Is the NCL Joy really that bad for Americans??

[GateGuardian]

Changes had been made since the announcement of the ship, the Korean port stop has been eliminated per PRC government authorities. I recalled that it was supposed to varied home port with Beijing's nearby TJ port. It's difficult to find info details even on oversea language sites. It looked like NCL Asia only released excess unsold cabins in select categories to the rest of the cruise market to fill up the ship. The bundling and package pricing are more like semi all-inclusive with escorted Port tours by Mandarin guides in Japan, and bus transfers to it's home port for it's nationals, only.

 

I will try and see if I can come up with any recent reviews from abroad to share.

 

via Nexus 5X Oreo 8.0 w Tapatalk, VPN secured.

 

 

Here's a review from youtube. However, it is in Cantonese, BUT English subtitle is available.

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

[geegee1]

You're not missing much. The Go Karts are VERY slow. Also the Bliss has a bigger track.

Not surprised that they would be slow. That would take a lot of the fun out of it

[TravelingSmurf]

Tokyo would be my pick, but probably be the most expensive.

 

We would love to go to Tokyo at some point if we don't do it this trip.

[hi2you]

Hi Sauer-kraut, thanks for replying. The video I watched was onboard the Joy and yes everything was in English (menus and things like that not shows). It does "warn" on the NCL website that it is a "Fully immersive Chinese experience Mandarin-speaking crew and Chinese Cuisines". I understand all of that but I don't understand why on other threads people have said that Americans would likely not enjoy a cruise where the majority of people would be Chinese. I just haven't seen anything concrete. Why? I'm looking for details. We have traveled though out the US and Europe but never to Asia. I think we are pretty open minded people and can deal with people of different cultures. I am just looking for details on why people say most Americans wouldn't like it.

 

Hi Mom2crazyKids---you need to ask yourself...are you like most Americans? And what are most Americans like anyway? Are Americans all the same and in one category?-not the ones I have every met and known. Diversity. If you like to travel the world and experience new places with new cultures and this is an itinerary you have always wanted to do, why wouldn't you enjoy the cruise you wish to take. You can't rely on what others say-its your life and your experiences. . Like someone else mentioned, if you do go, perhaps take a language book to have in case you do require to converse a little other than English. I find, just smiling and being your friendly self is enough - I don't look at a person and say,...she's Canadian, he's American, he's Chinese....I look at how they conduct themselves in their surroundings with other people no matter who those people are. Enjoy whatever you decide

[TravelingSmurf]

Hi Mom2crazyKids---you need to ask yourself...are you like most Americans? And what are most Americans like anyway? Are Americans all the same and in one category?-not the ones I have every met and known. Diversity. If you like to travel the world and experience new places with new cultures and this is an itinerary you have always wanted to do, why wouldn't you enjoy the cruise you wish to take. You can't rely on what others say-its your life and your experiences. . Like someone else mentioned, if you do go, perhaps take a language book to have in case you do require to converse a little other than English. I find, just smiling and being your friendly self is enough - I don't look at a person and say,...she's Canadian, he's American, he's Chinese....I look at how they conduct themselves in their surroundings with other people no matter who those people are. Enjoy whatever you decide

 

Hi hi2you. We have every intention of enjoying ourselves. That is something we are good at! :) I was just wondering what people meant when they said Americans may not like traveling on a cruise intended for Asian passengers. Now that I have read everything I think we are going to book it. We have an idea of what to expect and I think it is something we can deal with. Not every culture is the same, that's what I love about traveling! Like someone else mentioned, whether we are in mainland China or on a cruise with people from mainland China the people and societal norms are going to be the same. I am glad people responded though so we have a better idea of what to expect while we are there.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Mom2CrazyKids
I thought the post was written by someone else. Opps!

[Apsalar]

No real advice for you, but I've been to Shanghai twice for work. The first time I stayed in a fancy hotel that was pretty far from the office, and I got tired of taking taxis where the driver often didn't really know where he was going. So I asked one of my coworkers to show me how to take the metro (the subway). He thought I wouldn't like it and tried to talk me out of it, but I was insistent, so he helped me get a card with money loaded on to it, and off I went. Honestly it wasn't that bad. Yes, it was crowded, and yes there was a fair amount of pushing to get on and off the cars, but once you saw how it worked, you just jumped in and went along with it. I think they might even have given me a little extra space in the car since I was so obviously a foreigner. At least on the metro, all the announcements were in both Mandarin and English.

