This is not a Viking review…

[eddieg07410]

5 hours ago, WNcruiser said:

I understand their post, but that is another risk of cruising right now. You have 900 others with you that unfortunately you have no control of how they choose to act re Covid. 

You definitely need to consider all that when choosing to cruise these days. 

 

Why should you have to assume a worst case scenario when you cruise. Consider the fact that more than 80 percent of cruisers are over 60, many of who are in the high risk category?very vulnerable to theShould all of these people be excluded from cruising? Should they expect when they take precautions, they get abuse from their fellow pasI guess I am expecting too much from humans.

[LindaS272]

1 hour ago, TayanaLorna said:

Linda, I also thought Viking had the right to ask someone to take a test for Covid and they do indeed.  It is in Passenger Ticket Contract under 11. Public Health Section d. COVID 19 Policies and Procedures.  Viking "may" ask a passenger to test for Covid.  Viking "may" also require masking, contact tracing, completion of health declarations, temperature checks and more.  Section e. Outlines the consequences of noncompliance.  This info is from a document sent to us for our next cruise so if is not out of date.  I also thought i saw it elsewhere but have not found that source.

Yes, and I thought it was reiterated clearly somewhere after masking requirements were dropped—so not just in the ticket contract (which most don’t read, sadly.) I’ll keep looking.

[TayanaLorna]

2 hours ago, LindaS272 said:

Yes, and I thought it was reiterated clearly somewhere after masking requirements were dropped—so not just in the ticket contract (which most don’t read, sadly.) I’ll keep looking.

Yes the document said 3 things regarding Covid testing - the guest can request a test if feeling unwell, the guest can request a test upon disembarkation if one was needed for further travel and Viking could request a passenger take a test.

 

[BunlessInSeattle]

We were on the same cruise, and were part of that 10% masking. I felt bad for the passengers as halfway through the cruise, you started to see more and more of the red bagged room service trays. I'm personally ready to be done with wearing a mask, but glad I stuck to it on the cruise as I'd hate to be stuck in my room instead of enjoying the ports of call.

 

[TayanaLorna]

I appreciate all the comments here and especially those who do mask to protect themselves and others, as well as those who admit they are sick, test and quarantine. 

 

A question to those who masked and did not get Covid:  what kind of mask did you wear?  I am remembering many people claim that they do mask, did everything right but still got Covid on a ship.  Case in point is our GP doctor who went on a cruise to Alaska.  He claims he did everything right.  However we have never seen him or any of his staff wear a N95 or KN95 mask.  The black paper mask we see there are always slipping down their noses and are certainly not tight fitting around the face.

 

Just thinking about how many N95 masks we need to order for our next cruise.  Went on 2 cruises last year - one in the height of the Delta strain and one at the very beginning of the Omicron strain.  We all wore the black masks provided by and as required by Viking and neither ship had a single case of Covid.

 

I know this is off topic but there seem to be some safely masked cruisers on this board.

[eddieg07410]

It would seem while unable to police inconsiderate passengers that Viking should still remind passengers what to do when coughing and posting signs, much like they do with hand washing. IOf people will act like babies they need to be treated as babies.

[TayanaLorna]

12 hours ago, BunlessInSeattle said:

We were on the same cruise, and were part of that 10% masking. I felt bad for the passengers as halfway through the cruise, you started to see more and more of the red bagged room service trays. I'm personally ready to be done with wearing a mask, but glad I stuck to it on the cruise as I'd hate to be stuck in my room instead of enjoying the ports of call.

 

Red bagged room service trays?  If guests are quarantined, then apparently they are requesting a Covid test themselves or being asked by Viking.  

[CDNPolar]

47 minutes ago, TayanaLorna said:

I appreciate all the comments here and especially those who do mask to protect themselves and others, as well as those who admit they are sick, test and quarantine. 

 

A question to those who masked and did not get Covid:  what kind of mask did you wear?  I am remembering many people claim that they do mask, did everything right but still got Covid on a ship.  Case in point is our GP doctor who went on a cruise to Alaska.  He claims he did everything right.  However we have never seen him or any of his staff wear a N95 or KN95 mask.  The black paper mask we see there are always slipping down their noses and are certainly not tight fitting around the face.

 

Just thinking about how many N95 masks we need to order for our next cruise.  Went on 2 cruises last year - one in the height of the Delta strain and one at the very beginning of the Omicron strain.  We all wore the black masks provided by and as required by Viking and neither ship had a single case of Covid.

