Unhappy people on the Oosterdam 10/15/05

[trubey]

Lane and I have just spent the afternoon doing Google searches for groups that might be cruising. The list has gotten longer and I saw that the page had been visited almost 80 times already. So I guess we will do something a bit more attractive, soon. Lane has been working on web design for our own family site, so maybe it will be aesthetically pleasing, as well as practical.

 

Randyk47: Please feel free to use it as a link.

 

m steve: That would at least be considerate move by people who obviously had no intention of disturbing others. And it might bring in new converts (sales or religious).

 

jhannah: I love your friend's sense of humor.

 

susana (and did you notice the new link in my signature?)

 

Just curious: Who added the starts to this thread?

[trubey]

It is not beyond the realm of possible my DH and I would disembark. Our cruise would have been so severely impacted that it would be questionable we would stay.

 

Before everyone starts a rant about ....Yah, sure.....who're you kidding etc.

 

We cruise a lot. We cruise many times a year. We won't, don't have to put up with a vacation we will not enjoy.

 

DH would deal with the money issue when we arrived home.

 

If he could not get satisfaction on the ship, I find it very possible we would leave.

 

We did that once in the Bahamas when we arrived at our Resort vacation and they had 'messed up' with our booking very badly.

 

We managed to have a great vacation......elsewhere

 

I wholeheartedly agree! This is something we have done and would do again. As I taught my kids, "If you're uncomfortable or unhappy where you are, go to the nearest airport and throw your American Express card at the clerk, (ours are green, sorry) and go to Paris." Money is meaningless compared to one's personal happiness, in the final analysis.

 

Lane

[xpcdoojk]

If this happened to me I would demand that the ship either refund my cost entirtely and return me at their expense to port of departure. I don't care how big or corporate a group is they have no right to interfere with my booked accomidations. Next the ship will want to move booked passengers from veranda cabins and suite so some corporate executive can have the cabin and they stick you in an inside double bunk room.

Once you have confirmation of your booking whether it is a cabin or a seating, the ship must get your permission for any change and offer compensation as well. If you only like to travel with an aft veranda cabin and a late seating, that's what you should get no matter who else is on the ship.

If they tried that on me, I would be calling the New York Times, the cruise c omanies and the Maritime commision and raise hell and definately let everyone on CC know what an inconsiderate company they might deal with and of course, never sail with them!:eek:

 

You can demand all you want, but they are permitted in the contract to do these things. :D :p

 

jc

[saltydog28]

sail---I, also, am not trying to be smart. But I would like to know what my rights are. I always request a table for two at dinner, because I have allergies. Sometimes, not all the time, I get headaches and or congestion, depending on what and how much fragrance is being worn. Breakfast and lunch aren't a problem, I can get up and walk away. And people don't seem to wear as much purfum during the day.

Once we were seated at a table for 8. I asked to be changed to a table for 2 and was told that there wasn't any other seating available. I just shrugged my shoulders, said "Oh well" and put a few tissues up my sleeve. That was the only time I didn't get a table for 2.

So, what are my rights? Should I be insistant? What do I do if they tell me I'm out of luck?

Now, I tell my TA, It has to be a table for 2 for medical reasons.

 

Thanks for all the info sail.

Take care,

Pat.

[trubey]

It is not beyond the realm of possible my DH and I would disembark. Our cruise would have been so severely impacted that it would be questionable we would stay.

 

Before everyone starts a rant about ....Yah, sure.....who're you kidding etc.

 

We cruise a lot. We cruise many times a year. We won't, don't have to put up with a vacation we will not enjoy.

 

DH would deal with the money issue when we arrived home.

 

If he could not get satisfaction on the ship, I find it very possible we would leave.

 

We did that once in the Bahamas when we arrived at our Resort vacation and they had 'messed up' with our booking very badly.

 

We managed to have a great vacation......elsewhere

 

I wholeheartedly agree! This is something we have done and would do again. As we taught our kids, "If you're uncomfortable or unhappy where you are, go to the nearest airport and throw your American Express card at the clerk and get out. Worry about the details later."

 

Money is meaningless compared to one's personal happiness, in the final analysis.

