NCL dropping the e-muster??

[Laszlo]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Life may be uncomfortable but the old fashioned muster is unnecessary discomfort accomplishing nothing except for a safety bureaucrat to put a check mark in a box.  Makes him feel good while wasting my time.

Good grief,.... its a first world problem 

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I've already compensated the crew through the cruise fare and the DSC.

I guess that you wouldn't mind then having mandatory training and drills at your local fire department, without pay?  Maritime crews receive no compensation for the time they are involved in drills and training, and on a cruise ship, the vast majority of that time is training to save passengers, not the crew.  If you don't respect the time and effort the crew put into trying to save your life, then I hope that the crew don't reciprocate in an emergency.

 

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Perhaps it was a fire zone.  I could buy that except one should always practice the way things should be.  This 'fire zone', if that was it, was confusing for the passengers.

So, how should they have "practiced the way things should be", other than actually setting fire to the space?  And, if there was an actual fire, wouldn't that be confusing to the passengers?  Part of my training of crew, when I ran crew and passenger drills, was to "kill" crew who had failed to remember where the fire zone was, and had "passed through" the fire.  We then had to practice rescuing those crew.

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I guess that you wouldn't mind then having mandatory training and drills at your local fire department, without pay?  Maritime crews receive no compensation for the time they are involved in drills and training, and on a cruise ship, the vast majority of that time is training to save passengers, not the crew.  If you don't respect the time and effort the crew put into trying to save your life, then I hope that the crew don't reciprocate in an emergency.

 

So, how should they have "practiced the way things should be", other than actually setting fire to the space?  And, if there was an actual fire, wouldn't that be confusing to the passengers?  Part of my training of crew, when I ran crew and passenger drills, was to "kill" crew who had failed to remember where the fire zone was, and had "passed through" the fire.  We then had to practice rescuing those crew.

My point was if the passenger is supposed to go through Doorway A, then going anyother way will only confuse him. In the event of a real emergency, he will try to go the way he went in the drill regardless of a fire or not.  

 

Isn't the crew on salary?  In that case drills and training are included in that salary.

Edited November 23, 2022 by RocketMan275

[New2cruise2022]

It’s a safety thing and there is one person in charge. Once you pay and board you agree to do what that person says. 

[RocketMan275]

11 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

It’s a safety thing and there is one person in charge. Once you pay and board you agree to do what that person says. 

Fine but I have an expectation that person won't waste my time in useless endeavors.  I'm not against safety training as such.  I am against any training which is poorly implemented.  Having a hundred people stand in front of a blower while lisening to a safety briefing is a good example of poor training.

[chengkp75]

42 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Isn't the crew on salary?  In that case drills and training are included in that salary.

While the crew get a "salary", it is calculated by hours worked, both straight time and overtime.  The hours of work are fixed, and controlled by law.  However, the law also says that safety training and drills can be in excess of regulated hours, and that no compensation is given for these training hours.

[chengkp75]

26 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Fine but I have an expectation that person won't waste my time in useless endeavors.  I'm not against safety training as such.  I am against any training which is poorly implemented. 

And your qualifications in maritime safety are what?  You may feel that the drill is useless, but maybe the Captain does not.  Have you studied an entire muster drill to determine whether it is poorly implemented or not?  Sorry, everything you say comes down to your comfort.

[chengkp75]

47 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

My point was if the passenger is supposed to go through Doorway A, then going anyother way will only confuse him. In the event of a real emergency, he will try to go the way he went in the drill regardless of a fire or not.  

Yes, the passenger may try to go the way he did during the drill, but that is where the crew training aspect of the muster drill comes in, as the crew will redirect.  So, in an emergency, since the passenger would not be confused going through doorway A, then he should do that, even if it leads to a fire?  Really?

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And your qualifications in maritime safety are what?  You may feel that the drill is useless, but maybe the Captain does not.  Have you studied an entire muster drill to determine whether it is poorly implemented or not?  Sorry, everything you say comes down to your comfort.

Of course, the Captain feels the drill is useful since it's part of his checklist to leave the port.  The question is this drill useful for the passengers and I maintain having a 'real old fashioned drill' is no more useful than an EDrill.  In that case, comfort trumps.

