Art Auction on board

[tempus137]

Sorry to rain on your parade but your print has cost you 300% more. Its value is only what someone would pay you for it. If you can get $280 for it when you resell it then it has appreciated in value, otherwise its value is the price you get.

 

However, if you like it and it gives you pleasure then its value is priceless.

 

I guess I forgot to hit the /SARCASM button when I wrote the post.

[flipper32]

It is a scam. They prey on the general population that does not know much about art. And it is a stretch to call what they are auctioning art. Most is mass produced and created in a factory. The same "art" is on 200 ships at the same time. Save your money and buy from local artists.

 

First of all just because you don't like the look of something doesn't mean its not art. Jackson Pollock and Rembrandt are both artists and no one would ever confuse the two. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

A litho is art and its not original art, Marc Chaggall is considered one of the greatest artists ever and much of greatness come from lithography which is not original art and sells at Sotheby's and Christie's for six figures. Is some of the art on the ship low gicles? of course it is. What do you think you are buying for a few hundred dollars? There are absolutely high quality pieces available on most ships.

[Charles4515]

First of all just because you don't like the look of something doesn't mean its not art. Jackson Pollock and Rembrandt are both artists and no one would ever confuse the two. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

A litho is art and its not original art, Marc Chaggall is considered one of the greatest artists ever and much of greatness come from lithography which is not original art and sells at Sotheby's and Christie's for six figures. Is some of the art on the ship low gicles? of course it is. What do you think you are buying for a few hundred dollars? There are absolutely high quality pieces available on most ships.

 

 

 

What they auction at Sotheby's and Christie's is not the same as what is auctioned on cruise ships. What you are buying on cruise ships are basically Posters. Printed on ink jet printers in factories. That is not to say that posters don't have a place in decorating homes. But outfits like Park West prey on naive people who don't know the difference or some who don't want to know the difference.

 

 

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Edited August 19, 2016 by Charles4515

[flipper32]

What they auction at Sotheby's and Christie's is not the same as what is auctioned on cruise ships. What you are buying on cruise ships are basically Posters. Printed on ink jet printers in factories. That is not to say that posters don't have a place in decorating homes. But outfits like Park West prey on naive people who don't know the difference or some who don't want to know the difference.

 

 

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Do they sell giclees absolutely, but you are totally incorrect if you think there are not better quality pieces available on ships. They have originals available from many of their artists, they have etchings by artists like Durrer , they have high quality lithos available. The majority of what people buy on most ships is inexpensive ship ****, but they absolutely also sell higher end art

[goldfada]

The onboard art auctions would violate consumer protection laws in all 50 states and in many other countries. On sea days, maritime law applies.

[Laszlo]

Ahoy Matey! It all be legal as long as they gets their pieces of eight!

 

Was at an auction for a laugh.

Three bidders, who knows how many real ones of the three.

125...150...175...200...225...

...some silence...

...and the Auctioneer says "Good News! You can ALL win it at 225!"

 

 

There's a poster on here (Laszlo... sp?... Lazslo?) who posted detailed machinations of the Park West racket. Post is a few years old but well worth a read.

 

Thanks

 

I'll try and dig it up and repost the info.

 

In a nut shell Park West and other art warehouses are pretty much a racket, not all but most of what you see and buy are nothing but extremely over priced digital prints printed on high quilaty epson printers using paper or canvas for digital printers. I have gone to their art auctions just to see what they are selling. I've been told 3-4 times by the onboard art person what I'm looking at is a one off, an "Original" oil or watercolor. Then I take out my pocket loop and tell them your incorrect, its nothing more than a digital copy. They could have printed 1 or 100,000. Its funny how they don't want anything to do with me after that

 

With that said.......if you like something and can afford it, then buy it. Better yet, go to your towns local art dealer and buy something from them. Chances are you'll find a truly one of a kind print from a local artist

Edited August 19, 2016 by Laszlo

[April42749]

The bottom line is this.....

If you see something you like, buy it as long as it won't break the bank.

You're probably not getting a great deal and it definitely won't appreciate in value. But, more important, you'll have the memory of your trip.

