Rhine water levels 2022 and similar topics

[rizello]

We are on the Viking Baldur and sailing through the Rhine now.  Ship bypassed Kinderdijk and bussed guests to Kinderdijk and then we picked everyone up in Wesel and are now sailing towards Cologne.  We will learn more later about what happens next.  

[fairydustca]

9 minutes ago, rizello said:

We are on the Viking Baldur and sailing through the Rhine now.  Ship bypassed Kinderdijk and bussed guests to Kinderdijk and then we picked everyone up in Wesel and are now sailing towards Cologne.  We will learn more later about what happens next.  

Watching you cruise carefully. Thank you for the update.

[notamermaid]

Pfelling gauge has dropped to 63cm, the lowest it has been this year yet. Going into Wednesday, the forecast suggests figures below 60cm. But rain has swept over Strasbourg and the Swabian Jura this evening. Could this help to beat the pessimistic forecast?

 

notamermaid

 

[BaileyMJ]

Just got this email from Viking - my cruise starts Saturday from Amsterdam to Basel.  Very strange since Alruna and Tialfi were doing the same itinerary and were both sold out.  Can only think maybe doing opposite schedules and will be a switch.

 

Hoping some knows more info!

 

Here is the email:

 

 

Dear Viking Guest,

Thank you for choosing Viking for your upcoming European voyage. If you are not aware, we wanted to let you know that the Rhine River is currently experiencing unusually low water levels that may impact your itinerary.

When water levels are too low, navigation for vessels on the river may become restricted. As a result, we may need to adjust our sailing speeds, which could result in slight delays, or dock in alternate locations in areas where our regular docking spots are adversely affected by the conditions.

Due to unavoidable schedule changes as a consequence of low water levels on the Rhine River, your ship has been changed to an identical sister ship, Viking Alruna.

Like Viking Tialfi, Viking Alruna is a state-of-the-art Longship, featuring all the same comforts and style as the rest of the Viking Longship fleet. She will be ready to greet you at the same time and place and also has a warm and welcoming staff who will be delighted to have you as a guest.

If water levels remain low during your voyage, we may also need to enact what we call a mid-cruise "ship swap" to bypass areas that are impossible to sail through. Since Viking operates identical Longships purposefully sailing in opposite directions along the river, we are able to transfer you by motorcoach from your ship to the exact same stateroom on an identical sister ship further along the river so that you can resume your itinerary with the least possible disruption.

Because river conditions can fluctuate on short notice, exact details of how your cruise may be impacted cannot be determined until closer to departure. Our nautical department is continuing to monitor the situation closely and we will keep you updated should any changes become necessary. We understand that any change from your original itinerary may be disappointing, and for that we truly apologize.

Rest assured, we have considerable experience in dealing with situations like this and will make every effort to stay as close to your itinerary as possible. In any event, we are confident that you will enjoy your journey — and we will do everything in our power to ensure your time with us is enriching and meaningful.

Should you have any questions before your departure, please contact Reservations at  1-855-300-3970, Sunday to Saturday between 5:00 AM to 7:00 PM, PT.

Should you need to contact Viking Alruna upon your arrival, please call +49 152 225 38 745.

Thank you for understanding, and we look forward to welcoming you on board soon.

Sincerely,

Viking

[Haqdeluxe]

55 minutes ago, BaileyMJ said:

Just got this email from Viking - my cruise starts Saturday from Amsterdam to Basel.  Very strange since Alruna and Tialfi were doing the same itinerary and were both sold out.  Can only think maybe doing opposite schedules and will be a switch.

 

Hoping some knows more info!

 

Here is the email:

 

 

Dear Viking Guest,

Thank you for choosing Viking for your upcoming European voyage. If you are not aware, we wanted to let you know that the Rhine River is currently experiencing unusually low water levels that may impact your itinerary.

When water levels are too low, navigation for vessels on the river may become restricted. As a result, we may need to adjust our sailing speeds, which could result in slight delays, or dock in alternate locations in areas where our regular docking spots are adversely affected by the conditions.

Due to unavoidable schedule changes as a consequence of low water levels on the Rhine River, your ship has been changed to an identical sister ship, Viking Alruna.

Like Viking Tialfi, Viking Alruna is a state-of-the-art Longship, featuring all the same comforts and style as the rest of the Viking Longship fleet. She will be ready to greet you at the same time and place and also has a warm and welcoming staff who will be delighted to have you as a guest.