 

In the touristy areas in Shanghai, it's not hard to find people who speak English or to order in English at restaurants. But when you get away from the touristy areas I think English is a lot harder to get by in. I'm not sure which one you should expect on the Joy.

[TravelingSmurf]

No real advice for you, but I've been to Shanghai twice for work. The first time I stayed in a fancy hotel that was pretty far from the office, and I got tired of taking taxis where the driver often didn't really know where he was going. So I asked one of my coworkers to show me how to take the metro (the subway). He thought I wouldn't like it and tried to talk me out of it, but I was insistent, so he helped me get a card with money loaded on to it, and off I went. Honestly it wasn't that bad. Yes, it was crowded, and yes there was a fair amount of pushing to get on and off the cars, but once you saw how it worked, you just jumped in and went along with it. I think they might even have given me a little extra space in the car since I was so obviously a foreigner. At least on the metro, all the announcements were in both Mandarin and English.

 

In the touristy areas in Shanghai, it's not hard to find people who speak English or to order in English at restaurants. But when you get away from the touristy areas I think English is a lot harder to get by in. I'm not sure which one you should expect on the Joy.

 

Thanks Apsalar. It seems like if we go with the flow we will be fine.

[pinklady65]

On my recent Epic cruise we had a meet and greet with the ship officers and the message regarding Joy was that it definitely wasn't for westerners especially since everything targetted the Chinese and everything was in Cantonese. If you are on the adventurous side then go for it.

[hi2you]

No real advice for you, but I've been to Shanghai twice for work. The first time I stayed in a fancy hotel that was pretty far from the office, and I got tired of taking taxis where the driver often didn't really know where he was going. So I asked one of my coworkers to show me how to take the metro (the subway). He thought I wouldn't like it and tried to talk me out of it, but I was insistent, so he helped me get a card with money loaded on to it, and off I went. Honestly it wasn't that bad. Yes, it was crowded, and yes there was a fair amount of pushing to get on and off the cars, but once you saw how it worked, you just jumped in and went along with it. I think they might even have given me a little extra space in the car since I was so obviously a foreigner. At least on the metro, all the announcements were in both Mandarin and English.

 

In the touristy areas in Shanghai, it's not hard to find people who speak English or to order in English at restaurants. But when you get away from the touristy areas I think English is a lot harder to get by in. I'm not sure which one you should expect on the Joy.

 

Sounds similar to my experience on the crowded subway while visiting NYC last year in a September heat wave.

[kitty-sail]

:') You must have had the same 300 we did on our Alaska cruise. They weren't really rude, they just did not have any manners most Americans would consider normal....if that makes any sense. The spitting on the floor was just gross

 

I have not encountered people spitting on any NCL cruise but I cannot understand NCL accepting this practice for health reasons. They have sanitary conditions that must be adhered to.

 

 

For someone who has been on the ship - how clean was the ship, staterooms, restrooms, halls, etc?

 

 

If they allow spitting, what else is considered acceptable?

[littlelulu01]

I think the biggest clue regarding the potential that Americans may not in general like the sailings offered to the Chinese is that it was not offered to Americans or other markets until the end when they are simply filling up the leftover cabins. You may be different from the average western tourist and be just fine/able to deal with the cultural differences and enjoy the trip.

 

We were on the Jade recently for two weeks. Two different Chinese tour groups. One of 800 and one of 400. There was also a group from Hong Kong of about 300 and they were obviously not happy with the Chinese tour groups. It may have just been these particular passengers but the two groups from China exhibited some pretty pushy behavior and the passengers not in their group were pretty upset. I saw yelling and meltdowns daily.

 

Pushing is one thing. When placed in a position of forcibly being pushed whenever you are in public areas its another. It's more of a shoving. Forget any cultural exchange. The people I was around had no desire to smile, or even nod at us. I also saw quite a bit of unsanitary behavior that seemed to be the norm including coughing in my face, coughing in elevators without covering mouth, blowing nose in bare hands was a biggie. Passing gas, grabbing food and shoving others including the elderly to be first or before a westerner. loud voices no matter the situation.

 

I just didn't think being trapped on a ship for two weeks with a group of us vs them mentality was any sort of immersion or cultural experience. I thought it was a bit of a disaster.

