Florida cruises

[LHT28]

Not looking good  

Someone will have to give in  hopefully not NCLH

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/desantis-snubs-ncl-doubling-down-vaccine-passport-ban

 

I will not be cruising out of Florida  anyway  but for those that do   you may have to take your chances

 

I am hoping Oceania  at least will sail from other embarkation ports

JMO

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

DeSantis will lose my vote if he continues to ban proof of vaccination for cruises out of Florida!

And, I will actively campaign against him on this one issue. He has been a great governor....but cruising is important to seniors in Florida and we want 100% vaccinated people cruising with us!

sheila

[nikless]

11 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

 

DeSantis will lose my vote if he continues to ban proof of vaccination for cruises out of Florida!

And, I will actively campaign against him on this one issue. He has been a great governor....but cruising is important to seniors in Florida and we want 100% vaccinated people cruising with us!

sheila

Agree

Something will change, its still early.  He is smart enough to know he's in a bad situation and may be trying to find a way out without losing face.  Calling NCL, the third largest cruiseline, "small" was a big mistake..

We are on a VCE to MIA cruise in November, only time the ship touches MIA is the last day, then it goes on to South America.  Was going to drive back home from MIA, but I think I will use O air.

[basor]

13 minutes ago, nikless said:

Agree

Something will change, its still early.  He is smart enough to know he's in a bad situation and may be trying to find a way out without losing face.  Calling NCL, the third largest cruiseline, "small" was a big mistake..

We are on a VCE to MIA cruise in November, only time the ship touches MIA is the last day, then it goes on to South America.  Was going to drive back home from MIA, but I think I will use O air.

We are on the same cruise and figured we will disembark in the Bahamas if this is still an issue in December.....but that is a long way off and lots of time for many changes, not going to worry about it now.

[mauibabes]

Basor and Nikless, we are on the same cruises with you on Riviera and agree, there are lots of decisions and changes that will take place long before we sail.  The decision we really need is IF Riviera will be sailing in October and November.  With Marina selected to sail August 29 and no other ships, anything written by anyone is pure conjecture and opinions based on some facts and some fiction.  
Everyone has a crystal ball and tea leaves to read to form opinions but time and experiences in all these foreign countries will give us a better understanding of what our sailing will be like.  I for one would like to see us vaccinated mature adults cruising just as we did in February 2020, no masks and private tours, etc. With Greece and Italy opening, Baltic countries opening to Marina in late August, I am sure my tea leaves suggesting normalcy could be right.  
 

Let’s buy some time and consider decisions as we draw closer to our final payment date and actually even beyond as we can cancel our trips and still get a full refund.  🙏👍🤞🛳🥂😇🍷

O will not do anything that will jeopardize us, the crew, the ships and their reputation.

Gerry

[Hlitner]

First, for our Florida friends I would not be too hard on the Governor since that anti vaccination passport bill is not relevant when we have a CDC who has still not issued a clear path forward to resume any cruise out of any US Port.  Yes, there has been some recent rhetoric, but the details necessary to move forward are still lacking.   But assuming the CDC finally works out some kind of agreement with the cruise lines (I will not hold my breath) then the new Florida law will be one more obstacle (which will possibly be tossed out by a Federal Judge).   I will admit to being puzzled by the Florida Legislature and Governor DeSantis who profess to support the restart of cruising but are fine with throwing up their own road block.  Frank del Rio said it best when he talked about simply pulling his ships out of Florida ports.  I am also very puzzled by Governor DeSantis's comment about NCL Holding (and Frank del Rio) and figure that the Governor has not had enough sleep or has been smoking some kind of funny weed.

 

Hank 

[basor]

26 minutes ago, mauibabes said:

Basor and Nikless, we are on the same cruises with you on Riviera and agree, there are lots of decisions and changes that will take place long before we sail.  The decision we really need is IF Riviera will be sailing in October and November.  With Marina selected to sail August 29 and no other ships, anything written by anyone is pure conjecture and opinions based on some facts and some fiction.  
Everyone has a crystal ball and tea leaves to read to form opinions but time and experiences in all these foreign countries will give us a better understanding of what our sailing will be like.  I for one would like to see us vaccinated mature adults cruising just as we did in February 2020, no masks and private tours, etc. With Greece and Italy opening, Baltic countries opening to Marina in late August, I am sure my tea leaves suggesting normalcy could be right.  
 

