Jump to content
Cruise Critic Community

Possible missing passenger - Liberty

redstapler7

By redstapler7,
in Carnival Cruise Lines

 Share

Recommended Posts

Ms.Eva

Ms.Eva

Posted
Posted (edited)
Been following this thread since Friday, how sad. It's a shame she's lost her life, and left her husband and children to always kind of wonder what exactly happened and what was she thinking. I know it was reported that she sat on a railing and fell backwards. SO much speculation on here that maybe she drank to much. Why was she alone? In the end, none of it makes a difference. She did something stupid and unfortunately lost her life for it. We've all done stupid things, hindsight is 20/20. There is a lot of stupid stuff I've done, and looking back I think about how much of a different outcome there could've been. So regardless if she was drunk, suicidal, or just not thinking... a life was lost. Young kids now don't have their mother and a man is widowed. There seems to be a lot of arguing on this thread about this law and that law. Truth is, it just doesn't matter at the end of the day. She's gone and bickering and go back and forth about "woulda coulda shoulda's" won't bring her back. My thoughts and prayers are with her family, I hope they can find some sort of peace in all of this.

 

This is very true Jackie81, at the end of the day, a young woman lost her life.

Edited by Ms.Eva
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shallow1

shallow1

Posted
Posted
After the article there's a place where readers can post comments. It's nothing official.

 

Roz

OMG, why spread rumors on what someone probably with no knowledge commented?? If the blood/knife was not part of the original news article it should not be given credence!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
firemanbobswife

firemanbobswife

Posted
Posted
"Passenger:Blood stain found near where Broberg went overboard and knife found in trash nearby. Area roped off."

 

 

http://www.click2houston.com/news/woman-goes-missing-from-carnival-cruise-ship

 

 

That really could be anything including, but not limited to, a drink being spilled, someone fell down and cut themselves (head wounds are notorious for being messy), or vomiting. If it needed to be cleaned up, especially if it was a biohazard, they would rope the area off like that until they could get it properly cleaned up.

 

I would like to think that if it was a crime scene, then the authorities would have boarded when they docked and they would have cordoned off a larger area than that. Carnival did not mention foul play nor a knife. I doubt if they found one that they would announce it to passengers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
Its all about the dollar. They register in counties where they don't pay any tax or very little. The benefits mean nothing as a cost. To register a cruise ship in the US would run close to $100,000,000 in taxes, aprox 8% to 10% of the cost of the ship. Plus other taxes yearly and licences, assuming the ship is worth around a billion dollars. That is a large chunk of cash. Its all about the money.

 

Yes, its all about the dollar. All of the benefits of a flag of convenience that I mention save money. I'd be interested in seeing your source for the 8-10% "tax" involved in registering a cruise ship in the US. I'm a bit confused about the "tax" involved in ship registry. Do you mean that in order to be US flag, the ship must be owned by a US entity, and therefore subject to US taxes? From my research, and I admit I'm not a tax expert, the Alternative Tonnage Tax, passed in 2004, allows the income of a US flag vessel, engaged in foreign trade (a cruise ship visiting foreign ports), to be taxed at the highest corporate income tax rate (35%) on the notional shipping income of the vessel. This act was designed to "level the playing field" for US ships operating in foreign trade. For a ship the size of the Oasis of the Seas (and I am estimating her net tonnage to be 200,000 of her 225,000 gross tons) the income tax would be $57,000 per year. Here is a link to an article discussing the tonnage tax, and you can do the math from the data provided:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiXzvDJ6t7MAhUEWT4KHQ6ACzAQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blankrome.com%2FsiteFiles%2FPublications%2F870FDA4C3E72425D8756AE5CE437B280.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFDxsHYRm9vIKkaBvDxOwrJQ0m0LQ

 

There is a Marad study linked here, that studies the cost comparison between a foreign flag ship and a US flag ship (admittedly for cargo ships, not cruise ships). It states that the "overhead" of the vessels, of which registration fees are one of the costs, is 1.7 times higher for US flag than foreign flag, while at the same time, crew costs are 5.3 times higher for US flag than foreign flag, so to me it seems that one benefit of foreign flag, crew costs, is even larger than the benefit of registration.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjwxpKP397MAhUGVz4KHYDfDz8QFghUMAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marad.dot.gov%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fpdf%2FComparison_of_US_and_Foreign_Flag_Operating_Costs.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEIg9sIL_5yfM8WS6e0aKwCOTXQTg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Dore

Steve Dore

Posted
Posted
OMG, why spread rumors on what someone probably with no knowledge commented?? If the blood/knife was not part of the original news article it should not be given credence!!

