Danube water levels 2022 and similar topics - plus tips and info

[ural guy]

On 9/26/2022 at 2:06 AM, JAG64 said:

We couldn't be this unlucky sailing in mid-November from Budapest to Amsterdam this year after having our cruise cancelled in late November 2018 because of no water in the rivers.

Part of our cruise is paid for with 2018 low water credits...hope you have a great time.

[JAG64]

7 hours ago, ural guy said:

Part of our cruise is paid for with 2018 low water credits...hope you have a great time.

Ours is too! Have a friend on the AMAReina at the moment and loving the cruise Budapest to Amsterdam. I have fingers and toes crossed this could be our year. Enjoy your cruise!

[corgifan8]

How are the Danube water levels from Budapest to Passau looking lately? We sail on the Viking Rinda, departing 10/9.to 10/16.

[notamermaid]

Generally speaking, Passau to Bratislava experiences very few problems with low water. Pfelling is doing well by the way, 395cm. Passau is at 461cm. So all very good. This gives plenty of water to areas further downstream. Along the river downstream from Bratislava the gauges show a mixed picture. But as a high volume of water is now coming from Germany I am sure the situation will improve wherever the levels are not so favourable right now. Budapest has lost some water but looks to be doing okay:

 

In the opposite direction of problems, i.e. high water, I see no problems arising as of yet. It is raining so I will not rule out this happening at some point in the future at Passau.

 

What I mean is the bridge. This is Passau gauge: https://www.hnd.bayern.de/pegel/donau_bis_passau/passau-10091008

Under "Hochwassermarken" you can read the info:

 

At 630cm some river cruise ships have problems sailing under the suspension bridge.

At 780cm all river traffic is halted in this section of the Danube.

 

The levels right now are far away from that. The river can rise fast but as of today, the forecasts both at Pfelling and Passau do not show levels that could get the river at Passau close to 600cm.

 

Monthly summary coming soon. If you have followed this thread for a while I think you can already tell what happened in September: while low at the beginning, overall the levels were better than we feared in August they would be.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

[cuulong]

5 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Generally speaking, Passau to Bratislava experiences very few problems with low water. Pfelling is doing well by the way, 395cm. Passau is at 461cm. So all very good. This gives plenty of water to areas further downstream. Along the river downstream from Bratislava the gauges show a mixed picture. But as a high volume of water is now coming from Germany I am sure the situation will improve wherever the levels are not so favourable right now. Budapest has lost some water but looks to be doing okay:

 

In the opposite direction of problems, i.e. high water, I see no problems arising as of yet. It is raining so I will not rule out this happening at some point in the future at Passau.

 

What I mean is the bridge. This is Passau gauge: https://www.hnd.bayern.de/pegel/donau_bis_passau/passau-10091008

Under "Hochwassermarken" you can read the info:

 

At 630cm some river cruise ships have problems sailing under the suspension bridge.

At 780cm all river traffic is halted in this section of the Danube.

 

The levels right now are far away from that. The river can rise fast but as of today, the forecasts both at Pfelling and Passau do not show levels that could get the river at Passau close to 600cm.

 

Monthly summary coming soon. If you have followed this thread for a while I think you can already tell what happened in September: while low at the beginning, overall the levels were better than we feared in August they would be.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

Thank you for all valuable info. Please keep us informed. Ours is on Oct 21 from Budapest to Amsterdam. I just hope for a smooth sailing because my 90 years old mom will go with us, and bus tour is going to be a big challenge for her. 

 

[corgifan8]

6 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Generally speaking, Passau to Bratislava experiences very few problems with low water. Pfelling is doing well by the way, 395cm. Passau is at 461cm. So all very good. This gives plenty of water to areas further downstream. Along the river downstream from Bratislava the gauges show a mixed picture. But as a high volume of water is now coming from Germany I am sure the situation will improve wherever the levels are not so favourable right now. Budapest has lost some water but looks to be doing okay:

 

In the opposite direction of problems, i.e. high water, I see no problems arising as of yet. It is raining so I will not rule out this happening at some point in the future at Passau.

 

What I mean is the bridge. This is Passau gauge: https://www.hnd.bayern.de/pegel/donau_bis_passau/passau-10091008

Under "Hochwassermarken" you can read the info:

 

At 630cm some river cruise ships have problems sailing under the suspension bridge.