Let’s buy some time and consider decisions as we draw closer to our final payment date and actually even beyond as we can cancel our trips and still get a full refund.  🙏👍🤞🛳🥂😇🍷

O will not do anything that will jeopardize us, the crew, the ships and their reputation.

Gerry

Actually, we are on the Marina sailing from VCE to MIA so , at this time, we know we will be sailing...

[Hlitner]

11 minutes ago, basor said:

Actually, we are on the Marina sailing from VCE to MIA so , at this time, we know we will be sailing...

Perhaps, perhaps not, and perhaps from or to different ports.  Think about it.  Will the Marina be allowed to use the Venice cruise port?  I guess that depends on whether Venice decides if they should limit their port access to ships under/over 40,000 tons,  And then there is that issue of the CDC!  Who knows what they will do in the next 6 months.  While I do think it is increasingly unlikely, the CDC would simply (and unilaterally) extend their CSO and prohibit any ship from docking at a US Port or possible keep the CSO limit of 7 day cruises.  If that happens one wonder where the Marina will go (we are on the cruise that starts when you disembark).  

 

Hank

[basor]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

Perhaps, perhaps not, and perhaps from or to different ports.  Think about it.  Will the Marina be allowed to use the Venice cruise port?  I guess that depends on whether Venice decides if they should limit their port access to ships under/over 40,000 tons,  And then there is that issue of the CDC!  Who knows what they will do in the next 6 months.  While I do think it is increasingly unlikely, the CDC would simply (and unilaterally) extend their CSO and prohibit any ship from docking at a US Port or possible keep the CSO limit of 7 day cruises.  If that happens one wonder where the Marina will go (we are on the cruise that starts when you disembark).  

 

Hank

Venice has several ports that Marina can use...just might not be the beautiful one right downtown....disembarking not happening in Miami, no big deal - disembark in the Bahamas.  Since this itinerary only involves one US port, the disembarkation in MIA, what the CDC does or does not do will not impact this cruise.  Way too far away to worry about any of this as things are changing daily, if not hourly!

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, basor said:

Venice has several ports that Marina can use...just might not be the beautiful one right downtown....disembarking not happening in Miami, no big deal - disembark in the Bahamas.  Since this itinerary only involves one US port, the disembarkation in MIA, what the CDC does or does not do will not impact this cruise.  Way too far away to worry about any of this as things are changing daily, if not hourly!

I guess, since others read these threads, I need to address your comment.  Venice only has one port which is located just a few hundred yards from the island of Venice on another island in the Lagoon.  The cruise facility is within a long walking distance to Venice and also connected by a wonderful modern "People Mover" system. This is the port that has been under fire for many years and it is also immensely popular because coming or going a ship will transit through part of the Giudecca Canal which runs right in front of St Marks Square.  If a ship is unable to use this port (the Maritima) then the only other options are on the mainland (located on the other side of the long causeway).  The one often mentioned is Porto Marghera , but at the moment it is a commercial (not cruise) port.  Getting from that port (or any other port on the mainland) means using lots of buses over the causeway (I have no clue where they can go and park) or some kind of new water transfer system via relatively small boats (such as vaporettos).

 

Having been to Venice many times (on both cruise ships and driving trips) I will say that not going to the Maritima (the normal cruise port) would be a huge disappointment for nearly everyone.  Going to any other mainland port means not having the wonderful experience (one of the best in all of cruising) of moving past St Marks Square.  DW and I have been to hundreds of ports on 6 continents and cruising in and out of Venice would be among our top 5 favorite arrival/departure experiences in the world.

 

As to what you say about the CDC, not being able to disembark in Miami (or any other US port) would have a huge impact on your cruise (not to mention on the next cruise).  Using Miami means easy access to both MIA and FLL which offer lots of relatively low cost domestic flights not to mention many International flights.  Any other option means lots of inconvenience not to mention higher air fares.  As to "way too far away," I prefer to have these issues resolved before I shell out the big bucks for a final payment.  I want to be clear that this is no way the fault of "O" but they are simply the victim of the CDC which has caused nothing but grief for the cruise industry.

