Lawsuit filed over cruises to Cuba

[Paulette3028]

This should have been an all or nothing agreement...Carnival ALLOWED Cuba to dictate what would happen...Carnival should've said ok well sorry you lose out on all that tourism profit because you refuse to agree. That's a slap in the face to those who are now US citizens but were born in Cuba. Their mother country still gets to dictate what happens in their life? I don't think so. It's just wrong.

 

John Kerry discusses Carnival to Cuba.

 

http://www.local10.com/news/cuba/john-kerry-says-carnival-shouldnt-allow-cuba-to-dictate-who-travels-on-its-cruises?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_WPLG_Local_10

 

 

I find it interesting that the last line of the article states: "Carnival said it has asked the communist country to change its policy."

 

Like in all GOOD business negotiations, you need some leverage.....the time to have asked (even insisted to have the cruise line consider sailing to Cuba) the Cuban government to change the policy was BEFORE the Carnival Cruise Line committed to sail to Cuba. Cuba knows that there will be plenty of people who will pay the fare (in my personal view the fares I have seen for FATHOM are exorbitant). They could care less what passengers fill the ship as long as Cuba gets the money they will earn from CCL, and as long as Cuba has a reason to deny Cuban born American citizens from travelling by ship, they will. It probably will take lifting the Embargo to do it, and OUR Congress is not very likely in the near future to do that. They won't do anything that President Obama wants done.

[mzloolue]

This is all interesting.

 

Glad that I do not want to go to Cuba.

Ever.

 

Maybe it was those missle drills in elementary school...

[elliair]

So, what will Cuba do to the people who are aboard the ship, and were natural born in Cuba? And how about the Captain and other officers? They will have all broken Cuban law.

 

What then? It's not only United States laws at work here, and Cuba would be within their rights to exact punishment for those breaking the laws on their own soil, even if their own laws are discriminatory.

 

Cuba along with a few other countries are on my list of never to visit. I don't trust too many foreign governments. I would hate to be held hostage in Cuba. I'm surprised that Carnival jumped on the bandwagon to go there when they nor Princess will even go to Acapulco!

[elliair]

This is all interesting.

 

Glad that I do not want to go to Cuba.

Ever.

 

Maybe it was those missle drills in elementary school...

 

Yep, it was called Duck and Cover, and those small desks that we got under was suppose to protect us. I remember those drills well.:eek:

 

Edited April 15, 2016 by elliair

[CJHAN]

Yes, it is Cuba's law. However, Carnival is selling this cruise that originates from a U.S. port. Consider this for a minute. If you were not allowed to buy any service or product provided by an American (or any other country) company, simply due to your country of birth, regardless of your citizenship, would that be fair? Can you imagine if this were extrapolated to race, or religion? I think that these cruise companies are a little ahead of the game here. There is much to be worked out before cruises to Cuba that originate from the U.S. become reality.

 

Up until recently by nature of being an american born citizen you could not buy thing in Cuba or go to Cuba without very special permissions. This is no different then what we have been doing for the last 60 years. Now its a problem when they do it?

[CJHAN]

I agree but it shouldn't be up to the cruise line to make that decision. Any US agreement should have been all or nothing.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

Why? I want to go to Cuba but because Cuba Has a law that says another person cant go then I shouldn't be able to go either? Strip clubs dont allow people under the age of 18 to enter does that mean I should not be allowed in either? It should be all or nothing right?

[Big_G]

Why? I want to go to Cuba but because Cuba Has a law that says another person cant go then I shouldn't be able to go either? Strip clubs dont allow people under the age of 18 to enter does that mean I should not be allowed in either? It should be all or nothing right?

...and that's why the strip club doesn't make that call. What a lame analogy. You can't do better than that?

 

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[khm1]

Up until recently by nature of being an american born citizen you could not buy thing in Cuba or go to Cuba without very special permissions. This is no different then what we have been doing for the last 60 years. Now its a problem when they do it?

 

 

 

That is hardly a fair or accurate comparison. They are only discriminating against Cuban born United States citizens. Do you even understand the history of the embargo? It was started by JFK. The Cuban communist stole millions of dollars worth of property from US companies that had interests there. There was also the Cuban Missile crisis, where we came a breath away from nuclear war. The embargo came about due to real historical events.

