Rhine water levels 2022 and similar topics

[momofthre3]

Not sure what the outcome will be.  We do have some travel time before or did plan, in Edinburgh. We have tickets to see the Royal Tatoo and the guys are playing golf at St. Andrews.  From there it was a few days in Amsterdam, board the S.S. Antoinette, end up in Basel, some time in Interlocken, then Zurich for a day, and head up to Munich to see the Passion Play.  All plans in the middle are up in the air.  Other choices were the S.S. Catherine, Burgandy to Provence and S.S. La Venezia, Venice & the Gems of Northern Italy.....Both ships head out in the same time frame as the S.S. Antoinette.  Of course, Uniworld won't call the sailing until we are already over there.  I'm trying to think of it in the terms of my grandkids surprise blind bags, on a much more expensive level..... 

[gentlemancruiser]

1 hour ago, momofthre3 said:

 and S.S. La Venezia, Venice & the Gems of Northern Italy....

The PO river is dried up too.   Not sure you'll do much cruising there.

[HotinHavasu]

How much of a chance for good rain in September for those river areas?  Danube & Rhine??  Looks devastating!!  Not sure I want to be in hotels and buses for our first river cruise....Viking  Budapest to Amsterdam 9/26.  I'm reading that all the longships are being moved out of Budapest already.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by HotinHavasu
added info

[catgetsdown]

Hello HoptinHavasu - we're doing the Viking Budapest to Amsterdam starting on Oct 7 so right behind you. I am concerned about the Rhine/Danube levels and while I'm ok with buses, I really didn't want to pack/unpack/pack.... Hope they get some rain next month ... Good luck!

[RDVIK2016]

Unreal photos of a few spots on rivers in Europe at the link.  https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/11/in-pictures-europes-mighty-rivers-are-drying-up-in-the-climate-driven-drought

 

[RDVIK2016]

1 hour ago, HotinHavasu said:

How much of a chance for good rain in September for those river areas?  Danube & Rhine??  Looks devastating!!  Not sure I want to be in hotels and buses for our first river cruise....Viking  Budapest to Amsterdam 9/26.  I'm reading that all the longships are being moved out of Budapest already.

 

Back on page 21 of this topic, post #510, is a chart that shows average river levels though the year compared with this year. It appears that September and October do not, on average, see better levels than July and August.  Not very promising is it?  In 2018 the lowest levels were in October. 

 

Things can work out though. On the Danube in October 2019 we were on a Viking Ingvi that could not get from Bratislava to Budapest. I appreciated having a delay in Bratislava before the boat moved to Komárom, Hungary.  What a neat little city is Bratislava!  From Komárom we were bused to Budapest for our excursions and back to Komárom. Viking did an unbelievable job getting us to our respective excursions and arranging for dinner in a large banquet hall/restaurant and after that we had an amazing tour of the Jewish Quarter.  There was another glitsch out of Viking's control when we could not go up to palace hill with the Fishermen's Bastion because traffic was diverted due to Putin being there to visit his pal Orbán. So we had a tour up at the Citadel which wasn't too bad. I was so thankful though that we were still going to have the extension in Budapest - so we bused back in to the hotel the next day. 

[notamermaid]

6 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Back on page 21 of this topic, post #510, is a chart that shows average river levels though the year compared with this year. It appears that September and October do not, on average, see better levels than July and August.  Not very promising is it?  In 2018 the lowest levels were in October. 

 

That is right about September and October. And is the reason for people being worried. If we have such low levels in August what will it be like in September and October? The weather could change but statistically it is unlikely to. Relying on Lake Constance and rainfall with all the tributaries also low on water, the Rhine is "always" on the low side in Autumn compared to Summer. I have my doubts about the Grand European itinerary in Autumn. But I will gather my thoughts on that for posting them another day.

 

Interesting how much Bloomberg is "consulted" for river levels here. While they obviously see all this from a business perspective, the graphs they compile with data from the German authorities are practical to read and I find usually even helpful, also for me to comment on.

