Rhine water levels 2022 and similar topics

[notamermaid]

41 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Ships are still going to Rüdesheim, I spotted an Amawaterways (APT) ship there yesterday. In the evening, the Emily Bronte came. She moved to another dock in Rüdesheim after lunch today and then disappeared from view. Her dock at the train station was then occupied by another ship that had come through the Rhine Gorge! Not sure which one it is but I think it is Dutch and definitely not 135m long.

Found it - them!! Not Dutch. Two ships came through the Rhine Gorge as confirmed by marinetraffic and the webcam at Bingen. They are both CroisiEurope and 110m long, the L' Europe and the Gerard Schmitter.

 

notamermaid

 

[SometimesCruiser]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Kehl in Germany is a typical port for the Strasbourg excursion. Shuttle is then usually provided it seems.

 

 

During our B-A Avalon Romantic Rhine cruise (Jul 31-Aug 7), we actually moved from the Kehl side to the Strasbourg side after the first day.  We stayed there in Strasbourg for 2 additional nights.  The first day we were free to use the provided shuttle to go into Strasbourg if we weren't going on the bus tour to Heidelberg.  However, the second day we had to vacate the ship and bus to Rudesheim.  I don't know what options were provided if anyone didn't want to participate in the Rudesheim excursions.  As far as I know, everyone from our ship was on the tourist boat through the Rhine Gorge before we joined the Imagery II at Engers.

[Canal archive]

Oh love it not a straight line cruise but an across the river cruise. I wonder how that would stand up in court!

[notamermaid]

11 hours ago, SometimesCruiser said:

As far as I know, everyone from our ship was on the tourist boat through the Rhine Gorge before we joined the Imagery II at Engers.

It is nice to know that so many river cruisers still get to enjoy the Rhine Gorge that way.

 

You mention Engers, a standard port for Avalonwaterways but as far as I know hardly used by others yet. That modern landing stage there is a kind of cooperation between the authorities there and the company, but the booking of the dock is done through a different provider. So Avalonwaterways I believe has no "first come first serve" or "monopoly" on this dock I think. If someone could find out from the company I would welcome the info here.

 

Unfortunately, the main attraction, the palace, is experiencing problems. It is owned by Villa Musica, but the hospitality subsidiary company has gone into administration. Too much loss of revenue during the last two years. Apparently a restructuring did not work out. So now they have a third party trying to do it. I am hopeful that it will work and during my contacts at work I have heard that the current events and daily operation of the hotel are not affected.

 

You can read a bit more on Engers here, post #7: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2516698-rhine-beyond-the-standard-ports/

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

Kaub gauge is at 31cm this lunchtime. That is only 6cm higher than the all time low in October 2018. Forecast suggests it will be stable during the next two days, so we probably will not see that figure of 25cm his year for some time. Yes, rain is forecast! We will see what happens but modelling says that the 78cm could happen on 21 August. I am skeptical so will go for the more probable 22 August. The end of ship swaps even? For now let us just say that modelling puts 90cm into the "could well happen" range. That is tentative and most likely only temporary. What we can definitely say is that Kaub will stay on low water for the rest of the month. How much that will impact river cruising we will need to wait and see.

 

The gauge at Maxau gives us a good indication of what the computer thinks will happen. The figure now is 323cm, the volume of water (Q) is now 436m³/s:

You see the water being carried increase fast on 18/19 August, the reaction to the rain forecast. Peak may just be touching 600m³/s. The grey line, by the way, indicates the volume of water will slowly but steadily decrease if it does not rain. This amount of water does not fully translate into a corresponding rise at Kaub but certainly a rise of similar volume and a level cooresponding to that can be expected. Hence the fact that the probability chart gives us 78cm at Kaub, or at least a range that includes that figure.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Canal archive]

There are a few drops, very small, of rain on my window but the humidity has increased so much it’s amazingly uncomfortable. According to our gauges the temperature has dropped but it certainly does not feel like it.

[notamermaid]

I know what you mean. Have just a bit of moisture in the air and no wind to blow it around. It becomes oppressive. We are sort of okay here but a more urban environment is likely to be worse.

 

Not looking forward to tomorrow.

 

Now to Emmerich gauge! Something interesting happening down there. Watch it happen "live". Could happen today or tomorrow, new reading every 15 minutes:

https://www.pegelonline.wsv.de/gast/stammdaten?pegelnr=2790020

 

notamermaid

 

[NJPA79]

Hi All — great forum with wonderful information!

 

General question regarding navigating low water levels:  how much difference will being on a 110m ship versus a 135m ship make?  

