What are my options? They might not go...

[leaveitallbehind]

We sold an out of state property we owned entirely through an attorney in the state the property was located, FedEx, and fax, and never appeared in the state of the property sale or in person to sign any of the documents. From direct experience it can be done, so perhaps examine this option to see if something similar could be arranged preserving the cruise. I would think any cost associated with this would be far less than the loss associated with cancelling the cruise.

Edited July 11, 2016 by leaveitallbehind

[flczr]

Why not just wait until they are back from the cruise?

[leaveitallbehind]

Why not just wait until they are back from the cruise?

 

If you read the OP's comments they may not have that option based on the current status of the property sale, especially if the closing date would fall in their cruise time frame. It would be up to the buyers to agree to a different or delayed date.

Edited July 11, 2016 by leaveitallbehind

[maureencruiser]

Two other people can go instead, just do a name change.

 

You CANNOT just transfer the reservation to two other people. If your parents have their own cabin, then at least one of their names must remain on the reservation.

 

Thanks, Mom, for correcting me. This is why I shouldn't post at 2am. :o

[troykahack]

We sold an out of state property we owned entirely through an attorney in the state the property was located, FedEx, and fax, and never appeared in the state of the property sale or in person to sign any of the documents. From direct experience it can be done, so perhaps examine this option to see if something similar could be arranged preserving the cruise. I would think any cost associated with this would be far less than the loss associated with cancelling the cruise.

 

If the closing deals with a Estate or Trust, living in this case, most Title Companies WILL NOT give a clean insured title, if not signed by all living parties. Power of Attorney is not recognized by many Title Companies. I guess they have been burned too many times. Has really nothing to do with closing, but the Title Insurance to the buyer.

[JVilleGal]

If the closing deals with a Estate or Trust, living in this case, most Title Companies WILL NOT give a clean insured title, if not signed by all living parties. Power of Attorney is not recognized by many Title Companies. I guess they have been burned too many times. Has really nothing to do with closing, but the Title Insurance to the buyer.

 

After 30 yrs in the business I can tell you that this statement is not true. The Title Company will want a full and complete copy of the Trust (or Living Trust as in a recent closing in our family) the Title Company WILL prepare a Specific Power of Attorney after examining the Trust Document. We probably close properties involving Trusts and Living Trusts a couple dozen times a month. For both the Buyers side and the Sellers (most common) side. Living Trusts are extremely common these days.

 

The OP just needs to discuss his needs with the Title Company & Escrow Officer closing his transaction. That is the only way to know what can be done in the particular situation. Normally these things can be worked out either by Over Nighting Documents, signing early, electronic signature or by the above mention POA that was approved and executed for the specific purpose of closing the sale on that property only (Specific Power of Attorney).

 

Every transaction is different seek the advice of your closing agent. The OP should enjoy this cruise with his entire family.

[loubetti]

Can they assign power of attorney specifically for this closing and let someone else attend the closing on their behalf?

 

Yes, they can, and it is done more often than you think. Example: I sold my last house without being at the closing, and I was 1100 miles away!

 

This is a simple solution. No need for name changes, insurance, etc. Any attorney can make this happen.

 

Even if a sale by owner, this can be done.

[JVilleGal]

Yes, they can, and it is done more often than you think. Example: I sold my last house without being at the closing, and I was 1100 miles away!

 

This is a simple solution. No need for name changes, insurance, etc. Any attorney can make this happen.

 

Even if a sale by owner, this can be done.

 

Remember the Title Co or Closing Agent needs to either prepare or "Approve" the POA being used to close any transaction they are being asked to insure.

[troykahack]

After 30 yrs in the business I can tell you that this statement is not true. The Title Company will want a full and complete copy of the Trust (or Living Trust as in a recent closing in our family) the Title Company WILL prepare a Specific Power of Attorney after examining the Trust Document. We probably close properties involving Trusts and Living Trusts a couple dozen times a month. For both the Buyers side and the Sellers (most common) side. Living Trusts are extremely common these days.