 

There were many Chinese staff in training for the Joy aboard this jade sailing and they were excellent. Their English may not have been the best but if their willingness to please, kindness and manners were any indication of the rest of the Joy staff you would most likely receive outstanding service from NCL Chinese staff. Good luck in you decision.

[mking8288]

I have not encountered people spitting on any NCL cruise but I cannot understand NCL accepting this practice for ...

If they allow spitting, what else is considered acceptable?

I don't think any cruise lines would accept it, enforcing can be a challenge. There're dozens of them refilling water bottles directly from the dispenser on our Breakaway cruise last month but they weren't the only group doing it and the Washy Washy team was too far away.

 

We avoided eating in the buffet except once for late breakfast and another time for lunch on a port day, keeping our distance. Their counterpart from the US and Canada were seen in the MDR, and we saw none on our 2 nights in Le Bistro & Moderno. On the Joy, they are the majority so be prepared, just saying.

 

Like this sign while waiting for an extended family member this morning at an ambulatory care facility ... they are know to squat on top of the toilet seat, yikes.

 

This brings up another nuisance during our 7 days, room steward left reminders on 3 different evenings to remind everyone to not dump other matters into the bowl to clog up the lines. They're outside our hallway corridor's access panels to blast matters open, late night and 3 nights later, we smelled raw sewage again rounding our corner hallway ... our upstairs neighbor, maybe, again ? $250 USD fees are the penalty, if ... Innocent until proven guilty as "charged" - it would help if NCL can translate & issue those warnings & reminders in multiple language, especially if this ethnic group cruising as oversea tourists are stereotyped as the most likely offenders. And, I do happen to know that the extra thick, absorbent facial napkins with many use are often pulled out with other digusting matters, even on land-based places.

 

Granted, these unpleasant and shocking encounters are limited by avoiding the Joy for now. But, this will likely be more common on other NCL ships in the coming months & years as these affluent travelers stretched their wings abroad & discover our floating cities at sea.

 

 

on AT&T 4G, T-Mo/Project Fi or WiFi via Blu R1HD w Tapatalk, VPN secured.

Edited November 15, 2017 by mking8288

[littlelulu01]

I don't think any cruise lines would accept it, enforcing can be a challenge. There're dozens of them refilling water bottles directly from the dispenser on our Breakaway cruise last month but they weren't the only group doing it and the Washy Washy team was too far away.

 

We avoided eating in the buffet except once for late breakfast and another time for lunch on a port day, keeping our distance. Their counterpart from the US and Canada were seen in the MDR, and we saw none on our 2 nights in Le Bistro & Moderno. On the Joy, they are the majority so be prepared, just saying.

 

Like this sign while waiting for an extended family member this morning at an ambulatory care facility ... they are know to squat on top of the toilet seat, yikes.

 

This brings up another nuisance during our 7 days, room steward left reminders on 3 different evenings to remind everyone to not dump other matters into the bowl to clog up the lines. They're outside our hallway corridor's access panels to blast matters open, late night and 3 nights later, we smelled raw sewage again rounding our corner hallway ... our upstairs neighbor, maybe, again ? $250 USD fees are the penalty, if ... Innocent until proven guilty as "charged" - it would help if NCL can translate & issue those warnings & reminders in multiple language, especially if this ethnic group cruising as oversea tourists are stereotyped as the most likely offenders. And, I do happen to know that the extra thick, absorbent facial napkins with many use are often pulled out with other digusting matters, even on land-based places.

 

Granted, these unpleasant and shocking encounters are limited by avoiding the Joy for now. But, this will likely be more common on other NCL ships in the coming months & years as these affluent travelers stretched their wings abroad & discover our floating cities at sea.

 

 

on AT&T 4G, T-Mo/Project Fi or WiFi via Blu R1HD w Tapatalk, VPN secured.

 

I think it’s going to become the norm in the future to have many mainland Chinese passengers on sailings outside China. Like I previously posted, the group from Hong Kong followed western culture norms and manners. They were pretty furious with the mainland China groups.

 

I’ve been on a ship and sailings with a variety of cultures and as an American been the minority and quite enjoyed it but there was a semi common thread of general manners exhibited to allow everyone to enjoy their vacation.