At 780cm all river traffic is halted in this section of the Danube.

 

The levels right now are far away from that. The river can rise fast but as of today, the forecasts both at Pfelling and Passau do not show levels that could get the river at Passau close to 600cm.

 

Monthly summary coming soon. If you have followed this thread for a while I think you can already tell what happened in September: while low at the beginning, overall the levels were better than we feared in August they would be.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

This is useful as a resource for the days ahead. I appreciate your response, notamermaid! If you're still cruising, have a wonderful last bit of your trip. 🙂

[POD49]

We are currently on the River Voyager with Gate1.  We boarded in Regensburg going to Budapest on Sunday, September 25th.  Water level has been fine.  When we passed under the 2nd bridge in Regensburg they took down the canopies and lowered the wheel house.  I was on the top deck and had to squat down or lose my head.  We have had some light rain.  Currently in Vienna heading downriver early Friday.  Great ship, crew and passengers.

[newbrunswicker]

Glad to hear POD49, we have a Christmas Market cruise booked for Dec 13th. It was supposed to be on the Monarch Empress but was changed to the River Voyager. It looks like it is a fairly modern ship. 

 

[gnome12]

8 hours ago, POD49 said:

We are currently on the River Voyager with Gate1.  We boarded in Regensburg going to Budapest on Sunday, September 25th.  Water level has been fine.  When we passed under the 2nd bridge in Regensburg they took down the canopies and lowered the wheel house.  I was on the top deck and had to squat down or lose my head.  We have had some light rain.  Currently in Vienna heading downriver early Friday.  Great ship, crew and passengers.

I’m surprised they allowed you on the top deck. When I cruised this area they blocked off access to the sundeck. Even on the forward deck one level down we were required to sit going under the bridges. 

[notamermaid]

15 hours ago, corgifan8 said:

This is useful as a resource for the days ahead. I appreciate your response, notamermaid! If you're still cruising, have a wonderful last bit of your trip. 🙂

Glad it is helpful. Unfortunately I am not cruising, but sitting at home checking the sites on my computer. But fingers crossed, next year will see me back on a river.

 

notamermaid

 

[nanacallie]

We left the River Voyager last Sunday.  The trip was flawless.  It is a great riverboat with a wonderful crew. We couldn't have asked for anything more other than a little more sunshine.

[notamermaid]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:45 PM, nanacallie said:

We left the River Voyager last Sunday.  The trip was flawless.  It is a great riverboat with a wonderful crew. We couldn't have asked for anything more other than a little more sunshine.

That is lovely to read. Thank you for reporting.

 

Pfelling gauge peaked on 30 September and has gone down again. At 395cm, things are looking good for this coming week for sailing. The weather is improving with little to no rain and higher temperatures. Could this be a "Golden October" week? Looks somewhat promising but autumn colours may be better next weekend and into next week, it is a little early still for yellow (golden) and orange.

 

notamermaid

 

[clearlake_cruiser]

Currently onboard Monarch Empress from Budapest to Amsterdam. We've appreciated all the excellent info on this chapter and the Rhine water level chapter. Just to provide an update today: we are hoping to dock at Passau in a few hours but we are worried about too much water!?! Here's the updated gauge chart. Keeping fingers crossed 🙂

 

[clearlake_cruiser]

Latest update... We skipped our day stop in Passau (arrgh) & squeezed under a bridge. No further issues expected.

[tdl60]

We are on the Viking Rinda from October 16 to 23 for the "Danube Waltz".  I have a question for Notamermaid or anyone else who would know the answer.  What should we expect for weather at this time of year.  We go from Passau to Budapest.  TIA

[notamermaid]

22 hours ago, clearlake_cruiser said:

Latest update... We skipped our day stop in Passau (arrgh) & squeezed under a bridge. No further issues expected.

Thanks for reporting. Yes, that was a tight squeeze. The level rose fast. Sounds like it was a prudent idea to leave Passau behind. The level peaked at 657cm which is a problem zone for some river cruise ships, depending on superstructure of course. It is now down to 593cm but there is a wave coming, Pfelling has risen fast and is now at 534cm, with the high volume of water having reached Vilshofen. We will need to see how that affects Passau during this afternoon which to some extent depends on how much water is retained by the lock and dam at Kachlet.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

19 hours ago, tdl60 said:

I have a question for Notamermaid or anyone else who would know the answer.  What should we expect for weather at this time of year. 

