Tax on drinks in port in Southampton

[samshltn]

I suspect this has been dealt with.../quote]

 

I certainly hope so. BMWMan, you sound like you know what you're talking about. What would you do in the following hypothetical situation:

 

You've bought the cruise in the UK.

The cruise is from Southampton to Hamburg.

The cruise line has told you there's no VAT to pay.

The cruise line presents you with a bill for VAT at the end of your cruise.

(For the purposes of this exercise, please assume that, like me, you are an incredibly stingy and argumentative individual who would fight a tramp for a pound coin and then argue with him about how many sides it had.)

[ExpatBride]

I find this VAT situation very confusing. When I sailed the Epic in the Western Med. last year, I was under the impression that consuming beverages with the UBP in some ports would be subject to VAT, but I was never charged. Not that I'm complaining. I'll likely be in Southhampton on the Jade this summer and hope my winning streak continues. Living in Europe as an American, even after 7 years, 20+% VAT is still difficult to swallow.

[$hip$hape]

Whether VAT will apply on drinks consumed under a promo UBP or purchased UBP,

or part of the new UK AI scheme......who knows.

I don't understand the Al scheme ? What's an Al scheme?

http://www.percheron.org.uk/about/ai/

What does the Al scheme have to do with cruising!? :evilsmile:

[Froggitt]

I don't understand the Al scheme ? What's an Al scheme?

http://www.percheron.org.uk/about/ai/

What does the Al scheme have to do with cruising!? :evilsmile:

All Inclusive

[Froggitt]

I find this VAT situation very confusing. When I sailed the Epic in the Western Med. last year, I was under the impression that consuming beverages with the UBP in some ports would be subject to VAT, but I was never charged. Not that I'm complaining. I'll likely be in Southhampton on the Jade this summer and hope my winning streak continues. Living in Europe as an American, even after 7 years, 20+% VAT is still difficult to swallow.

So, I say potato, you say pertarto.

 

In UK and Europe, it is against the law to show prices to consumers excluding VAT. So the prices you generally see in shops and online are inclusive of VAT.

 

Conversely in America, a 15%-20% tip in a restaurant is pretty much mandatory, again in the UK the waitstaff generally get paid better compared to the US. So that US tip, as with your VAT, is similarly alien.

 

I am not sure how NCL get away with not showing inc-VAT prices when in the UK or Europe. I totally understand they don't want to faff around with putting out different drinks menus at different times.

[jaxw17]

So, I say potato, you say pertarto.

 

In UK and Europe, it is against the law to show prices to consumers excluding VAT. So the prices you generally see in shops and online are inclusive of VAT.

 

Conversely in America, a 15%-20% tip in a restaurant is pretty much mandatory, again in the UK the waitstaff generally get paid better compared to the US. So that US tip, as with your VAT, is similarly alien.

 

I am not sure how NCL get away with not showing inc-VAT prices when in the UK or Europe. I totally understand they don't want to faff around with putting out different drinks menus at different times.

yes i was going to mention that if you are in Southampton you won't be expected to tip or anywhere in the UK for that matter

[ExpatBride]

So, I say potato, you say pertarto.

 

In UK and Europe, it is against the law to show prices to consumers excluding VAT. So the prices you generally see in shops and online are inclusive of VAT.

 

Conversely in America, a 15%-20% tip in a restaurant is pretty much mandatory, again in the UK the waitstaff generally get paid better compared to the US. So that US tip, as with your VAT, is similarly alien.

 

I am not sure how NCL get away with not showing inc-VAT prices when in the UK or Europe. I totally understand they don't want to faff around with putting out different drinks menus at different times.

 

Like I said, I've lived here (in Europe`) for 7 years. I get how VAT works. However on NCL its application doesn't seem consistent or in line with what they say will happen.

[$hip$hape]

yes i was going to mention that if you are in Southampton you won't be expected to tip or anywhere in the UK for that matter

 

Like I said, I've lived here (in Europe`) for 7 years. I get how VAT works. However on NCL its application doesn't seem consistent or in line with what they say will happen.

For our upcoming transatlantic cruise on the NCL Bliss, being from the USA, would one be better off to

"tie one on" the night before, at a sail-away party, let's say at the Duke of Wellington in Southampton,

then, wait until we are in international waters to enjoy the the benefits of the Ultimate Beverage Package (UBP) ?

Edited April 14, 2017 by $hip$hape

[bmwman]

I suspect this has been dealt with.../quote]

 

I certainly hope so. BMWMan, you sound like you know what you're talking about. What would you do in the following hypothetical situation:

 

You've bought the cruise in the UK.

