Dear Princess Management, I Hope You Read This

[caribill]

3 hours ago, ldtr said:

 

If you want a shared table under the new system ask for one, if you and the people you share the table with them ask at the check in desk after the first night for you to continue to share the rest of the cruise with the same people. Works just fine.

 

That assumes the peoplem with you the first evening were there at that time because they wanted to eat every evening at that time.

 

But there is a good chance you were seated with people who just wanted to eat at that time one evening or had no reservation (like the old AT) and just were hungry that evening at the same time you had a reservation for.

[caribill]

2 hours ago, ldtr said:

When?

 

Remember that while there was two dining rooms for early td and only one for late. they would often be wait listed prior to some cruises.

 

For a long time Princess had early dining around 5:30 and late dining around 7:45.

 

Demand was high for early dining and then had two dining rooms reserved for that and only one for late seating.

 

But a number of people complained that 7:45 was too late for them, so Princess moved the early time to 5 and adjusted the late time also to be earlier. However, a number of people who had thought 7:45 was too late for dinner and thus had early TD felt that 5 was too early for dinner and 7:15 would be perfect.

 

That is when demand dropped for early TD and went up for late TD.

[travelin.sisters]

9 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Just to be sure, was the reservation for a time other than when the dining room first opens?

 

And did were the number of passengers close to 100% occupancy on your cruises?

I answered this last night but I guess it never posted...sigh, the joys of MedallionNet internet...yes at 6:20 & our current cruise is about 81% (dining is very slow because we are the RTS cruise for the Sapphire & there are many new crew)...our other two in January were less than half

[BabySarge]

I thank you all for your input; yes, even those of you telling me to stop complaining, get over myself, accept the changes, move on, cruise a different line, or just endure and suffer like you had to.  I'm not asking or hoping that Princess change the entire dining system back to totally traditional dining.  I get that times change and it is an option that many cruising today do not like and do not want.  I'm simply asking or hoping that Princess could figure out a way to work with those of us that do want that experience.   I would just like to find an equitable solution for both sides of the "argument" on the cruise line we like.

The thing is I truly believe there is a way those who wish to have a dining experience other than traditional can have that with Princess and those of us that wish to have a traditional dining experience can have that with Princess too.  

Naively or not I do believe there is a solution and that Princess monitors these boards and reads what is posted here.  

[Guest ldtr]

10 hours ago, Kay S said:

Your experience is yours.  Mine is mine, 27 Princess cruises on 15 ships.  I remember what happened.  I'm not senile yet.  🙂 

Over what period was the 27 cruises, all in 2019?  The 5 I was referring to was between October 2019 and March 2020 with the last being the last cruise of Royal before shutdown.  TD was becoming increasingly empty on board, even if many had it pre cruise.   The number of empty spots in TD was pretty obvious.

[Guest ldtr]

9 hours ago, caribill said:

 

For a long time Princess had early dining around 5:30 and late dining around 7:45.

 

Demand was high for early dining and then had two dining rooms reserved for that and only one for late seating.

 

But a number of people complained that 7:45 was too late for them, so Princess moved the early time to 5 and adjusted the late time also to be earlier. However, a number of people who had thought 7:45 was too late for dinner and thus had early TD felt that 5 was too early for dinner and 7:15 would be perfect.

 

That is when demand dropped for early TD and went up for late TD.

Which was still only 1 dining room for lateTD.  Even though it was wait listed pre cruise how many of the spots were actually filled when the cruise was in progress compared to requested time slot.  

[Guest ldtr]

9 hours ago, caribill said:

 

That assumes the peoplem with you the first evening were there at that time because they wanted to eat every evening at that time.

 

But there is a good chance you were seated with people who just wanted to eat at that time one evening or had no reservation (like the old AT) and just were hungry that evening at the same time you had a reservation for.

Sure, but if you really all want to eat together the rest of the trip you can make it happen, just as if you run into someone else that you hit it off with during the cruise you can get them added to your table and covert you shared table to a td like table with people you actually want to eat with. It is all about flexibility. Which of course is far to difficult for some people, but greatly appreciated by others.

 

To be blunt we have met some Long term friends in TD. Especially on some of the longer, more interesting cruises. Lately as the longer cruises have been replaced on the Princess schedule and anytime was added, the people that have been assigned to our tables have been not exactly long term friend types, in some cases more the cannot even tolerate through a meal types.

Edited October 2, 2022 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, BabySarge said:

I thank you all for your input; yes, even those of you telling me to stop complaining, get over myself, accept the changes, move on, cruise a different line, or just endure and suffer like you had to.  I'm not asking or hoping that Princess change the entire dining system back to totally traditional dining.  I get that times change and it is an option that many cruising today do not like and do not want.  I'm simply asking or hoping that Princess could figure out a way to work with those of us that do want that experience.   I would just like to find an equitable solution for both sides of the "argument" on the cruise line we like.

