Cuba Confusion on HAL

[Micmac]

We are on the March 17th 11 day sailing on the Veendam. HAL Shore Excursions still lists a full compliment of tour offerings in Havana. The only tour previously offered for Cienfuegos was dropped. Final payment is next month and I hope something will be offered for Cienfuegos.

 

I hope that the roll call for the Dec. 22nd sailing will offer some feedback for the rest of us, and I hope this doesn't just turn into a HAL Caribbean cruise with no Cuba, which they can do legally, but I will be really annoyed .

 

Karen

 

Hi Karen - been a long time since Antarctica!

 

Interesting that your March sailing still has shore excursions listed for Havana. I am on the Jan 24 sailing and so far we only have 2 evening excursions offered for the evening of arrival and nothing yet for the next day. Hopefully we will learn a lot from the first sailing in a few weeks!!!

 

Michelle

[nw gardener]

In the last few hours, more excursions were posted on HAL's website with the note that if you booked after June 16, the only way you could get off is with a HAL tour. Too bad cruise lines are interpreting the new regulations differently. Both RCI and NCL have updated their cuba visa affidavits and both still allow a way to do a private tour.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Forums mobile app

[princeton12321]

In the last few hours, more excursions were posted on HAL's website with the note that if you booked after June 16, the only way you could get off is with a HAL tour. Too bad cruise lines are interpreting the new regulations differently. Both RCI and NCL have updated their cuba visa affidavits and both still allow a way to do a private tour.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Forums mobile app

 

 

 

I'm sure it won't last- their interpretation isn't lawful. You are allowed to do whatever you like in Cuba as long as you adhere to the sanctioned activities of the affidavit or at least claim to be. I can't imagine people will stand for being imprisoned on the Veendam just because you're not taking their tours.

[dwgreenlee]

Yes, To spend any money on dinner or souvenieres, or4 whatever it is likely that money goes directly to the governemnt and not the Shopkeepr. the point is to help the people without enriching the government. Hard to do on one's own, as you say.

 

Am I correct in thinking we wer allowed to gbe in Cuba for years vutt could not spend any mmoney. How would one do that ? except i if one has family or good friends there.

What you are talking about was called the "fully hosted" programs where everything was paid by third parties not subject to US Jurisdiction. It was very rare that those were approved and US Treasury required travelers to "overcome the presumption" of spending money while visiting Cuba. In such circumstances you had to prove that even your marina and visa fees were paid by non US parties. I did read about US Persons as crew on foreign flag boats that used this exception.

[sail7seas]

In the last few hours, more excursions were posted on HAL's website with the note that if you booked after June 16, the only way you could get off is with a HAL tour. Too bad cruise lines are interpreting the new regulations differently. Both RCI and NCL have updated their cuba visa affidavits and both still allow a way to do a private tour.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Forums mobile app

 

 

Interesting.

[sail7seas]

What you are talking about was called the "fully hosted" programs where everything was paid by third parties not subject to US Jurisdiction. It was very rare that those were approved and US Treasury required travelers to "overcome the presumption" of spending money while visiting Cuba. In such circumstances you had to prove that even your marina and visa fees were paid by non US parties. I did read about US Persons as crew on foreign flag boats that used this exception.

 

Yes,

 

 

I remember at least 5 or so years ago, our congregation offered a learning tour to Cuba. it had U.S. gov't approva l and had the dates worked for Dh and me, we would have gone. Trere was not much free time to go to the beach, or the like, as i RECALL It was truly a person to person learning experience.

[Loreto]

Hi Karen - been a long time since Antarctica!

 

Interesting that your March sailing still has shore excursions listed for Havana. I am on the Jan 24 sailing and so far we only have 2 evening excursions offered for the evening of arrival and nothing yet for the next day. Hopefully we will learn a lot from the first sailing in a few weeks!!!

 

Michelle

 

Hi Michelle,

yes, Antarctica on the Zaandam was our best cruise ever! HAL did post excursions for our March 17th cruise for Cienfuegos, and the selections look good, especially Trinidad. I have a book that has wonderful photos of Trinidad...very historical. No tour in Havana has exactly what I want, so I will have to settle for the all day tour.