[Jenal2]

Wow, that's ridiculous! I'm sure Carnival would love to take their money; their hands are just tied.

 

 

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Exactly. Carnival is being punished as much as anyone by not being able to sell cruises to Cuban born potential cruisers. With all of their money and attorneys, if there were a way around it they would find it. They didn't make the law and have no choice but to comply with it.

 

Lawsuit is going nowhere.

 

 

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[ONT-CA]

Maybe Fathom should take the Cuban born citizens there and then they can get arrested by Cuban authorities. At least Fathom wouldn't be discriminating, right?

 

Exactly! They can board the ship and enjoy the cruise but they cannot put a foot on Cuban soil solely because the Cuban government will not allow them to. They would have to remain aboard. Not unlike purchasing an airline ticket only to be told when you get to the gate that you are on some kind of list that prohibits you from getting aboard the plane.

Edited April 15, 2016 by ONT-CA

[tring]

So for all the other cruiselines that cruise to Cuba with Europeans or Canadians

Can Cuban born citizens cruise on their ships to Cuba????

 

I have recently been on the Celestyal Crystal (Cuba Cruise). From what I remember there was something in writing that said Cuban Nationals could not embark or disembark the ship in any Cuban port. There were Cuban staff on board, so I assume they embarked them via Montego Bay, which is a second embarkation port that is used for US people to people groups.

 

I think the requirement may have been in the terms and conditions on their website, which you could find if you look at the website, but I am not totally sure where I saw it.

 

Hence, if my understanding is correct, the requirement is for all Cuban Nationals, not just those resident in the US. The assumption taken here is because someone just said they thought it was just for US residents and I think that was incorrect.

 

Someone may wish to double check that. It may not have said Cuban Nationals, but people whao were born in Cuba - I am not sure of the words used, but remember thinking it would affect Cuban staff.

Edited April 15, 2016 by tring

[Paulette3028]

This should have been an all or nothing agreement...Carnival ALLOWED Cuba to dictate what would happen...Carnival should've said ok well sorry you lose out on all that tourism profit because you refuse to agree. That's a slap in the face to those who are now US citizens but were born in Cuba. Their mother country still gets to dictate what happens in their life? I don't think so. It's just wrong.

 

Exactly. Carnival is being punished as much as anyone by not being able to sell cruises to Cuban born potential cruisers. With all of their money and attorneys, if there were a way around it they would find it. They didn't make the law and have no choice but to comply with it.

 

Lawsuit is going nowhere.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

Carnival with its' POOR to TERRIBLE negotiating skills put themselves into this situation. Carnival is not being punished, they poorly negotiated the arrangements with the Cuban authorities, and if they did not know the specifics regarding US citizens who were born in Cuba, that is even more foolish.

 

It shows just how TERRIBLE some American corps are at negotiating.

 

Glad that Royal is showing restraint in putting out something they may not be able to deliver effectively on (for those that want to go there).

[Paulette3028]

I have recently been on the Celestyal Crystal (Cuba Cruise). From what I remember there was something in writing that said Cuban Nationals could not embark or disembark the ship in any Cuban port. There were Cuban staff on board, so I assume they embarked them via Montego Bay, which is a second embarkation port that is used for US people to people groups.

 

I think the requirement may have been in the terms and conditions on their website, which you could find if you look at the website, but I am not totally sure where I saw it.

 

Hence, if my understanding is correct, the requirement is for all Cuban Nationals, not just those resident in the US. The assumption taken here is because someone just said they thought it was just for US residents and I think that was incorrect. Someone may wish to double check that.

 

If ALL Cuban nationals, regardless of what country they currently held their citizenship from are unable to disembark in Cuba, that would seriously limit the amount of available passengers that could go.....and that would cause for lots of press coverage (my thought, and only that).

[ONT-CA]

If ALL Cuban nationals, regardless of what country they currently held their citizenship from are unable to disembark in Cuba, that would seriously limit the amount of available passengers that could go.....and that would cause for lots of press coverage (my thought, and only that).

 

I remember the great exodus from Cuba when their government said that once you leave you cannot return. Most said they would never want to return. I can't imagine there are hordes of expatriates wishing to get aboard a ship to Havana. The countries of the world are rife with rules, be it travel, clothing or religion. This is but one of them.