The thing is I truly believe there is a way those who wish to have a dining experience other than traditional can have that with Princess and those of us that wish to have a traditional dining experience can have that with Princess too.  

Naively or not I do believe there is a solution and that Princess monitors these boards and reads what is posted here.  

There is a solution that works largely works within the current system. The one item that Princess could easily implement would be to put people that have selected the same dining time for the entire cruise either when the DR opens or at the equivalent late td dining time around 7 together for first night dining.  Filling tables with people with similar selections. Then they all could decide if they wanted to stay together for the entire cruise their choice.

 

It sounds like many that like TD like it because they do not have to make a decision. They are thrown together with others, somewhat randomly, and stay with that group unless it is so uncomfortable that one or more party makes a request for a different table or bails out of td entirely for anytime, something that has seemed to be a more common solution in the more recent pre covid years. Unlike the pre anytime period when there was not much choice.

Edited October 2, 2022 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

10 hours ago, caribill said:

There is no reason that DMW dining cannot also have a leisurely pace. No matter what time you reserve a table for, once you are seated nobody will force you to eat quickly.

 

Unless Princess forces you to eat in xx minutes time, then the increased passenger load still cannot be accommodated in dining rooms that are not sized for the increased ship capacities.

Actually the dining rooms are sized to handle the passenger capacity, with each table having an early and late turn, provided the seats are actually filled. Not so much if half of the seats are empty. With the current system they can get far more efficiency even with dining leisurely  For those filled when the dining room opens they might get 3 seatings at that table depending upon how many wish to dine after 7:30. Though usually those numbers are low enough that 2 turns are sufficient.

[Guest ldtr]

10 hours ago, caribill said:

There is no reason that DMW dining cannot also have a leisurely pace. No matter what time you reserve a table for, once you are seated nobody will force you to eat quickly.

 

Unless Princess forces you to eat in xx minutes time, then the increased passenger load still cannot be accommodated in dining rooms that are not sized for the increased ship capacities.

Actually the dining rooms are sized to handle the passenger capacity, with each table having an early and late turn, provided the seats are actually filled. Not so much if half of the seats are empty. With the current system they can get far more efficiency even with dining leisurely  For those filled when the dining room opens they might get 3 seatings at that table depending upon how many wish to dine after 7:30. Though usually those numbers are low enough that 2 seatings at each table are sufficient.

[cyndyga]

The only thing I wish they'd do is have 2 lines to check in one for people with reservations and the other for those who didnt make them... why have reservations if you have to stand in line with everyone ? My last cruise on Enchanted in March the lines were pretty long between 6-7:30 pm...

[Guest ldtr]

Just now, cyndyga said:

The only thing I wish they'd do is have 2 lines to check in one for people with reservations and the other for those who didnt make them... why have reservations if you have to stand in line with everyone ? My last cruise on Enchanted in March the lines were pretty long between 6-7:30 pm...

That varies by ship. On some ships and dining rooms they have two, on some others they have not.

[cyndyga]

1 minute ago, ldtr said:

That varies by ship. On some ships and dining rooms they have two, on some others they have not.

I was on Enchanted...they didn't and they should being a big ship. 

[dianef]

What is hard for me to figure if I pick 5:40 dining for a group of 8 every night that the table we will have cannot be used when the dining room opens at 5. Even people with 6 o’clock reservations those tables cannot be used between five and six. I would assume they allow at least an hour and a half for each seating.I let people book every 20 minutes.

[Guest ldtr]

33 minutes ago, dianef said:

What is hard for me to figure if I pick 5:40 dining for a group of 8 every night that the table we will have cannot be used when the dining room opens at 5. Even people with 6 o’clock reservations those tables cannot be used between five and six. I would assume they allow at least an hour and a half for each seating.I let people book every 20 minutes.

From what I have seen the odds of being able to get the same table every night at 5:40 is pretty good  6pm and later not so much, though I have seen people coming in and getting the same table at 6 when the DR opened at 5. 

[Kay S]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

Over what period was the 27 cruises, all in 2019?  The 5 I was referring to was between October 2019 and March 2020 with the last being the last cruise of Royal before shutdown.  TD was becoming increasingly empty on board, even if many had it pre cruise.   The number of empty spots in TD was pretty obvious.

I was referring to the practice of wait listing people for TD, whether for late seating from early or from Anytime to late seating TD.  Several of us old timers have said this was a common practice.  By asking "when" you indicate you do not believe it.  That's all.  I think it's admirable that you are trying to figure out ways to jimmy rig the current system to allow for a psuedo-TD, but for me, at least, it's beyond help.  As soon as the FCC is depleted, I am moving on to other lines (a transition already in progress.) 

 

BTW, my last cruise before shutdown was Dec. 2019 on the Royal, and the late TD dining room was full every night.  That was the dining room deck 6 aft.  It would take some effort to casually check every night to see how full it was, up and down those stairs...

[Kay S]

12 hours ago, caribill said:

 

AT still exists.

