Ncl refusing to refund cash.

[hallux]

Here's my take on how it sounds like it happened.

 

Cruise gets cancelled.  PCC offers to re-book on a later cruise that maybe cost a little less when discounts are factored, allowing them to use the 25% FCC bonus plus the money you've paid for the cancelled cruise (which has turned into FCC at this point because that first cruise was cancelled) to upgrade you to a Haven room.

 

That cruise now gets cancelled.  The fare you've paid is refunded to the original form of payment for the re-booked cruise, which is FCC.  At this point it doesn't matter what room you were booked in, you have a dollar value of FCC, not a credit in the form of a room category.

 

What you didn't realize was that your PCC didn't "shift" your money to the new booking.  The money for the initial cruise was put onto your account automatically as FCC when NCL was forced to cancel the cruise, which you accepted instead of getting a refund to your credit card (if you were eligible for that offer), then used for the re-booking.  At this point, as I noted above, the rebooking is seen as paid for by the FCC, so that's how the money is refunded.  Refund terms are actually laid out in the cruise contract.

[CUontheC]

14 minutes ago, jbcallender said:

They will not refund FCC.  I have written letters to every C-Level executive and was refused, and that after two cancellations.  I was told to call reservations if I had any questions.  I told them in the letter that if forced, we would book a cruise and they would get my money once, but they will not get a dime after that.  Since they have had my cash for 18 months now and long ago refunded it to someone else, I hope they are still in business so I can get my cruise.

 

Very frustrating.  They have had my money since 2019.  Seems like a long time to keep someone's money without them getting a cruise.  FCC or not.   But I show that I used my cash.  She specifically says that in her email to me.  She used the money that I had on the first cancelled cruise to move me up to the Haven.  So I agreed and did this.  Now I cannot get my cash.  Makes no sense to me.   I can comp you with today’s prices a Mini if you like and the upgrade to the Haven Spa Suite would be $650 per person. This is before adding the additional discounts that you have from the suspended sailing. Please advise what you would like to do. Your current reservation I only removed the air and just added the beverage. I haven’t changed anything else in the reservation

[jbcallender]

8 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Everyone who had a cruise cancelled had the option of receiving a CASH refund. Those who unilaterally cancelled themselves accepted the terms of those cancellations. 

Yeah, but.  The first cancellation, last April, you are thinking this is a 90 day or 120 day thing because that was the consensus at that point, let's just try it again.  Now, the second cancellation almost a year later with substantial protocol and potential itinerary changes looming  is a bit of a different animal. 

[CUontheC]

1 minute ago, hallux said:

Here's my take on how it sounds like it happened.

 

Cruise gets cancelled.  PCC offers to re-book on a later cruise that maybe cost a little less when discounts are factored, allowing them to use the 25% FCC bonus plus the money you've paid for the cancelled cruise (which has turned into FCC at this point because that first cruise was cancelled) to upgrade you to a Haven room.

 

That cruise now gets cancelled.  The fare you've paid is refunded to the original form of payment for the re-booked cruise, which is FCC.  At this point it doesn't matter what room you were booked in, you have a dollar value of FCC, not a credit in the form of a room category.

 

What you didn't realize was that your PCC didn't "shift" your money to the new booking.  The money for the initial cruise was put onto your account automatically as FCC when NCL was forced to cancel the cruise, which you accepted instead of getting a refund to your credit card (if you were eligible for that offer), then used for the re-booking.  At this point, as I noted above, the rebooking is seen as paid for by the FCC, so that's how the money is refunded.  Refund terms are actually laid out in the cruise contract.