 

It is part of the news article. The article references the Twitter post/picture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Dore

Steve Dore

Posted
Posted
That really could be anything including, but not limited to, a drink being spilled, someone fell down and cut themselves (head wounds are notorious for being messy), or vomiting. If it needed to be cleaned up, especially if it was a biohazard, they would rope the area off like that until they could get it properly cleaned up.

 

I would like to think that if it was a crime scene, then the authorities would have boarded when they docked and they would have cordoned off a larger area than that. Carnival did not mention foul play nor a knife. I doubt if they found one that they would announce it to passengers.

 

I'd like to believe the same thing, but something does not add up, but I won't go as far to start speculation because this is just to crazy to even try to. But the picture does reference the broken speaker that CCL mention the individual climbed on to get to the rail as well as what one of the first "eyewitness" posters mentioned in this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
firemanbobswife

firemanbobswife

Posted
Posted (edited)
I'd like to believe the same thing, but something does not add up, but I won't go as far to start speculation because this is just to crazy to even try to. But the picture does reference the broken speaker that CCL mention the individual climbed on to get to the rail as well as what one of the first "eyewitness" posters mentioned in this thread.

 

 

It could very well be a coincidence that someone fell or got sick or whatever in that same area. Remember that they didn't realize anything had happened until many hours later so that part of the deck had been open I'm pretty sure. I'm guessing it wasn't roped off until after she was reported missing and they reviewed the tape to pinpoint the spot she went over. Besides it looks fairly fresh and not like it's been sitting there for hours. It's not even near the railing. If she was stabbed, there should be a decent trail leading up to the rail. At least I would think so.

 

I'm not speculating either, I just don't believe everything I see online. There are plenty of people that purposefully put false info out there for attention or heard something and then spin it.

Edited by firemanbobswife
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Dore

Steve Dore

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm not speculating either, I just don't believe everything I see online. There are plenty of people that purposefully put false info out there for attention or heard something and then spin it.

 

I'm with you. I initially don't believe any of what people come back here and report because it seems like 90% of the time it's not accurate or a just a one-off experience. For example, one person gets a nice MDR waiter that does not charge their kid for a soda one evening. Person comes back and report it as soda is now free in the MDR.

Edited by Steve Dore
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cruzin-K

Cruzin-K

Posted
Posted

This thread just got a lot shorter :cool:

 

It all sounds to me like a terrible stupid accident. Climbing on the railing is never a good idea. :(

 

I feel sorry for her family.

 

 

 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

The entire article quoted deals with "foreign-flagged ships are not supposed to transport passengers from one U.S. port to another without stopping in a foreign country" which mentions the law from the 1830's, which is the PVSA. As I stated, in order to operate within the confines of the PVSA (able to carry a passenger from one US port to another, without a stop at a distant foreign port), the ship must be built in the US.

 

The article is not quite accurate in the next paragraph, where it says:

 

"To be classified as a U.S.-flagged ship, and therefore be able to travel between any U.S. ports, there is certain criterion:

 

The cruise ship must have been built, or born, in a U.S. shipyard.

The cruise ship must be staffed by U.S. crewmembers and paid based on U.S. minimum wage laws.

The cruise ship must be owned by a U.S. company. It must also be registered in the U.S."

 

Those are in fact the requirments to participate in the PVSA trade, as the term "able to travel between any US ports" states. However, to be "classified as a US -flagged ship" it only needs to be owned by a US entity, be registered in the US, and have a US crew.

