Westbound Transatlantic - M117 Departs 9th June - What about the restrictions?

[Winchester Ranger]

So per Cunard’s website the next TA leaves for New York on June 9th, and they are still selling staterooms as I type.  Personally I cannot even remotely imagine that this cruise will actually happen, but here’s my question....
 

The official UK government website regarding COVID restrictions states the following:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-advice-novel-coronavirus

 

If you are in the UK you should not travel abroad. Under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, you must stay at home. You must not travel, including abroad, unless you have a legally permitted reason to do so. It is illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes.

 

So assuming there is no change in the law during the next 14 weeks anyone traveling on that cruise who is not returning to the US as a permanent resident or who is traveling for essential business reasons is by definition breaking UK law - which must be 90% of the passengers.

 

What am I missing here ?

 

So is anyone here actually booked on that cruise, and is it just a case of hoping the rules change before you sail ?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Winchester Ranger

[majortom10]

I think that either people from UK are either hoping either the rules will change allowing them to sail or Cunard cancel so they can get a refund for all monies paid.

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, Winchester Ranger said:

So per Cunard’s website the next TA leaves for New York on June 9th, and they are still selling staterooms as I type.  Personally I cannot even remotely imagine that this cruise will actually happen, but here’s my question....
 

The official UK government website regarding COVID restrictions states the following:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-advice-novel-coronavirus

 

If you are in the UK you should not travel abroad. Under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, you must stay at home. You must not travel, including abroad, unless you have a legally permitted reason to do so. It is illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes.

 

So assuming there is no change in the law during the next 14 weeks anyone traveling on that cruise who is not returning to the US as a permanent resident or who is traveling for essential business reasons is by definition breaking UK law - which must be 90% of the passengers.

 

What am I missing here ?

 

So is anyone here actually booked on that cruise, and is it just a case of hoping the rules change before you sail ?

Bigger question will the USA travel ban against the United Kingdom still be in effect? 

 

If so then the ship cannot sail by virtue of the entire British bridge crew being unable to enter the USA as they have not done quarantine in an approved country?. So surely that ends it there?

Edited February 17, 2021 by ace2542

[tacticalbanjo]

I'm not booked on that trip but one departing 16th June. I don't expect that we will be able to go but I really can't be bothered finding another trip to book amid all this uncertainty so I'm going to leave it until it gets cancelled.

[lindylooellalouise]

Hi we are booked on the 14 day transatlantic on June9th really don’t think it’s going to happen and waiting for it to be cancelled to get my refund👍

[untailored bostonian]

I believe modifications to no travel rules will be based on your vaccination status.

 

We are on a 21 day 2TA cruise out of NYC August 22nd.  Most Americans can be vaccinated by that date, and we absolutely will have been vacinated.  I feel secure that our cruise will happen. 

[lindylooellalouise]

We will have been vaccinated by then so who knows, fed up with all the uncertainty 

[chengkp75]

On 2/17/2021 at 2:15 PM, ace2542 said:

If so then the ship cannot sail by virtue of the entire British bridge crew being unable to enter the USA as they have not done quarantine in an approved country?. So surely that ends it there?

Well, given that Bermuda does not require licensed officers to be British on their ships, there is no requirement that the bridge crew (and engineering officers) be British.  Also, the US has recognized merchant mariners of any nation to be "essential workers" since the start of the pandemic, and as such are not bound by travel restrictions.

[ace2542]

15 hours ago, untailored bostonian said:

I believe modifications to no travel rules will be based on your vaccination status.

 

We are on a 21 day 2TA cruise out of NYC August 22nd.  Most Americans can be vaccinated by that date, and we absolutely will have been vacinated.  I feel secure that our cruise will happen. 

And to be the broken record once again. It will all depend upon the USA travel ban against UK citizens which affects the entire bridge crew of QM2. It may be lifted by August 22nd or it may not. There is no way to tell.

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, given that Bermuda does not require licensed officers to be British on their ships, there is no requirement that the bridge crew (and engineering officers) be British.  Also, the US has recognized merchant mariners of any nation to be "essential workers" since the start of the pandemic, and as such are not bound by travel restrictions.

That is a good interpretation if it holds true. And I will defer to your legal stance but I also don't think Cunard has a back up plan involving none Brit crew. To my knowledge though I may be incorrect all the bridge officers and captain of all 3 ships are British Nationals. 