 

DH saw something he liked in May on the BA, but didn't get it figuring I could find it for less (I am true bargain hunter) but I couldn't. Now he's kicking himself about not buying

[RDC1]

They happen sell Rembrandt etchings, and also sell Chagall lithos. I'm amazed at the posts here, its pretty clear most of the posters have never been to an auction, or have quickly walked thru, and have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Since you mentioned Rembrandt etchings, here is a brief description of the problem with a lot of what are sold as Rembrandt etchings. But believe what you will.

 

When Rembrandt died (in 1669), many of his plates had been cancelled or destroyed, but about 100 were intact. These generally worn plates were then used by others to make more prints, and as the plates became more worn, they were reworked, by successive re-touchers and restorers (their names include Watelet, then Basan, Jean, Bernard, Beaumont (we're now into the 20th Century!). The evolution of the plates, changes in the lines, reworkings, etc., are fairly well documented. Thousands of these prints (sometimes called re-strikes) are now on the market. Some are still being produced! In many cases they only vaguely resemble the compositions or details that Rembrandt had in mind. They never have the richness, or details, or subtleties of the lifetime impressions.

Traditionally (and still) considered nearly valueless by reputable dealers, Rembrandt restrikes now enjoy a new life on the market, largely due to the presence of huge numbers of internet buyers eager to obtain a real Rembrandt print. Some auction houses sell hundreds of these prints at a time; it's possible to sit through hours of Rembrandt lots, all with four or five figure sales (i.e, from about $1000 to 10,000 or sometimes more), without encountering a single lifetime impression in the sale.

 

Since you mentioned Chagall Lithos, you might want to read this article

http://www.artbusiness.com/arttarget.html

 

Many of the points made apply to the cruise ship art business. Especially the mark up of unsigned lithos

Edited August 19, 2016 by RDC1

[Laszlo]

Since you mentioned Rembrandt etchings, here is a brief description of the problem with a lot of what are sold as Rembrandt etchings. But believe what you will.

 

When Rembrandt died (in 1669), many of his plates had been cancelled or destroyed, but about 100 were intact. These generally worn plates were then used by others to make more prints, and as the plates became more worn, they were reworked, by successive re-touchers and restorers (their names include Watelet, then Basan, Jean, Bernard, Beaumont (we're now into the 20th Century!). The evolution of the plates, changes in the lines, reworkings, etc., are fairly well documented. Thousands of these prints (sometimes called re-strikes) are now on the market. Some are still being produced! In many cases they only vaguely resemble the compositions or details that Rembrandt had in mind. They never have the richness, or details, or subtleties of the lifetime impressions.

Traditionally (and still) considered nearly valueless by reputable dealers, Rembrandt restrikes now enjoy a new life on the market, largely due to the presence of huge numbers of internet buyers eager to obtain a real Rembrandt print. Some auction houses sell hundreds of these prints at a time; it's possible to sit through hours of Rembrandt lots, all with four or five figure sales (i.e, from about $1000 to 10,000 or sometimes more), without encountering a single lifetime impression in the sale.

 

Since you mentioned Chagall Lithos, you might want to read this article

http://www.artbusiness.com/arttarget.html

 

Many of the points made apply to the cruise ship art business. Especially the mark up of unsigned lithos

 

 

Great link...........The staff spots you the moment you step through the gallery door. They can tell by the way you dress and how you act whether or not you're an "art target," and how likely they are to sell you a piece of overpriced art. As strange as this sounds, it happens all the time. Seemingly fashionable art galleries train and employ sales associates to lie in wait, approach, and then sell highly overpriced art to unsuspecting victims who fit particular art-buying profiles. The more your art buying experience resembles what you're about to read, the more likely you are to have overpaid for your art.

[goldfada]

Sometimes it amazes me how people can post something with no knowledge at all. ParkWest also has auctions the same way on land across the US. The gift shop isnt open in port either I assume those $20 t shirts are also illegal. Sometimes a little knowledge is helpful before posting.

 

Park West does not conduct art auctions except on cruise ships in international waters. Check out their website.

