Jones Act

[cruisincorgi]

Hello. Has anyone ever been able to board a ship at a port of call. Thinking about taking a Gem cruise from NYC in March, 2017, but daughter, who is a college student, wouldn't be able to join wife and I until ship made first port in San Juan. Is there a way around the Jones Act, that will allow NCL to let her board ( as a booked guest) in San Juan? My TA says it's not an easy thing to do. Spoke with my NCL PCC and they said it wouldn't be a problem. I'd sure appreciate some advice. Thank you.

[JohnIreland]

Don't see anyway around the PVSA (the Jones Act is for cargo) if she wants to join in San Juan.

 

Would joining a day later in St. Thomas work ?

[Ontime Departure]

I could be wrong but San Juan is a US territory so there should be no problem joining there.

[Into Cruising]

They did have their passport, though, and if I remember right, the island they got off on was St Martin

[FLACRUISER99]

You would have to pay the $300 fine.

[JohnIreland]

Looking a bit further there was an exception added for Puerto Rico back in 2003.

 

Not sure how to tell if it's still in force.

[cruisincorgi]

Is there anyone I could call at NCL that could provide me greater clarification?

[Into Cruising]

passing or failing the Jones Act?

 

 

The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of Non-U.S registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships. Note: Puerto Rico and the U.S Virgin Islands (St. Thomas; St. Croix; St. John) are not in the category of U.S ports under this act.

 

The exception to this rule is if the itinerary includes a 'distant foreign port'. South America and the ABC Islands (Aruba-Bonaire-Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports. Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands do not qualify as distant foreign ports.

 

Any guest who insists on embarking (due to unforeseen circumstances outside the guest’s control, for missing the ship) or debarking (for emergency reasons), which violates the Jones Act, will accept responsibility for any resulting penalties ($300 USD per person). Important Note: Guests cannot pre-plan or purposely embark or debark a ship in a U.S port that will violate the Jones Act.

[herdingdogmom]

I recently called NCL asking this question. The cruise was from Los Angeles to Vancouver. I wanted to board at the first port in San Francisco. I was told it was not allowed by the phone rep who asked his supervisor. The explanation didn't make any sense to me - something about the cruise being point A to point B and not round trip.

 

Sounds like it violates the law described above, but there would also be no embarkation process set up at the port and it would create a lot of extra paperwork for them.

 

I was told that disembarking before the final port is allowed, but requires written permission from NCL.

Edited May 3, 2016 by herdingdogmom

[luvtheships]

It's college and it spring break not end of semester exams. Can't she miss a few classes?

 

Alternately do this itin in January like I have been doing with my college kids

 

However if younger kids are involved I understand why you couldn't do Jan

 

But if it's just the college kid you have other choices....

 

1. January

 

2. Miss some classes

[njhorseman]

Hello. Has anyone ever been able to board a ship at a port of call. Thinking about taking a Gem cruise from NYC in March, 2017, but daughter, who is a college student, wouldn't be able to join wife and I until ship made first port in San Juan. Is there a way around the Jones Act, that will allow NCL to let her board ( as a booked guest) in San Juan? My TA says it's not an easy thing to do. Spoke with my NCL PCC and they said it wouldn't be a problem. I'd sure appreciate some advice. Thank you.

 

There is a PVSA (not the Jones Act, which governs the transportation of cargo) exception in place for Puerto Rico, so with the cruise line's approval a passenger can board in San Juan and disembark in NY without the ship calling on a distant foreign port (such as Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao) between San Juan and NY. There will not be a PVSA fine for doing this.

 

In fact we are booked on a Gem cruise this December that starts in San Juan and ends in NY, with no distant foreign port on the itinerary. Our cruise actually originates in San Juan.

 

However, it is important that you obtain NCL's written approval to do this because the passenger will not be boarding in the normal embarkation port. In addition, since this will not be a closed loop cruise a passenger boarding in San Juan can't cruise using a birth certificate and drivers license. A passport, passport card, enhanced drivers license or other WHTI-approved document will be required.

Edited May 3, 2016 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

I recently called NCL asking this question. The cruise was from Los Angeles to Vancouver. I wanted to board at the first port in San Francisco. I was told it was not allowed by the phone rep who asked his supervisor. The explanation didn't make any sense to me - something about the cruise being point A to point B and not round trip.

 

Sounds like it violates the law described above, but there would also be no embarkation process set up at the port and it would create a lot of extra paperwork for them.

 

I was told that disembarking before the final port is allowed, but requires written permission from NCL.

 

It certainly is legal for you to board in San Francisco and disembark in Vancouver. It's no different than taking the QM2 from NY to England...you're boarding in the US and disembarking in a foreign country.

 

NCL might not want you to do it because they don't want to go to the trouble and expense of setting up an embarkation process in San Francisco, but the itinerary itself, San Francisco to Vancouver, is legal.

[njhorseman]

I could be wrong but San Juan is a US territory so there should be no problem joining there.

 

Actually, it's just the other way around. Boarding in the US other than at the original embarkation port is what causes a potential PVSA violation for a foreign-flagged ship. However, there is an exception to the PVSA in place for Puerto Rico that allows boarding there and creating an open jaw itinerary that would otherwise be prohibited.

[njhorseman]

isn't the cruise itinerary itself deemed as ....passing or failing the Jones Act?