Not too sure about further East but around Passau I would say definitely cool nights with potentially the odd very warm afternoon depending on weather pattern close to the Alps. Mild night frost possible, for morning excursions you may want to have hat, scarf and gloves. Walking shoes for rain are essential. Snow possible in the high hills if winter is early. Much is possible at this time of year and I think it is best to look at a current weather report close to your sailing date. Like accuweather or similar. For the areas past Vienna - over to those with sailing experience in autumn.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

It appears that due to the nature of the river between Vilshofen and Passau, together with the lock and dam, another significant rise at Passau did not happen. The level is now down to 506cm. Pfelling is at 412cm. That means in Germany and quite a few kilometres into Austria the river levels are great for sailing, neither too high nor too low and not in danger of reaching either status soon. Hopefully it is similar further downstream. In the Rhine valley it is sunny and bright with a little wind. I hope all cruisers on the Danube have the same fine weather right now.

 

notamermaid

 

[cuulong]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

It appears that due to the nature of the river between Vilshofen and Passau, together with the lock and dam, another significant rise at Passau did not happen. The level is now down to 506cm. Pfelling is at 412cm. That means in Germany and quite a few kilometres into Austria the river levels are great for sailing, neither too high nor too low and not in danger of reaching either status soon. Hopefully it is similar further downstream. In the Rhine valley it is sunny and bright with a little wind. I hope all cruisers on the Danube have the same fine weather right now.

 

notamermaid

 

Notamermaid: the current water level at Budapest is 3.6m but forecast show it will drop significantly every day and by Oct 12 it will be only 2.18m. Although there is no rain between today Oct 6 to Oct 12 that is still too much of a drop while the weather is cool and more on the chilly side. Can you explain why is that? Our cruise is Oct 21 but with this drop rate I am afraid that it will go under 1.2M by then. 

[notamermaid]

On 10/6/2022 at 8:51 PM, cuulong said:

Notamermaid: the current water level at Budapest is 3.6m but forecast show it will drop significantly every day and by Oct 12 it will be only 2.18m. Although there is no rain between today Oct 6 to Oct 12 that is still too much of a drop while the weather is cool and more on the chilly side. Can you explain why is that? Our cruise is Oct 21 but with this drop rate I am afraid that it will go under 1.2M by then. 

Interesting steady drop anticipated and not one that I can explain I think. I can say that it is the nature of the river before and at Budapest but that is not really that helpful. If I extrapolate this from what I know about the Rhine I can say that it is a mix of basic run-off, by that I mean what is in the ground water table and reaches the main channel in a steady low amount; the water given by the tributaries, water from the main channel through rain and what comes from the source in Germany, the channel man-made alterations (i.e. straightening and embankments), hills that alter the width of the valley and locks retaining water upstream. As regards the water table, Spring has been too low on rain and in autumn this shows on the Rhine and on the Danube now, as it has done in August already. In that month of course it was made worse by far too little rainfall. A high volume of water will cause a fast rise but in an environment altered by humans it can result in not enough water being retained in the low lands adjacent to the river and a somewhat channelled river letting it flow through too fast. I suspect this partly also applies to the Budapest built-up area. You are right, low temperatures should help in keeping the level up. I think they will do to some extent in that when the levels of the Danube reach a certain low, the baseline flow will keep it from falling further at the same rate as it does now. To know more about this we would then need to have an idea of how much water the locks upstream tend to retain.

 

Since you posted the forecast has moved of course and it now "sees" into the future to 16 October. We can see the line levelling off and I am hopeful that this will continue to be or become what I have described as a sort of baseline under which the river is unlikely to go now. But that is only an assumption from this laywoman as I have indicated above. Fingers crossed we will see rain in Bavaria towards the end of this week and if not, I hope that my thoughts on this are helpful to you.

