Visa requirement to use an Italian port of call

[Rysyonok]

Greetings,

 

How stringent is cruise port border control in Italy (and France with Spain)? How long does it take to go through it?

 

My partner has to acquire a Schengen visa; however, the question is whether a cruise is considered to be a single journey or, as the ship is flagged in Bahamas, each port of call is a unique entry to EU, requiring individual passport / visa stamps?

 

The full itinerary is Barcelona, Spain --> Palma de Mallorca, Spain --> Marseille, Frane --> La Spezia, Italy --> Civitavecchia, Italy --> Naples, Italy --> Barcelona, Spain.

[WESTEAST]

56 minutes ago, Rysyonok said:

Greetings,

 

How stringent is cruise port border control in Italy (and France with Spain)? How long does it take to go through it?

 

My partner has to acquire a Schengen visa; however, the question is whether a cruise is considered to be a single journey or, as the ship is flagged in Bahamas, each port of call is a unique entry to EU, requiring individual passport / visa stamps?

 

The full itinerary is Barcelona, Spain --> Palma de Mallorca, Spain --> Marseille, Frane --> La Spezia, Italy --> Civitavecchia, Italy --> Naples, Italy --> Barcelona, Spain.

Perhaps this may help - generally speaking from our experiences, the cruise line will hold passports for passengers if the itinerary requires the passports to clear local customs/borders at each port of call.  Once the announcement is made that the ship has been cleared by local authorities, passengers can disembark to go ashore.  In some cases, passports are returned to passengers if this is not a requirement or, the port of call/country requires a face-to-face with passengers + their passports as was the case in St. Petersburg and believe in Israel etc. When entering countries by land that required a visa like New Zealand, we had to show our NZ visa at the time of embarking the ship in Australia heading to NZ.  We showed our visa at the airport upon arriving in Australia and Turkey if memory is right. Depending on your cruise timing, remember that the EU will be introducing a ETIA (European Travel Information and Authorization) starting November 2023; they don't call it a Visa.

[euro cruiser]

Technically, in Italy you are required to carry your passport with you at all times.  However, I was on a cruise once that intersected with a G-7 meeting and they held everyone's passports for days so we had no choice but to go ashore without it.

[steamboats]

Schengen is a "closed" area. So assuming you are flying into Barcelona directly there will be only one passport control for the whole trip and that one will be at the airport in Barcelona. So just one stamp.

 

In case you´re flying via - let´s say - Frankfurt the passport control will be in Frankfurt as all flights within the Schengen area are regarded as "domestic" flights.

 

On this itinerary you will keep your passport and the cruise line won´t keep it (unless there is a special situation like the G7 meeting). Technically and legally you are required to take your passport onshore as this is the only legal document. Driver licenses are not accepted in Europe. The only other legal document would be an EU ID card (but as you are from the US you don´t have any).

 

There are definitely no passport controls when you disembark the ship on route and not even when you finally disembark in Barcelona. The next one to check your passport will be the airline (and in Spain you also need the passport at the gate when boarding).

 

steamboats

[edinburgher]

France is slightly different in that you are required to carry photo ID issued by a government department, so not necessarily a passport.

[steamboats]

18 hours ago, edinburgher said:

France is slightly different in that you are required to carry photo ID issued by a government department, so not necessarily a passport.

 

Driving license is not a government issued photo ID in Schengen / Europe. I can use my German ID card in France but not my DL.

 

steamboats

[edinburgher]

Happy to be corrected on that.  I was thinking of ID cards not other forms of ID.

 

As Brits do not have ID cards we always carried passport photocopies, not that we have ever been required to show them at any point over the years in France, or in any other Schengen country either.

[euro cruiser]

The issue with carrying ID isn't about check points, I can't remember a time when I've been asked for ID other than at an arrival point (airport, train border crossing, ferry port).  The vast majority of tourists will never encounter a situation where it's necessary to produce identification while visiting.  However, if it does happen and you can't produce the ID, it can really ruin your day.  Especially on a cruise, when you have only a few hours in a place, why risk wasting any of them over something so easy to avoid?