 

Quick look at Kaub: 44cm, forecast Saturday stable, Sunday probably dropping just below 40cm. Long term forecast: return to GlW 78cm unlikely before 21 August, there should be reaction to rain that is forecast for just before that date, return to 100cm highly unlikely any time soon.

 

Here is a very interesting article (coming from the dpa news agency) in the Süddeutsche Zeitung that has a different tone to Bloomberg. You could run this through a translation program. For commercial shipping this is the interesting bit. quote "Die Bundesanstalt für Gewässerkunde (BfG) hatte kürzlich erklärt, bis zu einem Wasserstand von etwa 30 bis 35 Zentimetern am Pegel Kaub könnten flachgehende Binnenschiffe die Mittelrheinstrecke noch passieren." end quote

So the authorities had recently stated that flat-bottomed inland waterway ships can navigate through the Middle Rhine valley (the tricky passage that is) when the level at Kaub is 30cm to 35cm.

 

Large companies that rely heavily on the Rhine have invested in such ships after the drought of 2018 and are also using those from the older existing fleet. It is a busy river, busier than in normal times even! No word on river cruise ships, "Flusskreuzfahrtschiffe" or " Hotelschiffe" in the article? Well it does actually say "Personenschiffe", which probably means both excursion and cruise. Remember river cruising is normally only mentioned in the "zweite Nebensatz", i.e. relegated to the second subordinate clause. It is just not commercially that important. But in the last two weeks I have for a change seen a couple of articles and interviews that address river cruising problems. The growth in river cruising over the last ten years has made a slight difference to reporting I would say. In 2018 regional television SWR did a short interview with stranded American river cruisers. I have not seen anything like that this year yet.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[bluestocking7]

BBC News has a report today on the Rhine.  One of their reporters stands on a rocky former riverbed in Bingen, with (I think) the Mouse Tower behind her, saying you can now wade out to the island the tower is on.  You can however seen a barge sailing by.  She doesn't discuss cruise ships but makes the point that some of Germany's coal-fired power plants are on the river and rely on coal being shipped in.  

[RDVIK2016]

7 hours ago, notamermaid said:

....

Here is a very interesting article (coming from the dpa news agency) in the Süddeutsche Zeitung that has a different tone to Bloomberg. You could run this through a translation program. For commercial shipping this is the interesting bit. quote "Die Bundesanstalt für Gewässerkunde (BfG) hatte kürzlich erklärt, bis zu einem Wasserstand von etwa 30 bis 35 Zentimetern am Pegel Kaub könnten flachgehende Binnenschiffe die Mittelrheinstrecke noch passieren." end quote

So the authorities had recently stated that flat-bottomed inland waterway ships can navigate through the Middle Rhine valley (the tricky passage that is) when the level at Kaub is 30cm to 35cm.

....

notamermaid

 

 

notamermaid,

Thanks for mentioning that article. It was surprising to find the entire article with not paywall.  Is it just that SZ are allowing articles on this subject to be read for free?  FAZ also?

Not sure if you intended to include the link to the SZ, so I found it and another article from the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.  And as you say translation programs do a good job (except they don't often attempt to convey the subjunctive mood (Konjunktiv I). grins

RDVIK

 

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/schifffahrt-niedrigwasser-bringt-binnenschiffer-in-die-bredouille-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-220812-99-359903

 

https://www.faz.net/agenturmeldungen/dpa/niedrigwasser-bremst-binnenschifffahrt-in-bayern-18238760.html

[blw2021]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:07 PM, PaulS said:

We boarded the Avalon Panorama in Amsterdam yesterday for a cruise to Basel that is to end on August 13. Our original ship was to have been the Avalon Vista but we were informed last week of the ship change. Last night on the ship we were advised that the ship could not make it to Basel and that we would switch to the Avalon Vista on Wednesday. The plan is to go to Cologne tomorrow and to Koblenz on Wednesday. On Wednesday,  we are to sail on a local boat in the Rhine Gorge to Kaub and then return to the ship in Koblenz for the night. On Wednesday we will disembark the Panorama and go to Heidelberg for tours. Then we will bus to Kehl and embark on the Avalon Vista. The people on the Vista will take our places on the Panorama. 