 

I know this is off topic but there seem to be some safely masked cruisers on this board.

I have read and studied and read and studied and throughout the pandemic worn N95's and medical grade surgical masks.  

 

2 years of hand hygiene and masking and no covid.  

 

One cruise last December masked all through including on excursions.  No covid.

 

I traveled to South Africa for work in the spring.  N95 never came off my face for 14 days and I returned home with Covid.  I did everything according to plan.  No one that I worked with was sick.  I can only assume that I got it on an aircraft, but more likely in an airport.  

 

Heathrow airport was a disaster.  No one masked, people sneezing and coughing everywhere.  

 

I put it down to you can do all the right things and still get it - and I still do believe that masking and hand hygiene are necessary.

 

My case was mild which I put down to the fact that I am double vaxed and double boosted.

 

I personally think that it is large gatherings of people.  Airports especially if they are crowded.

 

We are still booking cruises and still plan to cruise, and we fully recognize the risk.

 

 

[TayanaLorna]

8 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

I have read and studied and read and studied and throughout the pandemic worn N95's and medical grade surgical masks.  

 

2 years of hand hygiene and masking and no covid.  

 

One cruise last December masked all through including on excursions.  No covid.

 

I traveled to South Africa for work in the spring.  N95 never came off my face for 14 days and I returned home with Covid.  I did everything according to plan.  No one that I worked with was sick.  I can only assume that I got it on an aircraft, but more likely in an airport.  

 

Heathrow airport was a disaster.  No one masked, people sneezing and coughing everywhere.  

 

I put it down to you can do all the right things and still get it - and I still do believe that masking and hand hygiene are necessary.

 

My case was mild which I put down to the fact that I am double vaxed and double boosted.

 

I personally think that it is large gatherings of people.  Airports especially if they are crowded.

 

We are still booking cruises and still plan to cruise, and we fully recognize the risk.

 

 

Thank you so much.  Good to know.  Sounds like the N95's are the best choice.  We are used to wearing them for long periods already.  We chose our next cruise because it boards in San Juan and we live in PR.  Can avoid airports and planes until we return home.  We are fully vaxed and boosted.  Hoping to get an omicron targeted booster when available.  Sounds like next step of protection is social distancing and especially away from those exhibiting any symptoms.  Hand sanitizing is a given.

 

[janetcbl]

1 hour ago, TayanaLorna said:

I appreciate all the comments here and especially those who do mask to protect themselves and others, as well as those who admit they are sick, test and quarantine. 

 

A question to those who masked and did not get Covid:  what kind of mask did you wear?  I am remembering many people claim that they do mask, did everything right but still got Covid on a ship.  Case in point is our GP doctor who went on a cruise to Alaska.  He claims he did everything right.  However we have never seen him or any of his staff wear a N95 or KN95 mask.  The black paper mask we see there are always slipping down their noses and are certainly not tight fitting around the face.

 

Just thinking about how many N95 masks we need to order for our next cruise.  Went on 2 cruises last year - one in the height of the Delta strain and one at the very beginning of the Omicron strain.  We all wore the black masks provided by and as required by Viking and neither ship had a single case of Covid.

 

I know this is off topic but there seem to be some safely masked cruisers on this board.

N95. I bought two packages of 10 masks each  (one for my husband and one for me). We alternated them daily and the 10 each were sufficient for our 28 day cruise, plus two International plane trips. (IMO😁).

[Heidi13]

48 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

I have read and studied and read and studied and throughout the pandemic worn N95's and medical grade surgical masks.  

 

2 years of hand hygiene and masking and no covid.  

 

One cruise last December masked all through including on excursions.  No covid.

 

I traveled to South Africa for work in the spring.  N95 never came off my face for 14 days and I returned home with Covid.  I did everything according to plan.  No one that I worked with was sick.  I can only assume that I got it on an aircraft, but more likely in an airport.  

 

Heathrow airport was a disaster.  No one masked, people sneezing and coughing everywhere.  

 

I put it down to you can do all the right things and still get it - and I still do believe that masking and hand hygiene are necessary.

 

My case was mild which I put down to the fact that I am double vaxed and double boosted.

 

I personally think that it is large gatherings of people.  Airports especially if they are crowded.

 

We are still booking cruises and still plan to cruise, and we fully recognize the risk.

 

Great post, so sorry you contracted COVID, even after taking all the precautions.

 

We also took all the precautions and have avoided COVID, except when we had a friend for dinner, who was not symptomatic. His wife worked at Childrens Hospital, so was tested daily. She was also non-symptomatic, but tested positive at work the evening he had dinner with us. When he got tested, he was also positive.

