Unhappy people on the Oosterdam 10/15/05

["Wandering Wino's&quo]

:mad:

They would need the entire dining area if their group numbered around 900 which is well may have. If, indeed, the group is that large, they need two full seatings. It seems they opted for the 8:00 and the 8:30 which were probably combined into one seating using both the upper and lower level.

 

So in answer to your question, the way I read it is that all passengers who are not a part of the group gets to have dinner at 5:45 or 6:15 whether they like it or not.

 

I am under the impression that people in "PS" and "S" Suites are guaranteed their choice of dining time. They may not get their choice of table size or particular table by number but I think HAL promises the choice of dining time. If so, it appears they broke a few promises........... It isn't likely that every "S" and "PS" was booked by the group; or maybe that is the case????

 

 

 

My friends that are on this cruise with three other couples all have S Suites, again they were booked in July of 2004 and their documents stated Confirmed Dining: Main Upper. From what they told me yesterday prior to their sailing, they were simply informed when they boarded that their dinning times were changed from Main Seating Upper to 6:15 Lower. And that this was made necessary because of a large group that had booked the dinning rooms and that as I mention earlier the 8:00 seating had been canceled. Of course at that point all H-- broke out. My dear friend is a Beautiful Lady, but she was born in New York and while they have lived in So. California for years, she does not put up with misbehaving people with unacceptable answers when she knows she is being taken advanage of and I certainly believe this was one of those times that she wasn't going to go away without finding someone that had the authority to do something about this problem. Unfortunately it looks like HAL had put themselves in a corner with no way out. Of course now that they are at sea I haven't heard how things are going, but we will be meeting up next Saturday in San Diego when they return and our group of 10 depart on the Oosterdam for a week of what we hope will be paradise. FYI: We also all have S. Suites and Confirmed Main Upper Seating, hope this means something.

Lynn is a CCer so I'm sure you will be hearing from her next week. Keep tuned in!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Reading all this is very upsetting. It's simply not fair. Sometimes I take a lot of what is said here with a grain of salt ... mountains out of molehills, I often think.

 

But such is not the case here. I can't say "WRONG" enough. I almost wish I was going to be here when this cruise returns, but I'll be gone for 2 weeks after on our cruise so may miss the whole thing. I hope someone fills me in.

 

I have a question ... this may have been said and I could have missed it (I apologize if I did) ... but who is this "Princess House" group? I mean is it a company? What do they make/do? Are they something we can boycott?

[ejbmorr]

Trubey- Thank you so much for setting up this wonderful website. I would be one not interested in booking with any huge group also on a ship. Better that they charter the entire ship, I feel! I hope that groups continue to be responsive to listing their groups on your website. You are very nice to oversee this. Thanks again.

EBM

[sail7seas]

Thank you, Shirley, for the clarification. You had posted about the Suites and I forgot. Sorry. I will be following this story with interest. We leave in a little over a week for Volendam, have a Suite and are confirmed for Upper Main 8:00 P.M. I fully expect we will have that seating....but after reading this thread, I realize it can happen to any of us; anytime. I doubt we have those worries for our upcoming cruise though. :) Hope yours works out perfectly for you.

 

[sail7seas]

Trubey- Thank you so much for setting up this wonderful website. I would be one not interested in booking with any huge group also on a ship. Better that they charter the entire ship, I feel! I hope that groups continue to be responsive to listing their groups on your website. You are very nice to oversee this. Thanks again.

EBM

 

 

I agree. Thank you, Trubey. I can see that site becoming as helpful to us as Cruisecal. What a great idea to make this site and let's hope that groups are forthcoming with their information seeing as we cannot count on the cruiselines to tell us.

[Cruiseoften]

Are they something we can boycott?

 

I'll go with that! I can't believe that HAL, or any other Line, makes any 'brownie points' in such situations. I think the sailing should be billed as 'chartered', "dining times subject to change"; "not all ship facilities, amenities will be always available on this cruise." etc.