 

Hank

[basor]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I guess, since others read these threads, I need to address your comment.  Venice only has one port which is located just a few hundred yards from the island of Venice on another island in the Lagoon.  This is the port that has been under fire for many years and it is also immensely popular because coming or going a ship will transit through part of the Giudecca Canal which runs right in front of St Marks Square.  If a ship is unable to use this port (the Maritima) then the only other options are on the mainland (located on the other side of the long causeway).  The one often mentioned is Porto Marghera , but at the moment it is a commercial (not cruise) port.  Getting from that port (or any other port on the mainland) means using lots of buses over the causeway (I have no clue where they can go and park) or some kind of new water transfer system via relatively small boats (such as vaporettos).

 

Having been to Venice many times (on both cruise ships and driving trips) I will say that not going to the Maritima (the normal cruise port) would be a huge disappointment for nearly everyone.  Going to any other mainland port means not having the wonderful experience (one of the best in all of cruising) of moving past St Marks Square.  DW and I have been to hundreds of ports on 6 continents and cruising in and out of Venice would be among our top 5 favorite embarkation/debarkation experiences in the world.

 

As to what you say about the CDC, not being able to disembark in Miami (or any other US port) would have a huge impact on your cruise (not to mention on the next cruise).  Using Miami means easy access to both MIA and FLL which offer lots of relatively low cost domestic flights not to mention many International flights.  Any other option means lots of inconvenience not to mention higher air fares.  As to "way too far away," I prefer to have these issues resolved before I shell out the big bucks for a final payment.  I want to be clear that this is no way the fault of "O" but they are simply the victim of the CDC which has caused nothing but grief for the cruise industry.

 

Hank

Thank you for your detailed reply....we also have been to Venice many times on both cruises and land so are well aware of the different ports available.  Our very first Oceania cruise ,14 years ago, departed from Venice.  Such a spectacular way to start our Oceania cruise experience, sipping champagne as we sailed by St. Marks!   It will indeed be very disappointing and more of a hassle to not be able to use the beautiful "downtown" port but we have no control over what Venice decides to do.  

If Oceania is put in the position to have us disembark (and you embark) in a non US port, than arrangements will be made to transport us between the port used and Miami.  How and what those arrangements will be , who knows.  We have made our flight arrangements out of Miami for several days after disembarkation so we have flexibility to deal with whatever is involved at the time we disembark in December.

I believe you are still several months away from your final payment so time for your questions to be answered and issues resolved, however they will be resolved.

We are looking forward to returning to cruising on Oceania and "flexibility" is out motto these days.  When it is time for our final payment, we will decide if whatever we know at the time is acceptable and will make our final payment. 

 

 

[mauibabes]

Oops, mix up with Marina and Riviera itineraries. I got our Venice-Monte Carlo-Rome-Miami itinerary confused with your Marina itinerary.  Just hoping we can sail on Riviera.  
Gerry

[basor]

2 minutes ago, mauibabes said:

Oops, mix up with Marina and Riviera itineraries. I got our Venice-Monte Carlo-Rome-Miami itinerary confused with your Marina itinerary.  Just hoping we can sail on Riviera.  
Gerry

We feel lucky that we happened to be booked on Marina and keeping our fingers crossed for all other Oceania cruisers that their ships also sail soon!

 

[Hlitner]

34 minutes ago, basor said:

Thank you for your detailed reply....we also have been to Venice many times on both cruises and land so are well aware of the different ports available.  Our very first Oceania cruise ,14 years ago, departed from Venice.  Such a spectacular way to start our Oceania cruise experience, sipping champagne as we sailed by St. Marks!   It will indeed be very disappointing and more of a hassle to not be able to use the beautiful "downtown" port but we have no control over what Venice decides to do.  

If Oceania is put in the position to have us disembark (and you embark) in a non US port, than arrangements will be made to transport us between the port used and Miami.  How and what those arrangements will be , who knows.  We have made our flight arrangements out of Miami for several days after disembarkation so we have flexibility to deal with whatever is involved at the time we disembark in December.

I believe you are still several months away from your final payment so time for your questions to be answered and issues resolved, however they will be resolved.

We are looking forward to returning to cruising on Oceania and "flexibility" is out motto these days.  When it is time for our final payment, we will decide if whatever we know at the time is acceptable and will make our final payment. 