 

 

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

That is a good interpretation if it holds true. And I will defer to your legal stance but I also don't think Cunard has a back up plan involving none Brit crew. To my knowledge though I may be incorrect all the bridge officers and captain of all 3 ships are British Nationals. 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think that there have been no ships bringing goods to the US for the last year?  It is not my "interpretation", it is my actual dealings with the USCG as a merchant mariner.

[ace2542]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Do you think that there have been no ships bringing goods to the US for the last year?  It is not my "interpretation", it is my actual dealings with the USCG as a merchant mariner.

Even if the ban doesn't effect the crew it is gonna effect the brit passengers. I can't imagine Cunard doing much of a crossing with Americans only operating at 50% capacity with half the passengers at least being brits that 50% will drop to 25%. And that is before you get to the restrictions onboard. No solo traveller meets, no lgbt meet no cruise critic etc etc. That will put a lot of people off. Statement of fact. If the LGBT and Solo Traveller followings can't get their experiences they like having they are gonna stay away. They have said so on here.

[untailored bostonian]

8 hours ago, ace2542 said:

And to be the broken record once again. It will all depend upon the USA travel ban against UK citizens which affects the entire bridge crew of QM2. It may be lifted by August 22nd or it may not. There is no way to tell.

Once countries demonstrate vaccination percentages that approach herd immunity limits, the travel rules will be changed.  

[untailored bostonian]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:00 AM, ace2542 said:

[...] And that is before you get to the restrictions onboard. No solo traveller meets, no lgbt meet no cruise critic etc etc. That will put a lot of people off. Statement of fact. If the LGBT and Solo Traveller followings can't get their experiences they like having they are gonna stay away. They have said so on here.

By mid-summer the UK will be close to fully vacinated.  The US will be 60%-70% vacinated with enough vaccine for everyone. Many Americans will refuse vaccinations for multitudes of specious reasons. "It will cause Alzheimer’s and ALS." "Covid is a fake and the vaccines are Bill Gates and George Soros's way to get richer. "  My favorite looney toon is the vaccines have mind controlling nanotechnology created by Gates, Fauci,  and the CCP that will be activated by 5G technology.

 

All that aside the real key is how these mutated forms propagate and how resistant they are to the vaccines.  Imnho, the Biden administration will lift the restrictions on the UK by the time we cruise.  I also assume England will reciprocate for those vacinated

 

But as you said, our cruise will face novel mitigation. I am certian everyone will need proof of being fully vacinated. Also the cruise will follow mask mandates, limited sized gatherings, restrictions perhaps on large seating in theaters and lounges.  Maybe pool access.. But that is still 6 months away and even those social mandates may be rolled back.

 

I have wondered how food services will be impacted. Maybe more options for in room dining and room service.

[majortom10]

6 minutes ago, untailored bostonian said:

By mid-summer the UK will be close to fully vacinated.  The US will be 60%-70% vacinated with enough vaccine for everyone. Many Americans will refuse vaccinations for multitudes of specious reasons. "It will cause Alzheimer’s and ALS." "Covid is a fake and the vaccines are Bill Gates and George Soros's way to get richer. "  My favorite looney toon is the vaccines have mind controlling nanotechnology created by Gates, Fauci,  and the CCP that will be activated by 5G technology.

 

All that aside the real key is how these mutated forms propagate and how resistant they are to the vaccines.  Imnho, the Biden administration will lift the restrictions on the UK by the time we cruise.  I also assume England will reciprocate for those vacinated

 

But as you said, our cruise will face novel mitigation. I am certian everyone will need proof of being fully vacinated. Also the cruise will follow mask mandates, limited sized gatherings, restrictions perhaps on large seating in theaters and lounges.  Maybe pool access.. But that is still 6 months away and even those social mandates may be rolled back.

 

I have wondered how food services will be impacted. Maybe more options for in room dining and room service.

P&O and Princess in this last week have cancelled all cruises from the UK in August and Cunard will follow suit very soon. The only thing leaving the UK cruise wise are ships cruising coastal waters with no ports of call with only UK guests onboard. I dont think even if Biden lifts restrictions QM2 will be anywhere the US in August and if it is and is allowed to cruise from the UK it will not be allowed to dock in the UK.

Edited March 7, 2021 by majortom10

[untailored bostonian]

4 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

P&O and Princess in this last week have cancelled all cruises from the UK in August and Cunard will follow suit very soon. The only thing leaving the UK cruise wise are ships cruising coastal waters with no ports of call with only UK guests onboard. I dont think even if Biden lifts restrictions QM2 will be anywhere the US in August and if it is and is allowed to cruise from the UK it will not be allowed to dock in the UK.