 

I’m scheduled for an Amsterdam-to-Budapest itinerary leaving Amsterdam on September 4th, arriving in Budapest on September 17th.  Obviously we’ll be on the Rhine, Main & Danube.  We’re scheduled to be on Tauck’s ms Treasures, which is 110m.  Curious if this should give me any small glimmer of hope.

 

Thanks!

[notamermaid]

1 minute ago, NJPA79 said:

how much difference will being on a 110m ship versus a 135m ship make?  

Honest answer: I do not know. I just know the difference is there. It is enough to make a difference on the Rhine and could be all you need to get through and wave to the 135m ships docked and swapping passengers. The Danube is so incredibly low that the difference may not help right now. Not all 110m ships are alike nor are all 135m ships.

 

In short: well-chosen length of ship but still be prepared for inconveniences.

5 minutes ago, NJPA79 said:

Curious if this should give me any small glimmer of hope.

Yes. See above.

 

And if I may add: well-chosen ship, love looking at the Treasures sailing on the Rhine. Well-chosen company from what others have reported in previous years. You did not ask, but I thought I would say it anyway. Hope service is as good as it used to be with all the staff shortages the industry has.

 

If you have time and would like to make the effort, would be great to read of your experience when you return home. We hear little of this long itinerary with Tauck.

 

notamermaid

 

[NJPA79]

3 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Honest answer: I do not know. I just know the difference is there. It is enough to make a difference on the Rhine and could be all you need to get through and wave to the 135m ships docked and swapping passengers. The Danube is so incredibly low that the difference may not help right now. Not all 110m ships are alike nor are all 135m ships.

 

In short: well-chosen length of ship but still be prepared for inconveniences.

Yes. See above.

 

And if I may add: well-chosen ship, love looking at the Treasures sailing on the Rhine. Well-chosen company from what others have reported in previous years. You did not ask, but I thought I would say it anyway. Hope service is as good as it used to be with all the staff shortages the industry has.

 

If you have time and would like to make the effort, would be great to read of your experience when you return home. We hear little of this long itinerary with Tauck.

 

notamermaid

 

Thank you!  This will be my second journey with Tauck, and they most certainly did not disappoint the first time around.  I do share your hope that the staffing shortages do not impact Tauck’s reputation for service.  I’ll do my best to share my experience during and/or after the trip.

[RDVIK2016]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Now to Emmerich gauge! Something interesting happening down there. Watch it happen "live". Could happen today or tomorrow, new reading every 15 minutes:

https://www.pegelonline.wsv.de/gast/stammdaten?pegelnr=2790020

 

notamermaid

 

Wow! Are the Pegel gauges usually marked below zero?  Some of the Pegels are given in such I high number it would seem not to be necessary to extend the scales below zero. 

[notamermaid]

17 minutes ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Are the Pegel gauges usually marked below zero?

Not the ones I am familiar with. I do not understand enough about the engineering and science to know how they have done the scales. Also from a historical point of view. From a layman's point of view it looks quite arbitrary. I do not know when they put all the physical gauges (rulers or meters if you like) on the embankment walls or in the gauge buildings.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[gentlemancruiser]

1 hour ago, NJPA79 said:

Hi All — great forum with wonderful information!

 

General question regarding navigating low water levels:  how much difference will being on a 110m ship versus a 135m ship make?  

 

 

The length of the vessel is also important in low water because to the many bends/curves become harder to navigate, without hitting bottom.  Turning 110m vs 135m vessel is different.  When the river become narrow it makes for slower and tight bends.   

[SometimesCruiser]

6 hours ago, notamermaid said:

It is nice to know that so many river cruisers still get to enjoy the Rhine Gorge that way.

 

You mention Engers, a standard port for Avalonwaterways but as far as I know hardly used by others yet.

...

Unfortunately, the main attraction, the palace, is experiencing problems.

 

 

 

Sadly, I think we were so happy to arrive on our new ship (and unpack and attend happy hour...) that we really didn't avail ourselves of the city of Engers at all.  None of our family group of 11 wanted to venture back out once we boarded the Imagery II!

 

Our few shots from Engers:

[notamermaid]

4 hours ago, SometimesCruiser said:

None of our family group of 11 wanted to venture back out once we boarded the Imagery II!

A pity that you did not walk to the old town hall and got an ice cream across the square. But very understandable after that long day.

 

Engers has no independent town status by the way. It is a small and pleasant place. I see they have nice flower displays on the embankment. Really welcoming.

 

Avalonwaterways offered small concerts in the palace on some itineraries in the past. I do not know if they still do.