 

Karen

[dwgreenlee]

Yes,

 

 

I remember at least 5 or so years ago, our congregation offered a learning tour to Cuba. it had U.S. gov't approva l and had the dates worked for Dh and me, we would have gone. Trere was not much free time to go to the beach, or the like, as i RECALL It was truly a person to person learning experience.

Your congregation could have also used the "religious activity" exception to the sanctions. It is worthy to note, however, that what worked five years ago may not work now - something about a new guy in the White House.

[dwgreenlee]

The US government or customs doesn't ask when you return about what you did or didn't do nor do they have the resources to even care for individuals. That's the reason for the affidavit. Clearing customs after being in Cuba is as easy as clearing it after a long weekend in London. Humanitarian work could easily be construed as spending money on lunch in a private family owned restaurant or even taking a box of toothpaste and giving them out to those in need. Again- no one will check what you did but you can always do something if it'll make you feel better about meeting the requirements.

You are correct that enforcement is very unlikely. You have to go back about two decades to find an enforcement against individuals. You are also correct that US Customs does not enforce the sanctions - the Office of Foreign Assets Controls, US Treasury is the enforcement agency.

[sail7seas]

Your congregation could have also used the "religious activity" exception to the sanctions. It is worthy to note, however, that what worked five years ago may not work now - something about a new guy in the White House.

 

 

I'll skip the politics offered in ; your post and thank you for the info regarding the religious exception. that makes sens e and likely is accurrate.

[IndyDenise]

You seem to be realisic and knnow threre is the chanace Cuba could be canceled for any number of reasons. You have time to make a decision how much chance you are comfortable living with. I for one, will not be surprised if HAL c alls at c Cu ba are cancelled and this is only my per sonal opinion with no input from anyone at HAL 'in the know.' Stiil, a Caribean cruise in win er to almost anywhere is always welcome for most of us no matter the ports. Knowing you will be really annoyed does not change anything. :)

 

 

 

I would be beyond livid if my Cuban cruise became just a Caribbean one.

 

I could have then taken 3 Caribbean cruises for the cost of the Cuban.

 

And.. I honestly would have never picked that ship ( Veendam) to go on a just a Caribbean Cruise anyway.. unless it was my only option. I could deal if it got me to Cuba ( I want to go there so badly!!! )

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[nw gardener]

So this is what HAL has posted on excursions for Cuba when you are exploring when logged in to your reservation [there are very few excursions offered, certainly not enough to satisfy everyone who wants to disembark]. HAL has not changed their general Cuba Q&A page on their website which reads like you can still do a private excursion. What is maddening is just not knowing how HAL is going to actually implement all of this, I get a different answer with each phone call and email.

 

 

Pursuant to recent changes in U.S. regulations with respect to people to people travel　authorization　to Cuba, guests who made cruise reservations on or after June 16, 2017, and wish to disembark in Cuba, must participate in a full-time HAL-guided group program. Guests who made cruise reservations prior to June 16, 2017 are not required to participate in a full-time HAL-guided group program, and may travel in Cuba under the "self-guided" people to people authorization.

[BlackJack2]

Thanks to everyone for their informative responses. At the bottom of each shore excursion, in Havana and Cienfuegos, there is a blurb from HAL:

 

RegulationNotes Regarding Tours:

Pursuant torecent changes in U.S. regulations with respect to people topeople travel authorization to Cuba, guests who made cruise reservations on orafter June 16, 2017, and wish to disembark in Cuba, must participate in afull-time HAL-guided group program. Guests who made cruise reservations priorto June 16, 2017 are not required to participate in a full-time HAL-guidedgroup program, and may travel in Cuba under the "self-guided" peopleto people authorization.

After guestshave completed their required full time schedule of people to peopleactivities, they are welcome to explore Cuba on their own or participate inevening HAL excursions (not designed to be people to people programs).

This tour isdesigned to be in compliance with People to People guidelines.

 

The communityproject associated with this tour is included to promote further understandingand interaction with the Cuban people. As is the fluid nature of communityprojects in Cuba, the location and type of community project visited may varyto provide the best experience for our guests.