 

 

notamermaid

 

 

[cuulong]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Interesting steady drop anticipated and not one that I can explain I think. I can say that it is the nature of the river before and at Budapest but that is not really that helpful. If I extrapolate this from what I know about the Rhine I can say that it is a mix of basic run-off, by that I mean what is in the ground water table and reaches the main channel in a steady low amount; the water given by the tributaries, water from the main channel through rain and what comes from the source in Germany, the channel man-made alterations (i.e. straightening and embankments), hills that alter the width of the valley and locks retaining water upstream. As regards the water table, Spring has been too low on rain and in autumn this shows on the Rhine and on the Danube now, as it has done in August already. In that month of course it was made worse by far too little rainfall. A high volume of water will cause a fast rise but in an environment altered by humans it can result in not enough water being retained in the low lands adjacent to the river and a somewhat channelled river letting it flow through too fast. I suspect this partly also applies to the Budapest built-up area. You are right, low temperatures should help in keeping the level up. I think they will do to some extent in that when the levels of the Danube reach a certain low, the baseline flow will keep it from falling further at the same rate as it does now. To know more about this we would then need to have an idea of how much water the locks upstream tend to retain.

 

Since you posted the forecast has moved of course and it now "sees" into the future to 16 October. We can see the line levelling off and I am hopeful that this will continue to be or become what I have described as a sort of baseline under which the river is unlikely to go now. But that is only an assumption from this laywoman as I have indicated above. Fingers crossed we will see rain in Bavaria towards the end of this week and if not, I hope that my thoughts on this are helpful to you.

 

 

notamermaid

 

 

I can't thank you enough for spending time to explain and give out your inputs. (You should be a professor in hydrology or maybe you are). From your information I think I understand somewhat in regard to the water flow not only from the surfaces from the tributaries but also from the underground. From the latest diagram I have noticed the deceleration of the water level drop, in fact, a little reverse direction at the end (from 1.75m to 1.76m) does give me hope. 

But let just say if there is no rain between now and then and the river water level continue to drop, what is the minimum number that you think is the cut line? for instant if it drops to 1m by Oct 21 is it still ok for the ship to depart? 

 

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, cuulong said:

(You should be a professor in hydrology or maybe you are).

No way will I ever be. Grin. But thanks for the compliment.

2 hours ago, cuulong said:

for instant if it drops to 1m by Oct 21 is it still ok for the ship to depart? 

I do not know, but I have tried to do a recap by looking back through the thread. On 22 August a cruiser said that they had boarded a Viking ship in Komarno as the river was too low in Budapest but later did dock in Budapest when the level rose. The graph that I posted some time later showed that the level was around one meter around that day (21 to 23 August). Note that this is anecdotal and may well not apply to your itinerary and river cruise ship.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by notamermaid
correction

[Canal archive]

Sorry but there is something that could throw the water level calculations out as in out of kilter and it depends on the size or even existence of ballast tanks on each vessel, and it’s the number of passengers. Just a few difference no problem but say 8, 10, 15 etc and then the weight comes into play. I suspect not a challenge on newer vessels but older ones maybe. I’m no navy architect although I am proud to say they did train me at the start of my working life.

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, Canal archive said:

Sorry but there is something that could throw the water level calculations out as in out of kilter and it depends on the size or even existence of ballast tanks on each vessel

Don't be sorry as this is a very important point and one I was trying to imply when I said anecdotal. It can only refer to a specific vessel, always. The size of ship and on top of that company operating it are an indication but each vessel has a minimal difference in how it reacts, a different captain, sailing upstream or downstream, at which time of day, etc. and what the crew can do with the ballast tanks.

 

In short: there is no strict line (figure), just a margin, or width of figures, of river level that can give a likely scenario. Brutally speaking: especially in autumn on the Danube expect anything when you book.

 

Pfelling gauge: in the absence of rain it is falling steadily, as one would expect. Now at 332cm. The decline is slowing down and could be reduced to single figures within 24 hours. Right now the forecast suggests 322cm for tomorrow morning and little change on that for Thursday. We have no forecast that looks further into the future. Weather forecast suggests rain on Friday and potentially at the weekend. All in all relatively mild and dry weather with few autumn storms. I think we need to look at Pfelling again on Friday. First, the September summary in a graph.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Canal archive]

Yes we sometimes forget the sheer power of water.