[Paulette3028]

I remember the great exodus from Cuba when their government said that once you leave you cannot return. Most said they would never want to return. I can't imagine there are hordes of expatriates wishing to get aboard a ship to Havana. The countries of the world are rife with rules, be it travel, clothing or religion. This is but one of them.

 

I also remember the exodus from Cuban....many Cuban Jews settled in our Brooklyn, NY community because we were a Sephardic synogogue where many members spoke Ladino and the Cubans felt a comfort of language while they learned English. They always yearned for a time to return to visit the land they abandoned for a better life. So I imagine it quite differently.

[tring]

I have found the wording I referred to above and have copied and pasted it below:-

 

At this time the Cuban authorities will not permit any person of Cuban citizenship, regardless of dual nationality or country of residence, from embarking or disembarking at any Cuban port.

This was taken from the Cuba Cruise T&C's which I accessed by a link on their website, so the info is current.

Edited April 15, 2016 by tring

[ONT-CA]

I also remember the exodus from Cuban....many Cuban Jews settled in our Brooklyn, NY community because we were a Sephardic synogogue where many members spoke Ladino and the Cubans felt a comfort of language while they learned English. They always yearned for a time to return to visit the land they abandoned for a better life. So I imagine it quite differently.

 

You expressed it sasinkly when you said they abandoned Cuba for a better life. Yet there is indeed a wish by these expatriates that Cuba return to the ways of pre revolution but I think it fair to say that will not happen. So what could be served in their returning now? To gloat in the gains of their standard of living? The price for this "better life" currently seems to be banishment.

 

The poetic words of Sir Waltrer Scott come to mind;

 

Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,

Who never to himself hath said,

This is my own, my native land!

[khm1]

You expressed it sasinkly when you said they abandoned Cuba for a better life. Yet there is indeed a wish by these expatriates that Cuba return to the ways of pre revolution but I think it fair to say that will not happen. So what could be served in their returning now? To gloat in the gains of their standard of living? The price for this "better life" currently seems to be banishment.

 

 

 

The poetic words of Sir Waltrer Scott come to mind;

 

 

 

Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,

 

Who never to himself hath said,

 

This is my own, my native land!

 

 

 

Of course there is the question of what will happen to all of the property that was seized by the communist Castro regime. There are many Cuban expatriates that would like their property rights returned if the government ever became democratic. Therefore, there is indeed a motivation to return for many. It is, after all, the country of their birth with a rich history and culture. You cannot discount that fact.

[Isasprings]

Carnival with its' POOR to TERRIBLE negotiating skills put themselves into this situation. Carnival is not being punished, they poorly negotiated the arrangements with the Cuban authorities, and if they did not know the specifics regarding US citizens who were born in Cuba, that is even more foolish.

 

It shows just how TERRIBLE some American corps are at negotiating.

 

Glad that Royal is showing restraint in putting out something they may not be able to deliver effectively on (for those that want to go there).

 

Trust me Carnival know all this because all the Cuban Americans that go on cruises that departs from Spain,Canada or wherever are Not allowed to disembark from the ship in Cuba.

And here in Miami are thousands of Cuban Americans most of them are married to people

of others nationality like in my case.

I love Carnival and we have two cruises booked next month. But I think what Carnival doing is just WRONG.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Isasprings

[tring]

Trust me Carnival know all this because all the Cuban Americans that go on cruises that departs from Spain,Canada or wherever are Not allowed to disembark from the ship in Cuba.

And here in Miami are thousands of Cuban Americans most of them are married to people

of others nationality like in my case.

I love Carnival and we have two cruises booked next month. But I think what Carnival doing is just WRONG.

 

As I have pointed out this is nothing to do with people being Cuban Americans, but is something applied to all Cubans.

 

Holidays of all sorts are offered and some people cannot partake of all of them, but I do not see how that should stop others travelling. Cost and health could be major restricting factors and there are all sorts of rules from various countries regarding nationals of other countries.

 

We once turned up at our local airport to fly out to a ship that was going up the Amazon and one potential passenger was not allowed to board the plane as his yellow fever certificate had expired. The ship would not have been allowed up the Amazon with him on board. He had not checked he fulfilled a requirement we had been warned about, so he was at fault.