 

 

Our final payment date was supposed to be later this month (May).  But I have good reason to believe (I have not checked with my cruise agent) that 'O" may have pushed that back until late June.   We are really looking forward to the "O" cruise and will get to the Marina no matter what port is used :).  To be very honest, we are sick and tired of all the uncertainty about everything having to do with cruises involving the CDC!  This has led us to book two other cruises (in the next few months) that do not involve any US  port.  I think of myself as a strong person who has managed to avoid addiction to any vice.  But I will plead guilty to an addiction to cruises and cruise ships.  When we board our Seabourn cruise in Pireaus (late July) it will be the first time we have stepped on a cruise ship in 20 months!  DW reminds me that we have not gone that long without a cruise in about forty years!   ARGH.  I desperately need my cruise fix.  (pardon me for the emotional rant).  The Marina had best be part of our near future plans or I might break down and cry.

 

Hank

[basor]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Our final payment date was supposed to be later this month (May).  But I have good reason to believe (I have not checked with my cruise agent) that 'O" may have pushed that back until late June.   We are really looking forward to the "O" cruise and will get to the Marina no matter what port is used :).  To be very honest, we are sick and tired of all the uncertainty about everything having to do with cruises involving the CDC!  This has led us to book two other cruises (in the next few months) that do not involve any US  port.  I think of myself as a strong person who has managed to avoid addiction to any vice.  But I will plead guilty to an addiction to cruises and cruise ships.  When we board our Seabourn cruise in Pireaus (late July) it will be the first time we have stepped on a cruise ship in 20 months!  DW reminds me that we have not gone that long without a cruise in about forty years!   ARGH.  I desperately need my cruise fix.  (pardon me for the emotional rant).  The Marina had best be part of our near future plans or I might break down and cry.

 

Hank

You eloquently echo the feelings of so many of us......right now we need to be enjoying breakfast on the Terrace verandah as the world slips by  

[LHT28]

Hank

usually the smaller O  ships docked at San Basilio  not Marittima

Moot point now

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56592109

 

What  any of this has to do with Florida & their  Governor is  beyond  me  🙄

[basor]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

Hank

usually the smaller O  ships docked at San Basilio  not Marittima

Moot point now

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56592109

 

What  any of this has to do with Florida & their  Governor is  beyond  me  🙄

Due to Oceania cruises that begin in Europe and ending in Miami this Fall/Winter so where cruisers disembark is involved

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, basor said:

Due to Oceania cruises that begin in Europe and ending in Miami this Fall/Winter so where cruisers disembark is involved

If the CDC allows cruises in the USA ports  it will not be  a problem

 

Those cruises starting in Europe  will not be  a problem as most Countries will probably allow the cruise lines to ask for proof of vaccination

If they dock in Miami...   Florida  do not care  if you have been vaccinated or not

[Lorna Doone]

So glad that Oceania is requiring all to be vaccinated.  We are booked in Dec and we would have cancelled if this was not the policy.

[nikless]

7 hours ago, basor said:

Due to Oceania cruises that begin in Europe and ending in Miami this Fall/Winter so where cruisers disembark is involved

The Marina TA is also scheduled to stop in San Juan, so CDC rules will apply there.  Unless they skip that stop.

I thought I had read somewhere that in Venice, the ships will dock in Marghera.  There is an MSC ship scheduled in early June.

Also - final payment on my invoice shows June 12th

[Aloha 1]

Here's the latest on the Florida lawsuit against the CDC:

 