If water levels remain low during your voyage, we may also need to enact what we call a mid-cruise "ship swap" to bypass areas that are impossible to sail through. Since Viking operates identical Longships purposefully sailing in opposite directions along the river, we are able to transfer you by motorcoach from your ship to the exact same stateroom on an identical sister ship further along the river so that you can resume your itinerary with the least possible disruption.

Because river conditions can fluctuate on short notice, exact details of how your cruise may be impacted cannot be determined until closer to departure. Our nautical department is continuing to monitor the situation closely and we will keep you updated should any changes become necessary. We understand that any change from your original itinerary may be disappointing, and for that we truly apologize.

Rest assured, we have considerable experience in dealing with situations like this and will make every effort to stay as close to your itinerary as possible. In any event, we are confident that you will enjoy your journey — and we will do everything in our power to ensure your time with us is enriching and meaningful.

Should you have any questions before your departure, please contact Reservations at  1-855-300-3970, Sunday to Saturday between 5:00 AM to 7:00 PM, PT.

Should you need to contact Viking Alruna upon your arrival, please call +49 152 225 38 745.

Thank you for understanding, and we look forward to welcoming you on board soon.

Sincerely,

Viking

They go back and forth all season. If both started the season going the same direction with only their sail dates being different... at some point one or the other became stuck on the Basel end of the route. It looks here like that would be the Tailfi. 😀

As Viking has suggested, you won't notice any difference other than the name of the ship. In fact you may be sailing with the same hotel crew you originally would have been if there has been a swap this season. The hotel crew goes with the  passengers.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Haqdeluxe

[CastleCritic]

thats definitely a strength of Viking.

 

Ive been on 4 Amawaterways cruises and 3 different classes of ships (granted the last the Amadante was also a 110m class ship on the Seine where Viking also has shorter ships that look exactly like their 135m ships) and my next is on the amamagna which is...well...bigger than most river ships (and also last trip wasnt able to make it to Budapest...though I saw viking ships steam right past) its not that they are VERY different but they are different.
 

Hopefully you wont need to shuttle ships.

Edited August 2, 2022 by CastleCritic

[UDChE89]

10 hours ago, rizello said:

We are on the Viking Baldur and sailing through the Rhine now.  Ship bypassed Kinderdijk and bussed guests to Kinderdijk and then we picked everyone up in Wesel and are now sailing towards Cologne.  We will learn more later about what happens next.  

My former employer is HQed in Wesel and I visited many times.  Always wondered if any of the ships actually stopped there.

[su-arizona]

One of the reasons we enjoy cruising is that we enjoy traveling to different places without having to pack and unpack our bags. We've taken one river cruise in Europe with AMA which we really enjoyed, but there were no water level concerns or ship swaps.  The only buses involved were those taking us to tours we'd chosen that were not on the river, so this is all new to us.

How is your luggage handled in these situations?  Am I correct in assuming that, like a disembarkation, you need to pack your bags and leave them at your door for pickup at night?  Do carry on bags go with you on the bus transfer or tour?

We are booked on Viking Rhine AMS-Basel at the end of August, so it seems likely we may have to deal with this.  Thanks in advance for your advice/experience and these really informative postings!

[notamermaid]

9 hours ago, UDChE89 said:

My former employer is HQed in Wesel and I visited many times.  Always wondered if any of the ships actually stopped there.

That is new actually. I believe Viking is the company that has established the town as a proper river cruise port. In conjunction with the authorities Viking built a landing stage there. It was supposed to go into full operation some time in 2020 but was delayed because of you know what. As far as I know Viking is still the only company having Wesel as a stop in an itinerary. It focuses on Belgium and the Netherlands with a half-day or so stop in Wesel. The town especially advertised that they were looking for people they could train as tourist guides. Of course, Wesel is a stop for excursion boats.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

8 hours ago, su-arizona said:

How is your luggage handled in these situations?  Am I correct in assuming that, like a disembarkation, you need to pack your bags and leave them at your door for pickup at night?  Do carry on bags go with you on the bus transfer or tour?

We are booked on Viking Rhine AMS-Basel at the end of August, so it seems likely we may have to deal with this.