[BlackJack2]

Hi Michelle,

yes, Antarctica on the Zaandam was our best cruise ever! HAL did post excursions for our March 17th cruise for Cienfuegos, and the selections look good, especially Trinidad. I have a book that has wonderful photos of Trinidad...very historical. No tour in Havana has exactly what I want, so I will have to settle for the all day tour.

 

Karen

 

Hi Karen and Michelle - That was a great cruise to Antarctica! Wish we were all on the same cruise to Cuba this time around. Karen - thanks for the info on Cienfuegos - I just checked and HAL has posted the tour to Trinidad on our Feb. 28 sailing. ~Betsy

[WpgCruise]

Is there any information regarding restrictions on tours/activities/interactions allowed for non U.S. passengers ?

 

Logic would suggest that the U.S. regulations wouldn't apply to non U.S citizens and these passengers would be able to do what they like, as they could with a do it yourself visit.

 

It's going to be interesting to learn from people who return the level of intervention/supervision of passengers by the cruise line.

[dwgreenlee]

Is there any information regarding restrictions on tours/activities/interactions allowed for non U.S. passengers ?

 

Logic would suggest that the U.S. regulations wouldn't apply to non U.S citizens and these passengers would be able to do what they like, as they could with a do it yourself visit.

 

It's going to be interesting to learn from people who return the level of intervention/supervision of passengers by the cruise line.

 

If your cruise departs/returns to the US, the rules apply to all passengers. On an interesting note though, enforcement is done by the Treasury Department months - sometimes years - after the travel. There really does not seem any way that would work for non US Citizens who are no longer in the US. The risk remains that the Cruise Line polices may interfere with independant plans.

 

If you are not a US Citizen/Person you might want to consider the MSC Cruise that does not even make a port call in the US.

[Sea42]

I would be beyond livid if my Cuban cruise became just a Caribbean one.

 

I could have then taken 3 Caribbean cruises for the cost of the Cuban.

 

And.. I honestly would have never picked that ship ( Veendam) to go on a just a Caribbean Cruise anyway.. unless it was my only option. I could deal if it got me to Cuba ( I want to go there so badly!!! )

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

As with any destination, if you want to go so badly, do not depend on a cruise to get you there. There is never a guarantee that you will visit any port, on any itinerary.

[SweetMonkey]

Does anyone have any new information on this? Do you still HAVE to book an excursion to get off the ship in Cuba? Since they're making you book an excursion, are they included? I suspect not, but my boyfriend thinks they might. haha. What are typical prices for the excursions? We're trying to decide if it's worth doing if we HAVE to go on an excursion.

[SweetMonkey]

Also, I'm assuming that you don't need a visa because the cruise line takes care of that?

[princeton12321]

Also, I'm assuming that you don't need a visa because the cruise line takes care of that?

 

 

 

You do not need to participate in the cruise line run tours to disembark- this is a myth perpetuated by the cruise lines to create confusion so you just go with them.

 

Most cruise lines provide visas and this is the easiest way to go about it. You can purchase visas directly from the Cuban government without a markup but you’d have to go to the Embassy in DC.

[Nieuwuser]

I just booked a Cuban cruise on the Veendam April 18th.2018.

My PCC said HAL supplies the Visa for $75

The Visa application form can be downloaded with the other HAL documents on their website.

The application has to be completed before embarkation.

You do not have to book a HAL excursion to get off the ship (I will book with HAL )

For those who booked before June 2017 there are different rules.

Read the roll calls,there is a lot of good info there.

[OlsSalt]

You do not need to participate in the cruise line run tours to disembark- this is a myth perpetuated by the cruise lines to create confusion so you just go with them.

 

Most cruise lines provide visas and this is the easiest way to go about it. You can purchase visas directly from the Cuban government without a markup but you’d have to go to the Embassy in DC.

 

HAL asks US passengers to sign a Cuba Affidavit upon embarkation declaring whether they are going to participate in one of the three options: only ship excursions; hybrid of ship excursions and private touring; and all private touring. They are required to abide by US regulations.

 

I cannot support your conclusion they intentionally create confusion for their own profit motives. It is the US passengers duty to know what regulations apply to them in Cuba. HAL just gets you there and does offer hassle free touring options.