First Time Cruise Problem

[lizwil10]

How do you suggest they find the "creep" without questioning people that fit the description?

 

Reimbursed? Give me a break.

 

He was questioned, not accused of doing anything.

 

 

ewww. Today is too nice to internet fight.

[Cruise or Lose!]

He was accused of inappropriate behaviour toward a MINOR. I wouldn't let a cruiseline, or any other business, get away with making such a serious accusation about me. No way in hell would I let that go. And I'm a huge supporter of any type of law enforcement.

 

 

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[Ocean Dancer]

He was accused of inappropriate behaviour toward a MINOR. I wouldn't let a cruiseline, or any other business, get away with making such a serious accusation about me. No way in hell would I let that go. And I'm a huge supporter of any type of law enforcement.

 

 

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The OP was NOT accused of anything, reread his post.

 

As I and several others said to OP

 

"Welcome to Cruise Critic"

 

This is want I meant. :evilsmile::cool:

[BonnieSte]

I guess the way they handled it is my problem. Instead of calling me, vaguely summoning me to guest services, surrounding me with security in front of guest services (with a lot of fellow passengers around) and asking me to go to some secret room, which super sketched me out and made me look like I did something wrong to all those people who saw... could they not have simply knocked on my door and talked to me there in private?

 

 

I completely agree with this. They should have been more discrete about it.

[Cruise or Lose!]

The OP was NOT accused of anything, reread his post.

 

 

 

As I and several others said to OP

 

 

 

"Welcome to Cruise Critic"

 

 

 

This is want I meant. :evilsmile::cool:

 

 

 

I'm well aware of the fact that most first-time posters seek drama. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

 

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[jib614]

I am SO tired of OP and myself and people like us having our opinions immediately discounted because we are childless. Newsflash - kids lie. Frequently. To get themselves out of trouble, or to get attention. Of course security was right to investigate. You always do, even if you completely disbelieve the child's version of events. But the OP has rights too. One of those rights is to be informed of the nature of the accusations.

The mere fact that there is a child involved does not invalidate his Constitutional guarantees.

 

Parents like some of you make me dislike children. No one else matters. No one else

[LA_CA_GAL]

 

Over *words*???

 

 

"Words" from an adult to a minor child deemed inappropriate requiring an investigation by security?

 

Absolutely!

[jib614]

I am SO tired of OP and myself and people like us having our opinions immediately discounted because we are childless. Newsflash - kids lie. Frequently. To get themselves out of trouble, or to get attention. Of course security was right to investigate. You always do, even if you completely disbelieve the child's version of events. But the OP has rights too. One of those rights is to be informed of the nature of the accusations.

The mere fact that there is a child involved does not invalidate his Constitutional guarantees.

 

Parents like some of you make me dislike children. No one else matters. No one else

I don't see how having a child or not makes a difference here. If this was a child or adult, regardless, they need to investigate! Being a child makes it that much more alarming imo.

 

The security did their job. They investigated, questioned and released. They handled it the same way any police dept would handle it. And detaining him in public was obviously for safety reasons.

[Host Jacquelyn]

First, I've been on 45 cruises and not only has anything like that never happened to me, I've also never witnessed anything like that happening to any other passenger...so I believe it is a rare occurrence and should not deter you from cruising again.

 

That said, being questioned by security...or police...in connection with the investigation of a crime MAY happen anywhere, at any time...on a cruise, on vacation, even at home. I am certain that it is never a pleasant experience. But, OTOH, we want our police or any other law enforcement to be diligent and thorough. Cruise lines have taken a lot of flak in the past over some lax security on board. They don't want any more stories about someone reporting some sort of assault or abuse being ignored by the cruise ship. Summoning someone to guest services is likely much safer for the investigating crew member than trying to visit someone in their cabin. The fact that you were questioned and quickly cleared is probably about as good an outcome as can be expected. Better than being detained for a long period or being removed from the ship or being turned over to authorities on land--especially in a foreign country. Sounds as if they did the necessary questioning and nothing more. Yes, they might have ALSO checked camera footage, checked magnetic card records, etc. and they may have actually done that as well...but, direct questioning would have to still be part of any thorough investigation.

 

As to showing you photos of other persons of interests or sharing any other part of the investigation with you, realize that NO police force does that. You would have a right to see all that only if charges were filed--then your attorneys would be able to acquire all of that under the "discovery" rules as trial preparation. But, during an investigation, that isn't public record--and for good reason. Just think, you would not want security to be sharing YOUR photo and personal information with others they might be questioning.