 

 

[steamboats]

A passport photocopy might proceed things but isn´t a valid ID either. As euro cruiser said most tourists will never encounver a situation where they have to give a prof of identity. But if so you are totally out of luck - meaning you can end up in a police station for hours and miss your ship. 

 

steamboats

[edinburgher]

Point taken so thanks.So in future would need to risk carrying actual passport, which we really dislike ,  preferring to leave them in hotel or cabin safe.

 

Can only hope neither is lost/stolen/pickpocketed  which would leave one or both  of us with  no valid ID at all and no hope of getting one either.    In that circumstance we would probably wish we had stuck with the photocopies.

 

Would  having no ID at all  be better  worse than having a delay while the actual original document is fetched from a  hotel or ship?

Edited November 4, 2022 by edinburgher

[euro cruiser]

It's not hard to secure a passport to avoid pickpocketing.  It's a personal risk assessment, what are the odds and costs of losing it/having it stolen vs. the odds and costs of needing it and not having it.

 

I prefer not to leave anything of value in hotel room safes, which are notoriously unsecure.  It seems that everyone can get into them with relative ease except the room tenant.   Hotel staff and contractors can get in them in seconds.    That's why the hotels won't guarantee anything placed in them.  If you want real security you need to ask them to hold your things in the hotel safe, which they do guarantee (usually).

[VMax1700]

We can get a 'Passport Card' in addition to the regular passport.  It is accepted widely within EEA/EU/UK as equivalent of a passport, but not for USA/Canada etc.  However as it is credit card size it is easier to take ashore leaving the main passport in the safe.

[cruisemom42]

I suppose one decides based on risk assessment and previous experiences. Having been pickpocketed in Barcelona (I did not have my passport on me, but it was a hassle), I am reluctant to carry my passport unless it is clearly imperative to do so. 

 

VMax has a good point -- I've never really seen a good use for those passport cards, but I may get one the next time I renew my passport.

 

[steamboats]

Your UK passport card is similar to our German ID card. It´s just that we now can´t use it anymore to travel to the UK but need a passport.

 

Within EU ports I usually leave my passport onboard and have my ID card with me.

 

steamboats

[edinburgher]

It's not hard to secure a passport to avoid pickpocketing

 

We use neck wallets which hang unseen under a shirt or blouse, so anyone trying to steal from one of these would need to rummage around under our clothing and that would surely be notoced!!!

 in our many years of visiting numerous countries worldwide, we have never once been pickpocketed or suffered any other loss as we have always taken sensible  precautions, more so in places where we know pickpocketing is especially high risk.. And only one time have we not used a hotel safe, although we usually ask at reception to use the more secure "hotel safe".

 

Your UK passport card is similar to our German ID card

 

Steamboats, there is no UK passport card at the present time.

VMX1700 is referring to an IRISH passport card. EIRE is not in the UK and continues to be a member of the EU so quite different.

[edinburgher]

Having been pickpocketed in Barcelona (I did not have my passport on me, but it was a hassle)

 

Cruisemom42 You will smile when I tell you that our one time carrying everything around with us was in Barcelona.  Many years ago when on our first visit there and with our( then) late teens, we were there for a week with two hotel rooms needed, (costly)so had booked a slightly  lower class of hostel/hotel than we would usually have booked.

 

We had absolutely zero confidence in the safes, including the "hotel safe" and decided that it was too risky to leave passports, flight tickets, credit cards, cash etc anywhere in the building and that it would be safer to carry them around the city with us.  At that time, Barcelona had an even worse reputation than it has now, so my solution was to  buy 2 long baguette shaped bread sticks which were placed in a supermarket carrier bag. All of our documents, passports, cash  etc went into that same bag and as the bread sticks were poking out of the top of the bag, it looked as if I was carrying a bag of groceries.  By the end of the week the bread sticks were looking anything but fresh, but the idea worked and we lost nothing at all despite being in busy areas, using crowded public transport etc.Each time we return to Barcelona, the memory of those bread stcks still makes us smile.

Edited November 5, 2022 by edinburgher

[cruisemom42]

21 minutes ago, edinburgher said:

my solution was to  buy 2 long baguette shaped bread sticks which were placed in a supermarket carrier bag. All of our documents, passports, cash  etc went into that same bag and as the bread sticks were poking out of the top of the bag, it looked as if I was carrying a bag of groceries. 