 

The N95 masks filter out 95% of pollutants (about 3 microns), but are only as effective as the seal around the face, therefore while they provide great protection, they are not infallible. Using the "Swiss Cheese Model" of risk mitigation, the N95/KN95's should be used with other techniques to enhance safety - social distancing, mask management, hand washing, etc. Unfortunately, on an aircraft, social distancing is impossible, so the risk of the mask being compromised is higher.

 

To guarantee safety from COVID, we would require a 1/2 mask respirator. The 1/2 mask respirators require an appropriate cartridge, best guess is a HEPA filter, and you must ensure a complete face seal. We received annual testing where they sprayed our face with a bitter, vile smelling spray. If we could smell it, we didn't have a seal. If we couldn't attain a seal, we could not enter any hazardous environment. We also did a seal test prior to each use.

 

Outside of a work environment that is IDLH, the N95 masks are more than adequate for protection, provided they are used properly and with other risk mitigation strategies. While we mostly use multi-layer cloth masks these days, in higher risk places we revert to medical grade or N95 masks, depending on the risk.

[CDNPolar]

2 hours ago, TayanaLorna said:

Thank you so much.  Good to know.  Sounds like the N95's are the best choice.  We are used to wearing them for long periods already.  We chose our next cruise because it boards in San Juan and we live in PR.  Can avoid airports and planes until we return home.  We are fully vaxed and boosted.  Hoping to get an omicron targeted booster when available.  Sounds like next step of protection is social distancing and especially away from those exhibiting any symptoms.  Hand sanitizing is a given.

 

One thing that I will do on the next cruise when visiting the buffet is after serving myself, I will return to the hand washing station and wash my hands again before starting to eat.  We saw many coughing into their hands walking along the buffet and then picking up the tongs.  I do believe that this is a transmission point and it can be mitigated with a simple hand wash.

[LindaS272]

3 hours ago, TayanaLorna said:

A question to those who masked and did not get Covid:  what kind of mask did you wear? 

We use the powecom KN95 ear loop masks from ProjectN95.org or bonafidemasks.com. Made it through the TA from SJ to Barcelona, then three days in Barcelona and three days in London, Mar. 19 to April 8 this year.

Edited August 19, 2022 by LindaS272

[TayanaLorna]

14 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

One thing that I will do on the next cruise when visiting the buffet is after serving myself, I will return to the hand washing station and wash my hands again before starting to eat.  We saw many coughing into their hands walking along the buffet and then picking up the tongs.  I do believe that this is a transmission point and it can be mitigated with a simple hand wash.

We always carried the little sanitizer bottle found in our stateroom and used it after every time we returned from the buffet.  I carried it on my person most of the time because i liked to use the stairs but must hold on to the rail.  I would use the stairs, open the doors, find my seat wherever then sit and use the sanitizer. Does Viking still provide bottles in the room?

 

This is our first cruise since Viking dropped the Covid protocols so we are a bit uneasy and planning ahead of time how to protect ourselves.

[TayanaLorna]

7 minutes ago, LindaS272 said:

We use the powecom KN95 ear loop masks from the ProjectN95.org or bonafidemasks.com. Made it through the TA from SJ to Barcelona, then three days in Barcelona and three days in London, Mar. 19 to April 8 this year.

Thanks for the recommendation.  Are the KN masks NOT made in China?  Been avoiding them but don't care for the around the head strap of the N95.  So glad you finally did that TA.

[CDNPolar]

14 minutes ago, TayanaLorna said:

We always carried the little sanitizer bottle found in our stateroom and used it after every time we returned from the buffet.  I carried it on my person most of the time because i liked to use the stairs but must hold on to the rail.  I would use the stairs, open the doors, find my seat wherever then sit and use the sanitizer. Does Viking still provide bottles in the room?

 

This is our first cruise since Viking dropped the Covid protocols so we are a bit uneasy and planning ahead of time how to protect ourselves.

On our cruise in May Viking still had the sanitizer - little green bottles - in the staterooms.

[CurlerRob]

4 hours ago, TayanaLorna said:

I appreciate all the comments here and especially those who do mask to protect themselves and others, as well as those who admit they are sick, test and quarantine. 