I am afraid you could be right for the scenario to be happening at the end of August. We will see. In the meantime hopefully someone will join us here to answer your questions and put you at ease. Have you had a look at the roll calls? You could add yourself. Whether or not you feel like doing that, a roll call may be the place to find such info as some people prefer to post their experiences there.

 

Have a great time on "my" river.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

15 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Pfelling gauge has dropped to 63cm, the lowest it has been this year yet. Going into Wednesday, the forecast suggests figures below 60cm. But rain has swept over Strasbourg and the Swabian Jura this evening. Could this help to beat the pessimistic forecast?

 

notamermaid

 

The weather is hotting up in the Rhine valley, not helpful for the river levels. The weekend is supposed to bring thunderstorms and lower temperatures but before that we have to content with the situation probably not getting better. I am afraid to say that the gauge forecast says it is going to be worse. Kaub stands at 62cm, up from 60cm this morning, but the computer modelling graph suggests 54cm on Thursday (I will not tell you what Friday says, you do not want to read that). Not good. Let us hope the computer is wrong and the river will do better.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[gentlemancruiser]

11 hours ago, CastleCritic said:

thats definitely a strength of Viking.

 

Ive been on 4 Amawaterways cruises and 3 different classes of ships (granted the last the Amadante was also a 110m class ship on the Seine where Viking also has shorter ships that look exactly like their 135m ships) and my next is on the amamagna which is...well...bigger than most river ships (and also last trip wasnt able to make it to Budapest...though I saw viking ships steam right past) its not that they are VERY different but they are different.
 

Hopefully you wont need to shuttle ships.

We did an Avalon cruise about 6 years ago on the Danube and the water levels were low at Deggendorf.   One night the captain told us we'd be passing the shallowest parts and that during the night we would be awaken by the sounds of rocks hitting the hull as we scrapped the bottom.   We definitely scrapped the bottom several times.   Wow was it loud, one very sleepless night mean the cruise would continue uninterrupted.  Sounded like we were in a hail storm.

 

[MDPastor]

On a positive note, I've been tracking the Viking Eir since we're supposed to get on it Friday in Basel. With the water levels and reports of folks being transferred, I wondered if the Eir would make it to Basel from Amsterdam this week.

 

Yesterday, it looks like The Eir successfully got through the Rhine Gorge. I know it doesn't mean anything for our trip next week because river levels change, but it is at least hopeful. 

[RDVIK2016]

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

The weather is hotting up in the Rhine valley, not helpful for the river levels. The weekend is supposed to bring thunderstorms and lower temperatures but before that we have to content with the situation probably not getting better. I am afraid to say that the gauge forecast says it is going to be worse. Kaub stands at 62cm, up from 60cm this morning, but the computer modelling graph suggests 54cm on Thursday (I will not tell you what Friday says, you do not want to read that). Not good. Let us hope the computer is wrong and the river will do better.

 

notamermaid

 

 

I keep getting wrapped around the axle trying to convert Pegel to depth in the navigation channel.  I read that you take the Pegel and subtract that location's GLW and then add the TuGLW which for Kaub in today's example is 62cm - 78 cm + 190 cm = 1.8 meters. Is that correct?   A Viking cruise ship has a minimum draft of 1.9 meters, so I don't see the Viking longships making it past Kaub. Is there an additional safety margin beyond the TuGLW that the skippers of the ships dare to use?

 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, RDVIK2016 said:

A Viking cruise ship has a minimum draft of 1.9 meters

Not sure if that is correct, never figured it our properly. Would need to ask a captain on a Viking ship. Per shipyard it is 1.60m: https://www.neptunwerft.de/en/ships/viking_longships_by_neptun_werft.jsp

 

I am bit short on time so will get back to the calculations later or tomorrow.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

5 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

I keep getting wrapped around the axle trying to convert Pegel to depth in the navigation channel.  I read that you take the Pegel and subtract that location's GLW and then add the TuGLW which for Kaub in today's example is 62cm - 78 cm + 190 cm = 1.8 meters. Is that correct?   A Viking cruise ship has a minimum draft of 1.9 meters, so I don't see the Viking longships making it past Kaub. Is there an additional safety margin beyond the TuGLW that the skippers of the ships dare to use?