 

Lane

[HeatherInFlorida]

Susana, I added 5 stars (maybe someone else did, too), but I thought it was worth the stars:) I've only given stars to 2 threads ever.

 

Sail, I am in 100% agreement with you. I can't imagine why anyone would question someone's line of debarkation. I can't say I would leave the ship if this were done to me, but I'd be seriously tempted.

 

Some people seem to think this is a small thing, but it's not. We all look forward to cruises for various reasons. For us a late seating is tantamount to having the experience we want. If the promised expectation cannot be met as promised, then we are owed the opportunity to back out or make alternate plans. It does not get announced to us upon embarkation. Plain and simple.

[Kabana]

There is a christian group on our 2/5/06 Westerdam cruise but not princess house thank goodness! There was some sort of hospital management group on our 3/11 Westerdam cruise last year and the only reason we even noticed was the meetings they held in the rooms designated for those purposes (the Hudson room etc).

[trubey]

You can demand all you want, but they are permitted in the contract to do these things. :D :p

 

jc

Last night, in preparation of my cruise, I was rereading my "Know Before You Go" Booklet. Let me quote:

 

You may request any sitting time, table size and with whom you wish to sit. All such requests should be made in advance of sailing through your travel agent. Requests will be confirmed or waitlisted at the time of booking . . .

 

The Travel Documents indicate the dinner time selected as "confirmed" in the Contract and although the page does have some legal garbage saying that the ticket is subject to the terms and conditions on the following pages, I do not find any provisions regarding dinner time.

 

susana.

[peaches from georgia]

They may be able to make changes according to the contract, but when you have certain elements of your cruise in writing, such as dining time and public rooms available for pax' enjoyment on the ship, then I think that is what you have purchased and what the cruiseline has agreed to.

 

I read here so often "blah, blah, blah happened that I didn't like and none of it was supposed to happen, but I didn't complain and it didn't ruin my cruise...". Sometimes there will be 5, 6, 7 complaints in the same review, a number of which seem pretty material to me, and it always ends with "but it didn't ruin my cruise". Some of things I read sure would ruin my cruise, starting with getting early dining after we got onboard when we had 8:00 confirmed!

 

I think the cruiselines get away with a lot of this because not enough pax demand they get what they were promised and don't let the cruiseline know they are now former pax. Most of these things the pax could have been told before boarding and giving the option of cancelling. A group so big that it necessitates infringing on other pax's rights is one of those things.

 

If you ordered a blue Chevrolet and received a red Chevrolet, I don't think the attitude would be "I didn't say anything because it is still a Chevy and I can drive it". If I had confirmed 8 PM and got 5:45, should I say nothing because I can still eat? Not me I assure you.

[xpcdoojk]

Last night, in preparation of my cruise, I was rereading my "Know Before You Go" Booklet. Let me quote:

 

You may request any sitting time, table size and with whom you wish to sit. All such requests should be made in advance of sailing through your travel agent. Requests will be confirmed or waitlisted at the time of booking . . .

 

 

The Travel Documents indicate the dinner time selected as "confirmed" in the Contract and although the page does have some legal garbage saying that the ticket is subject to the terms and conditions on the following pages, I do not find any provisions regarding dinner time.

 

susana.

 

I agree with you that the contract is full of legal verbiage, but the master of the ship, has authority to make any changes for any reason. It doesn't mean that people can't seek remedy, but it does mean that you really have no authority to change it. The cruiseline would still be offering meals for you to attend at 8pm even if it is in the alternative dining rooms or room service. My only point is that it is silly to say that they cruiseline can't do this, and I am not going to stand for it, anymore than if they have something scheduled and they cancel it. I agree that groups on cruise ships is a major problem for those of us not participating in the group. The company I work for is doing a charter next February. We will have a group of about 1/4 of the capacity of the ship. Fortunately, for the HAL folks it is on RCI. :D I imagine we will have a unified dining time. I could not imagine if I wasn't part of the group that I would want to be in that dining room! JMHO.

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

duplicate post, when is this going to stop?