 South Florida Sun Sentinel
Cruise lines, their customers, the state of Florida and the U.S. government will have to wait a little longer to learn whether a federal order keeping ships idled can stand.
A Tampa federal judge overseeing the state’s civil case against the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention referred the matter to a mediator Tuesday with instructions to hear the positions of both sides before June 1.
Mediators are typically summoned in the hopes of coaxing both sides into settling their differences outside the court. In the cruise line dispute, Judge Steven Merryday was required to name a mediator under local rules governing civil cases in the Middle District of Florida, said Robert Jarvis, law professor at Nova Southeastern University.
“The idea is to get cases out of the system as fast as possible,” Jarvis said. “In many cases you don’t need a trial. What you need is a neutral to sit down with the parties.”
The state’s lawsuit, filed April 8 in U.S. District Court in Tampa, names as defendants the CDC and the Department of Health and Human Services, as well as the agencies’ appointed leaders. It claims the CDC’s COVID-19 prevention guidelines for cruise ships are “arbitrary and capricious,” unconstitutional, and violate federal laws governing administrative procedures.
Two weeks later, the state asked the court to immediately overturn the CDC’s “conditional sail order” that has kept cruise lines from operating from U.S. ports pending a series of steps by each company to ensure safe voyages for passengers and crew.
Last Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Steven Merryday held a three-hour, 49-minute hearing on the matter.
Lawyers from the Florida attorney general’s office argued the agency overstepped its authority by imposing a multistep process for cruise lines to safely resume operating from U.S. ports after more than year of no service.
The industry shut down in March 2020 after a number of passengers aboard its ships contracted the coronavirus. Since then, the state argued in its lawsuit, the industry and local economies have suffered catastrophic financial losses.
Florida Gov, Ron DeSantis, who for months has advocated the elimination of COVID-related restrictions on businesses and industries around the state, has vigorously opposed the process the CDC established for resuming cruises.
Justice Department lawyers countered that the state has no authority to dictate when and where the companies can resume service. In court papers, government lawyers also said the state had allowed an entire year to pass without taking any action.
Although Merryday told both sides he would try to expedite a decision, he named Tampa attorney Joseph H. Varner III to serve as mediator with another local lawyer, James Percival, serving as his lead attorney.
The judge also allowed the American Society of Travel Advisors, a Washington-based trade group of travel agents, to file a friend of the court brief to support the state’s argument about economic damages suffered by the industry and communities outside Florida. The federal government opposed the filing, arguing in court papers that ASTA’s request came too late under court rules.
But in a separate order Tuesday, Merryday gave the group until Friday to file its papers.
“Plainly, the outcome of this case will affect far more Americans than just the 159,000 Floridians whose livelihoods are tied in one way or another to the cruise industry,” ASTA lawyers wrote in their petition to be heard.. “Indeed, they represent but a small percentage of those impacted by the defendants’ actions when viewed in strictly economic terms.
“That being said, the impact goes well beyond the economic, as this case raises broader and concerns about the freedom of individuals to travel as they see fit and infringes upon their fundamental rights,” ASTA asserted.
“This aspect is particularly worthy of the court’s serious consideration given that the defendants, as administrative agencies, have been largely unchecked and are, for all intents and purposes, unaccountable for the consequences of their actions,” the society’s lawyers added. “Should ASTA be permitted to intervene … it will provide a broader analysis of the situation from the perspective of both the industry outside of Florida as well as the traveling public at large.”

[GeorgesGal]

On 5/15/2021 at 5:42 PM, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

 

DeSantis will lose my vote if he continues to ban proof of vaccination for cruises out of Florida!

And, I will actively campaign against him on this one issue. He has been a great governor....but cruising is important to seniors in Florida and we want 100% vaccinated people cruising with us!

sheila

Last week I sent a letter to my Governor, Ron Desantis asking, pleading with him to discontinue this ban, pointing out to him that requiring proof of vaccination is no more of a HIPPA violation than the airlines being required by Congress to screen passengers returning to the USA from abroad, which he seems comfortable with.  The letter was also published in our local newspaper.

 

Still waiting to hear from him.

Donna

[LHT28]

Are the screening tests a choice or  is it mandatory?

 

Good  for you for expressing your thought to him

 

[GeorgesGal]

1 minute ago, LHT28 said:

Are the screening tests a choice or  is it mandatory?

 

Good  for you for expressing your thought to him

 

Those tests are mandatory for anyone - citizens of USA or otherwise - entering the USA.  I believe it is CDC's command.  And thank you for your kind words; now if only he would listen to a voice of reason!

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

36 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said:

Last week I sent a letter to my Governor, Ron Desantis asking, pleading with him to discontinue this ban, pointing out to him that requiring proof of vaccination is no more of a HIPPA violation than the airlines being required by Congress to screen passengers returning to the USA from abroad, which he seems comfortable with.  The letter was also published in our local newspaper.

 

Still waiting to hear from him.

Donna

Hi Donna

I sent a letter directly to the governor, as well. Except for the canned thank you citizen note, I have not had an answer from his office…. Maybe he will understand the harm he is causing. 
I agree with you… regarding HIPPA.. 

I do not think his principles regarding privacy should trump my rights to travel on a ship with fully vaccinated folks!

Lets keep fighting this…

sheila