Viking Jupiter electrical problems?

[Hanoj]

I’ve read, but was unable to confirm, the Jupiter has returned to Tilbury with electrical problems. 

 

Cruisemapper current location: https://www.cruisemapper.com/?imo=9796262

[Island2Dweller]

Various reports (with photos) on twitter show that she didn't very far after leaving Greenwich last evening - seemingly only to off Herne Bay (Kent coast) then has been towed into Tilbury.

[Heidi13]

The AIS history shows that she arrived in London on June 28th, departing early this morning for an anchorage. She was anchored for a little over 6 hours, before returning to Tilbury. She arrived in Tilbury about 14:20, which was about 2 hours ago.

 

Nothing about electrical issues in any of my marine publications, but based on the schedule, I believe she should have departed London on June 30th to be in Bergen by July 14th.

[Island2Dweller]

Just being slightly pedantic.  She didn't "return" to Tilbury - she had just sailed from Greenwich, not Tilbury.  She's supposed to be off Edinburgh tomorrow - that looks unlikely.

[TayanaLorna]

There were some posts on one of the Viking FB groups from a fellow on board.  He said they anchored and were then returning to Tilbury for an electrical repair of one of the engines.  He said Viking was arranging free excursions if they had to stay there for long.

[molymoo]

We’re on board and in Tilbury at the moment.  No excursions have been announced and probably won’t as we are at least tentatively scheduled to leave port tomorrow afternoon ... back on board time is 12:00PM.  Doubt that’s enough time for any excursions.  We are welcome to wander on our own but not likely as we are quite a way from much of anything.  Specific info has been scarce but might get more later this evening.

Edited July 2, 2019 by molymoo

[moatenote]

Thanks for this info.  We're scheduled to board the Jupiter in Bergen on July 14 for the British Isles cruise.  Hoping it's a relatively minor problem!

[molymoo]

Fingers crossed!  

[Heidi13]

44 minutes ago, molymoo said:

We’re on board and in Tilbury at the moment.  No excursions have been announced and probably won’t as we are at least tentatively scheduled to leave port tomorrow afternoon ... back on board time is 12:00PM.  Doubt that’s enough time for any excursions.  We are welcome to wander on our own but not likely as we are quite a way from much of anything.  Specific info has been scarce but might get more later this evening.

Affirmative - nothing much around Tilbury.

 

About 8 miles from the dock is Lakeside Shopping Mall - big mall with a film theatre. You can also catch the train into London - frequent service to Fenchurch St Station by Tower Hill.

[PedroPedro]

Hanoi,

Do you find the near total loss of Viking Sky off coast of Norway in March as routine? Loss of ship power at sea is always a very dangerous situation. Had the weather been severe, being close to land would present far more danger for passenger lives than if in open sea.

Respectfully, 

Peter 

[Hanoj]

6 minutes ago, PedroPedro said:

Hanoi,

Do you find the near total loss of Viking Sky off coast of Norway in March as routine? Loss of ship power at sea is always a very dangerous situation. Had the weather been severe, being close to land would present far more danger for passenger lives than if in open sea.

Respectfully, 

Peter 

 

@PedroPedro, not at all. I nearly cancelled our Med Odyssey cruise (concluded in early June) after the Sky incident. I'm increasingly reluctant to sail with VO due to these issues on such relatively new ships. Marketing vs. reality, as you wrote, is telling. I don't have the expertise to evaluate the operational conditions of these ships, but with company's heavy marketing emphasis and aggressive push to gain market share, I wonder why Viking is having these issues (and other operational challenges, especially on new itineraries). Are the ships built and operated to only minimum standards? The initial conclusion about oil pressure sensors being the cause of the near catastrophic failure of the Sky begs the question of standards, at least to me it does. I had taken comfort that the VO ships are flagged under Norway (compared to Seabourn and Regent with Caribbean country flags), but now I'm skeptical. Aren't the Viking ships and the Regent Explorer (at least) built by Fincantieri of Italy? Are they built and or operated to different standards? How does one discover these things?

[molymoo]

Update ... excursions HAVE been arranged and times indicate that we will be here in Tilbury until tomorrow evening.  We are attending the Captain’s reception hoping for more info and standing room only crowd would indicate we’re not the only ones!

[MrRandal]

Viking just Tweeted this, however the link takes you to a page that says all Viking Cruises are running on schedule.

 

[PedroPedro]

Know of no way to evaluate the technical competency of these VO ships except by noticing problems, but inadequate crew ability can also dramatically impact quality. Or maybe interface between man and machine not working?