 

The OP just needs to discuss his needs with the Title Company & Escrow Officer closing his transaction. That is the only way to know what can be done in the particular situation. Normally these things can be worked out either by Over Nighting Documents, signing early, electronic signature or by the above mention POA that was approved and executed for the specific purpose of closing the sale on that property only (Specific Power of Attorney).

 

Every transaction is different seek the advice of your closing agent. The OP should enjoy this cruise with his entire family.

 

Maybe it depends who the Title Company one is using to insure the Title as clean and Un-encumbered. I have dealt with only two trusts closing from the seller side. On one, there were five parties on the Trust, all living, all living in sound mind. One was the Father, deceased and the Mother, living in a care facility, three sisters, two local to the closing location, and one sister in a different State. The two sisters that were local had Power of Attorney for both the Mother and other living sister.

 

We attempted to use POA for the signings but the Title Insurer would not certify the Title unless all living parties on the Trust signed in front of their certified Notary, not a general Notary, but one recognized by the insurer.

 

So, it did require all to sign the documents. The question was asked, if the Mother was capable of understanding the documents as she was into her 90's. However, this didn't become a real problem.

 

In both my cases, this Title Company the their Title Insurer would not permit a POA with living Trustees. I had heard their were other Title Co that would permit Specific POA's, but not this one. Our office has since used a different company for closing dealing with Trusts as these two became such a pain.

 

I am not saying this is the practice of all insurers, just in my case.

[JVilleGal]

Every situation is different. I can speak to Ticor Title, American Title and a few others. It also depends on the Trust it self. Speaking to the closing agent is the key. They will take a good look at the executed Trust Document. On occasion they will follow up with questions for the attorney who drew the Trust. In no case that I am familiar with can someone bring "just any POA" and expect to be able to sell or buy property.

[mollyeilis]

If in US, you do not need to attend "the closing." Have sold property in PA and bought and sold in FL without attending a closing with buyers/sellers. Parents should be able to close their side and then buyers/sellers close their side. Attorney/closing agent handled deal and most recent case, sellers closed by snail mail.

 

Yep. Sellers were in Texas and buyers (us) were in WA. We sat at our YMCA (time crunch with needing to be there for a class) with the notary, signing papers for an hour. No one else from the deal was there.

 

 

And we had been on a cruise during the inspection. I had my best friend go to the inspection; we had used her realtor, and they used the same inspector used for her house.

Edited July 13, 2016 by mollyeilis

[mollyeilis]

If you read the OP's comments they may not have that option based on the current status of the property sale, especially if the closing date would fall in their cruise time frame. It would be up to the buyers to agree to a different or delayed date.

 

And it's definitely worth asking the question of the other party! Does the other party want to go this far into it, only to say no because of a week's delay?

 

Maybe it depends who the Title Company one is using to insure the Title as clean and Un-encumbered. I have dealt with only two trusts closing from the seller side. On one, there were five parties on the Trust, all living, all living in sound mind. One was the Father, deceased and the Mother, living in a care facility, three sisters, two local to the closing location, and one sister in a different State. The two sisters that were local had Power of Attorney for both the Mother and other living sister.

 

We attempted to use POA for the signings but the Title Insurer would not certify the Title unless all living parties on the Trust signed in front of their certified Notary, not a general Notary, but one recognized by the insurer.

 

So, it did require all to sign the documents. The question was asked, if the Mother was capable of understanding the documents as she was into her 90's. However, this didn't become a real problem.

 

In both my cases, this Title Company the their Title Insurer would not permit a POA with living Trustees. I had heard their were other Title Co that would permit Specific POA's, but not this one. Our office has since used a different company for closing dealing with Trusts as these two became such a pain.

 

I am not saying this is the practice of all insurers, just in my case.

 

Well thank goodness. That's utterly ridiculous.

 

And if I recall correctly from our recent home-buying experience, we could have shopped around for a different title insurance company. So that group might have been able to do so, too.

 

That bit about the elderly woman..." The question was asked, if the Mother was capable of understanding the documents as she was into her 90's"...worries me. It sounds like you're saying that there was a POA for her because she wasn't able to take care of matters by herself, but that the insurance company MADE her be a part of it? That they bypassed the POA? And maybe fudged that she understood? Isn't that MORE of an insurance "danger" than using the POA???