[iheartbda]

I've been known to sit through some auctions since I wanted to hear what was being said about the works of art. Some things were true, other things exaggerated and some of it down right laughable. Had to keep my laughter pent up but did shake my head about some of the incredulous things I heard.

 

Years of undergraduate and graduate work in art just makes me crazy hearing and watching the auction productions. I maintain my sanity by avoiding them now and also look the other way when passing by all the set up works.:D

 

I'm always curious if people who buy on a cruise ever set foot in a gallery on land or, for some reason, only buy something on a ship.:confused:

 

As far as value going up, I concur with someone that it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay now. I also agree that if you love something buy it for the love. Do not buy thinking of it as an investment no matter what the auctioneer tries to tell you or, at least, infer.

[Ailscat]

We have bought many pieces from the auctions. We buy because we love the art and have never thought of them as investment. My advice if you see it and love it then buy it just to look at and admire. [emoji2]

 

 

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[gary222]

Oh my word - these art auctions sound completely mad and hilarious plus free champagne!! Would the Park West sales sharks take a very dim view of somebody turning up every auction, basically hamming it up drinking all the champagne on offer and becoming part of the show? Is it likely they could ban you from turning up or become hostile?

 

Ethically, where would that actually leave you - participating in an auction, acting a part purely for your own entertainment but inadvertently encouraging the recently widowed old lady to part with her life savings for something she she has been led to believe is worth 10x more than it actually is?

Edited August 20, 2016 by gary222

[Jana60]

Oh my word - these art auctions sound completely mad and hilarious plus free champagne!! Would the Park West sales sharks take a very dim view of somebody turning up every auction, basically hamming it up drinking all the champagne on offer and becoming part of the show? Is it likely they could ban you from turning up or become hostile?

 

Ethically, where would that actually leave you - participating in an auction, acting a part purely for your own entertainment but inadvertently encouraging the recently widowed old lady to part with her life savings for something she she has been led to believe is worth 10x more than it actually is?

 

When you're at an art auction you shouldn't ham it up at all. You might find that YOU have just bid for a $50,000 painting. They do have cameras to record the bidding and all bids are binding. So if you want to go and sit there and drink a glass of champagne that's fine but I wouldn't go waving your arms or anything.

[bobandsherry]

The stuff sold at shipboard auctions might appeal to individual tastes - and possibly serve as souvenirs of cruises; but since none of it is original - and very few, if any, pieces are reliably numbered limited reproductions - you will not see anything of collectible value.

 

Let me just say that your information is just flat wrong. By and large most of what they will bring out will not be limited editons. The reason being those that will attend the "auction" will not be the type who will write a check for an original. Additionally, with multiple shows week after week they don't want to mass handle originals, subjecting them to being damaged. However they do have, and will bring forward an original to the "auction" especially if asked/requested. I've attended several private showings on ships where you can see a collection of originals being offered including some by the Masters. Just ask and they will bring to their next auction/showing or negotiate in private but they prefer to being these to one of their auctions to be sold for the obvious reasons.

 

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[bobandsherry]

Actually they state up front that if the bid is lower than the minimum bid required for the particular art piece that a member of their staff will bid the minimum bid to bring the bid up to that price and if no one bids higher the item is not sold. They claim that this will only be done if the bid is below the minimum bid for the piece. So while this is technically shilling it is announced prior to the auction. I have found that it's better to discuss the price with them privately rather than even bidding. I was interested in a piece of art but it cost much more than I was willing to pay. In discussion with the Park West representative he finally asked me how much are you willing to pay. I told him how much and he said that's $200 lower than the lowest price I'm allowed to go down to. Lo and behold during the art auction they had a drawing for a discount on a work of art and I won a $200 coupon! Wasn't that a stroke of luck! LOL!!! But suffice it to say I received the work of art at the price I wanted to pay for it.

Yup, there little auction left to these, negotiation in private can usually get the best deal for more expensive pieces. Those who expect to find something for $19.99 will do better to go to Walmart and by a mass produced print.