 

And wow, the river looks low in the photos. The Imagery II looks to have little water left under her.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[CILCIANRQTS]

9 hours ago, NJPA79 said:

Hi All — great forum with wonderful information!

 

General question regarding navigating low water levels:  how much difference will being on a 110m ship versus a 135m ship make?  

 

I’m scheduled for an Amsterdam-to-Budapest itinerary leaving Amsterdam on September 4th, arriving in Budapest on September 17th.  Obviously we’ll be on the Rhine, Main & Danube.  We’re scheduled to be on Tauck’s ms Treasures, which is 110m.  Curious if this should give me any small glimmer of hope.

 

Thanks!

Treasures draft is 1.2 meters.

Viking longship drafts vary from 1.5 to 2 meters.

New longship Egdir has a 1.6 meter draft.

Definitely an advantage to Treasures.

Edited August 16, 2022 by CILCIANRQTS
Add info

[KathyK13]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

A pity that you did not walk to the old town hall and got an ice cream across the square. But very understandable after that long day.

 

Engers has no independent town status by the way. It is a small and pleasant place. I see they have nice flower displays on the embankment. Really welcoming.

 

Avalonwaterways offered small concerts in the palace on some itineraries in the past. I do not know if they still do.

 

And wow, the river looks low in the photos. The Imagery II looks to have little water left under her.

 

notamermaid

 

 

We docked in Engers on our Moselle and Rhine cruise a few years ago and the concert in the castle was a surprise highlight of our trip!  We were the only boat docked there, so no rafting needed!  Very picturesque and peaceful.

 

[CILCIANRQTS]

 

37 minutes ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

Treasures draft is 1.2 meters.

Viking longship drafts vary from 1.5 to 2 meters.

New longship Egdir has a 1.6 meter draft.

Definitely an advantage to Treasures.

With Kaub at 31cm (12.2 inches) per notamermaid, you can see the reason for the pessimism around Rhine cruising! 

Edited August 16, 2022 by CILCIANRQTS
Autocorrect error

[RDVIK2016]

2 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

 

With Kaub at 31cm (12.2 inches) per notamermaid, you can see the reason for the pessimism around Rhine cruising! 

"Kaub at 31 cm" doesn't mean that the river is 12.2 inches deep in the navigation channel.  When then Pegel scale is at 31cm then the channel is 143 cm deep.  Some ships to have draughts less than 1.4m so can get by depending on a couple of other factors. 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by RDVIK2016

[Bowler Lady]

3 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

Treasures draft is 1.2 meters.

Viking longship drafts vary from 1.5 to 2 meters.

New longship Egdir has a 1.6 meter draft.

Definitely an advantage to Treasures.

Do you know what at a AMA shop is?

[CILCIANRQTS]

7 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

"Kaub at 31 cm" doesn't mean that the river is 12.2 inches deep in the navigation channel.  When then Pegel scale is at 31cm then the channel is 143 cm deep.  Some ships to have draughts less than 1.4m so can get by depending on a couple of other factors. 

 

Thanks!
Never knew the actual conversion factor.

[notamermaid]

Kaub gauge at 32cm. Forecast suggests stable figures. Then on Friday we may see a slight reaction to rain. On Thursday, the forecast will give a clearer picture of what the weekend will bring. Long term probability forecast suggests a temporary easing of the situation and the potential to bring the gauge up to 90cm. Hmm, that would mean a lot of rainfall in the Southern half of Germany and quite a bit in Switzerland as well. I am skeptical still.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Just caught on web camera coming upstream out of the Rhine Gorge and approaching Rüdesheim, the MS Vivienne:

 

Remember you can look at this yourself on: https://heimatzeithotels.panomax.com/bingen

 

The MS Vivienne is the refurbished MS River Concerto By Grand Circle Cruise Line and she is 110m long.

 

notamermaid

 

[steamboats]

There was a post by KD today answering the question why some of their ships can´t cruise while others do. And the clear answer was that the draft has nothing to do with the size of the ship. The Rhein Galaxy has 175 cm and can´t cruise anymore while another ship only draws 120 cm. 

 

steamboats

[notamermaid]

3 minutes ago, steamboats said:

And the clear answer was that the draft has nothing to do with the size of the ship.

Clearly they mean differences among their excursion boats. Not only size matters of course. Hull design and where the propeller is, materials used, the water tanks etc.  All the physics. Differentiating between 110m and 135m river cruise ships can only be an approximation.

 

On a personal note, I am not fully friends with KD. Working in the tourism industry I have experienced negative things with the company and I find it hard to shake that off.

 

By the way, folks, other companies apart from KD sail in the Rhine Gorge as well. I will come back to that.

 

notamermaid