Is there a way to find out how many covid cases are on Carnival ships now?

[Guest ldtr]

7 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Except if your logic was correct than we would have kicked this pandemic - we are all aware that vaccine and testing is not enough and people still get it. So feeling safe with vaccine and testing is no different than your magical blanket as a child. This is why people want the mandates dropped because they don’t work.  So yes ships are different because of the constant exposure to the same people which would be improbable anywhere on land.

It all depends upon how one defines working.  Do they keep 100% of cases off ships and eliminate all infections on board no.  Do they help limit the cases on board and do they reduce spread yes.  Testing, as it is done now is probably good for catching 50% of cases and keeping those cases off ship, Vaccination, if current (boosted within 6 months), even with current strains is good for reducing spread by about 40%,  as well as reduces the severity of infection for a much greater number, masking, if used, reduces rate of spread by up to 50%.

 

So as far as cruise line decision tree it is not about zero cases of Covid on board,  But more of how many cases are they willing have on board.  The difference between use of the various mitigation tools could mean the difference between 20 cases or 200 cases on board during even a 7 day cruise.

So it all comes down to over all perception of the cruising public.  How much will the number of cases impact the publics willingness to cruise.  How likely is someone that contacted Covid on a ship be willing to cruise?  How much does the number of cases on board impact the health of the crew, their ability to staff the ship and provide quality service?

 

It is not a matter to the cruise lines of  just thinking that  they do not keep all cases off the ship so we will just get rid of them.

 

 

[Stick93]

2 minutes ago, ldtr said:

It all depends upon how one defines working.  Do they keep 100% of cases off ships and eliminate all infections on board no.  Do they help limit the cases on board and do they reduce spread yes.  Testing, as it is done now is probably good for catching 50% of cases and keeping those cases off ship, Vaccination, if current (boosted within 6 months), even with current strains is good for reducing spread by about 40%,  as well as reduces the severity of infection for a much greater number, masking, if used, reduces rate of spread by up to 50%.

 

So as far as cruise line decision tree it is not about zero cases of Covid on board,  But more of how many cases are they willing have on board.  The difference between use of the various mitigation tools could mean the difference between 20 cases or 200 cases on board during even a 7 day cruise.

So it all comes down to over all perception of the cruising public.  How much will the number of cases impact the publics willingness to cruise.  How likely is someone that contacted Covid on a ship be willing to cruise?  How much does the number of cases on board impact the health of the crew, their ability to staff the ship and provide quality service?

 

It is not a matter to the cruise lines of  just thinking that  they do not keep all cases off the ship so we will just get rid of them.

 

 

I think the issue debated is why would this be needed if a ship is just like your local restaurant or grocery store. They don’t test - 
Are you  saying that ships are uniquely different? 

[Guest ldtr]

14 hours ago, TheSeagoer said:

You are rarely with the same people for seven days. How are the elevators on a ship different than a hotel? How is a ships restaurant different that a restaurant at home? How is a bar on ship different than a bar at home?

Lets take a look at the environments.

 

Many try to compare cruise ships to separate locations on land and try and claim equivalence.

 

On a cruise ship one spends a lot of time in relatively crowded, small volume inside spaces.  The nature of cruising means that people are constantly intermixing and they go to various activities, lounges, dining, etc.  By the time one completes a 7 day cruise they will have come in contact with, or atleast passed by a high percentage of the people on the ship.  This is why studies have shown that cruise ships have a very high rate of spread (R0).  As one study put it the rate of spread on board a ship was higher than anyplace else studies, including family members living in the same household.

 

When one goes to any of the locations on land that are used for comparisons the number of people that one comes in contact to is relatively low.  For example if I go to a store, I may closely pass by 10 or 15 people during my time in the store.  Lots of people in the store, not many close.  Same with a land hotel, I usually do not encounter many people in hotel corridors or even in hotel elevators.  In most cases maybe 1 or 2 in either a hallway or elevator.  Different story about elevators in a business where many people are arriving to work near the same time.

 

Land restaurants pretty much same story. The number of people is relatively fixed during the meal so risk is limited to those in close proximity (one of the reasons while setting in a dining room on a ship is lower risk than sitting in a bar on the ship).  Different story if you go to a crowded bar with lots of people standing around.

 

It all comes down to the number of people that one comes in contact with during a given period of time.  Lower number = lower risk, higher number = higher risk everything else being the same (such as incidence rate in a given population, R0 of disease, vaccination rate, etc)

 

Add all of that to the fact that cruise ships are unique, you are in that environment for an extended period of time.  You are in the environment where by going on the cruise you surrender some of your ability to make choices (you can check out of a land based hotel any time you want and leave, you can get up from a restaurant and totally leave the facility anytime you want.  No so much on a cruise ship.  You are at sea, your ability to leave is limited.  Because of that unlike a land based business, where if someone gets ill they usually 1. Do not know and 2. Do not have any responsibility. As such their concerns are pretty much limited to keeping their staff healthy.  With cruise ships you are on board that the ship bears some responsibility for care and also bears some of the consequences for rate of infection both on the number of passengers that get ill with a clear trail to the ship as well as the fact that they only carry and can carry a limited of staff.  Anything beyond having a small number of staff ill means that ships operations are impacted.  They unlike a land business cannot just schedule another employee and call them into work.