Here is what she emailed me.  Remember this was very confusing for all of us who had these cruises cancelled early on.  And I book through the casino so she emailed me and said would cost me $650 pp to move to the Haven.  This was a cruise I already had booked.  Not one I booked after my cruise was cancelled.  So she moved cash to the booking.  Had it been FCC she would have said in the email, you will pay with FCC.  She did not.  Then she talks about the discounts.  Never ever saying hey if you do this you will get no money back.  Moving to the Haven for the $1300 was great so I took her up on this offer.   Now this cruise cancelled and no Haven unless I pay an additional $3000.   Now I can assure you the Haven room did not go up from 2020 to 2021 by $3000.  I wish I would have copied the cruise page showing the amount.   So why can't they offer it to me for what the real difference was?  See it all works out in their favor and not the consumer.   Now that seems awful for a cruise company, who you have cruised with enough times to be platinum, and who you have stock with to do this to their consumer.   I can comp you with today’s prices a Mini if you like and the upgrade to the Haven Spa Suite would be $650 per person. This is before adding the additional discounts that you have from the suspended sailing. Please advise what you would like to do. Your current reservation I only removed the air and just added the beverage. I haven’t changed anything else in the reservation

[hallux]

1 minute ago, CUontheC said:

So I agreed and did this.  Now I cannot get my cash.  Makes no sense to me

You agreed to accept the FCC.  At that point it's NCL's money and will forever be FCC.  It's unfortunate that it's this way in times where some people might really need the money, but NCL has stuck pretty close to existing refund policies throughout.  If they change now, imagine how many people they'd have to go back and retroactively offer an option for cash refund!

[mscdivina2016]

Just now, hallux said:

You agreed to accept the FCC.  At that point it's NCL's money and will forever be FCC.  It's unfortunate that it's this way in times where some people might really need the money, but NCL has stuck pretty close to existing refund policies throughout.  If they change now, imagine how many people they'd have to go back and retroactively offer an option for cash refund!

That may be true, but how do they keep breaking the law with it? In Florida you cannot put an expiration on a credit memo (FCC) gift card or gift certificate?

Steve

[CUontheC]

2 minutes ago, hallux said:

You agreed to accept the FCC.  At that point it's NCL's money and will forever be FCC.  It's unfortunate that it's this way in times where some people might really need the money, but NCL has stuck pretty close to existing refund policies throughout.  If they change now, imagine how many people they'd have to go back and retroactively offer an option for cash refund!

I just want my cash back.  She specifically says it will cost me $650 each.  How is that FCC?  She moved my money from one cruise to the other.  So what happens if the January 2022 cruise is a no go.  The get to hold my money from 2019 to past 2022?  Does they get to keep it forever and never offer me anything for it.  What if they want to say hey you can't even get the mini suite that they downgraded me to in 2022.  Just isn't right at all.  But if you think it is that is ok.  I just don't think this is right in any way.

[CUontheC]

21 minutes ago, jbcallender said:

Yeah, but.  The first cancellation, last April, you are thinking this is a 90 day or 120 day thing because that was the consensus at that point, let's just try it again.  Now, the second cancellation almost a year later with substantial protocol and potential itinerary changes looming  is a bit of a different animal. 

Of course it was the consensus.  After our cruise was cancelled in May NCL was still booking cruises for September of 2021.  I would have rebooked for that time but had another cruise with another line for that September 2021,  That was cancelled and my money was refunded.   

[hallux]

55 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

That may be true, but how do they keep breaking the law with it? In Florida you cannot put an expiration on a credit memo (FCC) gift card or gift certificate?

Steve

I don't know Florida law works or is applied in these situations.  It's possible it hasn't come to light until recent situations, but I would imagine if it was truly an issue there may have been SOME legal action along these lines by now.

[CUontheC]

7 minutes ago, hallux said:

I don't know Florida law works or is applied in these situations.  It's possible it hasn't come to light until recent situations, but I would imagine if it was truly an issue there may have been SOME legal action along these lines by now.

I just sent them another email.  I showed them all my emails that I sent to their representative.  I was very clear in my email back in April 2020 saying to the casino rep that I wanted a refund for my May 2020 and wanted to cancel my January 2021 cruise unless they can provide me with a good deal.  So she did give me a great deal.  Now of course it was cancelled and in order to get that deal they want to charge me another $3000 even though the Haven Spa suite did not go up that amount from 2020 to 2021.   Just because the cruise was cancelled does not mean they should not give me the deal I had so that I would not cancel.  I will see how they respond and go from there.  

