Docking in Venice? Apparently not...

[GottaKnowWhen]

Apologies if this has been discussed to death already...

 

For several years, with good reason, residents of Venice have been concerned by the damage done by large ships entering the lagoon and docking on one of the Venetian islands. Venice has long been a favorite spot for us, whether as a vacation target in its own right, or as a place to cruise from/to.

 

And I've wondered what would happen if the region and the Italian government  were ever able to come to an agreement on banning large ships. Move the cruises across the lagoon to Mestra cargo-ship docks? It seems that decisions have been made and the time has come.

 

I was just browsing through one of Celebrity's daily "Come Explore New Destinations with Us" emails, I noticed some trips in/out of Venice. On closer inspection, it is not really Venice. Just as they don't sail to Rome, they sail to Rome (Civitavecchia) and they don't stop in Florence, they stop in Florence (Livorno). And now, rather than sailing to/from Venice, we are offered Venice (Ravenna). Ravenna is a nice little city, and the drive to/from Venice from there is pleasant enough. In Ravenna there are several buildings featuring fantastic mosaic work; the Cathedral comes to mind, but I would need to check my notes for details. And it seems a pleasant place. 

 

But Ravenna is not Venice. For those of you who have not spent time in Venice, don't give up the chance to spend a few days there before or after a cruise out of Venice (Ravenna). But you'll miss out on the magic of an early morning foggy glide up the lagoon into Venice.

 

Stan

 

[mom says]

This is the previous thread discussing Venice cruise ship ban

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2802544-left-in-the-dark/?tab=comments#comment-61847623

 

[chemmo]

16 minutes ago, GottaKnowWhen said:But Ravenna is not Venice. For those of you who have not spent time in Venice, don't give up the chance to spend a few days there before or after a cruise out of Venice (Ravenna). But you'll miss out on the magic of an early morning foggy glide up the lagoon into Venice.

 

 

 

Agree! Much as we support the decision of the Italian authorities to protect Venice we will remember forever cruising into and out of Venice.

 

As a cruise comes up with Ravenna as a start/finish point I am sure we will add on a pre or post cruise Venice stay. In addition we will enjoy Ravenna itself...I believe it has fantastic mosaics!

[chemmo]

33 minutes ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by chemmo

[GottaKnowWhen]

27 minutes ago, mom says said:

This is the previous thread discussing Venice cruise ship ban

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2802544-left-in-the-dark/?tab=comments#comment-61847623

 

Thanks for that. Instead of looking for threads about Venice, I guess I should have been looking for yet another thread about people complaining about Celebrity. 

 

The Venice situation particularly hits home for me because next Monday, Sept. 27th, if all had gone according to pre-covid plans, we would have flown to Venice, after a few days would have boarded Constellation, first around the Eastern Med, then over to Civitavecchia , than across to Tampa. I was really really looking forward to that trip, not least because of the time upfront in Venice. But I can't blame Celebrity, and I applaud their proactive attempts to ameliorate the impact all of these changes have on us as their clients.

 

Stan 

[GottaKnowWhen]

I went back to my notes from our 2017 cruise from Venice. We spent several days in Venice after the cruise. A friend from Naples joined us (he had a car, I don't recall if it was his that he had driven there, or if he had come by train and rented a car in Mestre) and one day we drove to Ravenna and spent the day with a mutual friend who lives there.  Our (edited) notes from that day trip...

 

There is an interesting monastery on the way to Ravenna — Pomposa.  Very interesting, has a small well designed museum.  Nice grounds. Arrived in Ravenna, parked the car and found Dario...  Bought a ticket for entrance to 5 sites, actually had time to only visit 4 of them. Amazing mosaic decoration in the buildings including a Mausoleum, and a Basilica, centuries old, dating back to the period Constantinople ruled Ravenna.  Ravenna is older than Rome and was once the capital of the Western Roman Empire.  Wide streets, nice shops.  Beautiful mosaics.

 

Others have pointed out the mosaics, but I wanted to also note the monastery visit on the road from Venice to Ravenna, as well as the history of this ancient city. Relocating cruises from Venice provides an opportunity to visit a fascinating city that most would otherwise never see.

Stan

[cruisemom42]

History buff here, so please indulge me...