 

Right. Rather than confusing myself and others by trying to explain this in my words, I am posting graphics. A screenshot with an example at Kaub, the 190cm being the TuGlW. This is a good example as the water level is 62cm, just like in your calculation. Check the difference:

You see that a captain needs to factor in a safety margin (depending on river bed structure and ship hull).

Disclaimer: This is for information only. It is designed for commercial transport, i.e. loading capacities. I am not giving any guarantees about accuracy or suggest that you use it to calculate if your ship will sail or not. Please do not annoy your captain with it. Please read the disclaimer on the website where this is from and if you pass on the info please use the whole website. Thank you.

http://www.platformzeroincidents.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Calculation-navigational-depth-R0.pdf

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

 

[purpleduck]

 I'm on AmaSiena August 18th. I'm also curious about how the boat swaps work regarding luggage, etc. Anyone have experience with this?

[RDVIK2016]

9 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Not sure if that is correct, never figured it our properly. Would need to ask a captain on a Viking ship. Per shipyard it is 1.60m: https://www.neptunwerft.de/en/ships/viking_longships_by_neptun_werft.jsp

 

I am bit short on time so will get back to the calculations later or tomorrow.

 

notamermaid

 

 

notamermaid, 

Thank you for finding that info. 1.6 meters must be a ship as delivered by the Werft.  Anywhere else they're giving 1.8 to 2.0m.  Binnenschifferforum has been starting a thread for each ship as they are introduced and in most cases they list the Tiefgang (draught) as 2,00 m. Sometimes they at "max", on one ship I checked, Tialfi, they did use 1,60.  I guess the standard way to report draught is to give the maximum draught which at the same time corresponds to the minimum air draught (Fixpunkt) to clear low overpasses/bridges. Once you get crew, passengers, food load-out, etc., on board you probably can't trim the boat any more shallow than about 1.8 meters. 

 

I found a couple of photos of Viking Hlin out of the water where the forward and aft draught marks were clearly visible.  The 2 meter mark approximately matches that red bumper line just above the black anti-fouling paint on the lower hull.  Any photos of Longships underway don't seem to show more than about 20 centimeters of black paint exposed so they must be cruising at about 1.8 to 1.9 meters of draught. 

 

This may not be interesting to anyone else, but as long as I spent the time obsessing about it, I just thought I would share my thoughts. 

RDVIK

 

 

[RDVIK2016]

6 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Right. Rather than confusing myself and others by trying to explain this in my words, I am posting graphics. A screenshot with an example at Kaub, the 190cm being the TuGlW. This is a good example as the water level is 62cm, just like in your calculation. Check the difference:

You see that a captain needs to factor in a safety margin (depending on river bed structure and ship hull).

Disclaimer: This is for information only. It is designed for commercial transport, i.e. loading capacities. I am not giving any guarantees about accuracy or suggest that you use it to calculate if your ship will sail or not. Please do not annoy your captain with it. Please read the disclaimer on the website where this is from and if you pass on the info please use the whole website. Thank you.

http://www.platformzeroincidents.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Calculation-navigational-depth-R0.pdf

 

notamermaid

 

 

notamermaid,

Yes, I have seen that page. I have been trying to figure out why they used the term "Discharging depth" in the text and on the chart, but Navigational depth in the title.  "Discharging" anywhere else is a hydrological term of water volume given in cubic meters per second.  Maybe just an odd translation into English from a Dutch website of terms from a chart which appears to have originally been in German. 

 

I got the formula I used from this page:  (You have to click on the plus sign in the box titled So berechnen Kapitäne die wirkliche Wassertiefe" to see the formula)

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/was-ist-ein-pegel-erklaerung-100.html

RDVIK

[Canal archive]

Isn’t discharging depth when the tanks have been emptied and passengers chucked overboard!

[notamermaid]

Yes, that is a weird term. Discharging depth, for folks reading, is the translation from the German "Abladetiefe". That is a nautical/logistical term referring to the load a ship can carry, abladen is literally unload in common language.

 

@RDVIK2016 thanks for the link to SWR, I saw it yesterday and was going to post that or something around it, i.e. a connected video. SWR does some nice laymen stuff to illustrate the situation. Just had not got round to it.

 

By the way, had a brief walk through the riverbed yesterday. I went to the river banks and walked over stones (carefully) that are normally riverbed or at least the side of the river that is normally covered by at least 20 centimetres of water. Found no treasures and thankfully nothing that looked suspicious (ammunition, etc.)