 

At least give passengers some information! Of course rates would be suitably adjusted. A bit like 'on sale' merchandise - it's billed as 'as is - no refunds' - you know what you're getting into!:(

[RevNeal]

This is utterly unacceptable. To make this kind of a change after confirmation of dining time is made is, as far as I can tell, a willful violation of the booking contract. I just skimmed my tickets and I cannot find anywhere in the contract fine-print where it talks about dining time as being open to their re-scheudling. In other words, in the printed contract they have not covered themselves to enable them to make such a change after confirmation has been given. Since confirmation of dining time is PRINTED on the ticket, it seems to me that doing so makes it a binding part of the contract -- just as much as your cabin assignment.

 

Right now I'm livid at my TA because she stated (back in May) that she would have no trouble getting our dining time on the Westedam next month confirmed at 8 pm. Yet, the documentation says "Confirmed early upper." I've shot her a rather harsh e-mail, asking her why she said she would have it changed and then not change it. No response, yet ... but, then, it's early.

[Oceanwench]

Thanks for the Web site, Trubey.

I've bookmarked it! :)

[Candy]

Oh, please ... not a morticians' convention! :( Could you imagine what a jolly group that would be? :) Blue skies... rita

Our very best friend and cruising buddy is a mortician... in fact, he's the County Coroner, and he has a wonderful sense of humor. Morticians may be solemn and proper when they bury your mama, but they are real people with normal lives and can be lots of fun. We cruise with him often, and hope he and his new bride can join us on Zuidy #7 next year.

 

I'd rather cruise with a large group of morticians than MLM pushers.

 

Candy <-- has only 27 days to lose 9 pounds

[kryos]

Our very best friend and cruising buddy is a mortician... in fact, he's the County Coroner, and he has a wonderful sense of humor. Morticians may be solemn and proper when they bury your mama, but they are real people with normal lives and can be lots of fun. We cruise with him often, and hope he and his new bride can join us on Zuidy #7 next year.

 

I'd rather cruise with a large group of morticians than MLM pushers.

 

Candy <-- has only 27 days to lose 9 pounds

LOL ... I'm sorry, Candy ... I guess my "humor" didn't come through very well. I agree with you. Several of my friends in the past have been morticians and funeral service professionals. They do have a very interesting sense of humor ... and can be a fun bunch too. :)

 

You're right ... a cruise with a group of them would have to be far better than one with an MLM group anyday.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

One form of Mass Attack would be for all of the passengers that had been bumped to early sitting, to order room service at their assigned times and demand that the courses are delivered individually, that the old plates and utensils are removed and then the next course delivered. This would be part of the recompence from HAL. If all of the passengers did this then I think they would get the message.

Can people in any type of cabin do that? I thought only people in the suites could get full dinner service in their cabin ... delivered course by course?

 

I don't think this strategy would work anyway. HAL would simply not have the manpower to serve all those dinners and at some point they would tell passengers who called for room service that they could no longer make the dinner menu available due to being over-capacity.

 

Frankly, I have a better, though more painful idea. If there is truly no "fine print" in HAL's passage contract allowing them to do this ... then any passenger who had a confirmed late dining time on their docs, and who was relegated to early seating ... should have refused to remain onboard once they found out. Surely, they would have been advised of this change before sailing ... probably when they got to their stateroom ... and then should have taken the matter up with the Hotel Manager. If the situation could not be resolved to their satisfaction, they should have demanded to debark with a full refund, as well as compensation for their flights home, wasted vacation time, etc. Of course, HAL will realize that they could either give those affected pax their refunds or they can deal with an aggressive class action attorney who will make their lives miserable, not to mention much, much more expensive.

 

Maybe if HAL were left sailing with an occupancy well under capacity, it would make them come up with a better way of handling this sort of thing in the future.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Our enjoyment of our 8:00 dining is so important to us that if we were ever informed we would be bumped from it prior to our making final payment, we would cancel our cruise.

 

Some may say roll with it.....No. I would roll with some things. Not that!! This facet of our cruise is too important to US to accept such treatment. It would be unacceptable to us.

But the big question is what else can a mere consumer do? Sure, you may say that you would not roll with it, but honestly ... what else could you do? Sure, you could cancel your cruise prior to making final payment, but it would seem to me that most of these poor folks didn't find out about the change in their dining time until they got onboard. So, what would you do at that point ... if you found out that you were gonna be dining at 5:45 or 6:15?