These ships have four huge Mas diesel generator sets powering (in different combinations) two electric powered Rolls-Royce Promas shaft, propeller, rudder assemblies, latest most versatile technology that should provide full maneuverability even if half are out of service. Something safety wise looks to be very wrong.

Aviation authorities grounded Boeing aircraft with analogous human-automation interface ambiguities. Wonder if maritime authorities will similarly act? Viking Sky loss of power came close to creating a massive loss of life at sea.

[bad user name]

Please don't feed the Trolls!

[Heidi13]

44 minutes ago, bad user name said:

Please don't feed the Trolls!

So true, no responses required. Already blocked.

[Jim Avery]

Andy, as we both know well "Ship Happens".....😎

[just_dont]

Andy, as we both know well "Ship Happens".....[emoji41]

Ironically, that is the name of Viking Jupiter's Cruise Director's main performance show.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Andy, as we both know well "Ship Happens".....😎

Haha! So true.😀 🍺

[molymoo]

It is Wednesday morning and the Viking crew worked through the night to arrange and organize some very nice excursions for us.  They are free of charge and will keep us busy and entertained until this evening.  Mechanical assistance and parts arrived last night and all are optimistic that we will be on our way tonight.  

 

Not sure where we will be heading ... missed Edinburgh but Orkneys and Shetlands are ahead.  Might miss a stop but details have been scarce ... probably waiting to see if repairs and inspections go as hoped before fully committing to a plan.  

 

For the most part passengers seem to be taking things in stride.  We’re well fed and the bars are well stocked ... all good.  Travel is an adventure!

[Haworth]

2 hours ago, molymoo said:

It is Wednesday morning and the Viking crew worked through the night to arrange and organize some very nice excursions for us.  They are free of charge and will keep us busy and entertained until this evening.  Mechanical assistance and parts arrived last night and all are optimistic that we will be on our way tonight.  

 

Not sure where we will be heading ... missed Edinburgh but Orkneys and Shetlands are ahead.  Might miss a stop but details have been scarce ... probably waiting to see if repairs and inspections go as hoped before fully committing to a plan.  

 

For the most part passengers seem to be taking things in stride.  We’re well fed and the bars are well stocked ... all good.  Travel is an adventure!

Glad to hear that progress seems to be happening, wise to enjoy what you have rather than fret about what you have missed.

[chengkp75]

18 hours ago, PedroPedro said:

News Flash: 

 

The Viking Jupiter was just docked this morning in Tilbury, England after two tugs brought her in. 

 

Just like the disastrous Viking Sky incident in March, the ship lost propulsion capability and was adrift in open sea and only controlled by dragging anchors.

 

In an early broadcast the Captain said they believe the issue to be a failure in the AC to DC converter [or may have been the other way around]. 

 

Jupiter and the Sky are very new ships and loudly tout that they have full redundancy to not go down on any part failure, always capable to return to port under own power. Marketing vs reality. 

 

Serious safety issue. Because of severe weather, Sky (and passengers) were close to being smashed against shoals, a potential huge loss of life. What happened to her power plant has not yet been explained beyond a supposed basic loss of oil pressure. 

 

What ever happened to both ships’ “certified” full mechanical redundancy always to allow return to port under own power? These huge, dangerous failures need to be fully and openly explained including how defects have been corrected. 

 

Respectfully, Peter Spiller 

904 806-1274

 

Yeah, I'll feed the trolls and conspiracy theorists.  Who is Mr. Spiller, and what are his credentials?

 

Yes, there is a deeper conspiracy behind the Viking Sky, aided and abetted by the Norwegian Accident Investigation Board and the Norwegian Maritime Agency, who found that the "supposed" loss of oil pressure to be the root cause of the incident, much like the loss of oil pressure led to the loss of the SS El Faro.

 

Both of the Viking ships are built to the IMO's Safe Return to Port standards, and are certified as such by multiple third party agencies, like the flag state and the classification society.

 

As to this incident, obviously the ship did not lose all power, nor all propulsion power, and was able to return to port under its own power, as stated by someone onboard.  Because of the loss of one propeller, her steering capability is reduced, so the UK Coast & Maritime Agency decided that it required a tug escort to assist in steering, and in case another failure happened.

 

Was there a threat of loss of life in this incident?  Not anywhere close.  Will this be investigated, again by Norwegian and UK agencies?  Sure.  Will they "fully and openly explain" the causes of the failures with Mr. Spiller?  That would depend on the laws of those nations, not the US or Mr. Spiller's opinion.

 

And, yes, it sounds like the power converter for one propeller, that takes the 10,000 volt, 60 cycle power generated, and turns it into variable frequency (variable cycles) power to allow the propulsion motor to operate at varying speeds, failed.  This is what happened to Viking's first ocean ship back when it was new, and also a later ship, if I recall.  The very large power semi-conductors fail, and you lose the ability to run that motor.