 

That is a truly inspired solution. 😊  

 

On my first visit to Barcelona, I flattered myself that I was vigilant enough but they still managed to get my wallet out of a shoulder bag that was fully zipped AND carried under my arm. Now I take more stringent precautions but I would still worry if I had my passport with me.

[steamboats]

Sorry, @edinburgher I didn´t see that VMax1700 is from Ireland. Anyway our German ID card is not valid anymore to visiting the UK. Might be a special regulation for Ireland.

 

I travel with pickpocket safe bags. Actually I have a belly bag for the most valuable stuff - my passports and my money and my mobile phone. This has a strap which has a metal cable inside so it can´t be cut. The bucket is hidden. The zipper of the main compartment can be locked. I also have a hand bag which is pickpocket safe (but I don´t use it). I never carry any bags loose on my shoulder but across my body (but usually I do have a backpack). Never ever let your cell phone laying open on a table (like in a cafe or restaurant). Avoid crowds. If you are ever "rounded up" by others (kids or adults) start shouting (I doesn´t matter what you are shouting or in which language - it´s just to attract attention of others and that´s what the pickpockets don´t like). There are "common" tricks like asking you for the way holding a map close to your body or "accidentially" pouring something on you (mustard, ketchup, a drink) and trying to help you. In both cases  get away from them and attract the attention of others. In Italy it was pretty common that they came up with a motorcycle and grabbed a bag which was loosely over the shoulder (see above - wear a bag cross body and to the side of the houses not the street). Never ever hang onto your bag trying to safe it. You will only get hurt (and there were cases the person died). Any kind of handbag should be closed with a zipper.

 

Basically use common sense and don´t wear any valuable like jewellry or watches open.

 

I watched pickpockets in Rome. We shouted and they let the wallet go. The poor guy was happy to have his money not stolen.

 

Watch the movie "Innamorato pazzo" from 1981 with Adriano Celentano and Ornella Muti (sorry, I don´t know the English title just the German one, so the original Italian might be more helpful for searching). Adriano Celentano is playing a millionaire who is falling in love with a girl from a family of pickpockets. She thinks he´s homeless. They "adopt" him and teach him "their business".

 

steamboats

[edinburgher]

back in the day our first visit to Naples  also required caution, especially so for cameras., although I think its reputation has improved a bit since then.

 

We left our very good cameras in our hotel room in Sorrento, and instead used the cheap disposable ones our kids were carrying and which we commandered for our own use from the moment we stepped off the train in Naples.

 

steamboats . Lots of good suggestions there so thank you. There are many websites which detail some of the many pickpocketing scams in Europe, simply internet search something along the lines of "how to avoid being pickpocketed in Europe" or "pickpocketing scams in Europe".  As pickpockets will never stop dreaming up new ways to relieve tourists of their valuables, it is worth checking before travel for updates on the most recent ones.

 

And not only in Europe as we have had to be even more vigilant in countries such as Brazil and Peru.  Especially in Rio and Lima.  Carrying no valuables whatsoever, and nobody wears any jewellery at all, not even watches unless they are cheap plastic  "kiddy" type watches.  Having lunch in the upmarket area of Miraflores in Lima, we worried bout meeting our driver and guide at the designated time.  The waiter pointed to a large wall clock which he told us was there so that diners (and staff) without watches would know the time.

 

And in Rio our driver guide kept the doors locked at all times over both days and would not take his cash fee from us at the start of the day, waiting until the end of the day when he waited at the front of the hotel while we collected his cash from the safe and handed it over.  He told us he would be driving directly home with it.

 

Safe travels everyone!

Edited November 5, 2022 by edinburgher

[edinburgher]

IGNORE #19 AS I WAS PART WAY THROUGH EDITING WHEN I WAS "TIMED OUT".

 

back in the day our first visit to Naples  also required caution, especially so for cameras., although I think its reputation has improved a bit since then.

 

We left our very good cameras in our hotel room in Sorrento, and instead used the cheap disposable ones our kids were carrying and which we commandered for our own use from the moment we stepped off the train in Naples.