 

jc

[sail7seas]

sail---I, also, am not trying to be smart. But I would like to know what my rights are. I always request a table for two at dinner, because I have allergies. Sometimes, not all the time, I get headaches and or congestion, depending on what and how much fragrance is being worn. Breakfast and lunch aren't a problem, I can get up and walk away. And people don't seem to wear as much purfum during the day.

Once we were seated at a table for 8. I asked to be changed to a table for 2 and was told that there wasn't any other seating available. I just shrugged my shoulders, said "Oh well" and put a few tissues up my sleeve. That was the only time I didn't get a table for 2.

So, what are my rights? Should I be insistant? What do I do if they tell me I'm out of luck?

Now, I tell my TA, It has to be a table for 2 for medical reasons.

 

Thanks for all the info sail.

Take care,

Pat.

 

Hi Pat....

 

At the risk of sounding sarcastic (which I do not intend) the only way I know to answer your question is to say our rights end at the gangway. It seems as though the cruiselines can and do change/alter/modify at will whatever they choose.

 

So far as I can tell, the only option we have if it displeases us so significantly is to leave. They cannot hold us prisoner.

 

However.....they well could threaten to fine someone for leaving prior to the end of the cruise. Forget trying to get your money back (without excellent legal representation and substantial issues to contest), but a passenger leaving prior to end of cruise could bring up Passenger Carriage Act (Jones Act) issues. The ship might be fined for arriving back in port with fewer pax than they left with. They could pass that fine along to us??? Maybe???? I'm not a maritime lawyer and don't know the answer; I only know the question.

 

Sorry to say, we have no rights aboard a ship.

We choose what line to cruise with predicated upon many things and among those things are reputation. HAL has the reputation of treating their passengers as guests. They have among the best reputation in the industry.

 

But, they do not always treat everyone exactly as they would wish to be treated. Nor does any company that I can think of.

 

Bottom line; money. It's a business.

[babyher]

Sail i am with you all the way on this.

 

I am a pretty easy going guy and I don't let too much bother me or ruin my good time , especially on vacation.

 

I cannot care less if someone changes to go to the show after dinner, I don't care if someone is wearing a ballet tutu and swim fins in the dining room, Smoke just does not bother me so smoke em if ya got em. *LOL*

 

But if I booked a cruise well in advance and finally got on the ship and found out a huge percentage of the pax were a certain group and that i couldn't have my dining time, I couldn't use certain areas of the ship when I wanted because these people were having a function, and that the whole atmosphere of the ship suddenly becomes geared to that group. It would bother me very very much.

[jhannah]

Well, the ship is in Cabo today. Doesn't look as though they've sunk the ship yet! ;)

 

[sail7seas]

:) That's good news, Jim. :)

Great photo.....but can't say I wish I were aboard.

 

[xpcdoojk]

Hi Pat....

 

At the risk of sounding sarcastic (which I do not intend) the only way I know to answer your question is to say our rights end at the gangway. It seems as though the cruiselines can and do change/alter/modify at will whatever they choose.

 

So far as I can tell, the only option we have if it displeases us so significantly is to leave. They cannot hold us prisoner.

 

However.....they well could threaten to fine someone for leaving prior to the end of the cruise. Forget trying to get your money back (without excellent legal representation and substantial issues to contest), but a passenger leaving prior to end of cruise could bring up Passenger Carriage Act (Jones Act) issues. The ship might be fined for arriving back in port with fewer pax than they left with. They could pass that fine along to us??? Maybe???? I'm not a maritime lawyer and don't know the answer; I only know the question.

 

Sorry to say, we have no rights aboard a ship.

We choose what line to cruise with predicated upon many things and among those things are reputation. HAL has the reputation of treating their passengers as guests. They have among the best reputation in the industry.

 

But, they do not always treat everyone exactly as they would wish to be treated. Nor does any company that I can think of.

 

Bottom line; money. It's a business.

 

Exactly, so!

 

It doesn't mean we have to like it, but it really is the way it works!

 

jc

[trubey]

Well, the ship is in Cabo today. Doesn't look as though they've sunk the ship yet! ;)

 

But, if you listen carefully, you can most definitely hear the screams. susana.