 

Truthfully, Sail, I'm not being a smarta** here ... I'm seriously curious.

 

Like I said, for me it wouldn't be a deal breaker ... but that's me. If they put a hundred bucks or so credit on my shipboard account, I'd "settle" for early seating. But that's just me. What does the person who would not be willing to "settle" do? Would you insist on debarking? Would you eat in the Lido every night, or perhaps dine in your suite?

 

In my case, if they switched my time like this ... and offered no compensation that was satisfactory to me ... I have to say that I would probably continue with my cruise, but would never sail HAL again. I would find another cruise line that met my needs ... and believe me, there are plenty of them out there.

 

I can't wait to read the posts from these passengers when they return. I will be very curious what, if anything, they plan to do about this. And, believe me, I am sure there are far many more complaints than just a change in dining times. With a group the size of the one they have onboard this week, I'd be willing to bet they lost out on a lot of the ammenities for which they paid. Lounges were probably off limits to them on many occasions, the shows may have been geared to the group's tastes, the pools may have been closed at certain times for group functions, etc., etc.

 

Hearing about what took place with the dining times on this cruise makes me even more adament ... no more short cruises for me! I'll try to stay away from the cruises that will appeal to large groups such as this one.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[trubey]

Thanks for all the thank yous, dear cc'ers. And for your e-mails. I'll do some updates today and see if I have time to do a little web searching for some more. But it really won't work unless we each try to provide input. I'm sure this thread will stay toward the top for a while, but when it slips, I'll start another thread to make sure that everyone knows what we are doing.

 

susana.

[CruiseQueen13]

Krazy Kruisers - we do seem to be the minority. If you don't mind me asking how old are you guys? We are 47 & 43 and we enjoy the 6:30. I usually tire early - hectic schedule I guess. This way we catch all the shows, hit the casino, et.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I think it would be worthwhile, Susana, if LauraS would agree to have a thread as a "sticky" with your website about this. I would definitely send her an email and see if she can get that done ... very worthwhile info for HAL cruisers.

 

Dumb again! What is MLM? And I still don't know what Princess House is. I did a Google, but there are several. Are they all intertwined?

 

For those who are saying they prefer the early dining time, understand that this same situation could just as easily happen to you except vice versa. If you like dining at 6:30 (or so), I don't think being given an 8 or 8:30 time would be very good news for you!

[TidePrideGA]

Princess House is a home products company in the Tupperware/Home Interirors vein. They have AWESOME glass products for their price. I have a set of their champagne glasses that are one of my favorite things.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thanks, TidePride! But that does explain what some have said here. I've had a bit of experience around groups like this and they can get quite exuberant:o .

[TidePrideGA]

Oh, yeah. Especially if they're having their awards banquet and stuff, i would imagine they'll be quite rowdy.

[sail7seas]

That is the point, Rita. What is acceptable to you would not necessarily be acceptable to me. While I do not sneer at $100, that money is of no consequence to us for them to try to 'make nice' about forcing us out of our confirmed dining time.

 

I would not begin to tell you what should be your 'deal breaker'.....you cannot know why or what or whether something else is a 'deal breaker' for us.

 

We have dined on the 'dam' ships hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times at what used to be the late (8:15) dining and now at the 8:00. That is the only one we want. That is what we buy. We CARE THAT MUCH. We care enough that we have refused to place deposits until we get confirmed that 8:00 dining is available and we will be assigned it. We would never make final payment without it confirmed in writing.

 

Like anything/everything else in life...........I don't walk in your shoes and think with your brain; you don't walk/think in mine.

 

I can select what matters most to me. You can do the same.

 

I don't ever want compensation from ships/cruiselines. I want them to provide what I bought. Giving me money will do absolutely nothing in this dining situation to make my enjoyment possible. The only thing that would satisfy is serving me dinner in the dining room at the time I am confirmed for. I don't want $100; I don't want $1.000; I want my confirmed dining time.

 

BTW......So far as I know, the only people who can have dinner served course by course in the Suite are those in the Penthouse. They can ask a steward to be present in the galley in their suite to serve their dinner by course.