 

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[mafig]

Oh my word - these art auctions sound completely mad and hilarious plus free champagne!! Would the Park West sales sharks take a very dim view of somebody turning up every auction, basically hamming it up drinking all the champagne on offer and becoming part of the show? Is it likely they could ban you from turning up or become hostile?

 

Ethically, where would that actually leave you - participating in an auction, acting a part purely for your own entertainment but inadvertently encouraging the recently widowed old lady to part with her life savings for something she she has been led to believe is worth 10x more than it actually is?

 

Seriously? Have you cruised before?

 

We went to one art auction (on Princess).

 

The champagne did not flow freely. Maybe half a glass every now and then.

 

It was not mad and hilarious. It was pretty boring. Unless you really want to bid on a piece I think you'll find there are much more interesting things to do on the ship at the time of the auction.

Edited August 20, 2016 by mafig

[Charles4515]

Seriously? Have you cruised before?

 

We went to one art auction (on Princess).

 

The champagne did not flow freely. Maybe half a glass every now and then.

 

It was not mad and hilarious. It was pretty boring. Unless you really want to bid on a piece I think you'll find there are much more interesting things to do on the ship at the time of the auction.

 

Gary is not serious. The post you quoted was clearly a troll post.

[mafig]

Gary is not serious. The post you quoted was clearly a troll post.

 

:DOK now I remember.

 

Maybe he thought it was easier going there to get a free drink than having to argue about the 75 cent gratuity he would have to pay at a bar.

[gary222]

Seriously? Have you cruised before?

 

We went to one art auction (on Princess).

 

The champagne did not flow freely. Maybe half a glass every now and then.

 

It was not mad and hilarious. It was pretty boring. Unless you really want to bid on a piece I think you'll find there are much more interesting things to do on the ship at the time of the auction.

 

Well from the comments here from people who've been to many of these auctions it's sounds good fun, exciting and quite a revelation plus you get some really good experience of international art auctions something many may not have have too experience of. You seem to be alone in having thought it boring and your comments come across as somewhat condescending to those that get great pleasure from events such as these...

 

Half a glass now and then? Well maybe you were too shy to ask for a more frequent top-up or maybe you weren't offered any more because you look bored and werent really contributing as you should have been to the event.

Edited August 20, 2016 by gary222

[Ailscat]

The auctions are fun and they try to involve everyone who has registered in mock bids etc. no one is forced to go, or buy. If you don't like it, don't go. But I would rather spend $1000 on beautiful art for my home than drink away $1000 and have nothing to show for it.

 

 

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[Charles4515]

The auctions are fun and they try to involve everyone who has registered in mock bids etc. no one is forced to go, or buy. If you don't like it, don't go. But I would rather spend $1000 on beautiful art for my home than drink away $1000 and have nothing to show for it.

 

 

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I will spend my $1000 on a painting by a local artist that is painted, not on a print sold on a cruise ship, that was printed on an ink jet printer in a print run of thousands of copies.

 

 

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[Ailscat]

Each to his own I say lol. I buy it because I love it. Who really cares in the end except yourself. [emoji6]

 

 

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[jingle5616]

The last time I attended one of these auction, if you can call it an auction, was on the Jade this spring. I walked in nearing the end of the session. A couple of people had gotten up to leave and the auctioneer actually threatened the remaining audience with no more raffle picks for free crap if anyone left the dining room. I and my friend scoffed in laughter and got up and left, then returned, sat down, and then left again a few minutes later for added emphasis. The debonair auctioneer gave us looks that could have killed. He was a first class douche. P.T. Barnum was correct.:eek:

[gary222]

The last time I attended one of these auction, if you can call it an auction, was on the Jade this spring. I walked in nearing the end of the session. A couple of people had gotten up to leave and the auctioneer actually threatened the remaining audience with no more raffle picks for free crap if anyone left the dining room. I and my friend scoffed in laughter and got up and left, then returned, sat down, and then left again a few minutes later for added emphasis. The debonair auctioneer gave us looks that could have killed. He was a first class douche. P.T. Barnum was correct.:eek:

 

Priceless!! 😂😂😂