[ejbmorr]

Sail7Seas- I just read your views about different things being the MOST important to different folks. I agree with you entirely. I think that I would really be hard pressed to enjoy my cruise if I had to eat at an early seating every night. It is a BIG thing to me too.

It reminds me of the HAL cruise we once were on where I booked later than my companions because of an uncertain business conflict looming. When I finally booked my reservation, it was understood that I was only interested if they could still seat us all at the same table- instead of 7, now there would be 8. No problem, because 7 would be assigned to a table for eight anyway. I would just complete the usual number assigned to the table. You guessed it, on checking after boarding that all was OK with the dining room arrangements, we found that I had been put, by myself, at a table for two. It was FINE, according to them, because the table was next to the other table with the rest of our group and I could ask anyone I wanted to join me each night . :) --- Well, I hit the roof, one of the few times ever, and said for them to work it out as I would get off the ship prior to sailing and insist on a full refund if this was the best that could be done. They fixed it. As it turned out, they had seated the 7 at a round table for 6, not a table for eight as they insisted they always did. For that entire cruise, we 8 ate at a table for 6. Talk about cozy. After the salad course, the bread plates had to be removed to make room for 8 dinner plates. We cruised on another line for the next two cruises and when we came to our first meal on the next HAL cruise we booked, two waiters came up and said- you are the lady and man that were at the table for 6 with your group of 8. Imagine them remembering. So... the moral of the story is.... it may be important to the wait staff too if things get thrown out of wack!

[stanford's girl]

Hi Everyone,

I had to call ships services today to order a bottle for my room. While I had her on her phone, I asked if she could tell me if any groups of 100 or more booked on my sailing. Thankfully, there are not.:)

But I did mention that I am a member of Cruise Critic and there are a lot of upset people about how HAL handled this Princess House thing. The impression she gave me is that Princess House didn't want to charter the whole boat so they just all booked separately and then bombarded the ship. She said that they are aware of how many people are unhappy.She also said that they are trying to accomadate them with free Pinnacle dinners.

 

So HAL is reading this thread!!:cool:

[kryos]

As I mentioned before, we prefer to dine at 5:45 due to DH'a many medications. And I know darn well that the reverse could happen to us some day. To give us a little compensation would not do. DH takes many medications from morning until bedtime. The worst time is taking a couple 2 hours before dinner, then one during dinner, and 2 more 3 hours after dinner. For us having a dinner time say at 8:30 would mean that he would take his dinner medication around 9:30 and then have to stay up till 12:30 to take his bedtime medication - totally out of the question.

Would we leave the ship - probably - and then deal with everything once we got home.

I can well understand your reaction, and Sail's, in this case. I just wanted to see if there were people who would actually insist upon disembarking if this stunt was pulled on them.

 

I only hope that for those on the Oosterdam this week ... for whom the early seating is a "deal breaker" ... that they demanded to disembark and then will deal with HAL for a full refund and reimbursement for this mess when they get home ... through their attorneys if necessary.

 

Personally, I don't think HAL will ever pull this again ... not if I'm reading things correctly. I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread because I've learned a lot from it. I've learned that for some people, meal time is very, very important and they don't wish to be switched. I have a feeling HAL is gonna be paying out a lot of money because of what they did this week, and will never attempt to do it again.

 

Of course, that's not gonna do anything for all the people who had a crappy cruise experience this week ... not just because of the dinner times issue ... but because of the impact this huge group is probably making on their cruise.

 

Like I've said before ... I would MUCH prefer to be told that my cruise was chartered and I was bumped, than to get onboard and find out that I was sailing with a large group such as this. Truthfully, it would not be a fun cruise for those not part of the group. :(

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[sail7seas]

But I did mention that I am a member of Cruise Critic and there are a lot of upset people about how HAL handled this Princess House thing. The impression she gave me is that Princess House didn't want to charter the whole boat so they just all booked separately and then bombarded the ship. She said that they are aware of how many people are unhappy.She also said that they are trying to accomadate them with free Pinnacle dinners.