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

That may be true, but how do they keep breaking the law with it? In Florida you cannot put an expiration on a credit memo (FCC) gift card or gift certificate?

Steve

They've continued to extend the dates to use the FCC...in fact they just extended the date again, so what law has been broken? Nothing has has expired. 

This was posted yesterday:

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by njhorseman

[mscdivina2016]

10 hours ago, njhorseman said:

They've continued to extend the dates to use the FCC...in fact they just extended the date again, so what law has been broken? Nothing has has expired. 

This was posted yesterday:

 

The mere fact that there is an expiration date for one.

Below is from Florida statutes chapter 501.95

Steve

 

(2)¹(a) A gift certificate purchased or credit memo issued in this state may not have an expiration date, expiration period, or any type of postsale charge or fee imposed on the gift certificate or credit memo, including, but not limited to, service charges, dormancy fees, account maintenance fees, or cash-out fees.

[njhorseman]

25 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

The mere fact that there is an expiration date for one.

Below is from Florida statutes chapter 501.95

Steve

 

(2)¹(a) A gift certificate purchased or credit memo issued in this state may not have an expiration date, expiration period, or any type of postsale charge or fee imposed on the gift certificate or credit memo, including, but not limited to, service charges, dormancy fees, account maintenance fees, or cash-out fees.

You've omitted some key wording in the statute that appears before the wording you cited. In my opinion cruise line FCC does not qualify as a "credit memo" under the law because a credit memo is specifically defined as being issued in exchange for returned merchandise.   A cruise is not merchandise, it's a service.

I'm willing to wager that the cruise lines' attorneys agree with my reading of the law and that's why the FCCs can carry an expiration date. 

 

"501.95 Gift certificates and credit memos.—

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) “Credit memo” means a certificate, card, stored value card, or similar instrument issued in exchange for returned merchandise"

 

 

 

[mscdivina2016]

22 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

You've omitted some key wording in the statute that appears before the wording you cited. In my opinion cruise line FCC does not qualify as a "credit memo" under the law because a credit memo is specifically defined as being issued in exchange for returned merchandise.   A cruise is not merchandise, it's a service.

I'm willing to wager that the cruise lines' attorneys agree with my reading of the law and that's why the FCCs can carry an expiration date. 

 

"501.95 Gift certificates and credit memos.—

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) “Credit memo” means a certificate, card, stored value card, or similar instrument issued in exchange for returned merchandise"

 

 

 

I did copy and paste only part of of it so I will post it all and highlight.

I guess we need an attorney to interpret it here😁

I had an incident with something a few years back and I came out the winner using the statute but there was a a small hitch, that ultimately worked in my favor. It came down to residency. I was/am a FL resident so they had no way out.

 It was NCL who used the term "Future cruise credit"  I have also seen the term future cruise certificate and future cruise coupon.

I guess we could also debate whether there was a breach. When one accepted the FCC to be used for booking a future cruise and one did and they cancelled it, why does it still stay FCC? It would appear that the agreement was fulfilled. In my case it was booked and cancelled for 10 cruises so far. Does this go on into perpetuity?  I am referring to the language from the existing notice from March of 2020.

So according to their letter as long as I apply it towards any future cruise booked thru 12/31/2022 I have complied with the agreement for taking the FCC? I have many times so after 12/31/2022 what happens? MSC is giving 100% refunds on 125% FCC if you do not use it by 12/21/2021.

