First peer at Red Hook Piers

[travel-to-go]

Gee,

Saturday night and I am NOT on a cruise ship, so I thought I would stir things up a bit.

The following is from WaterfrontMatters.org's web site:

It's about the beginnings of the Red Hook terminal back in 1999

 

First, a chronology:

· In 1999, the Cruise industry submits a report to the city, asking for improvements to the west side passenger ship terminal.

· In 1999, Carnival makes it’s own offer to the city, proposing that pier 7 in Brooklyn become the future home of the Queen Mary 2, the largest cruise ship in the world they plan to build.

· December 2002, the EDC and Port Authority announce an RFP to plan for the future of piers 6-12 in Brooklyn.

· In August 2003, Royal Caribbean begins talking to the city about coming to Brooklyn.

· December 2003, Royal Caribbean announces it will take its cruise ships to Bayonne, New Jersey.

· March 1, 2004, the City Council holds a hearing with the EDC about their plans for retaining the cruise industry in New York, the tone of council’s remarks could be described as castigating.

· April 25, 2004 the Queen Mary 2 arrives in New York City for the first time, without a new pier to host her.

More at:

http://www.waterfrontmatters.org/pages/8/index.htm

 

So it looks like Mickey Arison planned this from the start- whether or not the city refused a permit for QM2 to continue sticking out in the river.

And it partly rests on him making a deal to save money.

 

Okay, I'm going to sit back now and watch the fireworks! <G>

 

Karie

[travel-to-go]

Okay,

Here is my justification for my statement the costsaving ploy: BTW< EDC is the Economic Development Commision.

CCarnival's offer was for pier 7 to be exclusively for their ships, with Carnival paying lower fees at this own terminal. The EDC thought this would wick money away from the passenger ship terminal in Manhattan, and the EDC wanted the proposed Brooklyn cruise pier to service ships from several companies as is currently the case at the Passenger Ship Terminal in Manhattan....

Israel elaborated that if the Brooklyn proposal is only an interim rehab of pier 7, Carnival will keep the Queen in Manhattan where the pier will have to be extended to accommodate her. Once that is done, there will be little incentive for Carnival to move her back to Brooklyn, he says. By that point there might be other ships suitable for berthing there...

And clarification on the statement the Commodore made about not being able to go around Governor's island due to the reef (and he did use that term)

A new question put before the public (though maritime circles have been discussing it for some time) is the navigation issue of Diamond Reef. That is a reef just north of Governor's Island in the vicinity of a Battery Tunnel ventilation shaft. Docking literally is an issue of "between a rock and a hard place." The question is whether ships have enough navigating room if they are docking perpendicular to the shore. Will their ends risk hitting Diamond Reef, or will ships have to dock parallel to the shore?

Januszewski said the docks perpendicular to shore (finger piers) require tugs to get the ship to the dock, and he said cruise lines want to eliminate that cost. Tugs are currently used to dock cruise ships on the west side. We will be inquiring about the cost of a tug assist to determine how significant these numbers may be. Certainly, cruise lines have been building new ships with bow thrusters to replicate the lateral push traditionally provided by tugs, but these work better in coastal ports without the current of New York's rivers and tidal straits. Navigation simulations over the next few weeks will test this all out.

Comment about vehicular traffic:

The southern scenario suggestion of cruise on pier 12 raised some questions about access. The streets outside the terminal there are very narrow. The source at EDC says the concept is to have the traffic travel inside the terminal perimeter, not down Imlay or Van Brunt Street. This too would have been useful to hear at Monday's meeting.

 

This is all almost 2 years old. I'll try to look for something more up-to-date.

 

Just more stirring of the pot!

Karie

Not passing judgement here. Just reporting what I found.

[joy2cruz]

...how about a ferry from the west side terminals? I think that would be a great solution for everyone -- passengers and crew.

[berry22192]

Made the trip to Red Hook... very dull. Arrivals and departures heretofore will sadly lack the "bang" of classic Manhattan west side piers departures and arrivals. I will be on the 2007 QE2 world cruise and cannot imagine the departure from Red Hook.

 

 

We'll be on the same QE2 January 2007 cruise (only as far as San Francisco, though) but think we'll catch the QE2 in Fort Lauderdale [Port Everglades] rather than 2 days earlier in Red Hook. There should be far less local transportation hassle, even though we live along the NE corridor.

[travel-to-go]

...how about a ferry from the west side terminals? I think that would be a great solution for everyone -- passengers and crew.

 

At least one of those web sites mentioned a Water Taxi service.

 

Karie

[guernseyguy]

There is an interesting article in the NY Times (free registration required) about Red Hook and the debate about its development - it also has a map showing the location of the pier, and 'proposed ferries' close to the Passenger pier.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/19/nyregion/19redhook.html?pagewanted=all

 

Peter

[cruiserking]

There is a great photo and news update on the new Brooklyn Piers at

http://www.worldshipny.com.

