Updated CDC guidance

[bdever]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

You and I both know that will not last forever, may not even last another month.  The CDC's constantly changing guidance has made it clear masks are not required by fully vaxxed pax, so the Alaskan cruises will not need masks, regardless of what Carnival's current guidance says - which they have stated (via John Heald) will be changed by month end.

On the contrary I think the mask mandate is going to last until the CSO expires in November at the least. 
Carnival is choosing to sail both unvaccinated and vaccinated passengers together which means they have a choice: 

a) enforce the mask mandate on unvaccinated passengers along with all the other restrictions for unvaccinated passengers 

b) not have to enforce separate guidelines by having everyone on board adhere to the same protocols 

Which one do you think 🤔 they are going to do practically speaking????

[embarkation75]

14 minutes ago, stellarose said:

how did celebrity get permission with paid cruisers out of Florida....

Simple, it is not a test cruise as vaccinated only cruises can completely skip that step with paid passengers.

[stellarose]

3 minutes ago, embarkation75 said:

Simple, it is not a test cruise as vaccinated only cruises can completely skip that step with paid passengers.

but thought florida can't ask for vaccines?  

[embarkation75]

7 minutes ago, stellarose said:

but thought florida can't ask for vaccines?  

Apparently that law doesn't have jurisdiction over cruising as it appears Celebrity was told that. As was stated by others, "FL has no jurisdiction over international travel or areas under Federal control or jurisdiction".

Edited May 27, 2021 by embarkation75

[lobster1313]

1 hour ago, nanowerx said:

When I booked my cruise the ticket contract didn't have a mask mandate... 

It is now because the CDC requires it.

[cruisingguy007]

1 hour ago, stellarose said:

how did celebrity get permission with paid cruisers out of Florida....

 

Desantis has said today in response:

 

"Companies doing business in Florida, including Celebrity Cruises, should immediately cease to impose such discriminatory policies upon individuals. Companies that violate this law would be subject to a fine of $5,000 each time they require a customer to present a 'vaccine passport' for service."

 

It remains to be seen how this will go down. Sounds like he isn't backing down so he will either cave, a lawsuit will settle it, or cruise lines will not sail out of Florida. Stay tuned! 

[TNcruising02]

7 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Desantis has said today in response:

 

"Companies doing business in Florida, including Celebrity Cruises, should immediately cease to impose such discriminatory policies upon individuals. Companies that violate this law would be subject to a fine of $5,000 each time they require a customer to present a 'vaccine passport' for service."

 

It remains to be seen how this will go down. Sounds like he isn't backing down so he will either cave, a lawsuit will settle it, or cruise lines will not sail out of Florida. Stay tuned! 

That's a big statement.  It definitely sounds like he prefers the cruise lines to go the test cruise route.  A $5,000 fine for every passenger is really not an option for a cruise line.  It looks like Celebrity might be better off finding a port outside of Florida.  I don't know how any line can be planning to cruise out of Florida with only vaccinated passengers if they don't have a legal way to do it.

"Earlier today, the governor's office told WFTS, "The CDC has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise. Moreover, the CDC has acknowledged, on record, that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now the CDC provides coercive guidance” in the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization, requiring cruise ships to violate state law."

Edited May 27, 2021 by TNcruising02

[stellarose]

grab the popcorn

 

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

That's a big statement.  It definitely sounds like he prefers the cruise lines to go the test cruise route.  A $5,000 fine for every passenger is really not an option for a cruise line.  It looks like Celebrity might be better off finding a port outside of Florida.  I don't know how any line can be planning to cruise out of Florida with only vaccinated passengers if they don't have a legal way to do it.

"Earlier today, the governor's office told WFTS, "The CDC has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise. Moreover, the CDC has acknowledged, on record, that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now the CDC provides coercive guidance” in the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization, requiring cruise ships to violate state law."

 

Cheese and crackers. They just started mediation today. But cruise lines can require anything they want. They could call it a vaccine certificate or anything else. Destination ports could require anything they want. I expect no result from the mediation and the first lawsuit to be tossed.

 

Cruise lines have avoided lawsuits, but they should be able to get the Florida law put on hold for a while.

[cruisingguy007]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Cheese and crackers. They just started mediation today. But cruise lines can require anything they want. They could call it a vaccine certificate or anything else. Destination ports could require anything they want. I expect no result from the mediation and the first lawsuit to be tossed.

 

Cruise lines have avoided lawsuits, but they should be able to get the Florida law put on hold for a while.

 

Interesting angle and a very valid point. Laws are very specific and narrowly interpreted. Specifying a "vaccine passport" may make circumventing it very easy. The plot thickens! 

[lobster1313]

The law doesn't use vaccine passport.

 

(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

Edited May 27, 2021 by regoodwinjr

[Tippyton]

1 hour ago, TNcruising02 said:

That's a big statement.  It definitely sounds like he prefers the cruise lines to go the test cruise route.  A $5,000 fine for every passenger is really not an option for a cruise line.  It looks like Celebrity might be better off finding a port outside of Florida.  I don't know how any line can be planning to cruise out of Florida with only vaccinated passengers if they don't have a legal way to do it.