Steve

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dear Valued Guests and Travel Partners, I’d like to share an important update about Norwegian Cruise Line’s response to COVID-19. With the virus impacting communities around the globe, we voluntarily suspended cruise voyages across our fleet through May 14, 2020. Today, we are extending this suspension through June 30, 2020. We plan to relaunch cruise operations with embarkations beginning July 1, 2020. Information follows for guests currently booked on voyages with embarkation dates from May 15 to June 30, 2020: · All guests on impacted voyages will automatically receive a 125% refund of the fare paid in the form of a future cruise credit, which can be applied toward any future cruise through December 31, 2022. This future cruise credit is valid for one year from the issue date and applicable towards all published sailings through December 31, 2022. All future cruise credits will be issued by Friday, May 1, 2020. Guests who take advantage of this option and rebook a new cruise through May 15, 2020 for any voyage in October through December 2020 or anytime in 2021 or 2022 will receive an additional 20% discount off any published price. The 125% refund and additional 20% discount provides tremendous value to our loyal guests; we are very pleased to be able to offer this terrific incentive. · A lesser value refund is also available for guests who do not wish to avail themselves of the 125% future cruise credit and 20% off future cruise discount. Those guests can request a refund of the fare paid to be reimbursed to the original form of payment 90 days after completing the request form at https://www.ncl.com/case-submission/peace-of-mind. The form will be available from May 7 to May 13, 2020. Policies for bookings made through Tour Operators or Wholesalers may vary, please contact your travel professional for full details. Working closely and in partnership with local,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

501.95 Gift certificates and credit memos.—

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) “Credit memo” means a certificate, card, stored value card, or similar instrument issued in exchange for returned merchandise when the certificate, card, or similar instrument is redeemable for merchandise, food, or services regardless of whether any cash may be paid to the owner of the certificate, card, or instrument as part of the redemption transaction.

(b) “Gift certificate” means a certificate, gift card, stored value card, or similar instrument purchased for monetary consideration when the certificate, card, or similar instrument is redeemable for merchandise, food, or services regardless of whether any cash may be paid to the owner of the certificate, card, or instrument as part of the redemption transaction, but this term shall not include tickets as specified in s. 717.1355 or manufacturer or retailer discounts and coupons.

[njhorseman]

32 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

I did copy and paste only part of of it so I will post it all and highlight.

 

I don't want to belabor the point, but the additional wording you've cited and highlighted doesn't change the fact that a credit memo is defined as being issued in return for returned merchandise. That the credit memo may then be useable for food or services in addition to merchandise doesn't modify the definition of credit memo in itself. It's crystal-clear and unambiguous...a credit memo is defined as being issued for returned merchandise, and  a cruise is not merchandise. A coat, a car, or a can of corn are merchandise, but not a cruise.

 

Further, I'd suggest that whether it's called a future cruise credit, a future cruise certificate or a future cruise coupon isn't meaningful in this context. As Shakespeare said  "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". The substantive issue is how Florida law defines "credit memo" and the future cruise credit, certificate or coupon was not issued for returned merchandise .

Edited February 11, 2021 by njhorseman

[mscdivina2016]

3 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

I don't want to belabor the point, but the additional wording you've cited and highlighted doesn't change the fact that a credit memo is defined as being issued in return for returned merchandise. That the credit memo may then be useable for food or services in addition to merchandise doesn't modify the definition of credit memo in itself. It's crystal-clear and unambiguous...a credit memo is defined as being issued for returned merchandise, and  a cruise is not merchandise. A coat, a car, or a can of corn are merchandise, but not a cruise.

 

Further, I'd suggest that whether it's called a future cruise credit, a future cruise certificate or a future cruise coupon isn't meaningful in this context. As Shakespeare said  "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". The substantive issue is how Florida law defines "credit memo" and the future cruise credit, certificate or coupon was not issued for returned merchandise .

I decided to ask the AG's office so it will take a few weeks for a response. I will post it here.

 I asked exactly what you stated above which is to define "credit memo" as it relates to the Future cruise credit that NCL has offered, does it apply nationwide or to FL residents only if applicable. 

In my email I told them I booked a cruise, cancelled in March of 2020, opted for FCC with my terms being I must book another by 12/31/2022 and I did on 7 occasions and all were cancelled by NCL but my credit had a condition which was it expired in a year which will be in a couple months.

Steve

For the record, I want the FCC.