 

It is unfortunate that this incident occurred during your cruise and that the incident was unpleasant...but the best way to handle this or any similar event is to brush it off and move forward with enjoying your cruise. Sure, you can write letters to the cruise line or complain to Guest Services...and, MAYBE, they compensate you with a free specialty restaurant dinner or a bottle of cheap champagne as a PR gesture...but, really, they owe you nothing. It is just Security properly doing its job. As passengers, we actually WANT Security to do its job. We don't want them to be deterred from investigating and acting when WE report an incident. We don't want victims to be deterred from reporting crimes. If you or your spouse were raped or assaulted or your child was raped, assaulted or molested, you would want whatever security or police force involved to turn over every possible stone in trying to solve the case. If an incident occurred on a ship you were on, wouldn't you rather there be a thorough investigation rather than a security force that just brushes it under the rug? Remember, if there is a perpetrator out there and they are not found, they could act again.

 

Amen to everything you said. Fantastic post.

[LA_CA_GAL]

...

The mere fact that there is a child involved does not invalidate his Constitutional guarantees.

 

 

When sailing outside of the USA there are no "Constitutional guarantees".

[jetta8300]

He was accused of inappropriate behaviour toward a MINOR. I wouldn't let a cruiseline, or any other business, get away with making such a serious accusation about me. No way in hell would I let that go. And I'm a huge supporter of any type of law enforcement.

 

 

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He was NEVER accused. There was no accusation. Pease read the post again. The OP said they asked him to come to guest services, which a few people took him to a PRIVATE location and asked a few questions. That's all. They even told him they had multiple people they had to ask questions to. It sounded like the whole ordeal lasted only a few minutes, an hour at most.

 

So basically you're saying you don't believe anything happened to any child. I'm glad you were there to know what happened. :o That's very sad. You would rather not be bothered than to actually catch some creep who was going around doing inappropriate things to children, than have a few grown adults questioned for a few minutes. You DEFINITELY don't have children.

 

If someone told me a child had been grabbed, touched, or experienced someone saying something inappropriate to them, and I fit the description, I would be happy to answer any questions they had for me. No problem.

 

I think a few dinner vouchers at some specialty restaurants would have been appropriate for the OP for the inconvenience. Maybe a free excursion. Cruise refunded or monetary compensaion? No way.

Edited April 18, 2017 by jetta8300

[jetta8300]

I am SO tired of OP and myself and people like us having our opinions immediately discounted because we are childless. Newsflash - kids lie. Frequently. To get themselves out of trouble, or to get attention. Of course security was right to investigate. You always do, even if you completely disbelieve the child's version of events. But the OP has rights too. One of those rights is to be informed of the nature of the accusations.

The mere fact that there is a child involved does not invalidate his Constitutional guarantees.

 

Parents like some of you make me dislike children. No one else matters. No one else even exists.

 

 

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And you know children so well because you have a bunch of them then? Seriously? Nobody is judging you for not having children, but it's ridiculous to assume that children lie ALL of the time. You have no clue if this was a statement made by a 6 year old, or a 17 year old. According to the cruise line, they were under 18. That's all we know. You have absolutely no clue what the circumstances are behind this. If it was taken so seriously, there may have even been witnesses.

 

They cruise line didn't owe him any explanation of the accusations because he wasn't accused of anything. They probably just wanted to know where he was or something, and then let him go. I understand being a bit shaken but seriously, that's life. It's part of society. If the victim said "the man was wearing a red hat, black shorts, and a blue polo shirt" and that's what they saw on camera, I'd expect questions for those who fit the description if it was that specific.

 

If it was a 30 year old woman who was grabbed or verbally assisted in the spa, would that have made you feel more comfortable answering a few questions? Would questioning be justified then if it happened to your spouse? Since all kids lie apparently?

Edited April 18, 2017 by jetta8300

[Cruise or Lose!]

I'm done with the "Mommy and Daddy mob mentality". This person was detained and questioned for an offence he could not possibly have committed. Ergo, he was falsely accused.

 

I specifically recommended that he NOT request or demand compensation. I suggested that he force the cruiseline to tell him why they detained him. I stand by that advice. Despite the fact that a bunch of people whose only claim to fame is reproducing have chosen to hurl insults, OP needs to know the truth.

 

 

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[jetta8300]

I'm done with the "Mommy and Daddy mob mentality". This person was detained and questioned for an offence he could not possibly have committed. Ergo, he was falsely accused.

 

I specifically recommended that he NOT request or demand compensation. I suggested that he force the cruiseline to tell him why they detained him. I stand by that advice. Despite the fact that a bunch of people whose only claim to fame is reproducing have chosen to hurl insults, OP needs to know the truth.

 

 

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He was not detained. Please re read. If he was held in some sort of "ship jail" for any amount of time then I would agree with you. But he wasn't. He was immediately brought to a room and asked probably 1 or 2 questions for a very brief amount of time and then let go. That's not detained. I now see that you have a problem with people who reproduce which makes more sense of your dislike of parents and children. And so I repeat, what if it happened to your spouse?