 

While Ravenna is a beautiful little city and has some of the most wonderful late-antique mosaics I've ever seen, I did want to set straight that it is not older than Rome! Both cities have early "origins" lost in time, but Ravenna was not a particularly large or important place during the early Roman republic. Augustus founded a port there, Classis (still can see the ruins today, along with the earlier version of the basilica), in about 39 BC which really started to put it on the map. (At which point the Roman republic was already about 500 years old....)

 

Ravenna became the Western capital of the Roman empire after Rome was sacked by the Goths and Vandals in the 4th and 5th centuries.  As such, it wasn't really "ruled by" Constantinople, although arguably Constantinople was the senior partner. Following this it was captured and ruled by the Ostragoths and then (later) was reconquered and became part of the Byzantine empire.

 

Anyway, it's well worth spending some time in Ravenna and -- pro tip 😉 -- the food is also fantastic there. I rather hope it doesn't become spoiled with cruise ship traffic, but I think the port is somewhat limited in terms of either size or number of ships, so hopefully not.

 

[GottaKnowWhen]

13 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

History buff here, so please indulge me...

 

While Ravenna is a beautiful little city and has some of the most wonderful late-antique mosaics I've ever seen, I did want to set straight that it is not older than Rome! Both cities have early "origins" lost in time, but Ravenna was not a particularly large or important place during the early Roman republic. Augustus founded a port there, Classis (still can see the ruins today, along with the earlier version of the basilica), in about 39 BC which really started to put it on the map. (At which point the Roman republic was already about 500 years old....)

 

Ravenna became the Western capital of the Roman empire after Rome was sacked by the Goths and Vandals in the 4th and 5th centuries.  As such, it wasn't really "ruled by" Constantinople, although arguably Constantinople was the senior partner. Following this it was captured and ruled by the Ostragoths and then (later) was reconquered and became part of the Byzantine empire.

 

Anyway, it's well worth spending some time in Ravenna and -- pro tip 😉 -- the food is also fantastic there. I rather hope it doesn't become spoiled with cruise ship traffic, but I think the port is somewhat limited in terms of either size or number of ships, so hopefully not.

 

My "history" notes came from my friend Dario, a lifelong resident. Your comments led me to do a quick wikipedia look. I'll defer to your greater knowledge, but I think we are both "right" with varying emphasis on details. E.g., "... in 540 Ravenna was occupied by the great Byzantine general Belisarius and was subsequently made an imperial exarchate..." Doesn't that mean that the city was ruled by Constantinople?  The key point though is that Ravenna was influenced by both West and East:

 "...As the capital city of the Western Roman Empire for 250 years and a major port of entry for the Eastern (Byzantine) Empire, Ravenna reflects in its art and architecture a fusion of Roman architectural forms with Byzantine mosaics and other decoration..." 

In short, a wonderful place to visit, quite unique in many respects, and the food is indeed wonderful. I hope to be able to revisit one of these years...

 

Stan

[cruisemom42]

34 minutes ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

My "history" notes came from my friend Dario, a lifelong resident. Your comments led me to do a quick wikipedia look. I'll defer to your greater knowledge, but I think we are both "right" with varying emphasis on details. E.g., "... in 540 Ravenna was occupied by the great Byzantine general Belisarius and was subsequently made an imperial exarchate..." Doesn't that mean that the city was ruled by Constantinople?

 

Yes, that is true and I mention the same point in my post -- but that was not until later. You originally said that the mosaics were "dating back to the period Constantinople ruled Ravenna" -- and that is what I was attempting to set straight.

 

In fact the time span for the splendid mosaics dates from the period when Ravenna was the Western Roman capital (e.g., the tomb of Galla Placidia, the Neonian baptistery, San Vitale) through the Ostragoth period (the Arian baptistery, Archiepiscopal chapel, Sant' Apollinare Nuovo). And in fact the other two basilicas were complete or very nearly so by the time the Byzantines recaptured Ravenna, so although there were a few last-minute commissions (such as the mosaic of Justinian and his empress Theodora), these are the exception.

 

Upshot of the story:  the mosaics are quite fabulous -- here more than anywhere else one can see the transition from the 'classic' Roman mosaic themes to the adaptations made in the Christian era (e.g., doves, the good shepherd, and so on....) 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by cruisemom42