 

Unless you book a cruise and decide to stay in your cabin the same things that make cruising attractive, also drive the levels of interaction between passengers. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

10 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

I think the issue debated is why would this be needed if a ship is just like your local restaurant or grocery store. They don’t test - 
Are you  saying that ships are uniquely different? 

Yes, as I just posted in response for someone else.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, TheSeagoer said:

Nobody knows what this means

It is easy, almost every thread on covid get heated and is either locked or deleted.  The only point of this thread was can someone know how many cases.  They used to be reported by ship and are no longer tracked or reported.  The answer is simple. Some ike and some do not.  The cruise ondustry and the CDC are pretty much on the same page.  What we here think on the topic really does not matter.  We can voted with our wallets, either sail or not sail.

[Guest ldtr]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

It is easy, almost every thread on covid get heated and is either locked or deleted.  The only point of this thread was can someone know how many cases.  They used to be reported by ship and are no longer tracked or reported.  The answer is simple. Some ike and some do not.  The cruise ondustry and the CDC are pretty much on the same page.  What we here think on the topic really does not matter.  We can voted with our wallets, either sail or not sail.

Been on 6 cruises since restart. Have not run into a single case of the cruise lines telling the passengers the number of cases.  You did have some examples at the very start of the restart, when occupancy was low and restrictions high, prior to the more infectious strains where the cruise lines (Royal Caribbean for all of its lines for example) where they made a point of only having X cases out of Y number of passengers since the restart.  Or a couple cases that were unique enough to make the news (NCL ship in New Orleans or Ruby Princess in SFO) where the number of cases on a cruise was reported.  But in general the cruise lines have tended to be very quiet on the number of cases they have on any individual cruise.

 

I did an FOI request for a 2 month period that covered a period where there were changes made in the restrictions to see if the data indicated any material change in infection rates, just out of personal curiosity.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

Been on 6 cruises since restart. Have not run into a single case of the cruise lines telling the passengers the number of cases.  You did have some examples at the very start of the restart, when occupancy was low and restrictions high, prior to the more infectious strains where the cruise lines (Royal Caribbean for all of its lines for example) where they made a point of only having X cases out of Y number of passengers since the restart.  Or a couple cases that were unique enough to make the news (NCL ship in New Orleans or Ruby Princess in SFO) where the number of cases on a cruise was reported.  But in general the cruise lines have tended to be very quiet on the number of cases they have on any individual cruise.

 

I did an FOI request for a 2 month period that covered a period where there were changes made in the restrictions to see if the data indicated any material change in infection rates, just out of personal curiosity.

Why would they be anything other than quiet.  What possible service would it provide.

[Itried4498]

A lot of cases don't happen until passengers have embarked from the cruise.  These aren't reported/attributed to that cruise, and in the era of self-testing, often aren't reported to the health department as well.

 

We got off a 4-day cruise on RCL's Navigator of the Seas two weeks ago and we both tested positive for COVID.  My illness wasn't bad-bad, but it was bad - it kept me out of work last week, and I've required two or three 10-minute naps every day this week to get through work (and I go to bed immediately when I get home).  We were suppose to be on the Paradise over Labor Day weekend, but are going to cancel since I'm a tax accountant and can't afford to get sick that time of year (I'll lose clients if I don't get their returns out).

Edited July 21, 2022 by Itried4498

[TheSeagoer]

9 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Why would they be anything other than quiet.  What possible service would it provide.

It's a question that cannot be answered

[Guest ldtr]

26 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Why would they be anything other than quiet.  What possible service would it provide.

Just responding to your comment about the ships telling passengers the number of cases.  Really not happening since restart expect for a couple of unusual cases.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, TheSeagoer said:

It's a question that cannot be answered

LOL, well I guess it was more of a rhetorical thing…..

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, ldtr said:

Just responding to your comment about the ships telling passengers the number of cases.  Really not happening since restart expect for a couple of unusual cases.

I agree, they have not.  There really is no reason to (my attempt to answer your question).  They (Carnival) want to minimized the effect that covid has had the stranglehold has had on the industry.  Publishing (any) data defeats the purpose, regardless on whatever the number is/was.  Of they did that and published a number, I might think it to high….you might think the opposite (or vise a versa).  THE CDC WAS ALL over it so there was no purpose.  I have been on six cruises since restart, I concentrated on CRUISING, not how were or were not sick, plenty of others were all over that.  

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

22 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I agree, they have not.  There really is no reason to (my attempt to answer your question).  They (Carnival) want to minimized the effect that covid has had the stranglehold has had on the industry.  Publishing (any) data defeats the purpose, regardless on whatever the number is/was.  Of they did that and published a number, I might think it to high….you might think the opposite (or vise a versa).  THE CDC WAS ALL over it so there was no purpose.  I have been on six cruises since restart, I concentrated on CRUISING, not how were or were not sick, plenty of others were all over that.  

 

Yep - as much as I'm a stats driven person, I think we just need to get along with things.

 

(disclaimer, I own a few thousand shares of CCL stock, and am looking forward to smoother seas ahead.... one day!!)

 

Tom

[jimbo5544]

27 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Yep - as much as I'm a stats driven person, I think we just need to get along with things.

 

(disclaimer, I own a few thousand shares of CCL stock, and am looking forward to smoother seas ahead.... one day!!)

 

Tom

I resemble that.