 

You have no idea how difficult or time consuming it would have been for the ship to check where a person actually was at any given time. I believe this would be incredibly difficult. So they decided to take a few minutes and just ask him. And no, being questioned is not the same as being accused, in ANY way shape or form.

[Cruise or Lose!]

He was not detained. Please re read. If he was held in some sort of "ship jail" for any amount of time then I would agree with you. But he wasn't. He was immediately brought to a room and asked probably 1 or 2 questions for a very brief amount of time and then let go. That's not detained. I now see that you have a problem with people who reproduce which makes more sense of your dislike of parents and children. And so I repeat, what if it happened to your spouse?

 

 

 

You have no idea how difficult or time consuming it would have been for the ship to check where a person actually was at any given time. I believe this would be incredibly difficult. So they decided to take a few minutes and just ask him.

 

 

 

One is "detained" any time one is questioned by law enforcement or persons with law enforcement authority, not permitted to decline to answer the questions, and not allowed to leave.

 

I dislike people who automatically assume that because I am childless, I am an idiot. Since the people who make that assumption are usually parents, draw your own conclusion. I am all for protecting children and other vulnerable members of society from harm. I am NOT in favour of random and arbitrary detention in pursuit of that laudable goal. Had that happened to you, you would be screaming bloody murder.

 

 

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[jetta8300]

One is "detained" any time one is questioned by law enforcement or persons with law enforcement authority, not permitted to decline to answer the questions, and not allowed to leave.

 

I dislike people who automatically assume that because I am childless, I am an idiot. Since the people who make that assumption are usually parents, draw your own conclusion. I am all for protecting children and other vulnerable members of society from harm. I am NOT in favour of random and arbitrary detention in pursuit of that laudable goal.

 

 

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Nobody is saying you're an idiot because you don't have children. That's crazy. This situation has absolutely nothing to do with the person being a child in my opinion. If it happened to any human being of any age I'd expect the same response from the cruise line.

 

You have no idea what kind of description this minor gave to the ship. It could have been incredibly detailed. So to say it was "random" is ridiculous. And he was not put in detention. You have no idea if he was allowed to leave or not. They probably kept him all of 5 minutes. Sheesh. And ill ask again...what if it happened to your spouse? If your spouse was grabbed, or verbally assaulted in the locker room, would you want the ship to question? I'm curious how you think they should actually proceed.

 

And I can tell you my opinion would have been exaclty the same 3 years ago before I Ever decided to have a child.

[Big_G]

Before anyone gets too fired up we should be reminded that this is an anonymous public cruise board. We weren't there, the OP says they weren't there, and we don't even know the OP (no offense intended caliguy415). OP was allegedly looking for advice. No need to pop a vein over speculation.

[jib614]

I'm done with the "Mommy and Daddy mob mentality". This person was detained and questioned for an offence he could not possibly have committed. Ergo, he was falsely accused.

 

I specifically recommended that he NOT request or demand compensation. I suggested that he force the cruiseline to tell him why they detained him. I stand by that advice. Despite the fact that a bunch of people whose only claim to fame is reproducing have chosen to hurl insults, OP needs to know the truth.

 

 

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He was not detained. Why could he not have possibly done it. He doesn't know the timeframe of when this occurred.

 

This is an adult mentality towards something inappropriate that may or may not if been done to a child. Being a mom or dad is totally irrelevant. This is about if rights were violated, which i whole heartedly believe they were not, and a possible crime being committed and a proper investigation that followed.

He was not detained. Please re read. If he was held in some sort of "ship jail" for any amount of time then I would agree with you. But he wasn't. He was immediately brought to a room and asked probably 1 or 2 questions for a very brief amount of time and then let go. That's not detained. I now see that you have a problem with people who reproduce which makes more sense of your dislike of parents and children. And so I repeat, what if it happened to your spouse?

 

You have no idea how difficult or time consuming it would have been for the ship to check where a person actually was at any given time. I believe this would be incredibly difficult. So they decided to take a few minutes and just ask him. And no, being questioned is not the same as being accused, in ANY way shape or form.

[jetta8300]

He was not detained. Why could he not have possibly done it. He doesn't know the timeframe of when this occurred.

 

This is an adult mentality towards something inappropriate that may or may not if been done to a child. Being a mom or dad is totally irrelevant. This is about if rights were violated, which i whole heartedly believe they were not, and a possible crime being committed and a proper investigation that followed.

 

That's exactly what I'm trying to say... I fail to see how the accuser being a minor has anything to do with it (except make it more serious in some people's eyes). Being a parent shouldn't matter either. I would have expected the same response from RCI whether it was a minor or adult who made the report, especially since none of us have any clue as to the circumstances. We don't know how serious or minor the accusations were, and if there were also witnesses which is possible. I would just assume that if the crew is bothering to question, and possibly offend people who are paying customers, the accusations are probably pretty serious, and possibly corroborated by others.