 

A question to those who masked and did not get Covid:  what kind of mask did you wear?  I am remembering many people claim that they do mask, did everything right but still got Covid on a ship.  Case in point is our GP doctor who went on a cruise to Alaska.  He claims he did everything right.  However we have never seen him or any of his staff wear a N95 or KN95 mask.  The black paper mask we see there are always slipping down their noses and are certainly not tight fitting around the face.

 

Just thinking about how many N95 masks we need to order for our next cruise.  Went on 2 cruises last year - one in the height of the Delta strain and one at the very beginning of the Omicron strain.  We all wore the black masks provided by and as required by Viking and neither ship had a single case of Covid.

 

I know this is off topic but there seem to be some safely masked cruisers on this board.

 

Andy's post (#36) is quite definitive - especially his reference to the "Swiss Cheese" approach - that's completely accurate and critical.

 

Here's the logic I apply:

 

- Any mask is better than no mask.

- Some masks (KN95 / N95) are better than others.

- When worn by you, all masks (with the exception of respirators) do a better job of protecting others than they do of protecting you (particles are more easily trapped 'outbound' than they are filtered out 'inbound' due to the usual imperfect seal).

- Even the x95 masks are far from perfect unless well fitted and properly worn - most people can't stand doing that (think of the pictures you saw of health care workers with the deep gouges in their faces from a masked shift - that's what a proper x95 seal does to you).

-All the other precautions need to be used as well, as Andy described.

 

We are about to re-enter the fray in November (4 shots and 1 infection later) and will be using all the masking / sanitation precautions possible. That said, we also recognize that it's a bit of a lottery - the risk of re-infection is real and is ultimately on us for choosing to cruise.

 

Best of luck and a safe trip! 🍺🥌

[formernuke]

1 hour ago, TayanaLorna said:

Thanks for the recommendation.  Are the KN masks NOT made in China?  Been avoiding them but don't care for the around the head strap of the N95.  So glad you finally did that TA.

KN-95 masks are made in  Asia (China, Korea,etc.). At the start of the pandemic, since N95s were in short supply, we ordered tens of thousands of KN-95's because we could get them. Our Industrial Hygiene lab tested these, and while the material itself did in fact meet the spec of filtering >95% of  particles in the correct size range, pretty much every one that they tested on a person (an actual numerical penetration test, not just the 'smell' tests often used) failed because it was extremely difficult to make them fit tight enough to the face, so particles regularly went around.

 

They are certainly better than common paper masks and g better than most cloth masks, bandanas and the like, but they don't meet N95 performance. During the height of the early pandemic we used full or half face respirators or at least N95's. 

[TayanaLorna]

50 minutes ago, CurlerRob said:

 

Andy's post (#36) is quite definitive - especially his reference to the "Swiss Cheese" approach - that's completely accurate and critical.

 

Here's the logic I apply:

 

- Any mask is better than no mask.

- Some masks (KN95 / N95) are better than others.

- When worn by you, all masks (with the exception of respirators) do a better job of protecting others than they do of protecting you (particles are more easily trapped 'outbound' than they are filtered out 'inbound' due to the usual imperfect seal).

- Even the x95 masks are far from perfect unless well fitted and properly worn - most people can't stand doing that (think of the pictures you saw of health care workers with the deep gouges in their faces from a masked shift - that's what a proper x95 seal does to you).

-All the other precautions need to be used as well, as Andy described.

 

We are about to re-enter the fray in November (4 shots and 1 infection later) and will be using all the masking / sanitation precautions possible. That said, we also recognize that it's a bit of a lottery - the risk of re-infection is real and is ultimately on us for choosing to cruise.

 

Best of luck and a safe trip! 🍺🥌

Excellent analysis.  Safe trip to you also.

[2cruisecats]

5 hours ago, TayanaLorna said:

 

A question to those who masked and did not get Covid:  what kind of mask did you wear? 

........

Just thinking about how many N95 masks we need to order for our next cruise.  Went on 2 cruises last year - one in the height of the Delta strain and one at the very beginning of the Omicron strain.  We all wore the black masks provided by and as required by Viking and neither ship had a single case of Covid.

 

We used the KN94 (aka Korean) masks on our cruise in June as we found them a better fit for my husband.  Our Dr  made an interesting suggestion --- 1 mask/flight but on the Toronto-London leg, change the mask partway. Also, if any length of time in an airport, change out the mask.  Each day , new mask. If we were on a crowded tour or too long on the bus, we would pull out a new masks for that evening, esp if we went to any entertainment.    I think we got "mask fatigue" when we got to Oslo so were a bit lax  that week but did pull them back out for the trip home. Masks were never re-used.  We took a pack of 50 KN94s and used the Viking masks in the evenings to ensure we had enough KN94s for the trip home.  Yes that is a lot of masks.