 

Cruiserking

[travel-to-go]

There is a great photo and news update on the new Brooklyn Piers at

www.worldshipny.com.

 

Cruiserking

Well, this is a delightful thought!

 

For the Queen Mary 2, its 1131-foot length will extend south beyond the end of 900-foot Pier 12, and its bow mooring lines will come ashore to newly positioned bollards opposite the open parking facility. A fence and a few yards will separate onlookers from the bow of the ship where it extends beyond embarkation tower and the shed.

 

So much for security!At least this part might ease people's minds about not getting to see the skyline or the lady:

 

From the highest decks aboard the cruise ships, passengers will be able to have a clear view south into the Upper Bay and Staten Island, west across the narrow Buttermilk Channel to Governors Island, north to the Lower Manhattan skyline, the Brooklyn Bridge, Red Hook Container Terminal, Brooklyn Heights, downtown Brooklyn and east and southeast to the adjacent neighborhood of Red Hook and parts of South Brooklyn. Those standing at the very bow may just be able to see the Statue of Liberty which will come into full view immediately upon departure. In April, a visitors' guide to the immediate neighborhood will appear on this site featuring Red Hook�s history, places to explore and the best vantage points for viewing Upper New York Bay, Erie Basin and the ships, both from land and passing ferries.

Karie,

Who may get a chance to tour the Noordam April 15th and will be sure to drive over to Brooklyn to see the new pier and the hoopla!

[guernseyguy]

In an article about the Red Hook facility in Travel Weekly (Free subscription reqd):

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/articles.aspx?articleid=50588

 

Possibly, but I still prefer the views from Manhattan! This article also says that vessels will point upstream, turning on departing, not arriving.....so I guess we'll have to wait to see.....

 

Peter

[garycarla]

A few highlights from that article:

 

This article was a result of a media tour "6 weeks before opening day"

 

“I realize it looks like we have a long way to go,” said the project manager for Turner Construction, the company doing the renovation, who didn’t want his name used. “But we’re ahead of schedule.”

The marine part of the construction is finished, he said, and the black, shiny bollards on the pier and marine fenders bobbing off the docks were a ready contrast to the actual terminal, which he said was 75% complete.

Carol Marlow, Cunard’s president, said she is thrilled that the QM2 will inaugurate the completed terminal.

Marlow visited the facility in December and was pleased with what she saw, especially given problems Cunard had in the past trying to bring a ship of the QM2’s size into the Manhattan terminal.

[Jeanne S]

Peter:

 

There is no getting around the fact that Red Hook is a dump. We were there this past weekend and it still looks pretty bad. But then as John Maxtone Graham said in the NY Times this past weekend, the Manhattan Piers have always been an eyesore, so unlike the magnificant piers in Europe.

 

What I am hoping this that eventually Carnival will make this a nice port as they have others, but this is not likely to occur anytime soon.

 

Jeannie

[mike14c]

As a life-long New Yorker, though not a Brooklynite, I must say that the East River, Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn sky-line view that will be available with the new terminal really is nothing to sneeze at. It's a gorgeous view, with all the magnificent East River crossing visiable up to the Williamsburg Bridge. Personally, I prefer it to crusing up the monotonous west side of Manhattan.

 

Nobody panic -- any view of Manhattan from the water is a show-stopper, and the visual wow of the East River at dawn is, to me, the ne plus ultura of Manhattan Cityscape scenes.

 

Oh, and Red Hook certainly is a dump; no two ways about that. As is 12th Avenue in the 50's for that matter.

[Jeanne S]

In London taxis are legally obliged to take you anywhere within the Greater London area, and may only decline fares outside that area - if they don't, you can report them and their license is at risk. Is the same true in NY - must they take you anywhere within the five boroughs? My experience of Manhattan cabs is somewhat different.......setting to one side communication issues.......

 

Peter

 

Peter:

 

This is the Official Web Site for the Thighly regulated: Taxi and Limo Commission http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/home/home.shtml. Go to Passenger Information/Taxi Cab Rider Bill of Rights.

 

Among your basic rights you are entitled to:

 

 

1) Travel to any destination in the five boroughs of the City of New York.

2) Direct the destination and route used

3) A courteous, English-speaking driver who knows the streets in Manhattan and the way to major destinations in other boroughs.

 

And you have the right to make a complaint and may do so on-line. That said I have witnessed drivers doing and refusing to do all sorts things. Usuually, when reminded they will be reported, they do comply, but it depends.

 

Jeanne

[Jeanne S]

As a life-long New Yorker, though not a Brooklynite, I must say that the East River, Brooklyn Bridge, Brooklyn sky-line view that will be available with the new terminal really is nothing to sneeze at. It's a gorgeous view, with all the magnificent East River crossing visiable up to the Williamsburg Bridge. Personally, I prefer it to crusing up the monotonous west side of Manhattan.