"Earlier today, the governor's office told WFTS, "The CDC has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise. Moreover, the CDC has acknowledged, on record, that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now the CDC provides coercive guidance” in the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization, requiring cruise ships to violate state law."

This....

[BlerkOne]

30 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

The law doesn't use vaccine passport.

 

(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

All the CDC has to say is no vaccine, no cruise. Which is what they basically have already said. Vaccine or test cruise. If a cruise line follows the option A government guidance, the law is irrelevant, and I suspect will fail with the first challenge anyway.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, TNcruising02 said:

That's a big statement.  It definitely sounds like he prefers the cruise lines to go the test cruise route.  A $5,000 fine for every passenger is really not an option for a cruise line.  It looks like Celebrity might be better off finding a port outside of Florida.  I don't know how any line can be planning to cruise out of Florida with only vaccinated passengers if they don't have a legal way to do it.

"Earlier today, the governor's office told WFTS, "The CDC has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise. Moreover, the CDC has acknowledged, on record, that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now the CDC provides coercive guidance” in the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization, requiring cruise ships to violate state law."

By denying the cruise lines choice to pick which option they prefer, is not the law coercive overreach?

[jedi bobs]

Even test cruises they have to ask who is vacanated or not vacinated correct?

 

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, jedi bobs said:

Even test cruises they have to ask who is vacanated or not vacinated correct?

 

Good point! I'm sure there is a mandatory health assessment questionnaire that is required to be completed.

[TNcruising02]

12 minutes ago, jedi bobs said:

Even test cruises they have to ask who is vacanated or not vacinated correct?

 

No. They can have the passengers fill out a form.  Either one OR the other:
 

• The cruise ship operator must ensure all volunteer passengers have either:
  • Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO); or
  • If not fully vaccinated, written documentation from a healthcare provider or self-certified statement that the volunteer passenger has no medical conditions that would place the volunteer at high risk for severe COVID-19 as determined through CDC guidance.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html

[lobster1313]

14 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

By denying the cruise lines choice to pick which option they prefer, is not the law coercive overreach?

It's all rhetoric at this point and it will all go away when Celebrity Edge sails out of Port Everglades with proof of vaccination that will be required by the first port of call.

[TNcruising02]

I thought the law was that businesses in Florida can't require proof of vaccination for service.  If they do test cruises, it appears they can ask passengers for either proof of vaccination or a self-certified statement.  In either of these options for the test cruises, they aren't denying service because they will accept either one or the other.

[sm3ds]

24 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I thought the law was that businesses in Florida can't require proof of vaccination for service.  If they do test cruises, it appears they can ask passengers for either proof of vaccination or a self-certified statement.  In either of these options for the test cruises, they aren't denying service because they will accept either one or the other.

They can't ask for proof. As I understand you fill out a health statement saying you've been vaccinated. Basically the honor system

[lobster1313]

1 minute ago, sm3ds said:

They can't ask for proof. As I understand you fill out a health statement saying you've been vaccinated. Basically the honor system

The cruises are for the CDC so they will be asking for proof of vaccination.

[sm3ds]

12 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

The cruises are for the CDC so they will be asking for proof of vaccination.

The test cruises yes. 

[sm3ds]

51 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

It's all rhetoric at this point and it will all go away when Celebrity Edge sails out of Port Everglades with proof of vaccination that will be required by the first port of call.

Good thing it's before July 1 or they would get a big fine. 

[TNcruising02]

It still sounds like the cruise lines can ask for vaccine information or self-certification for test cruises.  Asking for one or the other is not requiring vaccination proof in order to sail on a test cruise:

 

"Additionally, the legislation codifies the prohibition of COVID-19 vaccine passports. Governor DeSantis enacted this prohibition through an executive order last month, blocking any business or government entity from requiring proof of COVID-19 vaccination."

 

[BlerkOne]

44 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I thought the law was that businesses in Florida can't require proof of vaccination for service.  If they do test cruises, it appears they can ask passengers for either proof of vaccination or a self-certified statement.  In either of these options for the test cruises, they aren't denying service because they will accept either one or the other.

I think it is proof of vaccination or a doctor certifying the passenger is not a high risk candidate.

 

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

That's a big statement.  It definitely sounds like he prefers the cruise lines to go the test cruise route.  A $5,000 fine for every passenger is really not an option for a cruise line.  It looks like Celebrity might be better off finding a port outside of Florida.  I don't know how any line can be planning to cruise out of Florida with only vaccinated passengers if they don't have a legal way to do it.

"Earlier today, the governor's office told WFTS, "The CDC has no legal authority to set any sort of requirements to cruise. Moreover, the CDC has acknowledged, on record, that the federal government chose not to make a legal requirement for vaccine passports. Now the CDC provides coercive guidance” in the absence of any federal law or congressional authorization, requiring cruise ships to violate state law."

 

I think the CDC's arguments are stronger - No cruise line joined Florida's lawsuit (lacks standing) and Florida unreasonably delayed bringing the suit (waited over a year).