[PedroPedro]

Hi Chengkp,

 

You make reasonable points and cite what may prove correct information.

 

Do you believe, however, that had the weather not been severe, the Viking Sky loss of power would not have been a life threatening situation? And that had the weather been equally rough that the Viking Jupiter situation would not have a been potentially deadly disaster, especially considering close to land?

 

If one Rolls-Royce Promas system were actually fully functional the Jupiter (which in addition  has multiple thrusters) would have been at least as maneuverable as almost all ships sailing those waters, so one can both conclude that  more impairment was involved and that Viking so far is (as usual) less than forthcoming with the full story (still waiting re: Sky).

 

When one starts out by questioning the knowledge of another person (an unsupported personal attack) one shadows ones own objectivity. I shared my real name and am easily searchable. 

 

How about you? 

 

[cocopico]

According to the Viking website:

 

“On July 2nd Viking Jupiter experienced a minor technical issue that resulted in reduced power to one of the ship’s propellers as it was sailing down the River Thames. The ship docked temporarily in Tilbury while the necessary repairs were made and is expected to resume sailing on July 3rd. An alternative program has been arranged for guests and the current itinerary is planned to finish on schedule. At this time there are no alterations anticipated for future itineraries.”

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, PedroPedro said:

Hi Chengkp,

 

You make reasonable points and cite what may prove correct information.

 

Do you believe, however, that had the weather not been severe, the Viking Sky loss of power would not have been a life threatening situation? And that had the weather been equally rough that the Viking Jupiter situation would not have a been potentially deadly disaster, especially considering close to land?

 

If one Rolls-Royce Promas system were actually fully functional the Jupiter (which in addition  has multiple thrusters) would have been at least as maneuverable as almost all ships sailing those waters, so one can both conclude that  more impairment was involved and that Viking so far is (as usual) less than forthcoming with the full story (still waiting re: Sky).

 

When one starts out by questioning the knowledge of another person (an unsupported personal attack) one shadows ones own objectivity. I shared my real name and am easily searchable. 

 

How about you? 

 

Had the weather not been severe, the Viking Sky incident would not have happened at all.  It was the combination of the pitching and rolling of the vessel, along with the lower than optimum oil level in the generators (still within limits, however) that caused the power failure.

 

As for either case being a deadly disaster, I don't believe that would have been the case in either incident.  While the Sky went aground near a rocky shore, ships today do not break up within minutes like wooden ships of old.  Given that the weather dropped markedly within a few hours, when the ship was able to be towed, even had she grounded, breached the hull, and flooded some compartments, and while it would have been uncomfortable and harrowing for the passengers, I don't feel that the ship would have broken up, and everyone could have been rescued when the weather abated.  The coastline where Jupiter went aground is pretty soft, sandy, if I recall, maybe Andy can verify, and again I don't believe the ship would have broken up.

 

If a ship has a failure of a propulsion system, even if only one of two, and the vessel is in restricted waterways (like a posted channel coming from a port, or a traffic separation scheme in congested waterways like the English Channel), it is typical for the ship to go to anchor until the cause of the problem can be sorted out.  The Jupiter has bow thrusters only, as I remember hearing that Viking decided against stern thrusters.  When ship speeds exceed about 3-5 knots, thrusters lose nearly 100% of effectiveness, due to the water flow past the tunnel creating low pressure, reducing the amount of water moved by the thruster.  Also, when a ship is moving forward, the turning center of the ship moves to be 1/3 back from the bow, so bow thrusters have less effect on turning the ship than the rudders all the way aft.

 

Since a poster on here that is onboard stated that the ship returned to port under its own power, I can't conclude that "more impairment" was involved, nor that Viking is "less than forthcoming".  As for the Sky, what more are you looking for?  The Norwegian agencies, third party agencies, that have no dog in the fight except to protect their own reputation, issued a report regarding that incident, so I guess you feel that they are incorrect?

 

As for my identity, I think my avatar places me in a group of about 100 people in the world, and that is enough for me.  I merely questioned qualifications to judge what is a "serious safety issue" or whether "certifications" are merely "marketing".  I have never made any secret of my 45 years as a sailing marine engineer, having served on nearly every type of commercial ocean going vessel, including cruise ships.  I think my posts speak for themselves.  I have defended cruise lines when CC hysteria takes over after an incident, giving rational explanations, and telling folks to wait until more information is available before jumping to unfounded conclusions, and I've been proven correct in most cases.  I have also castigated cruise lines when they are shown to have failed, like the idiot Schettino on the Concordia, and Carnival with the Splendor fire and the recent environmental issues.