Lawsuit filed over cruises to Cuba

[ONT-CA]

... Tell me, if you were in a similar situation, would you have "stayed and fought" like a "true patriot"? No one should judge another's patriotism until they have walked a mile in their shoes.

 

Without descending into a political quagmire, there was carnage before the revolution as exemplified in the words of the President Of The United States, J. F. Kennedy;

 

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country's policies during the Batista regime..."

 

Fidel Castro commenced the revolution with his brother and 80 men.

[khm1]

Without descending into a political quagmire, there was carnage before the revolution as exemplified in the words of the President Of The United States, J. F. Kennedy;

 

 

 

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country's policies during the Batista regime..."

 

 

 

Fidel Castro commenced the revolution with his brother and 80 men.

 

 

 

History repeats itself over and over. Cuba traded one, corrupt, brutal dictator (Batista) with a worse communist murderer and tyrant (Fidel Castro). How many times in history has this happened? I would argue too many to count. Don't worry. I am fully aware and knowledgeable of the history of the Cuban revolution.

 

From Senator Bob Menendez (democrat, NJ) on the Carnival/Cuba situation:

"I never could have fathomed an American company could be so blinded by the prospect of profit in Cuba that it would enter into a business deal with the Castros that tramples on the civil rights of our own American citizens. Make no mistake–by discriminating against Cuban-Americans, Carnival is allowing the Castro regime to extend its oppressive reach to our shores."

[ONT-CA]

...Tell me, if you were in a similar situation, would you have "stayed and fought" like a "true patriot"? No one should judge another's patriotism until they have walked a mile in their shoes.

 

I mention the Castro brothers and their 80 followers in an effort to understand the patriotism of the 55,916 citizens who left Cuba between 1962 and 1965

[khm1]

I mention the Castro brothers and their 80 followers in an effort to understand the patriotism of the 55,916 citizens who left Cuba between 1962 and 1965

 

 

 

They felt that they had no choice but to leave. Things were very bad there. There were a lot of innocent victims of the communist regime. They had no way to fight back. All of the private guns were taken away at the beginning of the revolution. There was no way to fight back.

[ONT-CA]

Those Cuban Americans that are forbidden to set foot in Cuba should not have to pay port fees for Cuba.

 

There have been cruises where we just stayed aboard and enjoy the ship and not gone ashore. We still had to pay port fees. I guess it come right down to, if you insist on travelling to where you are not welcomed, expect difficulties.

[Paulette3028]

You expressed it sasinkly when you said they abandoned Cuba for a better life. Yet there is indeed a wish by these expatriates that Cuba return to the ways of pre revolution but I think it fair to say that will not happen. So what could be served in their returning now? To gloat in the gains of their standard of living? The price for this "better life" currently seems to be banishment.

 

The poetic words of Sir Waltrer Scott come to mind;

 

Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,

Who never to himself hath said,

This is my own, my native land!

 

Returning as a visitor to see the land they left years ago, is more a curiosity for Cuban born people, who are now citizens of other lands, than an ability to 'gloat'. Some of them might like to see relatives who are still there, but not to gloat, just to hug....not inhuman to seek that.

 

Even Jewish people whose family were persecuted at the hands of the ****'s have a desire to see the land/country from which the terror was fostered. They have little desire to live there or leave the homeland they now have, but their curiosity still exists.

[ONT-CA]

I found this article to sum up the situation:

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Insights/The-root-of-Cuba-exile-rules

[khm1]

I found this article to sum up the situation:

 

 

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Insights/The-root-of-Cuba-exile-rules

 

 

 

This article is an opinion piece. It was in part a response to this article: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article70622582.html

 

It certainly does not sum up both sides of the argument, but rather, offers the author's point of view.

Edited April 16, 2016 by khm1

[Paulette3028]

This article is an opinion piece. It was in part a response to this article: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article70622582.html

 

It certainly does not sum up both sides of the argument, but rather, offers the author's point of view.

 

Countries around the world that negotiate trade deals with the US, shouldn't worry if Carnival Cruise Line is an example of the negotiating savvy that private businessman from the US have. It was a disgrace that when Carnival had leverage they could not get the Cuban government to change their policy. Maybe they did not realize it was going to be such a big problem (foolish on their part) until it became a problem. Asking the Cuban government now to change their policy will be futile.

[khm1]

Countries around the world that negotiate trade deals with the US, shouldn't worry if Carnival Cruise Line is an example of the negotiating savvy that private businessman from the US have. It was a disgrace that when Carnival had leverage they could not get the Cuban government to change their policy. Maybe they did not realize it was going to be such a big problem (foolish on their part) until it became a problem. Asking the Cuban government now to change their policy will be futile.

 

 

 

Yup. The time for negotiation has past. That ship has sailed (pun intended).

[Paulette3028]

Yup. The time for negotiation has past. That ship has sailed (pun intended).

