High seas toilet flushing protocol - equal opportunity blame game

[SilvertoGold]

Another mechanical timer on the water valve.

 

Thanks! Fascinating subject, really.

Appreciate your willingness to share your vast knowledge and experience.

[OlsSalt]

Thank you also for this exceptional technical background. Seems to me with a system that is both so vulnerable to systematic misuse and so critical to passenger comfort and safety, HAL needs to do a lot more besides tack a little sign on the commode.

 

Far more likely we will run into toilet problems, most likely caused by other passengers, than running into ice-bergs or terrorists (gulp :() that will cause us a full scale life boat evacuation.

 

Yet we are required to attend an instructional life boat evacuation drill and not also be schooled in adequate on-board mechanics to make our stay a lot more pleasant for everyone.

[OlsSalt]

Taking the liberty to repost this list of items reported found in ship plumbing lines, it gives one pause when hearing the oft-complaint about on board malfunctioning toilets - 99% fellow passenger-generated problems:

 

Items found in the vacuum pipes:

 

1. diapers,

 

2. paper towels (long rolls of them),

 

3. feminine hygiene products (both types and including the applicators),

 

4. underwear (more common during noro outbreaks, you form your own picture),

 

5. swimwear,

 

6. facecloths,

 

7. hand towels,

 

8. dinner napkins,

 

9. crew uniforms,

 

10. crack pipes, coke spoons,

 

11. 6 rounds of 9mm ammunition.

Edited July 15, 2016 by OlsSalt

[SilvertoGold]

Thank you also for this exceptional technical background. Seems to me with a system that is both so vulnerable to systematic misuse and so critical to passenger comfort and safety, HAL needs to do a lot more besides tack a little sign on the commode.

 

Far more likely we will run into toilet problems, most likely caused by other passengers, than running into ice-bergs or terrorists (gulp :() that will cause us a full scale life boat evacuation.

 

Yet we are required to attend an instructional life boat evacuation drill and not also be schooled in adequate on-board mechanics to make our stay a lot more pleasant for everyone.

 

I agree that all pax should be made more much more aware about the mechanics and how-tos of ship toilet systems. My concern would be how to do this.

 

There are a lot of very immature people around, who will not read/listen and, I think, especially on vacation. The idea being that what they pay for is a perfectly working system or whatever, and why should they, the paying customer, have to do anything whatsoever.

 

Also, if HAL ups the information on how the toilets work, etc they could be giving the brain-dead, too-much-to-drink types or kids ideas about how to act out, make some mischief.

 

A difficult problem, absolutely. Is educating the pax deemed a waste of time?

 

Perhaps if the ships spent more money on the newbuilds installing 2 1/2 - 3 inch piping and vac pumps with larger motors, maybe it would make it easier on the crew and faster to fix these clogged toilet problems.

Edited July 15, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[OlsSalt]

There needs to be a "mandatory" passenger orientation program ... "You are on a ship now" ...... and then list the necessary behavior changes one must adhere, to compared to their life on land.

 

Three key areas I can think of: - (1) the necessary hand-washing needs and keeping one's fingers out of eyes, mouth and nose, (2) commode flushing protocols, and (3) balcony door ventilation system mechanics.

 

Since all of these represent areas that have impacts on fellow travelers they are now sharing a closed space with, everyone literally and figuratively need to be "on board".

 

This would be similar to the mandatory safety instruction on planes.

[SilvertoGold]

There needs to be a "mandatory" passenger orientation program ... "You are on a ship now" ...... and then list the necessary behavior changes one must adhere, to compared to their life on land.

 

Three key areas I can think of: - (1) the necessary hand-washing needs and keeping one's fingers out of eyes, mouth and nose, (2) commode flushing protocols, and (3) balcony door ventilation system mechanics.

 

Since all of these represent areas that have impacts on fellow travelers they are now sharing a closed space with, everyone literally and figuratively need to be "on board".

 

This would be similar to the mandatory safety instruction on planes.

 

Good ideas, excellent ideas! But, they rely on mature, intelligent people who understand the whys and wherefores of these programs. Dealing with human nature makes things like this very difficult.

 

From what I see onboard (talking during muster drill, grabbing and putting back bread rolls in the Lido, for example), I conclude that you can get some of the pax, some of the time educated and enlightened. But, I suppose that is better than nothing.

 

I don't want to argue, but when was the last time you noticed anyone giving the airplane "mandatory safety instruction" more than a passing glance? I read the brochure and watch the demo every flight, but I do not notice much interest in this and this is should be a BIG deal to plane pax.

 

I think it more up to the ships to build in a more pro-active way. Of course this would increase cruise pricing, but that is how it works.

[chengkp75]

I agree that all pax should be made more much more aware about the mechanics and how-tos of ship toilet systems. My concern would be how to do this.

 

There are a lot of very immature people around, who will not read/listen and, I think, especially on vacation. The idea being that what they pay for is a perfectly working system or whatever, and why should they, the paying customer, have to do anything whatsoever.

 

Also, if HAL ups the information on how the toilets work, etc they could be giving the brain-dead, too-much-to-drink types or kids ideas about how to act out, make some mischief.

 

A difficult problem, absolutely. Is educating the pax deemed a waste of time?

 

Perhaps if the ships spent more money on the newbuilds installing 2 1/2 - 3 inch piping and vac pumps with larger motors, maybe it would make it easier on the crew and faster to fix these clogged toilet problems.