The cruise is from Southampton to Hamburg.

The cruise line has told you there's no VAT to pay.

The cruise line presents you with a bill for VAT at the end of your cruise.

(For the purposes of this exercise, please assume that, like me, you are an incredibly stingy and argumentative individual who would fight a tramp for a pound coin and then argue with him about how many sides it had.)

 

Thank you - when it comes to VAT would like to think I know.

 

Not such a hypo question I think we are on that cruise in June !!

 

My own feeling is this a contract law point. They have told you there would not be VAT however there is. VAt is charged correctly according to law.

 

I would have no choice to pay it on board (unless you could convince Guest Services to not collect it and in effect bear the cost themselves.

 

I would then on my return take it with NCL and argue they varied the contract.

 

I think you will be on a sticky wicket as they would say that it made no difference to your decision to go and that on presentation of the first till receipt you knew VAT was being charged and could have stopped buying.

 

Sure it spoilt your enjoyment of the short cruise and that it was your agrument is loss of enjoyment due to unforeseen costs.

[bmwman]

Like I said, I've lived here (in Europe`) for 7 years. I get how VAT works. However on NCL its application doesn't seem consistent or in line with what they say will happen.

 

As I say unless you work in the highest areas of VAT policy you will never know if the UK have agreed (within the law) a special application. VAT in UK is applied very differently to Denmark. The interpretation of the EC directives especially.

 

Also the VAT law is not quite as you say in UK You are allowed for non retail business to advertise prices without VAT (B2B)

[ExpatBride]

As I say unless you work in the highest areas of VAT policy you will never know if the UK have agreed (within the law) a special application. VAT in UK is applied very differently to Denmark. The interpretation of the EC directives especially.

 

Also the VAT law is not quite as you say in UK You are allowed for non retail business to advertise prices without VAT (B2B)

 

My husband is from the UK and I'm a business owner who does business in the UK. I'm aware of the B2B and B2C distinction and the differences in VAT policy between the different countries, but none of that explains my experience with VAT being charged (or not) on NCL while docked in certain ports.

[ctnurse]

On our DCL Western Med cruise last summer, there was a disclaimer on the bottom of all the menus that VAT had been added to the menu for our convenience. ;) I know it isn't NCL, but I thought that I would put that out there.

[Ergates The Ant]

The only time I have seen any extra payment applied on cruises out of the UK, is some tax applied to drinks while the ship is docked in Spanish ports. This was clearly stated in the daily What's On / ship newsletter. I do not remember seeing anything relating to VAT for drinks purchased on board before we left Southampton. Usually any taxes have been included in the drink prices for the exUK cruises I have been on ( Celebrity, Princess and P and O)

Can any CC members who have taken a round Britain NCL Cruise, remember what applied then, as this would presumably be relevant in quite a few ports?

[bmwman]

My husband is from the UK and I'm a business owner who does business in the UK. I'm aware of the B2B and B2C distinction and the differences in VAT policy between the different countries, but none of that explains my experience with VAT being charged (or not) on NCL while docked in certain ports.

 

"you do business in the UK" I accept that but UK international VAT is very different from Denmark in fact some EU directives have been interpreted very differently. Different countries have different VAT rules. For instance Spain enforces the rule since 2008 with great vigour.

 

I think it is clear why different rules apply in different ports

[bmwman]

The only time I have seen any extra payment applied on cruises out of the UK, is some tax applied to drinks while the ship is docked in Spanish ports. This was clearly stated in the daily What's On / ship newsletter. I do not remember seeing anything relating to VAT for drinks purchased on board before we left Southampton. Usually any taxes have been included in the drink prices for the exUK cruises I have been on ( Celebrity, Princess and P and O)

Can any CC members who have taken a round Britain NCL Cruise, remember what applied then, as this would presumably be relevant in quite a few ports?

 

UK VAT all the way!

[ExpatBride]

For instance Spain enforces the rule since 2008 with great vigour.

 

Then why didn't I pay VAT on beverages in port in Barcelona or Mallorca in 2016? That's what I find so puzzling.

[$hip$hape]

For our upcoming transatlantic cruise on the NCL Bliss, being from the USA, would one be better off to

"tie one on" the night before, at a sail-away party, let's say at the Duke of Wellington in Southampton,

then, wait until we are in international waters to enjoy the the benefits of the Ultimate Beverage Package (UBP) ?

 

UK VAT all the way!

So I ask again...

If we are in a bar in Southampton, where the drinks are less costly, there is NO VAT (?) ,

and only once we are on the Ship that we pay a Value Added Tax until in international waters?