 

I like that pun!

[khm1]

Update:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article72408372.html

[Paulette3028]

Update:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article72408372.html

 

I amazes me that Carnival 'remains optimistic' that Cuba will change its policy. May 1 is around the corner........

[wadethegringo]

From FAQ yourcubacruise

 

 

If I was born in Cuba and am a citizen of another country can I travel with Cuba Cruise?

 

At this time the Cuban authorities will not permit any person of Cuban citizenship, regardless of dual nationality or country of residence, to embark or disembark at any Cuban port.

[khm1]

From FAQ yourcubacruise

 

 

 

 

 

If I was born in Cuba and am a citizen of another country can I travel with Cuba Cruise?

 

 

 

At this time the Cuban authorities will not permit any person of Cuban citizenship, regardless of dual nationality or country of residence, to embark or disembark at any Cuban port.

 

 

 

Yes. This is on the U.S. State department website as well.

[Paulette3028]

Trust me Carnival know all this because all the Cuban Americans that go on cruises that departs from Spain,Canada or wherever are Not allowed to disembark from the ship in Cuba.

And here in Miami are thousands of Cuban Americans most of them are married to people

of others nationality like in my case.

I love Carnival and we have two cruises booked next month. But I think what Carnival doing is just WRONG.

 

I have never looked at the itineraries of cruises that depart from Spain, Canada or other countries. I would imagine that the Cuban ports of call they include on their itineraries are one day stops, so that if a person with dual nationality (although the cruiser may not consider themselves a Cuban because they have citizenship from another country) can not disembark at that port, it may not be a big deal. However the FATHOM cruises have ONLY Cuban ports of call. They are set up specifically as Cultural Expeditions or People2People special cruises, with heavy price tags. Not being able to disembark at any of the ports, would be ridiculous.

 

I highly doubt that the Cuban government will change their regulations….they haven’t done it for other cruise lines, and I can’t see any reason to treat Carnival differently. Carnival has no leverage to make them do it either.

[tring]

I have never looked at the itineraries of cruises that depart from Spain, Canada or other countries. I would imagine that the Cuban ports of call they include on their itineraries are one day stops, so that if a person with dual nationality (although the cruiser may not consider themselves a Cuban because they have citizenship from another country) can not disembark at that port, it may not be a big deal. However the FATHOM cruises have ONLY Cuban ports of call. They are set up specifically as Cultural Expeditions or People2People special cruises, with heavy price tags. Not being able to disembark at any of the ports, would be ridiculous.

 

I highly doubt that the Cuban government will change their regulations….they haven’t done it for other cruise lines, and I can’t see any reason to treat Carnival differently. Carnival has no leverage to make them do it either.

 

Carnival Corporation owned brands (and RCI brands) do not visit Cuba, (even for one day stops), and even if the individual brands are based almost entirely in other countries, (e.g. P&O in Britain which is Carnival Corp. owned). Fathom is the first such venture for the Carnival Corporation.

 

The British companies which sometimes stop at one or more ports in Cuba are Voyages of Discovery and Swan Hellenic, (which are owned by the British based All Leisure Group) and Fred Olsen, (which is owned by a Norweigian family, but is based in Britain).

 

Other than Cuba Cruise, (which was originally Canadian run, and is now run directly from Greece), I do not have extensive knowledge of companies which are Canadian or Continental European owned that do visit Cuba, but I have seen some of those ships on Cuban port schedules at times.

 

We have not visited Cuba on any of the British owned cruise lines, so cannot say if there are any specific restrictions particularly mentioned for those cruises, but as the majority of their passengers live in Britain, it is unlikely any Cuban born person will be on board. Some Americans and other nationalities do travel with these companies though, because of their small ships and unusual destinations.

 

The position with Cuba Cruise was highlighted by me earlier in this thread and has been repeated by another poster recently. I do not see why any other Cuban National would be treated differently no matter where they sail from, or who they sail with, as the restrictions quoted make the situation clear for all Cuban born people.

Edited April 20, 2016 by tring

[tring]

One I forgot.

 

Another British based company which visits Cuban ports is Thomson, which was taken over by Tui about ten years or so ago. Tui are German owned.

[ONT-CA]

... I do not see why any other Cuban National would be treated differently no matter where they sail from, or who they sail with, as the restrictions quoted make the situation clear for all Cuban born people.

 

So as not to confuse anyone on the subject of restrictions, Cuban staff aboard the Crystal are free to go ashore, many to visit their families, as they are not part of the exodus designation. They may also disembark on foreign soil for we see them shopping with their foreign currency tips for items scarce at home. They were unable to work for any cruise line that visited US ports. A Cuban waiter well know to us did work for another line and as soon as that line created an itinerary that included a US port of call, he had to leave. That regulation made Celestyal an idea employer for Cuban nationals. However that regulation may now be changing with the softening of relations.