Grand injured

[Colo Cruiser]

This might be just the perspective of the photo but ....

 

The door looks to me like it is swinging loose as I think I see water between the door and the hull

 

Plus, the door doesn't look like it's under the opening. To me it looks like it swung 180 on the short side. Is this door on the starboard side ... I might have missed that. If this is the starboard side, just the ship sailing forward could cause the door to swing aft.

 

And any comments on the hole in the red part of the ship on the right of the picture? Looks like torn sheet metal.

 

Just speculating here ...............

 

 

Look in the photo in post #116. The platform has the hinges at the bottom, it swings open from the top like a mailbox door not like a door you walk through that swings open from the side.

The water you see may be on the ship platform. Its not uncommon for water to get up in this area.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Colo Cruiser

[chengkp75]

This might be just the perspective of the photo but ....

 

The door looks to me like it is swinging loose as I think I see water between the door and the hull

 

Plus, the door doesn't look like it's under the opening. To me it looks like it swung 180 on the short side. Is this door on the starboard side ... I might have missed that. If this is the starboard side, just the ship sailing forward could cause the door to swing aft.

 

And any comments on the hole in the red part of the ship on the right of the picture? Looks like torn sheet metal.

 

Just speculating here ...............

 

I don't think the door has torn loose. There are two hinges, so to swing aft, one hinge would have to be torn completely off, and the other twisted 90*, and in that case, the door would not hang around there for long.

 

The tender opening is right above the door, the hydraulic cylinder is at one end (again not knowing forward from aft in the photo), but the opening goes up the picture from the hydraulic cylinder. There will be another cylinder above the picture at the other end of the door. You can see water laying in the tender port opening just above the cylinder.

 

I've been trying to determine what the orange/red thing in the photo is, not knowing where the photo was taken from, but it looks like fabric to me.

[azbirdmom]

Here's info on the planned drydock:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/princesscruisesfaq/ships/fleet-drydock-schedule

 

Routine - New carpeting and paint, new MUTS screen, Sabatinis remodel, new mattresses, Youth and Teen Center replaced with "Discovery Channel Activities Center".

[p_mori7]

And any comments on the hole in the red part of the ship on the right of the picture? Looks like torn sheet metal.

 

The orange in the picture is part of a lifeboat. The photo is taken from an elevation above and outboard of the lifeboat. it is much higher than the waterline.

 

Whoever took the picture is probably on a balcony above the lifeboat, stuck their arm out as far as they could, aimed their camera at an angle downwards; and snapped a few pics to try and get the shot.

Edited December 4, 2016 by p_mori7

[lstone19]

I am extremely surprised they are heading to Honolulu and not Hilo. From their present position as I write this, Hilo is 110nm closer than Honolulu. At 11 knots, that makes Hilo 10 hours closer (to see this, go to http://gcmap.com/ and enter 22.99245N 149.489W-HNL; 22.99245N 149.489W-ITO for the paths to be mapped - that will use the airports rather than marine ports but close enough at that distance).

 

As an airplane pilot, I am well aware of the concept of going to the "nearest suitable" when required. Years ago, an airline had a plane lose an engine three hours south of Hawaii. Being south, Hilo was the closest with Kona just a few miles further and Honolulu 150 miles farther. They went to Kona due to Hilo having terrain considerations that made it less suitable than Kona; Honolulu was never considered even though it would have been more convenient once on the ground as it made no sense to pass up a suitable airport and risk flying another 20 minutes just for convenience once on the ground.

[chengkp75]

The orange in the picture is part of a lifeboat. The photo is taken from an elevation above and outboard of the lifeboat. it is much higher than the waterline.

 

That's kind of what I thought, one of the "doors" of the lifeboats, but its a difficult perspective without knowing where the photo was taken from. A balcony?

[triptolemus]

 

I've been trying to determine what the orange/red thing in the photo is, not knowing where the photo was taken from, but it looks like fabric to me.

 

I think its a canvas cover of some sort on the lifeboats. See here:

 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5i3R5-TLaJU/maxresdefault.jpg

 

In that case, the pic was probably snapped on one of the balconies on deck 9.

[mrs and mrs]

Unlikely. They need the door to plug the hole when they get to Honolulu so the ship can return to the mainland. If it were otherwise the Grand wouldn't have turned around 600 or so nautical miles away from Honolulu to go back there.

 

Edit, sorry, I see that chengkp75 has already addressed this.