 

No photos yesterday, but I may take some soon. Have got some from 2018, quite the sight it was.

 

Pfelling gauge at 61cm, so holding up okay. Forecast suggests stable figures today, tomorrow down to 54cm, potentially less.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Canal archive]

1966 scootering through France to Spain and we walked on the dry river bed in Cahors France.

[RDVIK2016]

50 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Yes, that is a weird term. Discharging depth, for folks reading, is the translation from the German "Abladetiefe". That is a nautical/logistical term referring to the load a ship can carry, abladen is literally unload in common language.

 

@RDVIK2016 thanks for the link to SWR, I saw it yesterday and was going to post that or something around it, i.e. a connected video. SWR does some nice laymen stuff to illustrate the situation. Just had not got round to it.

 

By the way, had a brief walk through the riverbed yesterday. I went to the river banks and walked over stones (carefully) that are normally riverbed or at least the side of the river that is normally covered by at least 20 centimetres of water. Found no treasures and thankfully nothing that looked suspicious (ammunition, etc.)

 

No photos yesterday, but I may take some soon. Have got some from 2018, quite the sight it was.

 

Pfelling gauge at 61cm, so holding up okay. Forecast suggests stable figures today, tomorrow down to 54cm, potentially less.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

notamermaid,

 

Thank you! You said the magic word: "Abladetiefe". Searching with this term leads to several relevant sites. It is much clearer in German. A better English translation would have been "loaded draught" or something similar.

 

Where have we seen this chart before? Same website - different language. 

http://www.platformzeroincidents.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Berechnung-nautische-Tiefe-R0.pdf

 

Abladetiefe seems to be a much more useful concept for freight carrying riverships/barges. They would calculate it to determine how big of a load they can carry, especially of a bulk cargo.  Cruise ships don't have such variable loads.

 

RDVIK

 

Edited to add an additional important term: The Abladetiefe is the "static load" (in Ruhelage). Then they have to figure the "Absunk" or the measurement of how much the motion of the ship will cause it sink or kind of squat down in the water as it is underway (fahrdynamisches Einsinken).  Wow! so much to have to consider it's a wonder more boats don't run aground. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by RDVIK2016

[DavidPlunkett]

We are on the Viking Gymir, which currently is in Strasbourg, heading from Basel to Amsterdam. We were told this evening we will be swapping to the Egdir tomorrow due to the low water level. (Interestingly, the Egdir was to be our ship originally.)

 

@MDPastor, the Eir also is docked here today, so, yes, it made it through the gorge coming from Amsterdam. 
 

@su-arizona and @purpleduck, regarding luggage, we are to have our bags outside our door by 8:30 in the morning. That includes our carryons. Viking will transfer everything while we are enjoying the walking tour and time on our own for lunch in Speyer. (We will receive a $25/person shipboard credit to cover the cost of lunch.) We then will be bussed to meet the Egdir in Braubach. Unfortunately, the optional excursions scheduled for tomorrow evening all have been canceled. (The wine dinner at the Cistercian monastery was the excursion I was most looking forward to!) 

 

@Haqdeluxe, we were told the only member of the crew making the swap with us is the cruise director. 

 

We have been promised we still will see the gorge and the castles from the water on Friday on an excursion boat that still is able to navigate the shallow water. 

[notamermaid]

Thank you for all the info.

36 minutes ago, DavidPlunkett said:

Unfortunately, the optional excursions scheduled for tomorrow evening all have been canceled. (The wine dinner at the Cistercian monastery was the excursion I was most looking forward to!) 

Oh that is a great pity. It sounds as if this would have been Kloster Eberbach (your computer will switch to the English version automatically probably): https://kloster-eberbach.de/de

 

39 minutes ago, DavidPlunkett said:

We have been promised we still will see the gorge and the castles from the water on Friday on an excursion boat that still is able to navigate the shallow water. 

Hooray to that! Admittedly this will not be as luxurious and comfortable as your own ship and you may share the boat with other tourists and children, depending on the charter Viking could arrange. But it will hopefully be great fun, apart from being "authentic". The "RMS Goethe" cannot sail, her draft is too deep and the company fears damaging the old lady but several other ships can still sail.

 

Have a smooth transfer and a great time on the river.

 

notamermaid