 

The US is well know for restricting access to certain people, often for reasons that would not cause restrictions in other western countries. I suspect there could well be the odd Cuban on that banned list.

 

People just go on holidays that are suitable for themselves and I do not see the need for resentment and suggestions that others should not be able to travel to somewhere that some people cannot. I do not see wide scale objections if people cannot travel for other reasons, so this seems very strange indeed.

Edited April 15, 2016 by tring

[ONT-CA]

Of course there is the question of what will happen to all of the property that was seized by the communist Castro regime. There are many Cuban expatriates that would like their property rights returned if the government ever became democratic. Therefore, there is indeed a motivation to return for many. It is, after all, the country of their birth with a rich history and culture. You cannot discount that fact.

 

In a humorous way I can relate the Cuban exodus to the jovial statements about the upcoming American election. The oft heard “If Trump wins the election, we’re moving to Canada”. But joking aside, in difficult times a true patriot does not abandon his home and native land but stays and endures and fights to right the wrongs. If conditions in Cuba are now improving, it will be because of those who stayed and worked toward that end.

[khm1]

In a humorous way I can relate the Cuban exodus to the jovial statements about the upcoming American election. The oft heard “If Trump wins the election, we’re moving to Canada”. But joking aside, in difficult times a true patriot does not abandon his home and native land but stays and endures and fights to right the wrongs. If conditions in Cuba are now improving, it will be because of those who stayed and worked toward that end.

 

 

 

This is no joke: The people that stayed and fought are either dead or still rotting in prison, without the benefit of a fair trial. Your statement is mis-informed, at best. There was carnage at the start of the Cuban Revolution. My family left because my grandfather was tipped off that he was about to go to prison, or worse. My mother and uncle were informed that they were about to be sent to a communist youth re-education camp. My mother was made to watch, on live TV, public executions while in school. She was 13. Tell me, if you were in a similar situation, would you have "stayed and fought" like a "true patriot"? No one should judge another's patriotism until they have walked a mile in their shoes.

Edited April 15, 2016 by khm1

[CJHAN]

That is hardly a fair or accurate comparison. They are only discriminating against Cuban born United States citizens. Do you even understand the history of the embargo? It was started by JFK. The Cuban communist stole millions of dollars worth of property from US companies that had interests there. There was also the Cuban Missile crisis, where we came a breath away from nuclear war. The embargo came about due to real historical events.

 

Its 100% fair and accurate. The U.S has its set of Laws and Cuba his its Laws anyone wanting access to Cuba has to follow those laws its No different then what we have been doing for the last 60 years. they made a law in their country we have no right to say what they can do just as no other country has the right to tell us what to do. You mention the Cuban missile crisis. How many Nukes does Cuba Have? None. The embargo with the actual treat to the us didnt last as long as did the one with the small country that has no ability to harm us in any way, why is that?

[knittinggirl]

Exactly! They can board the ship and enjoy the cruise but they cannot put a foot on Cuban soil solely because the Cuban government will not allow them to. They would have to remain aboard. Not unlike purchasing an airline ticket only to be told when you get to the gate that you are on some kind of list that prohibits you from getting aboard the plane.

Those Cuban Americans that are forbidden to set foot in Cuba should not have to pay port fees for Cuba.

[khm1]

Its 100% fair and accurate. The U.S has its set of Laws and Cuba his its Laws anyone wanting access to Cuba has to follow those laws its No different then what we have been doing for the last 60 years. they made a law in their country we have no right to say what they can do just as no other country has the right to tell us what to do. You mention the Cuban missile crisis. How many Nukes does Cuba Have? None. The embargo with the actual treat to the us didnt last as long as did the one with the small country that has no ability to harm us in any way, why is that?

 

 

 

I already answered your last question. One of the reasons for the embargo is that the Cuban government stole millions of dollars worth of property from US companies that had financial interests on the island. Therefore Cuba has harmed US companies financially. They have also flooded our immigration system with their own criminals and prisoners in the past. As far as it being a small country, it is the largest land mass in the Caribbean. I beg to differ on your opinion that you are drawing a just comparison. This situation is extremely unique.