The  cruise has been great so far. I just hope that things will go as planned.

Keep us posted!  We are supposed to board the Vista in Amsterdam on Aug. 20th going to Basel.

[gentlemancruiser]

8 minutes ago, blw2021 said:

Keep us posted!  We are supposed to board the Vista in Amsterdam on Aug. 20th going to Basel.

The Panorama is a better ship then the Vista.

 

[PKNC]

I appreciate the updates. We are scheduled to go on our first ever river cruise (Viking) in mid December, Basel to Amsterdam. Looking at the graphs, I'm not convinced that levels will be recovered enough by then for a cruise without buses, switching ships, etc. I believe that we can invoke a two-week cancellation if we need to for a voucher, I am going to start reading about options now so I'm ready to pull the trigger if I need to. It's so disappointing, I have been looking forward to this cruise all year!

[KathyK13]

1 hour ago, PKNC said:

I appreciate the updates. We are scheduled to go on our first ever river cruise (Viking) in mid December, Basel to Amsterdam. Looking at the graphs, I'm not convinced that levels will be recovered enough by then for a cruise without buses, switching ships, etc. I believe that we can invoke a two-week cancellation if we need to for a voucher, I am going to start reading about options now so I'm ready to pull the trigger if I need to. It's so disappointing, I have been looking forward to this cruise all year!

While it's good to be prepared, I wouldn't worry too much yet.  There's likely to be more rain in the fall.   I am scheduled for a Danube Christmas cruise in December and am not too worried...yet.  

[notamermaid]

5 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Not sure if you intended to include the link to the SZ,

I did and forgot. Oops, sorry. Thank you for spotting that and doing it for me.

 

6 hours ago, bluestocking7 said:

BBC News has a report today on the Rhine.  One of their reporters stands on a rocky former riverbed in Bingen, with (I think) the Mouse Tower behind her, saying you can now wade out to the island the tower is on.  You can however seen a barge sailing by.  She doesn't discuss cruise ships but makes the point that some of Germany's coal-fired power plants are on the river and rely on coal being shipped in.  

That is a favourite spot for reporters. A lady from SWR stood exactly there a few days ago. Such an iconic building and it is correct that you can now walk over there on a narrow ridge, like a bridge made out of rocks it looks I would say. It was quite a spectacle in 2018.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, KathyK13 said:

While it's good to be prepared, I wouldn't worry too much yet.  There's likely to be more rain in the fall.   I am scheduled for a Danube Christmas cruise in December and am not too worried...yet.  

I tend to agree. December is a long time away. When the temperatures go down in October and rain increases again in November things will look better. How much better we cannot guess but I am confident for November seeing an increase in river levels.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

7 hours ago, bluestocking7 said:

BBC News has a report today on the Rhine. 

I see it is Jenny Hill who has been out and about in Germany. This is the article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62519683

Ferries have a real problem. A few have stopped running already.

 

And this is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QrUOOogguM

 

 

The image next to the bridge at 1:19 is the mouth of the river Nahe which does look a little - dry. Not good, definitely worse than the video I saw last week. Edit: where is my geography lesson?? Sorry, of course it is not the Nahe...

 

And as I am feeling a bit impatient - let me just say that next time you speak to a rep who claims there are no problems with river cruising, send them the link to this video.

 

To be fair, this is the side where gravel banks are exposed more frequently as the navigation channel is more towards the right bank of the river, this is on the left, the unused side of the island(s). Easy to add a bit of drama, but it does not diminish the fact that this is an extreme situation. This Rhine river girl approves of the reporting in this video (I do not always agree with the BBC).