 

It's just troubling that some posters think automatically just because the accuser is a minor that they are likely lying. That's disturbing.

[LA_CA_GAL]

[CRZR58]

Interesting read for sure.

 

I don't think RCI security acted properly. The first thing that security should have done was to pull up each person who 'might match the description' and eliminate men who weren't in the spa at the time of the alleged incident. Assuming the OP is telling the truth, and I have no reason not to believe him, then he would have been eliminated and wouldn't have encountered any problems. Detaining suspects for a 'talk' before finding out if they were even there at the time is backwards and what caused the trouble in the first place.

One question that I don't think was answered yet... On RCI, are children allowed to be unaccompanied by adults in the Spa? If the answer is no, then the original problem resulted from RCI not enforcing their own rules.

[dcgrumpy]

Interesting read for sure.

 

I don't think RCI security acted properly. The first thing that security should have done was to pull up each person who 'might match the description' and eliminate men who weren't in the spa at the time of the alleged incident. Assuming the OP is telling the truth, and I have no reason not to believe him, then he would have been eliminated and wouldn't have encountered any problems. Detaining suspects for a 'talk' before finding out if they were even there at the time is backwards and what caused the trouble in the first place.

One question that I don't think was answered yet... On RCI, are children allowed to be unaccompanied by adults in the Spa? If the answer is no, then the original problem resulted from RCI not enforcing their own rules.

How do you know they didn't do that? Unless the person was off the ship at the time or using their seapass card at that exact moment on the other side of the ship there's no way to know for sure whether or not they were in the area. From what the OP has posted he was never given an exact time frame.

[Scottee25]

I have to remind myself to watch my language here :)

 

While I can completely sympathize with how the OP felt in this situation, I also feel that he is failing to understand WHY this happened. I can't help but feel that he has never had a significant dealing with law enforcement. It also appears that he had the delusions of grandeur that many people have when it comes to cruise ships... that they are these Utopian paradises where nothing bad ever happens. They are small floating cities that experience that do experience all degrees of crimes just like the real world. Security on these ships are not in the business of customer service. They are there to protect the safety of the passengers and the interests of the cruise line.

 

Up to a dozen years ago, I had never had a significant dealing with law enforcement either. Then out of the blue I found the FBI and the Michigan State Police at my door to serve a search warrant. I was floored. I had never been in trouble in my life. They searched my home and confiscated a few computers. Eventually my name was cleared and my property returned to me. But this was after over $10K in attorney fees, 8 months of courtroom appearances, delays, rescheduling, etc. My name appearing in the local newspaper. The rumors. The whispers. I probably felt a lot like you do right now. Anger. Frustration. Disgust. Did I want someone to be held accountable for what happened to me? Sure did! However, looking back, I know it could have been a lot worse! I could have been tried, convicted, and sentenced! Thankfully none of that happened to me. Be thankful all they did was question you.

 

Now you said you have friends and family that are attorneys. If that's the case, why are you asking us for advice instead of them? Are none of them criminal defense attorneys? Or did you come here for vindication of how you feel? My advice to you would be to find a way to put it behind you. They questioned you because you fit the description of a person they were looking for. They didn't randomly pull you out of a crowd. If that ruined your vacation, I am afraid that is on you. You can keep consuming your time on the topic if you wish as it is your time, but as a wise man used to say to me: "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?" The choice is your's.

[CRZR58]

How do you know they didn't do that? Unless the person was off the ship at the time or using their seapass card at that exact moment on the other side of the ship there's no way to know for sure whether or not they were in the area. From what the OP has posted he was never given an exact time frame.

From the OP's first post: "I told them that I hadn't even been in the spa the entire time I was on the ship". As I said, I have no reason not to believe his account of the story. The seapass has a record of pretty much everything you do while you are on board and the cameras should show who was and wasn't in the Spa at the time of the alleged incident.

[mjkacmom]

I am SO tired of OP and myself and people like us having our opinions immediately discounted because we are childless. Newsflash - kids lie. Frequently. To get themselves out of trouble, or to get attention. Of course security was right to investigate. You always do, even if you completely disbelieve the child's version of events. But the OP has rights too. One of those rights is to be informed of the nature of the accusations.

The mere fact that there is a child involved does not invalidate his Constitutional guarantees.

 

Parents like some of you make me dislike children. No one else matters. No one else even exists.

 

 

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As a parent of five, an aunt of ten, a certified teacher, no, kids don't lie all of the time. In fact, they are probably more truthful than adults. There are certain circumstances that might lead to more lying (did you brush you teeth? Do your homework? Eat that candy bar?), but it would not normal for a child to accuse a total stranger of making an inappropriate comment, at any age. That should be taken seriously.