 

So HAL is reading this thread!!:cool:

 

 

IF....they are reading this thread and they think a dinner in Pinnacle is going to make everything okay........if THAT IS THE CASE.....they really don't get it.

How can someone/anyone think that is sufficient??? Sure wouldn't even make a dent in making us happy. That's a joke IMO

 

 

 

Rita.......I seriously doubt this is the first timet his has happened and doubt it is the last.

 

You may have read my comments this past week about being denied use of CrowsNest (for all but two nights of our cruise) and being thrown out of Navigation Pool on a sea day because the huge group had private parties planned and the rest of us were in the way. These things have happened before; they will happen again. IMO...

 

[mechcc]

Hi Everyone' date='[/size']

I had to call ships services today to order a bottle for my room. While I had her on her phone, I asked if she could tell me if any groups of 100 or more booked on my sailing. Thankfully, there are not.:)

 

But I did mention that I am a member of Cruise Critic and there are a lot of upset people about how HAL handled this Princess House thing. The impression she gave me is that Princess House didn't want to charter the whole boat so they just all booked separately and then bombarded the ship. She said that they are aware of how many people are unhappy.She also said that they are trying to accomadate them with free Pinnacle dinners.

 

So HAL is reading this thread!!:cool:

 

Oh WOW! Free Pinnacle dinners. Gee, and when you go to the Pinnacle isn't it customary to tip everyone that waits on you there? That just cost me more money. I might be able to adjust to the dining time, upset yes but I'm sure the cruise would go downhill after that with all the public places being taken over. If I wanted to go to the Crow's Nest or either pool or any public place on the ship then I should be allowed with the exception of the meeting rooms. Public areas are public areas and should not be closed off for the benefit of some passengers and not others. And if they held open bar everynight in a PS and I could hear the noise in my stateroom and nothing was done, I'd be going Postal - well okay, maybe not that bad. It is legally okay for HAL or any cruiseline to book large groups and not tell other passengers but is it morally okay? I want what I paid for and that is why I like HAL - no beer drinking belly flop contests and a certain ambivance. A red chevy is a red chevy and not a blue chevy.

[kryos]

She said that they are aware of how many people are unhappy.She also said that they are trying to accomadate them with free Pinnacle dinners.

You're kidding, right? In MY case ... and this is my case only ... it would have to be a week's worth to make me happy. I'd expect to eat there every night, minus service charges. But, then ... I'm a beef eater, so I wouldn't mind beef every night.

 

LOL ... man, this board is gonna be hopping next week when all these folks return home. I can only imagine how many other ways they are being screwed on this cruise. Betcha the dining times change is only the tip of the iceberg with a group this big. :(

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[stanford's girl]

IF....they are reading this thread and they think a dinner in Pinnacle is going to make everything okay........if THAT IS THE CASE.....they really don't get it.

 

 

How can someone/anyone think that is sufficient??? Sure wouldn't even make a dent in making us happy. That's a joke IMO

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with you Sail. A free dinner just wouldn't cut it for me either.

[stanford's girl]

Oh WOW! Free Pinnacle dinners. Gee, and when you go to the Pinnacle isn't it customary to tip everyone that waits on you there? That just cost me more money. I might be able to adjust to the dining time, upset yes but I'm sure the cruise would go downhill after that with all the public places being taken over. If I wanted to go to the Crow's Nest or either pool or any public place on the ship then I should be allowed with the exception of the meeting rooms. Public areas are public areas and should not be closed off for the benefit of some passengers and not others. And if they held open bar everynight in a PS and I could hear the noise in my stateroom and nothing was done, I'd be going Postal - well okay, maybe not that bad. It is legally okay for HAL or any cruiseline to book large groups and not tell other passengers but is it morally okay? I want what I paid for and that is why I like HAL - no beer drinking belly flop contests and a certain ambivance. A red chevy is a red chevy and not a blue chevy.

Does anyone know what would happen if you refused to leave the public areas that had been closed off for these big groups?

And I think that it is bad business for any cruise line to not disclose to you if there are big groups on your sailing. I think you should have the right to decide if you want to cruise on that sailing and not have the line make that decision for you.:(