 

While a foreign-flagged ship can't schedule a cruise that would be in violation of the PVSA, ultimately it's the embarkation and disembarkation ports of individual passengers that determine whether a PVSA violation has occurred. In other words the ship's scheduled itinerary can be perfectly legal, but if a passenger does not adhere to that itinerary a PVSA violation resulting in a $300 fine per passenger disembarking in violation would be assessed against the cruise line, which would normally make the passenger pay the $300.

 

For example, let's say I'm on a cruise that starts in NY, visits Port Canaveral, then Nassau and returns to NY. That itinerary itself complies with the PVSA, but if I were to disembark in Port Canaveral, my individual itinerary would violate the PVSA and the cruise line would be fined $300 as a result of my actions.

[Loonbeam]

As far as boarding the ship in SF, it's not a PVSA issue... The issue is that by port rules the ship would need to spin up embarkation systems just for you (like most US ports, the ports do not let the ships conduct their own embarkation by contract). Special approval can be gotten (for example due to a missed departure in LA) but even those have a cost and the line will not do it for a few passengers. Staff and crew are exempt.

[chengkp75]

Everything njhorseman has stated is correct. The only problem that boarding in San Juan could present is in the way that CBP handles the passenger manifest.

 

For closed loop cruises, CBP uses the ID information entered on the passenger manifest at embarkation to screen the passengers during the several days of the cruise. This is why they allow the BC/DL form of ID, as they have days to search records in various states. This also allows for the very casual CBP interview at disembarkation, as they have found out everything they want to know about you already.

 

When a passenger boards at a port other than the origination point of the cruise (downstream boarding), a new passenger manifest has to be prepared and submitted to CBP, with the associated cost. Because the downstream boarding port could conceivably be the last port before the end of the cruise, CBP no longer has the time to re-screen everyone, and so they treat the disembarkation interview as if it was a cruise originating in a foreign port (which the new manifest actually documents). This more intensive interview can cause delays on disembarkation. For this reason, over the last couple of years, cruise lines have been reluctant to approve downstream boarding or "upstream disembarking" (leaving early). If NCL says it is okay, get it in writing, as they will have to have CBP set up to screen the one passenger boarding in San Juan.

[zqvol]

Hello. Has anyone ever been able to board a ship at a port of call. Thinking about taking a Gem cruise from NYC in March, 2017, but daughter, who is a college student, wouldn't be able to join wife and I until ship made first port in San Juan. Is there a way around the Jones Act, that will allow NCL to let her board ( as a booked guest) in San Juan? My TA says it's not an easy thing to do. Spoke with my NCL PCC and they said it wouldn't be a problem. I'd sure appreciate some advice. Thank you.

 

I am amazed that your daughter would know here spring schedule for a year from now. I suspect that you are talking about the first cruise in March which leaves on a Thursday. Classes typically meet Monday - Wednesday - Friday or Tuesday - Thursday. Which means that shes is likely only going to miss one class meeting at most. Easy to do in college, and that is a much better solution instead of trying to board four days later.

[luvtheships]

I am amazed that your daughter would know here spring schedule for a year from now. I suspect that you are talking about the first cruise in March which leaves on a Thursday. Classes typically meet Monday - Wednesday - Friday or Tuesday - Thursday. Which means that shes is likely only going to miss one class meeting at most. Easy to do in college, and that is a much better solution instead of trying to board four days later.

 

 

Many colleges post a 4 year academic calendar on their website

 

Fwiw while you may be correct about the m/w/f. Tue/Thurs scheduling at many colleges you really have no idea if that is her routine or what her major requires or her school class requirements

 

And any good student is planning her classes out a year in advance due to prerequisites etc

 

The smart kids plan this out so there are no surprises

 

While I agree that a college kid can take days off if they choose and I posted such in post #10 above as an alternative for this poster I will draw the line on telling them what days the daughter SHOULD be having her classes. Lol

Edited May 3, 2016 by luvtheships

[cruisincorgi]

Thank you all for your responses. Thank you NJhorseman.

[herdingdogmom]

As far as boarding the ship in SF, it's not a PVSA issue... The issue is that by port rules the ship would need to spin up embarkation systems just for you (like most US ports, the ports do not let the ships conduct their own embarkation by contract). Special approval can be gotten (for example due to a missed departure in LA) but even those have a cost and the line will not do it for a few passengers. Staff and crew are exempt.

 

That is what I figured along with the info chengkp has provided in the past about the disembarkation interview process. I didn't press the issue at all, just thought the explanation given was inaccurate.

 

I'll just have to switch to another cruise line that begins the pacific coastal in San Francisco.

Edited May 4, 2016 by herdingdogmom

[NMLady]

I could be wrong but San Juan is a US territory so there should be no problem joining there.

 

Being US adds to problem since she would be cruising from a US port to a US port, NYC, not allowed under that itinerary.

[herdingdogmom]

Being US adds to problem since she would be cruising from a US port to a US port, NYC, not allowed under that itinerary.

 

See post #13 and others. Sounds like San Juan is an exception to the US port to US port restriction. I wish they would make more of these exceptions. Hopefully it will work out for the OP.

[chengkp75]

See post #13 and others. Sounds like San Juan is an exception to the US port to US port restriction. I wish they would make more of these exceptions. Hopefully it will work out for the OP.

 

The exemption for Puerto Rico took nearly 20 years to accomplish, with the active participation of the cruise industry and the Puerto Rican Congressional delegation. The exemption will also expire as soon as anyone starts a viable passenger service with a US flag vessel between Puerto Rico and the mainland. The cruise industry appears to be satisfied with the PVSA as it stands, since they have not made any further efforts to change or repeal it, unlike the annual efforts to repeal the Jones Act.