 

I would say all they need is a piece of plate steel to plug the hole, all the rams, water-tight integrity rubbers, seals etc, would have to be stripped out, even for the door to be welded back in place. The door is defunct, cactus, and would never be allowed to be used again in its normal role.. But the door is the right shape and size for the hole, that is if it hasn't been bent out of shape.:)

[ar1950]

I am extremely surprised they are heading to Honolulu and not Hilo. From their present position as I write this, Hilo is 110nm closer than Honolulu. At 11 knots, that makes Hilo 10 hours closer (to see this, go to http://gcmap.com/ and enter 22.99245N 149.489W-HNL; 22.99245N 149.489W-ITO for the paths to be mapped - that will use the airports rather than marine ports but close enough at that distance).

 

As an airplane pilot, I am well aware of the concept of going to the "nearest suitable" when required. Years ago, an airline had a plane lose an engine three hours south of Hawaii. Being south, Hilo was the closest with Kona just a few miles further and Honolulu 150 miles farther. They went to Kona due to Hilo having terrain considerations that made it less suitable than Kona; Honolulu was never considered even though it would have been more convenient once on the ground as it made no sense to pass up a suitable airport and risk flying another 20 minutes just for convenience once on the ground.

 

Likely that there are repair facilities in Honolulu that are not available in Hilo.

[p_mori7]

I am extremely surprised they are heading to Honolulu and not Hilo. From their present position as I write this, Hilo is 110nm closer than Honolulu. At 11 knots, that makes Hilo 10 hours closer

 

Sea state might be a factor in the chosen heading, to minimize water coming in through the gaping hole in the side of the ship.

[chengkp75]

I am extremely surprised they are heading to Honolulu and not Hilo. From their present position as I write this, Hilo is 110nm closer than Honolulu. At 11 knots, that makes Hilo 10 hours closer (to see this, go to http://gcmap.com/ and enter 22.99245N 149.489W-HNL; 22.99245N 149.489W-ITO for the paths to be mapped - that will use the airports rather than marine ports but close enough at that distance).

 

As an airplane pilot, I am well aware of the concept of going to the "nearest suitable" when required. Years ago, an airline had a plane lose an engine three hours south of Hawaii. Being south, Hilo was the closest with Kona just a few miles further and Honolulu 150 miles farther. They went to Kona due to Hilo having terrain considerations that made it less suitable than Kona; Honolulu was never considered even though it would have been more convenient once on the ground as it made no sense to pass up a suitable airport and risk flying another 20 minutes just for convenience once on the ground.

 

There is only one pier in Hilo, which is shared with Matson's container ships and NCL's Pride of America, Sause Bros. and Young Bros. barge services, so the berth might not be available when they estimate arrival.

[ar1950]

I would say all they need is a piece of plate steel to plug the hole, all the rams, water-tight integrity rubbers, seals etc, would have to be stripped out, even for the door to be welded back in place. The door is defunct, cactus, and would never be allowed to be used again in its normal role.. But the door is the right shape and size for the hole, that is if it hasn't been bent out of shape.:)

 

Read post #123 above. There is your answer from someone who knows what is what with ships.

[mrs and mrs]

Question for Cheng.

 

I'm having trouble deciphering this photo.

The hydraulic ram sticking out indicates the door has, been opened or fallen outboards.

My question is are there not manual dogging clips attached inside as further protection for the hatch not accidently being opened.

My memory eludes me on this fact, can you enlighten. :)Cheers.:)

[triptolemus]

Question for Cheng.

 

I'm having trouble deciphering this photo.

The hydraulic ram sticking out indicates the door has, been opened or fallen outboards.

My question is are there not manual dogging clips attached inside as further protection for the hatch not accidently being opened.

My memory eludes me on this fact, can you enlighten. :)Cheers.:)

 

He already did. Post #41 and beyond.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2428633&page=3

[mrs and mrs]

Read post #123 above. There is your answer from someone who knows what is what with ships.

 

Thank-you I'm sure cheng knows what I'm talking about, and has answered me appropriately, as an ex naval marine welder, and through working in dry-docks, I'm fairly well versed in what is required, and as always I revert to chengs superior knowledge,but once again thank-you teacher.

[mrs and mrs]

He already did. Post #41 and beyond.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2428633&page=3

 

 

 

I'm sorry I see no mention of manual dogging clips, if you would be so kind as to point them out.