 

 

Oh, and Red Hook certainly is a dump; no two ways about that. As is 12th Avenue in the 50's for that matter.

 

I have this beautiful view from 335 Adams Street Brooklyn of NY Bay - top floor during the week.

 

I pointed out to everyone by mentioning Maxtone Grahame's Sunday article in the Times that the Manhattan Pier is a bigger dump and the surrounding neighborhood, you are correct, is pretty bad. I cannot stand having to go to that pier and seem to be the only one on this forum looking foward to not having to go there anymore. At least in Brooklyn Carnival will invest.

 

I found the Bayonne Pier for RCCL/Celebrity to be wonderful, convenient, fast. My concern for Brooklyn is the trafffic, but time will tell I guess.

[garycarla]

I have this beautiful view from 335 Adams Street Brooklyn of NY Bay - top floor during the week. ...

 

From your building here, can you see the pier? It looks like you are quite a few blocks away.

[Jeanne S]

Most of the Office tower and the floor that I work on is not visable in the Print Screen. What you can see in the upper right hand side is the entrance to 335 Adams, but not how tall the building is nor it unobstructed view.

 

The building is 32 stories high and houses on floors 1-6 The Brooklyn Marriott (whose entrance is adjacent 335) I can see practically 360 degrees from the upper floors of this building and get a view of Manhattan, all of Upper New York Bay (and some lower - which is past the VN Bridge) Port Bayonne and Staten Island (so I see the Verrazano, Brooklyn, Manhattan and Williamsburg brigdes, as well as the distant Bayonne Bridge.

 

Fortunately there are few tall buildings in Brooklyn so I can see much and can drill down further using binoculars.

[Ribble]

Peter:

 

This is the Official Web Site for the Thighly regulated: Taxi and Limo Commission http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/home/home.shtml. Go to Passenger Information/Taxi Cab Rider Bill of Rights.

 

Among your basic rights you are entitled to:

 

 

1) Travel to any destination in the five boroughs of the City of New York.

2) Direct the destination and route used

3) A courteous, English-speaking driver who knows the streets in Manhattan and the way to major destinations in other boroughs.

 

And you have the right to make a complaint and may do so on-line. That said I have witnessed drivers doing and refusing to do all sorts things. Usuually, when reminded they will be reported, they do comply, but it depends.

 

Jeanne

 

"Thighly regulated"? Something to do with legroom?

[SeeLegs]

As many of you seem to be visiting or familiar with the area of Red Hook and Pier 12, could someone please give me directions?

I am sailing in on the QM2 on April 29th and realized it will not be into Manhattan. I have someone picking me up, and being from New Jersey, Brooklyn might as well be Egypt! :(

I've been searching for maps and directions, but all I've come up with is the Brooklyn/Battery Tunnel to Gowanus Exp. Possibly to Van Brunt St?

If anyone can give me some exact directions I would be very grateful, almost as grateful as the person who has to find me!

[guernseyguy]

If anyone can give me some exact directions I would be very grateful, almost as grateful as the person who has to find me!

 

The Port Authority have a web page with directions:

 

http://www.nycruiseterminal.com/bct_info.cfm

 

Peter

[SeeLegs]

Thank you very much Peter.

I had a completely different website for the Port Authority where no directions were provided.

I will post observations and info for others on debark at Red Hook after my trip. QM2 Westbound 4/23

Thanks for not leaving me.... "Stranded in Brooklyn" (sounds like a Neil Simon play);)

[greatam]

SeeLegs

The directions on the Port Authority website are from Manhattan or JFK. Your friend WILL NOT want to drive into Manhattan to get to Red Hook. Have your friend take the Verranzano Bridge into NY from the Jersey Turnpike. When they come off the bridge onto the BQE (278 EAST), have them follow the JFK directions to Hamilton Ave.

 

If your friend goes into Manhattan to get to Brooklyn, he will have extra tolls AND the trip will take about twice as long. Getting across Canal from the Holland tunnel (NJ side) to the Brooklyn Bridge can easily take 1+ hour. Do NOT go into Manhattan to get to Brooklyn from New Jersey.

[SeeLegs]

Thanks for your advice, Greatam .

He's not going to be happy about this change, so the easier the better.

[travel-to-go]

Have your friend take the Verranzano Bridge into NY from the Jersey Turnpike.

 

Juest tell him to watch it when he goes under the bridge. I understand there's this REALLY BIG ship which ALMOST scraped the bottom of the bridge when she goes under. The Queen something or another. <G>

 

Karie, who was amazed at how close it was and how quickly it slipped by.

[tvaud]

The taxis might not venture into that part of Brooklyn, but you can always get one of the "black car" car services to go. You can look them up on Google. They would be at a premium price, but you'd go in style and be assured of getting there safely. You could arrange for them to pick you up afterwards as well.

Cindra

[Jeanne S]

"Thighly regulated"? Something to do with legroom?

 

This surpasses my 2003 review entitled: "QE2 to BERNUDA."