[troykahack]

And it's definitely worth asking the question of the other party! Does the other party want to go this far into it, only to say no because of a week's delay?

 

 

 

Well thank goodness. That's utterly ridiculous.

 

And if I recall correctly from our recent home-buying experience, we could have shopped around for a different title insurance company. So that group might have been able to do so, too.

 

That bit about the elderly woman..." The question was asked, if the Mother was capable of understanding the documents as she was into her 90's"...worries me. It sounds like you're saying that there was a POA for her because she wasn't able to take care of matters by herself, but that the insurance company MADE her be a part of it? That they bypassed the POA? And maybe fudged that she understood? Isn't that MORE of an insurance "danger" than using the POA???

 

Yes, the sellers can choose any Title Co they wish. Generally, when it is to the point of signing, not sure you would want to delay for a new Title company to start all over. This was my first experience as this Title Co had just changed insurers.

 

The question about the Mother was brought up by one of the sisters, her daughter, and I did say she was in a care facility, meaning a full care nursing home. She did sign the documents. However, she had given two daughter her POA of all other actions. I think they were annoyed they had to go through all of this since they had POA and didn't want to bother her mother with it. In fact, it would have taken a ruling by a judge that she was incompetent for her not to sign.

 

I no longer practice real estate so don't quote me on this. I just thought, since the OP said it was an Estate, it may have involved a trust, and until one has dealt with one recently, things are changing (just like the C&A program). Had to get that last one in....

[leaveitallbehind]

If the closing deals with a Estate or Trust, living in this case, most Title Companies WILL NOT give a clean insured title, if not signed by all living parties. Power of Attorney is not recognized by many Title Companies. I guess they have been burned too many times. Has really nothing to do with closing, but the Title Insurance to the buyer.

 

I never said we didn't sign all required papers. We did and the sale was properly executed. I said we conducted the transaction out of state by way of an attorney, FedEx, and fax.

[NECruiser83]

And it's definitely worth asking the question of the other party! Does the other party want to go this far into it, only to say no because of a week's delay?

 

Depending on the buyers situation, it may not be up to them. Dealing with lenders and rate lock issues, they may have to close by a certain date or the loan will need to go back into UW. Also, if the date on the P&S is expiring, they would have to sign an extension, which legally they do not have to do

Edited July 13, 2016 by NECruiser83

[DebJ14]

If in US, you do not need to attend "the closing." Have sold property in PA and bought and sold in FL without attending a closing with buyers/sellers. Parents should be able to close their side and then buyers/sellers close their side. Attorney/closing agent handled deal and most recent case, sellers closed by snail mail.

 

THIS! My DS has been transferred from Houston to Dallas to NJ to Houston to Denver to Lexington Kentucky to Pittsburgh and back to Houston. Each one of these involved 2 long distance closings as he sold a house and bought in the new location each time. He and his wife never went in person to a closing. In 2 of the Houston closings they gave us the POA so we could sign for them. In Dallas they gave the POA to their attorney, In other cases the documents were Fedexed back and forth and in a couple of cases the documents were electronically signed with a password.

 

I would think that your parents would be able to get it worked out with the title company and still be able to cruise.

Edited July 14, 2016 by DebJ14

[troykahack]

I never said we didn't sign all required papers. We did and the sale was properly executed. I said we conducted the transaction out of state by way of an attorney, FedEx, and fax.

 

Ok. Got it. Understand. I suppose I was thinking Estate and/or Trust sales. It still would require a Notary only certified by the insurer. Doesn't matter if it was an attorney or not. But I get what you are saying. Trust me, Estates and Trust have become a bit different, depending on the Title Insurer.

[leaveitallbehind]

Ok. Got it. Understand. I suppose I was thinking Estate and/or Trust sales. It still would require a Notary only certified by the insurer. Doesn't matter if it was an attorney or not. But I get what you are saying. Trust me, Estates and Trust have become a bit different, depending on the Title Insurer.

 

Understand that as well. Ours was a simple out of state property sale transacted between us and a buyer.