In the meantime, ill wait for chengs response. Once again thank-you and sorry for busting in on your thread and conversations.

Actually while we are waiting maybe you can explain to me what a manual dogging clip is, and its function.:)

[triptolemus]

I'm sorry I see no mention of manual dogging clips,

 

I don't either. No need for the self-righteous snark.

 

It's called a conversation.

[Colo Cruiser]

I'm sorry I see no mention of manual dogging clips, if you would be so kind as to point them out.

In the meantime, ill wait for chengs response. Once again thank-you and sorry for busting in on your thread and conversations.

Actually while we are waiting maybe you can explain to me what a manual dogging clip is, and its function.:)

 

 

 

I don't follow the schedules or posts about them in these threads completely, but am I correct that the ship was due for shipyard upon return to SF after this cruise on the 8th? If that is correct, then the yard period may slip some, running a few days late, since she won't get back to SF by the 8th. Whether they can accomplish everything in a shortened time frame isn't knowable without knowing what they were originally intending. Yes, they can start demo work on the way back with an empty ship, but the new materials are in SF, and the technical end of things, in particular the time required to paint the bottom is what drives a shipyard schedule.

 

One other thing that gets me, because this is a watertight door on the hull, it must have a "closed and locked" indication on the bridge. This is done using proximity sensors, usually one at each end to show the door is closed, and then one at each locking mechanism location to show all the locks are properly closed. Without all sensors showing closed, the bridge will have an "open" indication on the door, so the moment the first locking ram came loose, crew should have been dispatched to find out what the problem was long before the door fell out.

 

 

Under normal circumstances they are hydraulically operated.

[mrs and mrs]

Apologies all round, and sincere.

[ar1950]

I'm sorry I see no mention of manual dogging clips, if you would be so kind as to point them out.

In the meantime, ill wait for chengs response. Once again thank-you and sorry for busting in on your thread and conversations.

Actually while we are waiting maybe you can explain to me what a manual dogging clip is, and its function.:)

 

I watch The Deadliest Catch so I know what "dogging clips" are. Although, I think the ones used to secure the crab pots are actually hydraulically operated, but, none the less, they are there to do the job that manual ones would otherwise do. Like what is described in post #41 perhaps?

 

Edit: Sorry I see others have already addressed this issue.

Edited December 4, 2016 by ar1950

[mrs and mrs]

Hey guys all I'm trying to ask is are there manually dogging clips, as a last fail-safe function against the hydraulic system defuncting.

 

Cheers Colo and A.R

 

There is a reason for asking, and a few will get it.

 

There is a lot more in this than initially meets the eye.

[mrs and mrs]

These or similar.

[triptolemus]

 

There is a reason for asking, and a few will get it.

 

.

 

Why not enlighten the group?

[chengkp75]

Thank-you I'm sure cheng knows what I'm talking about, and has answered me appropriately, as an ex naval marine welder, and through working in dry-docks, I'm fairly well versed in what is required, and as always I revert to chengs superior knowledge,but once again thank-you teacher.

 

I'm getting a little lost in what I've posted on which of the three threads (two on Princess and one on HAL forums). Some of these doors have mechanical locking devices, but given the shape of the door and the opening behind it, where about half the door is not accessible when closed (just enough space for the framing and the rams), this door most likely has hydraulic locking rams. This is what bothers me, is that no class society in the world would approve a door that relies only on one set of hydraulic rams to keep the door closed, it would require manual dogs or locking rams. The system would also have to have switches that would indicate the door in the closed position and the locks in the locked position before the "green" "good to go" light would indicate on the bridge. Without this green light, the ship should not have sailed, and when any one of the lock bars moved out of position the light would have changed to red, and an alarm sounded, and someone should have been dispatched to check the door long before it failed and fell outboard.

[ar1950]

Hey guys all I'm trying to ask is are there manually dogging clips, as a last fail-safe function against the hydraulic system defuncting.

 

Cheers Colo and A.R

 

There is a reason for asking, and a few will get it.

 

There is a lot more in this than initially meets the eye.

 

My guess is there are no manual clips. I get why you ask. Kind of like a cable operated parking brake on a car. Redundant hydraulic systems (like dual circuit brake systems on cars) are usually very reliable. I too am curious now if there is any manual backup system on the ship doors and, if not, why not. Too much confidence in the hydraulic systems maybe?

 

Edit: Thanks again Chief for the good info.

Edited December 4, 2016 by ar1950