 

We have only had dinner in our Suite one time out of all of our cruising days. I wasn't feeling well and didn't care to go to the dining room. The whole dinner arrived at once.

[sail7seas]

]But the big question is what else can a mere consumer do? Sure, you may say that you would not roll with it, but honestly ... what else could you do? Sure, you could cancel your cruise prior to making final payment, but it would seem to me that most of these poor folks didn't find out about the change in their dining time until they got onboard. So, what would you do at that point ... if you found out that you were gonna be dining at 5:45 or 6:15?

 

 

It is not beyond the realm of possible my DH and I would disembark. Our cruise would have been so severely impacted that it would be questionable we would stay.

 

Before everyone starts a rant about ....Yah, sure.....who're you kidding etc.

 

We cruise a lot. We cruise many times a year. We won't, don't have to put up with a vacation we will not enjoy.

 

DH would deal with the money issue when we arrived home.

 

If he could not get satisfaction on the ship, I find it very possible we would leave.

 

We did that once in the Bahamas when we arrived at our Resort vacation and they had 'messed up' with our booking very badly.

 

We managed to have a great vacation......elsewhere

[Krazy Kruizers]

As I mentioned before, we prefer to dine at 5:45 due to DH'a many medications. And I know darn well that the reverse could happen to us some day. To give us a little compensation would not do. DH takes many medications from morning until bedtime. The worst time is taking a couple 2 hours before dinner, then one during dinner, and 2 more 3 hours after dinner. For us having a dinner time say at 8:30 would mean that he would take his dinner medication around 9:30 and then have to stay up till 12:30 to take his bedtime medication - totally out of the question.

Would we leave the ship - probably - and then deal with everything once we got home.

[Randyk47]

Trubey - First of all, thanks for the research work. With your permission I'd like to put a link on our homepage www.geocities.com/theklugspage/ to your page. We don't get a huge number of visitors but sometimes, especially after we've posted new cruise pictures, we get a couple hundred. I'll have to admit that I got a bit anxious about our Volendam cruise and was more than a bit relieved that it wasn't on the list....at least not right now. Part of the concern was fed by the fact that the rollcall for that particular cruise is highly undersubscribed.....not many folks signed in right now. Made me start to wonder if the cruise is being taken over by some group as there aren't many cabins left so somebody is booking it. Secondly, it's not so much the dining room experience, we could probably live with that though not happily, as it would to be crowded out of some of our favorites lounges in the evening by some large group. That could potentially ruin the cruise for us. We are a totally 24/7 couple. Luckily I married my best friend and we have a ball together doing our own thing and don't need or want a large group around us.

[m steve]

I have been at convention hotels where a large group has taken over more than half the rooms on the floor and used all the ice on the floor. Many times they have invited us in to acknowledge that they were inconvenienceing us.

If the ship was being taken over by a large company for their convention they should include all the passengers at their cocktail parties so that instead of Pi------ offf the other passengers they might even make a few custoners or contacts that would help them. The ship will still make the money on the drinks but someone else is paying.

[jhannah]

Our very best friend and cruising buddy is a mortician... in fact, he's the County Coroner, and he has a wonderful sense of humor. Morticians may be solemn and proper when they bury your mama, but they are real people with normal lives and can be lots of fun.

So true. I have a mortitian friend who signed his letters "Eventually yours." His company motto was "We're the last in this world to let you down." :D

 

What is MLM?

Multi-Level Marketing.

[karowd2]

We were a party of 6, my wife and I and 2 grandchildren in an "S" Suite, my daugher and her husband in a "C" room on the Rotterdam last February. When we came back from San Juan we were so tired - we didn't feel like getting dressed-up for dinner. I cantacted the Concierge and she made arrangements for a dinner for 5 - off the Dining Room menu to be served course-by-course by our waiters and Table Steward. Our Table Steward stood by and handled our every need!

 

We had a table for 6 in the Upper Dining Room at 8:00 PM so that may have freed them-up!

 

We are doing the Zaandam - Carribean/Panama cruise this coming February with just the Grandkids and we are looking forward to doing this all again on our balcony.

 

It was wonderful to be able to do this and I highly compliment the Concierge, our Waiters and Our Table Steward for this unexpected occasion.