 

 

Bill, you are right in that AT still exists in practice.  However, the Princess website makes a point that DMW replaces both TD and AT (in those words.)  Minor quibble, yes, but I don't think Princess wants anyone to know it's possible to show up without a reservation and still be seated.

[t&atravel]

3 minutes ago, Kay S said:

but I don't think Princess wants anyone to know it's possible to show up without a reservation and still be seated.

They state you can show up without reservations in the FAQ’s on the website.  It’s not a hidden fact.

[Kay S]

2 minutes ago, t&atravel said:

They state you can show up without reservations in the FAQ’s on the website.  It’s not a hidden fact.

I guess my mistake was reading the information on the main dining page and not digging into the FAQ.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Kay S said:

I was referring to the practice of wait listing people for TD, whether for late seating from early or from Anytime to late seating TD.  Several of us old timers have said this was a common practice.  By asking "when" you indicate you do not believe it.  That's all.  I think it's admirable that you are trying to figure out ways to jimmy rig the current system to allow for a psuedo-TD, but for me, at least, it's beyond help.  As soon as the FCC is depleted, I am moving on to other lines (a transition already in progress.) 

 

BTW, my last cruise before shutdown was Dec. 2019 on the Royal, and the late TD dining room was full every night.  That was the dining room deck 6 aft.  It would take some effort to casually check every night to see how full it was, up and down those stairs...

The reason for the when is because there was a lot of changes between long ago and the last couple of years before Covid. Even before the App and the current dining system, the handwriting was on the wall that TD was falling out of favor compared to any time  Resulting was a drop off in use of dining capacity.  

 

I was referring to recent periods before Covid such as 2018 and 2019 where the changes in demand was clearly present.

 

 It is not Jimmying, it is making use of the system with available features.

 

 

[Kay S]

9 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The reason for the when is because there was a lot of changes between long ago and the last couple of years before Covid. Even before the App and the current dining system, the handwriting was on the wall that TD was falling out of favor compared to any time  Resulting was a drop off in use of dining capacity.  

 

 

 

It's nothing to me if you don't believe the old timers about TD.  Are you an employee of Princess?  You seem to be an expert on what they do and why.  I'm finished with this conversation, but you go ahead and hold forth.

[Guest ldtr]

4 minutes ago, Kay S said:

It's nothing to me if you don't believe the old timers about TD.  Are you an employee of Princess?  You seem to be an expert on what they do and why.  I'm finished with this conversation, but you go ahead and hold forth.

I have probably been sailing Princess probably as long as you have. Again what was going on several years ago has little bearing on customer choices is recent years both before and after Covid. Even before the covid shutdown the trends concerning dining practices was pretty clear. Among the mass market lines HAL was the only one lagging behind Princess in the move away from TD. 

 

Not surprising considering that Princess and HAL currently are tied with the oldest demographics among the US focused, mainstream lines (Carnival, Royal, NCL, Celebrity, Princess, Hal). Market watch cruise industry data report)

 

HAL has made progress is dropping its average age numbers by about 5 years, while Princess has gotten slightly older during the same time such that both are in the 60 year range. Celebrity runs about 2 to 3 years younger.

 

Even the premium lines such as Oceania are more about flexibility and choice as are the luxury lines. The mass market lines are and will continue to move in the same direction.

[JimmyVWine]

17 hours ago, caribill said:

Making the dining room totally AT (with DMW) does not make eating (or service) any faster than when it was TD.

The AT MDR served way more people by 7:00 than the TD MDR did. There were, by definition, no flipped tables between 5:00 and 7:00 in the TD room. In the AT MDR there were. This is irrefutable. 

[caribill]

9 hours ago, ldtr said:

It sounds like many that like TD like it because they do not have to make a decision.

 

Not our reason. We liked TD because

a) Same table meant after the first evening quick to get to (no waiting at the entrance to get assigned to a table and be led to it) ) and always available at the published time.

b) Knowing in advance the timing is right to see the show in the Princess Theater.

c) A waitstaff that knows any special dietary needs after the first evening. No need to explain the needs night after night to different servers, especially a hassle on a long cruise.

d) After the first evening, having a beverage of choice waiting at the table when we arrive.

e) Having the same dining companions voyage long means not having the same conversation every evening about where you are from, past cruises, etc.

[Guest ldtr]

47 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Not our reason. We liked TD because

a) Same table meant after the first evening quick to get to (no waiting at the entrance to get assigned to a table and be led to it) ) and always available at the published time.

b) Knowing in advance the timing is right to see the show in the Princess Theater.

c) A waitstaff that knows any special dietary needs after the first evening. No need to explain the needs night after night to different servers, especially a hassle on a long cruise.

d) After the first evening, having a beverage of choice waiting at the table when we arrive.

e) Having the same dining companions voyage long means not having the same conversation every evening about where you are from, past cruises, etc.

All of which you can do with the current system with s little effort.