 

We're these cancelations based of governmental rulings?

 

My understanding is that anyone entering the UK had to quarentine in monitored locations for 14 days at there expense.  In the case of a ship, if you did not disembark that might not be an issue.  I also assume that in 6 months as the UK achieves herd immunity through vaccinations the rules will change.

 

When are the British quarentine rules extended to?  I'll see if I can find that too.

 

In general, by July first, in nations with high vaccinations rates,  I believe current restrictions will be altered.  As to not docking for fuel and supplies that could not happen today.

[ace2542]

28 minutes ago, untailored bostonian said:

By mid-summer the UK will be close to fully vacinated.  The US will be 60%-70% vacinated with enough vaccine for everyone. Many Americans will refuse vaccinations for multitudes of specious reasons. "It will cause Alzheimer’s and ALS." "Covid is a fake and the vaccines are Bill Gates and George Soros's way to get richer. "  My favorite looney toon is the vaccines have mind controlling nanotechnology created by Gates, Fauci,  and the CCP that will be activated by 5G technology.

 

All that aside the real key is how these mutated forms propagate and how resistant they are to the vaccines.  Imnho, the Biden administration will lift the restrictions on the UK by the time we cruise.  I also assume England will reciprocate for those vacinated

 

But as you said, our cruise will face novel mitigation. I am certian everyone will need proof of being fully vacinated. Also the cruise will follow mask mandates, limited sized gatherings, restrictions perhaps on large seating in theaters and lounges.  Maybe pool access.. But that is still 6 months away and even those social mandates may be rolled back.

 

I have wondered how food services will be impacted. Maybe more options for in room dining and room service.

I think Biden plans for enough vaccine quantity by May with single shot JJ. UK is moving very quickly and Europe starting now to pick up the pace. 

 

So my question which I have asked and we cannot answer but I will ask once again is will all vaccines be allowed for entry to USA? And other countries for that matter. It is by no means certain all vaccines currently in use worldwide will be approved by the CDC or the FDA or whomever. If the answer to that question is no that could cause a lot of bother.

[untailored bostonian]

25 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

 It is by no means certain all vaccines currently in use worldwide will be approved by the CDC or the FDA or whomever. If the answer to that question is no that could cause a lot of bother.

That will not be an issue for British and USA travelers. The AstraZeneca vacine will be approved in the US in less than 60 days.

 

As far as I know even now the USA has no enforced international travel restrictions.  Everyone entering the USA needs a negative covid test within 3 days of entery.  I do not expect these requirements to become stricter.

 

The British guidelines are expected to be lifted by July first, but they could be extended if new variants emerge.

Edited March 7, 2021 by untailored bostonian

[ace2542]

10 minutes ago, untailored bostonian said:

That will not be an issue for British and USA travelers. The AstraZeneca vacine will be approved in the US in less than 60 days.

 

As far as I know even now the USA has no enforced international travel restrictions.  Everyone entering the USA needs a negative covid test within 3 days of entery.  I do not expect these requirements to become stricter

I suspect the Astra Zeneca may not be approved for U.S usage. It is just a feeling I have. But we shall see.

 

And of course those Covid tests within 3 days of entry are at the mercy of the cruiselines and airlines having testing capacity.

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, untailored bostonian said:

 

We're these cancelations based of governmental rulings?

 

My understanding is that anyone entering the UK had to quarentine in monitored locations for 14 days at there expense.  In the case of a ship, if you did not disembark that might not be an issue.  I also assume that in 6 months as the UK achieves herd immunity through vaccinations the rules will change.

 

When are the British quarentine rules extended to?  I'll see if I can find that too.

 

In general, by July first, in nations with high vaccinations rates,  I believe current restrictions will be altered.  As to not docking for fuel and supplies that could not happen today.

The British government have said anyone arriving in the UK that has not travelled from or been in a red list country must quarantine for 10 days on their arrival at a designated hotel at a cost of £1750pp and there are only 5 airports you can arrive into England so no cruise ship will be allowed to dock in the UK. A decision on international holidays will be made on 12th May when there will be a review. With these rules in mind one can assume that cruise companies have decided to cancel cruises from Southampton. P&O until end of August on some of their ships other until the end of September, Princess have cancelled all UK cruises leaving Southampton until 25th September. They have both announced that those cruises will be replaced with "coastal water " cruises around the UK with only UK residents. Cunard are expected to announce something very similar in the near future.