 

Here is a link to a Congressional hearing from 2010, and in his opening comments, the Chairman, Congressman Oberstar from Minnesota, said this:

 

"The construction differential subsidy has been

eliminated and now all of the vessels currently sailing under

U.S. flag in the foreign trade were built overseas."

 

Here is the link:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiQpuvu-t7MAhVCw4MKHSqFBQkQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gpo.gov%2Ffdsys%2Fpkg%2FCHRG-111hhrg57560%2Fhtml%2FCHRG-111hhrg57560.htm&usg=AFQjCNEhkJjYCPoZcHaKJqQe5GQQ2Eqc-A

 

Further, CFR subpart 47.5 defines a US flag vessel capable of foreign trade as:

 

"“Privately owned U.S.-flag commercial vessel” means a vessel—

(1) Registered and operated under the laws of the United States,

(2) Used in commercial trade of the United States,

(3) Owned and operated by U.S. citizens, including a vessel under voyage or time charter to the Government, and

(4) A Government-owned vessel under bareboat charter to, and operated by, U.S. citizens."

 

And nowhere does it mention being built in the US.

 

Another example is Maersk Lines, whose US flag subsidiary operates the following ships, none of which were built in the US:

 

MAERSK ATLANTA

MAERSK CALIFORNIA

MAERSK CAROLINA

MAERSK CHICAGO

MAERSK COLUMBUS

MAERSK DENVER

MAERSK DETROIT

MAERSK HARTFORD

MAERSK IDAHO

MAERSK IOWA

MAERSK KENTUCKY

MAERSK KENSINGTON

MAERSK KINLOSS

MAERSK MEMPHIS

MAERSK MISSOURI

MAERSK MONTANA

MAERSK OHIO

MAERSK PITTSBURGH

MAERSK WISCONSIN

SAFMARINE NGAMI

Edited by chengkp75
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dave994

Dave994

Posted
Posted
This thread just got a lot shorter :cool:

 

It all sounds to me like a terrible stupid accident. Climbing on the railing is never a good idea. :(

 

I feel sorry for her family.

 

 

 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

 

I think there is more to this story that will come out in the upcoming days and weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
doneinne

doneinne

Posted
Posted
After the article there's a place where readers can post comments. It's nothing official.

 

 

 

Roz

 

"A returning passenger on the cruise told KPRC 2's Sofia Ojeda that a blood stain was found near the spot on the tenth deck where Broberg went overboard. The passenger also said a knife was found in the trash nearby."

 

 

--It was part of the news article, not after. A reporter was given the info.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lylone

lylone

Posted
Posted (edited)
Why was she alone? I cruise a lot as a solo, so unless my steward reported me as not having taken a shower or slept in my bed, who would know until debarkation day?

 

Even when I cruise with my sister, she sometimes stays out late in the casino, or gets up if she can't sleep and heads to the Lido with a book so she won't bother me. I wouldn't know she was gone or never came in until the next morning.

 

The fact that the lady was by herself doesn't seem strange to me at all.

 

Roz

 

Key words "if alcohol was involved" so do u walk around by yourself sloppy drunk on a cruise or allow your sister to go to the casino drunk.

I wouldn't leave my sisters side if she was alcohol impaired under any circumstances.

Edited by lylone
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hrhdhd

hrhdhd

Posted
Posted
Why was she alone? I cruise a lot as a solo, so unless my steward reported me as not having taken a shower or slept in my bed, who would know until debarkation day?

 

Even when I cruise with my sister, she sometimes stays out late in the casino, or gets up if she can't sleep and heads to the Lido with a book so she won't bother me. I wouldn't know she was gone or never came in until the next morning.

 

The fact that the lady was by herself doesn't seem strange to me at all.

 

Roz

 

Me, neither. As an introvert, I prefer being alone, and also travel as a solo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • Hurricane Zone 2024
      • Cruise Insurance Q&A w/ Steve Dasseos of Tripinsurancestore.com June 2024
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Cruise Critic News & Features
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...