 

Unfortunately, the mechanics of vacuum toilet systems does not allow for using larger size pipes. The product will not keep its form as a plug in the line to keep it moving. Even the current systems require a booster station to reform the plug if the length of pipe is too great. Believe me that the designers have studied non-uniform product flow in a vacuum using clear pipes. Yuck. What we have is about the most efficient system possible.

[OlsSalt]

Good ideas, excellent ideas! But, they rely on mature, intelligent people who understand the whys and wherefores of these programs. Dealing with human nature makes things like this very difficult.

 

From what I see onboard (talking during muster drill, grabbing and putting back bread rolls in the Lido, for example), I conclude that you can get some of the pax, some of the time educated and enlightened. But, I suppose that is better than nothing.

 

I don't want to argue, but when was the last time you noticed anyone giving the airplane "mandatory safety instruction" more than a passing glance? I read the brochure and watch the demo every flight, but I do not notice much interest in this and this is should be a BIG deal to plane pax.

 

I think it more up to the ships to build in a more pro-active way. Of course this would increase cruise pricing, but that is how it works.

 

I agree it is often an uphill battle against human nature. But also most ignore the airline safety instructions, because if you are frequent flier, you have them already memorized.

 

Their recent introduction of humorous visuals re-stimulated interest in the message to even the more jaded. But I also gather new flyers are interested the first few times, which is the key audience the ships also need to address.

 

Today's digital media can make this a very interesting and educational experience, just as we are witnessing following these highly informative technical posts.

 

I also noticed ships officers are starting to offer general information talks to passengers about their areas of expertise and are well attended. So the same "you are on a ship now" talk could also be an early offering in the show lounge or evening presentation - free drinks or something.

 

This is a closed system, ocean going, shared environment that is dressed up to look and feel like a land-based hotel and honestly once on board it is often easy to forget you are miles from the Roto-Rooter guy you might have on your speed dial at home. This sort of introductory talk could be the province of the Environmental Services officer because today's passengers are often committed to the goals of a healthy environment which I gather has required these changes to the vacuum waste evacuation systems and certainly ship energy uses that benefit from closed balcony doors not wasting A/C, as much as not disturbing the system for other guests on the same circuit.

 

You added another good point: mishandling of common access food items. If you touch it, don't put it back.

 

If we continue to show up for the introductory "Listen to the Music" on the first night in the show lounge, why not a short 2-3 PSA minute video "You are on a ship now" sort of orientation (yeah, just what we want to hear - toilet protocol - but it could be done tastefully with digital visuals of the ship's systems and how dropping even a wash cloth (we shall leave the etcs to one's imagination) can cause havoc up and down the line for your fellow passengers).

Edited July 15, 2016 by OlsSalt

[sppunk]

On our Rotterdam cruise in 2014, we couldn't use our toilet for 5/7 days because it'd never flush. They'd come "repair" it but it never got better. The button was like pushing in something with no tension whatsoever.

 

We used the public restrooms the entire trip because of this. We were on a corner aft cabin so it was quick down one flight to it, but it really sucked not being able to trust your own bathroom.

 

We never flushed anything inappropriate and our neighbors' toilets all worked. Any idea what could've caused that and yet it never get repaired despite at least 4 service attempts?

[chengkp75]

On our Rotterdam cruise in 2014, we couldn't use our toilet for 5/7 days because it'd never flush. They'd come "repair" it but it never got better. The button was like pushing in something with no tension whatsoever.

 

We used the public restrooms the entire trip because of this. We were on a corner aft cabin so it was quick down one flight to it, but it really sucked not being able to trust your own bathroom.

 

We never flushed anything inappropriate and our neighbors' toilets all worked. Any idea what could've caused that and yet it never get repaired despite at least 4 service attempts?

 

In this case, I'd have to blame the maintenance team. There are only three components to the toilet, and if changing these didn't work, then it was a clog or scale build up. Perhaps the guest before did something. Unless there was something really weird going on, there's no excuse for this.

[dogo88]

In this case, I'd have to blame the maintenance team. There are only three components to the toilet, and if changing these didn't work, then it was a clog or scale build up. Perhaps the guest before did something. Unless there was something really weird going on, there's no excuse for this.

 

What's the phrase? "Product happens"

[chengkp75]

What's the phrase? "Product happens"

 

It sure does, in vast quantity.:p

[SilvertoGold]

Unfortunately, the mechanics of vacuum toilet systems does not allow for using larger size pipes. The product will not keep its form as a plug in the line to keep it moving. Even the current systems require a booster station to reform the plug if the length of pipe is too great. Believe me that the designers have studied non-uniform product flow in a vacuum using clear pipes. Yuck. What we have is about the most efficient system possible.

 

That is interesting. I suggest larger piping because I cannot begin to image using a roto-rooter on a bend in a 2 inch pipe. That could be almost impossible.

 

How far apart are the clean-outs on a line? Have you ever had to cut a line to free up a clog?

[chengkp75]

That is interesting. I suggest larger piping because I cannot begin to image using a roto-rooter on a bend in a 2 inch pipe. That could be almost impossible.

 

How far apart are the clean-outs on a line? Have you ever had to cut a line to free up a clog?

 

Well, the elbows are longer radius then what you have in household plumbing, so a 2" cutter will eventually make it's way around. Yes, we've cut pipes. Being low pressure (very low pressure) they are just slip fit with a rubber seal.

[sppunk]

In this case, I'd have to blame the maintenance team. There are only three components to the toilet, and if changing these didn't work, then it was a clog or scale build up. Perhaps the guest before did something. Unless there was something really weird going on, there's no excuse for this.

 

It wasn't ideal. But it did get us $1,000 off our next HAL cruise! ;)