 

This time on the Jade with over half mainland Chinese passengers it was difficult at best. The mention of plumbing problems- I regularly saw crew suited up to deal with some pretty bad issues in various areas. There was an extreme food intake going on and in the morning it was downed with hot water/teapots and salt. Not sure what all the salt in tea was about. The washy washy guy was basically ignored and the staff were trying to get people to disinfect hands but it was futile. The ports were mayhem too. Forgot about trying to get off the ship early. Plus the staff had to start checking bags in port because they took all the teapots and would take bags of food off the ship every day. What a joke to try and stop that. The signs they put up didn’t help.

 

Mostly I couldn’t stand the blowing nose thing in bare hands. Hated getting ready to take a bite of food and then being jammed into or someone loudly passing gas in my face and food.

 

I would never subject myself to this kind of vacation again. I sure would never book a cruise that sold out a year in advance as this one did. I think that’s the biggest indication that the ship is partial chartered by a large group that may negatively affect the experience.

[maggie cruises]

Hi Sauer-kraut, thanks for replying. The video I watched was onboard the Joy and yes everything was in English (menus and things like that not shows). It does "warn" on the NCL website that it is a "Fully immersive Chinese experience Mandarin-speaking crew and Chinese Cuisines". I understand all of that but I don't understand why on other threads people have said that Americans would likely not enjoy a cruise where the majority of people would be Chinese. I just haven't seen anything concrete. Why? I'm looking for details. We have traveled though out the US and Europe but never to Asia. I think we are pretty open minded people and can deal with people of different cultures. I am just looking for details on why people say most Americans wouldn't like it.

 

 

 

You aren't getting details because it might be misconstrued as discrimination toward the Chinese rather than a description of what it actually is....cultural variances

 

 

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[ColinIllinois]

You aren't getting details because it might be misconstrued as discrimination toward the Chinese rather than a description of what it actually is....cultural variances

 

 

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In other words, as so many people here are thinking and not posting... "political correctness".

[maggie cruises]

In other words, as so many people here are thinking and not posting... "political correctness".

 

 

 

Lol. I posted the above before reading the entire thread Thankfully not everyone is buying all this PC nonsense.

 

 

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[mking8288]

... might be misconstrued as discrimination ... rather than a description of what it actually is....cultural variances

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Bingo. Or, as being PC or not - I think of avoiding writing in the steretypes, as the overseas Chinese living in the US and Canada, and elsewhere, do not exhibit similar behaviors and manners - nor get along with the mainlanders ... "They aren't our kind" & "they are from there & we are here ..." As littlelulu01 commented - those ex-colonial Hong Konger has a strong dislike & resentment for the ones from north of their border.

 

Let's get back to suggestions to OP:

**** Shore excursion for ports of call in Japan (up to 3 for itinerary with 6 days) - unclear whether those are bundled in with generous time for shored-based duty-free shopping for luxury goods. What we saw as we disembarked the BA, was joyful tourists with liquor bottles and DFS shopping bags ... a $$$ welcome sight for CBP to levy and collect duties and taxes here in the US (and, their Chinese counterparts oversea upon returning home.)

 

As for videos & reviews, except for a review done in Chinese in a male voice, perhaps a frequent cruise & travel blogger - others were done mostly by TA and/or their agencies, with marketing focus. Those contents are somewhat informative and interesting, but not much in substance - and yet to see a set of daily MDR menus ("immersive Chinese") and some of the specialty dining & upcharge places for a la carte items... even, breakfast option in the MDR and buffet can be of interest, i.e. rice congee. Lastly, but not least - Freestyle Dailies as posted for a "real" sailing recently, but one of those promotional and/or group chartered cruise.

 

Since OP has the visas already & already in PVG, perhaps a 2 hour nonstop flight to PEK (Beijing) or 3 hours to HKG (Hong Kong) - that I would choose (PEK's weather in late December can be bone-chilling cold & stormy with snow cover, not good to see the Great Wall or flights often delayed/cancelled, etc. - whereas HKG is perfect for the X'mas & New Year holiday, all decked up & decorated in a festival mode. Instead of sailing to Japan, save those coastal cities for another time - as the island really should be seen on a land-based tour, escorted and not rushed back to not miss the "all abroad" call. HST (High Speed Train) with sleepers can get you into HKG overnight, saving a night's lodging, relaxed & ready to head for Nathan Road, Star Ferry, Victoria Harbour & Peak Tram ... plus, the smaller scaled HK Disneyland or Ocean Park, great for families with kids (and, prices are "cheaper" compared to the ones here in the U.S.)