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, majortom10 said:

The British government have said anyone arriving in the UK that has not travelled from or been in a red list country must quarantine for 10 days on their arrival at a designated hotel at a cost of £1750pp and there are only 5 airports you can arrive into England so no cruise ship will be allowed to dock in the UK. A decision on international holidays will be made on 12th May when there will be a review. With these rules in mind one can assume that cruise companies have decided to cancel cruises from Southampton. P&O until end of August on some of their ships other until the end of September, Princess have cancelled all UK cruises leaving Southampton until 25th September. They have both announced that those cruises will be replaced with "coastal water " cruises around the UK with only UK residents. Cunard are expected to announce something very similar in the near future.

Those cancellations are not just based upon UK issues. They are also happening because of the vaccine situation in Europe and closure of Europe. We are now at close to 33% of people having had at least 1 vaccine shot. Most of EU apart from Serbia is not even close to this figure.  And FWIW If still in effect when sailings resume for any line that hotel quarantine - if it where to be needed - will cost more than the cost of most cruises.

[untailored bostonian]

Personally if I board in NYC, sail for 21 days, then get off in NYC, I will be happy as a pig in slop.  If you stay on board you are not entering the country so you would not have to quarantine.

 

I have thought getting off in Norway might be the real problem.  Just feul up, load my grub,, and back to sea.

[majortom10]

9 hours ago, untailored bostonian said:

Personally if I board in NYC, sail for 21 days, then get off in NYC, I will be happy as a pig in slop.  If you stay on board you are not entering the country so you would not have to quarantine.

 

I have thought getting off in Norway might be the real problem.  Just feul up, load my grub,, and back to sea.

But do you honestly think if QM2 sailed in those conditions where you stayed on the ship for 21 days and not get off that Cunard would sell enough cabins to US cruisers with the same intent. I very much doubt it that is why your cruise will not happen unfortunately. UK cruisers would have problems flying to US and might have to isolate when they got there and then when they got off in UK they would have to quarantine so not practical for Uk citizens. US residents would be very constrictive if current conditions persist where when they got off in UK they would have to quarantine for 10 days at a cost of £1750pp again impractical for many. I have done many roundtrip TAs on QM2 from Southampton and you have the privilege of being allowed to stay on the ship in Southampton. If we decide not to disembark in New York for the day and wish to stay onboard we have to go through the farcical situation of getting of ship going through security and then have to wait in terminal to get back onboard.

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, untailored bostonian said:

Personally if I board in NYC, sail for 21 days, then get off in NYC, I will be happy as a pig in slop.  If you stay on board you are not entering the country so you would not have to quarantine.

 

I have thought getting off in Norway might be the real problem.  Just feul up, load my grub,, and back to sea.

Any cruise that begins or ends at a US port that is over 7 days duration is currently not allowed by the CDC.  Also, NY state has a quarantine in place, where anyone arriving from out of state must have a negative test within 3 days prior to entering the state, and then quarantine for 3 days, and get another negative test before you can leave quarantine.  Things can change by August, but I would be surprised if your cruise sails, or if you can get out of NYC in less than 3 days.

[untailored bostonian]

5 hours ago, majortom10 said:

But do you honestly think if QM2 sailed in those conditions where you stayed on the ship for 21 days and not get off that Cunard would sell enough cabins to US cruisers with the same intent. I very much doubt it that is why your cruise will not happen unfortunately. UK cruisers would have problems flying to US and might have to isolate when they got there and then when they got off in UK they would have to quarantine so not practical for Uk citizens. US residents would be very constrictive if current conditions persist where when they got off in UK they would have to quarantine for 10 days at a cost of £1750pp again impractical for many. I have done many roundtrip TAs on QM2 from Southampton and you have the privilege of being allowed to stay on the ship in Southampton. If we decide not to disembark in New York for the day and wish to stay onboard we have to go through the farcical situation of getting of ship going through security and then have to wait in terminal to get back onboard.

I will add a longer comment after I get to a better editor. 🤦‍♂️

 

Yes. Non-british, Irish, citizen getting off in London under the conditions of today's quarantine would need to face expensive quarantine. Those rules as of today are ending by July.

 

"By Step 4 which will take place no earlier than 21 June, the government hopes to be in a position to remove all legal limits on social contact."

 

If this is the case the quarentine requirement will be eliminated or revised. Reasonable minds may keep quarentine rules for unvacinated travelers,, but with proof of vaccinations and a negative covid test entry should be allowed.

 

There are ZERO problems flying into the US.  You need a negative covid test within 72 hours of your flight.  That is it.