 

I know that once we reach New York City,

the ship's bars will be closed (on the last day for disembarkation), so no drinks and no taxes in the USA.

Edited April 15, 2017 by $hip$hape

[Blondie008]

Then why didn't I pay VAT on beverages in port in Barcelona or Mallorca in 2016? That's what I find so puzzling.

 

Don't know - but for sure we were charged ex Barcelona and a number of other ports. As I say, we were refunded once home as I queried it and suspected NCL were operating somewhat outside the box - perhaps some ships were charging and some weren't - all very random... :confused:

[samshltn]

If we are in a bar in Southampton, where the drinks are less costly, there is NO VAT?

 

When you drink in a bar in Southampton, you'll be paying VAT at 20%. This cost is included in the prices of the drinks.

 

 

 

Sent from my LG-H815 using Forums mobile app

[$hip$hape]

When you drink in a bar in Southampton, you'll be paying VAT at 20%. This cost is included in the prices of the drinks.

That's what I thought.

However, me thinks Southampton bars won't be asking the equivalent of $15.00 USD per drink

when they add the VAT, as NCL does.

 

However, I find that most pax, such as I, will end up going with the flow.

It's the lure of the "free" drinks with the Ultimate Beverage Package UBP.

After a few drinks, who cares how much tax is added on.

On our last cruise, leaving NYC for the Caribbean, we probably has more drinks, still within the TAX area of NY State, than on the rest of the cruise. :cool:

[Froggitt]

That's what I thought.

However, me thinks Southampton bars won't be asking the equivalent of $15.00 USD per drink

when they add the VAT, as NCL does.

 

However, I find that most pax, such as I, will end up going with the flow.

It's the lure of the "free" drinks with the Ultimate Beverage Package UBP.

After a few drinks, who cares how much tax is added on.

With the lure of the UBP, no VAT (probably) will be added to your drink in port or UK waters out of Southampton.

[bmwman]

Then why didn't I pay VAT on beverages in port in Barcelona or Mallorca in 2016? That's what I find so puzzling.

 

Ok here the answer

 

Majorca is like the canaries and not part of the Spanish VAT regime

 

Where was your cruise from Barcelona going . did it dock at any port outside of the EU. What was the ships final destination.

[bmwman]

Don't know - but for sure we were charged ex Barcelona and a number of other ports. As I say, we were refunded once home as I queried it and suspected NCL were operating somewhat outside the box - perhaps some ships were charging and some weren't - all very random... :confused:

 

You were refunded on goods and services?

 

Any VAT you pay on-board subject to various de minimius limits for Goods can be refunded if you are a non EU citizen.

 

This is going to be very strange from Match 19 when UK leave EU :confused:

[Blondie008]

You were refunded on goods and services?

 

Any VAT you pay on-board subject to various de minimius limits for Goods can be refunded if you are a non EU citizen.

 

This is going to be very strange from Match 19 when UK leave EU :confused:

 

I was refunded on sales tax from ports which did not include UK - ie Spain, USA etc etc - as it was not something that was in our T&Cs. So - all drinks we consumed on our UBP - were subject to sales tax from various ports (NOT UK!) - and I queried it.

We were refunded by NCL.

We did TWO cruises with Celebrity within the 12 months prior, and indeed one NCL, and were never charged this sales tax - so yes, it bothered me. As a business woman I look after my pennies - and don't mind paying where and when it is due - but on this cruise -no - we were not forewarned and there was nothing in T&Cs at the time.

Hence why they very quickly refunded us - as I believe they did many who were in "the same boat".

[bmwman]

I was refunded on sales tax from ports which did not include UK - ie Spain, USA etc etc - as it was not something that was in our T&Cs. So - all drinks we consumed on our UBP - were subject to sales tax from various ports (NOT UK!) - and I queried it.

We were refunded by NCL.

We did TWO cruises with Celebrity within the 12 months prior, and indeed one NCL, and were never charged this sales tax - so yes, it bothered me. As a business woman I look after my pennies - and don't mind paying where and when it is due - but on this cruise -no - we were not forewarned and there was nothing in T&Cs at the time.

Hence why they very quickly refunded us - as I believe they did many who were in "the same boat".

 

I am sorry but I do not understand the issue. T & C do not affect VAT. T&C can never override lawful taxes. If you are in business you will know that VAT is a governmental charge and the T & C are absolutely irrelevant. Let me be precise if have an UBP there is no tax payable in Europe full stop. This is a specialist area I advise on.

 

It make no difference about prior cruises these are not relevant. Thereare so many factors to consider and there have been many changes to VAT over the years.

 

It is simple as you say NCL seem to have got it wrong