 

Las Vegas East, or, really - it's Macau, the former Portuguese colony is a 55 minutes hydro-jetfoil ferry ride across the Pearl River Delta to explore for a full day, and, enough to see, do and eat without stepping foot inside one of the mega casino resort.

 

I would recommend booking, instead, Gentling's Dream megaship, sailing with just 3,400+ pax and 1,700+ crews, the same class ships designed & built originally for NCL ... but it's sailing different itineraries and further down in the South China Sea ... where you are more likely to come across & meet diverse Chinese from more parts of Asia & elswhere, as well as other nationalities ... more in tune with the cruise culture as recognized here on CC.

[Pitzel]

Here's a review from youtube. However, it is in Cantonese, BUT English subtitle is available.

 

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

 

Wow! What a great and thorough review (and very balanced)!

 

There are definitely aspects of the ship that sound awesome, if you can accept how the other passengers may behave towards you or around you.

[txagfan]

Mom2CrazyKids, it sounds like you've done your research. Yes, different societal norms -- not "bad," just different.

No disrespect, but some societal norms are BAD if it's not your society. It's ok to say that, it doesn't make you prejudiced, a xenophobe, racist, etc.

 

I have traveled all over the world including China (Beijing-Xian-Shanghai) and really enjoyed it, but there are a lot of things that would be offputting on a ship where you simply cannot get away. Only the OP really knows how they will react to what they have researched. I'd be ok with a cruise, but I don't lose my mind like some posters on CC do when something very minor goes wrong.

 

The reason I wouldn't cruise on Joy has little to do with the Chinese...I don't think the itineraries look great.

[TravelingSmurf]

Bingo. Or, as being PC or not - I think of avoiding writing in the steretypes, as the overseas Chinese living in the US and Canada, and elsewhere, do not exhibit similar behaviors and manners - nor get along with the mainlanders ... "They aren't our kind" & "they are from there & we are here ..." As littlelulu01 commented - those ex-colonial Hong Konger has a strong dislike & resentment for the ones from north of their border.

 

Let's get back to suggestions to OP:

**** Shore excursion for ports of call in Japan (up to 3 for itinerary with 6 days) - unclear whether those are bundled in with generous time for shored-based duty-free shopping for luxury goods. What we saw as we disembarked the BA, was joyful tourists with liquor bottles and DFS shopping bags ... a $$$ welcome sight for CBP to levy and collect duties and taxes here in the US (and, their Chinese counterparts oversea upon returning home.)

 

As for videos & reviews, except for a review done in Chinese in a male voice, perhaps a frequent cruise & travel blogger - others were done mostly by TA and/or their agencies, with marketing focus. Those contents are somewhat informative and interesting, but not much in substance - and yet to see a set of daily MDR menus ("immersive Chinese") and some of the specialty dining & upcharge places for a la carte items... even, breakfast option in the MDR and buffet can be of interest, i.e. rice congee. Lastly, but not least - Freestyle Dailies as posted for a "real" sailing recently, but one of those promotional and/or group chartered cruise.

 

Since OP has the visas already & already in PVG, perhaps a 2 hour nonstop flight to PEK (Beijing) or 3 hours to HKG (Hong Kong) - that I would choose (PEK's weather in late December can be bone-chilling cold & stormy with snow cover, not good to see the Great Wall or flights often delayed/cancelled, etc. - whereas HKG is perfect for the X'mas & New Year holiday, all decked up & decorated in a festival mode. Instead of sailing to Japan, save those coastal cities for another time - as the island really should be seen on a land-based tour, escorted and not rushed back to not miss the "all abroad" call. HST (High Speed Train) with sleepers can get you into HKG overnight, saving a night's lodging, relaxed & ready to head for Nathan Road, Star Ferry, Victoria Harbour & Peak Tram ... plus, the smaller scaled HK Disneyland or Ocean Park, great for families with kids (and, prices are "cheaper" compared to the ones here in the U.S.)

 

Las Vegas East, or, really - it's Macau, the former Portuguese colony is a 55 minutes hydro-jetfoil ferry ride across the Pearl River Delta to explore for a full day, and, enough to see, do and eat without stepping foot inside one of the mega casino resort.