 

notamermaid

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by notamermaid
wrong info

[gentlemancruiser]

Maybe the Rhine could install one of these for when there is low water

 

[gayles]

 

On 8/10/2022 at 8:02 AM, krintc said:

We are on the same cruise (Viking Sigyn departing Basel on August 30). Some in my group are considering cancelling, but me and my husband are going regardless. Too many things aligned to enable taking this trip to reverse course at this time. I have my expectations aligned that part of the trip may be on land at worst, or ship swap at best.

Hopefully we can meet on the ship!  Our friends have canceled so it just me and my husband going.

[Canal archive]

Well done gales continue and NOT be dammed regardless have a great time!

[notamermaid]

8 hours ago, gayles said:

 

Hopefully we can meet on the ship!  Our friends have canceled so it just me and my husband going.

It may be a bit more adventurous than originally thought but I am sure you will have a great time on "my" river.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

"Baggern! Baggern!" Diggers are operating along the Rhine to dredge the areas where ferries take people and cars across the river. One was at Nierstein, here is video:

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/mainz/anlegestelle-rheinfaehre-nierstein-kornsand-wird-ausgebaggert-100.html

 

Commuters would have to go via Mainz, the nearest bridge, which is a half hour detour according to one lady interviewed.

 

Another digger was busy at Bacharach in the Rhine Gorge.

 

Kaub gauge at 36cm. Forecast 32cm for tomorrow, Monday possibly 30cm. Next week slight rise, bringing 78cm into view for 20 August. Well, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

notamermaid

 

[Canal archive]

Fantastic, 

[notamermaid]

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Another digger was busy at Bacharach in the Rhine Gorge.

 

Need to be more specific here I think. At Bacharach a digger was seeing not to the ferry ramp area but the landing stage area of an excursion boat.

 

A river cruise ship is on its way to the Rhine. This one is a special sailing. The MS Alisa is on her way to the Netherlands to be fitted with all that is needed to turn her into a proper ship, right now she is being pushed as a steel hull by Zasavica III and is on the Main. I believe the push boat is only allowed to sail during the day, so it will be another day till she arrives at Mainz and then attempts the passage of the Rhine Gorge. I reckon it could work as she is obviously much lighter still than a finished river cruise ship is. We will see. I hope the Zasavica III continues the job, if she is fixed alongside a barge on the Rhine instead I will have a hard time picking up that track on a shipspotting website. She will be part of the fleet of Phoenix Reisen.

 

@gentlemancruiser What a weird construction in Canada. They say the Vikings carried or rolled their ships up the Rhine in the 10th century, but these days the ratio passengers to ship weight prevents this from working, so I am seriously wondering if that chute may be the solution, or at least an adapted design. I will give it a good think over a glass of red wine and perhaps talk to the engineers in Karlsruhe. I imagine the conversation in their lunch break: "You know, I have just had the strangest phone call by a woman with this weird idea..."

 

Talking of engineers in Karlsruhe. They have a standard idea/solution for the Rhine Gorge. Here is the German word for what they want to do in their project: "Abladeoptimierung". I will explain this in another post.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

I have just read that the NickoSpirit is stranded on the Main so to speak, not because the Main is low but the Rhine is too low for her to sail. She is awaiting better times in Hanau harbour, near Frankfurt. The harbour master expects the 110m ship to be in Hanau till Tuesday - perhaps longer. The water level in the harbour is 40cm lower than normal but just like on the river Main itself that is not a problem.

Source is op-online.de

 

Cologne is warning of potentially dangerous finds in the river, i.e. grenades and other unpleasant things. The rule: do not touch anything that looks suspicious.

 

You may read that shipping "is halted", stopped", "ships have stopped sailing" or something similar in the next three days. That would be sloppy reporting IMO, what is correct is that commercial river traffic is getting close to making a financial loss, i.e. a company, etc. may decide to stop sailing for that reason or run out of ships that can make the passage safely. It sounds to me as if that will be many, many ships that will not sail. Could the river level be reduced so much that we will only see the old barges from the 60's and bike barges and yachts?

 

Not good, not fun and it is only August.

 

notamermaid

 

[CPT Trips]

What is the primary type of cargo transported by ship/barge. Is it bulk (coal, grain, chemicals)?