 

I did develop a cough and tested -- no issue.  We think it was from wearing masks for so long.  I am asthmatic and did need to up my dosage.

 

Editing to add -- I took packs of unscented baby wipes (Shoppers brand) and added some Isopropyl alcohol.  I used them to wipe down surfaces and our hands.   Always have a pack in my purse.

Edited August 19, 2022 by 2cruisecats

[BunlessInSeattle]

6 hours ago, TayanaLorna said:

A question to those who masked and did not get Covid:  what kind of mask did you wear? 

My spouse wore a 94 or 95 ( i can't remember which) the entire time, on and off the boat. Exceptions were in the spa, where we were most every day, but was sparsely populated, and once we sat down for a meal.

 

I wore the paper masks provided. On the ship I was masked the same amount of time as my spouse.  Off the ship, I tended to observe my space and get a feel for it based on crowding, air flow, etc, and would choose wether I would mask or not based on that. 

 

We are both double vaccinated and boosted. Unable to get a second booster because of our age. Neither one of us have had Covid. 

[LindaS272]

2 hours ago, TayanaLorna said:

Thanks for the recommendation.  Are the KN masks NOT made in China?  Been avoiding them but don't care for the around the head strap of the N95.  So glad you finally did that TA.

We’re glad we did too!🤗 

 

No, I believe the KN95 masks from powecom are made in China but they are vetted as the real deal by ProjectN95.org & bonafidemasks where I buy them. I found out about those two organizations through recommendations by epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists in media interviews.

[CCWineLover]

45 minutes ago, LindaS272 said:

We’re glad we did too!🤗 

 

No, I believe the KN95 masks from powecom are made in China but they are vetted as the real deal by ProjectN95.org & bonafidemasks where I buy them. I found out about those two organizations through recommendations by epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists in media interviews.

Linda - we also swear by the power on KN 95 masks. Used them constantly on our cruises.  It has been much riskier once Viking said masks were not required as 90-95% immediately unmasked all the time.

we also in the world cafe get our food to the table and immediately go wash our hands again.  We would do this every time we got more food.  Only saw one other coii you ple doing this.  We’re appalled at the numbers of people that rushed in and never washed their hands. Selfish, stupid, oblivious?

we also avoided places like Star Theatre which seemed a Covid hotbed.

[FlyerTalker]

A couple of quick points:

 

1) The fact that it says KN95 does not mean that it was made in China, just as N95 does not mean that it was made in the USA.  What those designations mean is that the mask meets the KN95 or N95 FILTRATION STANDARD (however it is designated).  It does not specify the design or sizing or straps or other aspects.  So if Lorna doesn't like a particular N95 strap design, that doesn't mean all N95s have the same.

 

2) Just because it states "N95" or "KN95" or whatever on the mask, it doesn't mean that it actually meets that standard.  It merely means that the manufacturer says it does.  Just as there are counterfeit auto parts, counterfeit drugs and more, there are also counterfeit masks out there.  So you are trusting the veracity of both the manufacturer and the retailer, to say nothing of the "testing" company that ostensibly tested the masks to standard.  You might want to ask yourself why some companies sell masks for significantly less, or more, than the mass of other retailers.

 

Caveat emptor

[LindaS272]

1 hour ago, FlyerTalker said:

A couple of quick points:

 

1) The fact that it says KN95 does not mean that it was made in China, just as N95 does not mean that it was made in the USA.  What those designations mean is that the mask meets the KN95 or N95 FILTRATION STANDARD (however it is designated).  It does not specify the design or sizing or straps or other aspects.  So if Lorna doesn't like a particular N95 strap design, that doesn't mean all N95s have the same.

 

2) Just because it states "N95" or "KN95" or whatever on the mask, it doesn't mean that it actually meets that standard.  It merely means that the manufacturer says it does.  Just as there are counterfeit auto parts, counterfeit drugs and more, there are also counterfeit masks out there.  So you are trusting the veracity of both the manufacturer and the retailer, to say nothing of the "testing" company that ostensibly tested the masks to standard.  You might want to ask yourself why some companies sell masks for significantly less, or more, than the mass of other retailers.

 

Caveat emptor

FlyerTalker—that’s why I only purchase masks from ProjectN95.org and bonafidemasks.com because I’ve checked these companies out and trust that they vetted the masks properly—thorough research through trusted medical professionals.