck in the restaurant there which we arranged on our own as we had a reservation at Black Sesame Kitchen on the night that everyone else was having the duck dinner.

[Linanbob2]

We're at the Kerry Hotel in Beijing and I'm just wondering if we'll be able to brush our teeth with the tap water? Do you have any knowledge about this? I'm sure we can ask once there but I want to get mentally prepared.

 

You're very welcome.

 

As I mentioned, I drank (as in swallowed) the tap water at the Westin. Now my travel history is around 30-some years and 40-some countries. I've developed a certain ability to make these judgments, and have had "Montezuma's Revenge" only once (in North Africa).

 

If you're at all in doubt, don't take the risk. Last thing you want is getting medical treatment while vacationing. There's plenty of bottled available. (Though I've idly wondered if Chinese bottled water isn't Chinese tap water in a bottle. :) )

 

Enjoy the trip!

[Linanbob2]

This is a bunch of firsts for us - first river cruise, first time to Asia and first land cruise combo. But, we're very excited. We've been on many cruises but just never any kind of organized tour which I knew we would need to do in China and so we thought Viking would be a great place to start.

 

The look-and-feel of it is very different from a typical blue-water cruise. Which I liked. For reasons of space (if nothing else) you won't be flooded with choices onboard. For the land part, if you can navigate the streets and subways, you can have some flexibility. I don't think you'll have much to be concerned about.

[Floridiana]

We never brushed our teeth with tap water in China. Whenever a hotel provides bottles of water in the bathroom, I see it as a strong sign to use them.

[Mark_T]

We never brushed our teeth with tap water in China. Whenever a hotel provides bottles of water in the bathroom, I see it as a strong sign to use them.

 

I think our guide put it rather well, she said that she and other locals would happily use the tap water in the hotel, but as we were not local she would not recommend it.