 

steamboats . Lots of good suggestions there so thank you. There are many websites which detail some of the many pickpocketing scams in Europe, simply internet search something along the lines of "how to avoid being pickpocketed in Europe" or "pickpocketing scams in Europe".  As pickpockets will never stop dreaming up new ways to relieve tourists of their valuables, it is worth checking before travel for updates on the most recent ones.

 

And not only in Europe as we have had to be even more vigilant in countries such as Brazil and Peru.  Especially in Rio and Lima.  Carrying no valuables whatsoever, and nobody wears any jewellery at all, not even watches unless they are cheap plastic  "kiddy" type watches.  Having lunch in the upmarket area of Miraflores in Lima, we worried bout meeting our driver and guide at the designated time.  The waiter pointed to a large wall clock which he told us was there so that diners (and staff) without watches would know the time.

 

And in Rio our driver guide kept the doors locked at all times over both days and would not take his cash fee from us at the start of the day, waiting until the end of the day when he waited at the front of the hotel while we collected his cash from the safe and handed it over.  He told us he would be driving directly home with it.

 

Earlier this year we had some work carried out and one of the tradesmen was originally from Uruguay.  He was thrilled to discover we had visited Montevideo and mentioned that Punta del Este is beloved by S.  American tourists as it is a holiday resort with a much lower crime rate than Montevideo eg, and such a feeling of safety, he told us, that men and women from neighbouring countries even dare to wear real  jewellery.

 

He told us that residents keep the resort safe as almost all income there comes from tourism.

 

Safe travels everyone!

Edited November 5, 2022 by edinburgher

[VMax1700]

9 hours ago, steamboats said:

Anyway our German ID card is not valid anymore to visiting the UK. Might be a special regulation for Ireland.

There is an agreement between Ireland and UK known as The Common Travel Area, which give reciprocal rights to travel, residency and employment.  It predates Ireland and UK joining the EU and has been continued since the UK leaving EU.  

But enough Geo-Poli discussion for a Saturday night!

[Rysyonok]

On 11/3/2022 at 9:54 AM, euro cruiser said:

The issue with carrying ID isn't about check points, I can't remember a time when I've been asked for ID other than at an arrival point (airport, train border crossing, ferry port).  The vast majority of tourists will never encounter a situation where it's necessary to produce identification while visiting.  However, if it does happen and you can't produce the ID, it can really ruin your day.  Especially on a cruise, when you have only a few hours in a place, why risk wasting any of them over something so easy to avoid?

 

 

 

So, coming back to the ship in France I imagine a cruiser has to pass through a checkpoint which is an equivalent of an arrival (departure) point. If a cruiser wasn't a part of a tour, then they to have a passport to reboard, no? 

[steamboats]

8 hours ago, Rysyonok said:

 

So, coming back to the ship in France I imagine a cruiser has to pass through a checkpoint which is an equivalent of an arrival (departure) point. If a cruiser wasn't a part of a tour, then they to have a passport to reboard, no? 

 

No, usually they only check your ship´s card but not any IDs. Check your daily program they will let you know whether a photo ID is required. But even when they write it in the program the security guys might not check any ID but just the ship´s card.

 

steamboats

[edinburgher]

So, coming back to the ship in France I imagine a cruiser has to pass through a checkpoint which is an equivalent of an arrival (departure) point. If a cruiser wasn't a part of a tour, then they to have a passport to reboard, no? 

 

Usually passport checks  only required when entering or leaving the Schengen Area not when moving around within it, but others will correct this if wrong!

Edited November 7, 2022 by edinburgher

[steamboats]

21 hours ago, edinburgher said:

Usually passport checks  only required when entering or leaving the Schengen Area not when moving around within it, but others will correct this if wrong!

 

Totally correct! And there are no different kind of checks whether you´ve been on a ship sponsored tour or out on your own. All have their ship´s card checked to enter the port area and the cruise terminal (there might be more than just one check of the ship´s card). All bags are checked with a scanner (like the ones at airport security). As I said, in some ports the ship says you need to carry a photo ID with you. But that doesn´t mean they check it when you reboard. 

 

steamboats