 

I would recommend booking, instead, Gentling's Dream megaship, sailing with just 3,400+ pax and 1,700+ crews, the same class ships designed & built originally for NCL ... but it's sailing different itineraries and further down in the South China Sea ... where you are more likely to come across & meet diverse Chinese from more parts of Asia & elswhere, as well as other nationalities ... more in tune with the cruise culture as recognized here on CC.

 

Thanks mking8288 for your suggestions. I know the weather is not going to be ideal which is why we got such a great deal on our flight. It was one of those time where we just happend to see the deal and jumped on it. Now, we just have to make the best out of the situation. Although we would love to go back to China some time I am not sure when or if we will so we are going to try to see the Great Wall. The vacation may not be perfect but it's better than not going to China at all! :)

[TravelingSmurf]

Thank you everyone for all of the information. After reading though everything we have decided to book the cruise. We are not necessarily looking forward to some of the things we have read but since we are aware of it ahead of time I think it is something we can deal with. We already have the plane tickets to China and as someone else said the social norms are the same on the mainland as they will be on the ship so we will be seeing it anyway.

 

I will try my best to take some pictures and provide some information when I get back but it won't be a detailed report. I have never had a desire to write one of those phenomenal trip reports that are posted on here. I am one of those people who rarely take pictures and lack giving the details people tend to want to hear. I don't really pay attention to that type of thing. That being said, I am thankful to the people that answered my questions so I will answer any questions that I am asked when I get back.

[em-sk]

....

Like this sign while waiting for an extended family member this morning at an ambulatory care facility ... they are know to squat on top of the toilet seat, yikes.

 

...

 

If you have traveled in China you would see traditional squat toilets and "western" toilets. The first photo is the correct way of using a squat toilet. They are found in Africa, Asia, and India.

 

Here is a wikipedia page the describes them. You will notice the wikipedia page also has a photo of some sign that someone has put next to one of these for westerners who tend to use the toilet incorrectly.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

[em-sk]

While I am not a doctor will suggest that you start a regimen of vitamins/zinc etc as well as bringing a small pharmacy with you

 

Not only to keep the sniffles at bay but to try to protect yourself from your fellow pax who presses the elevator button/handles the stair rails/uses the buffet in any way at all.....after he blows snot into his hands

 

 

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If you do get sick, most pharmacies in major citieis in China offer traditional chinease medicine and most floor space is tedicated to that. In a small corner in the back is the western medication.

 

Simialr to Gernmany and Switzerland, I have found western medication has simple labelling, no-colour, black text on boxes white boxes. No photos or marketing material. Same stuff.

 

If you do go Japan (where) most of ports of call are on these cruses, you should keep in mind that people in Japan are hyper sensitive to cleanlyness by North American standards. It Japan most toilets are electronic water jets that clean your underside after using the toilet. You are also expect to wear a mask if you are sick and in public places. Most who are not sick also wear masks during the winder season when on the metro or walking around to protect themselves from germs.

[ddakrt]

Good point GateGuardian. We are flying in and out of Shanghai. If we don't cruise we are planning on going to Beijing and either Tokyo or Hong Kong (actually we going to Beijing even if we cruise).

 

I've been to Hong Kong several times and would easily recommend going to HK over the Joy. Yes the Joy looks like a very nice ship, but it's still your typical cruise whereas Hong Kong is just an amazing City overall. Aside from things that most travelers know already (westernized culture, large population knows English, night life, great food, shopping, safe and super accessible city with a tons of things to see), there's also a great natural side that most people don't talk about like islands with small fishing villages and great hiking to different mountains and beaches.

I love Hong Kong, highly highly recommended.

 

Regardless though, your family sound to be very open minded to other cultures and understands that you'll be at their country and need to adjust to their ways of life; you're going to be fine whether you choose to sail on Joy or go somewhere else. Have a great trip!

[ddakrt]

Lol. I posted the above before reading the entire thread Thankfully not everyone is buying all this PC nonsense.

 

 

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Everyone in this thread has been very clear about the difference in social norm, PC has nothing to do with it. Please don't bring politics into this discussion.

 

At the end of the day, if you're to travel overseas to their country, you need to understand that it is their ways of life, they're not being rude or ignorant, that's their norms and we as visitors should try to either conform or tolerate.