[Elvis1209]

     Just listen to the various passengers!  People are not happy unless they're complaining!  Folks, a muster drill is part of cruising!  You have to do it!  Case closed!  

     E-muster is so much easier.  when you first get on the ship, go to your muster station, check in and get your card scanned.  They should make it so that your card is inactive ubtil you check in at your muster station.  If you tell Karen and Todd that they can't get a drink ubtil they check in, you'll see how fast they comply!  

     However, if we must do an old style muster,   so be it!

 

Elvis

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Of course, the Captain feels the drill is useful since it's part of his checklist to leave the port. 

And, perhaps the Captain has seen the benefits of the traditional muster from an actual emergency.

 

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

In that case, comfort trumps.

Hopefully, then, comfort will also trump should you experience a real emergency.

[New2cruise2022]

Whether it is an e-muster or old school doesn’t truly matter from a passenger perspective. People that are trained and responsible for everyone’s safety are in charge. Gotta let it go, so what is asked. If you choose to have a good attitude it won’t be bad. 

[WoodByWright]

8 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

Whether it is an e-muster or old school doesn’t truly matter from a passenger perspective. People that are trained and responsible for everyone’s safety are in charge. Gotta let it go, so what is asked. If you choose to have a good attitude it won’t be bad. 

well said

 

[ontheweb]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, perhaps the Captain has seen the benefits of the traditional muster from an actual emergency.

 

Hopefully, then, comfort will also trump should you experience a real emergency.

And if they find the old style muster drill uncomfortable, how do you think they will feel if they ever have to really board a lifeboat?

[shof515]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And if they find the old style muster drill uncomfortable, how do you think they will feel if they ever have to really board a lifeboat?

It’s crazy how a lifeboat has a capacity for over 300 people. It’s a very tight fit with people like on top of each other 

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, New2cruise2022 said:

Whether it is an e-muster or old school doesn’t truly matter from a passenger perspective. People that are trained and responsible for everyone’s safety are in charge. Gotta let it go, so what is asked. If you choose to have a good attitude it won’t be bad. 

 Yes it matters. 

Standing outside in the heat for 30-45 minutes, witnessing a lecture that's impossible to hear, standing in rows that make it impossible to see.  Total waste of time.

Watching a video that one can both see and hear while seated in airconditioned comfort.  Finding  your way to the correct muster station so one's card can be scanned.

Yes, it matters.

In the first case, you get little of value while wasting a half hour.

In the second case, you do get the value of training and  you do get to know where  your muster station is.

 

[phillygwm]

5 hours ago, Laszlo said:

Good grief,.... its a first world problem 

This.  As I've expressed, I prefer the e-Muster.  But it is what it is.  If I have to give 20 minutes of my vacation over to a safety briefing that, heaven forbid, might just come in handy then it's worthwhile.

[New2cruise2022]

21 minutes ago, phillygwm said:

This.  As I've expressed, I prefer the e-Muster.  But it is what it is.  If I have to give 20 minutes of my vacation over to a safety briefing that, heaven forbid, might just come in handy then it's worthwhile.

 I’ve been on hundreds of flights. There is a lot of minutia we endure with flying. Much of it is redundant and non-productive. But everything they do is symbolic of two things: 1) The passenger defer to the crews’ instructions — always; 2) The crew being in charge require passenger cooperation in the event of an emergency. 
 

If self-interest were the only concern, I would elect for e-muster because it requires less of me. However, I am not the captain of the ship, so my opinion and self-interest matter exactly zero. 

[AwesomO]

If you hate it so much, just don't cruise. Show them your dissatisfaction with your money, etc etc. Land based hotels and resorts don't have these "wastes of time" so go there. I don't get it.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, shof515 said:

It’s crazy how a lifeboat has a capacity for over 300 people. It’s a very tight fit with people like on top of each other 

And no extra perks for those in the Haven. Just like the peasants, they have no bathroom facilities.

[WoodByWright]

22 minutes ago, AwesomO said:

If you hate it so much, just don't cruise. Show them your dissatisfaction with your money, etc etc. Land based hotels and resorts don't have these "wastes of time" so go there. I don't get it.

Yet another reason why I prefer Royal. LOL but it continues they'll probably follow suit too.

[happytotravel]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As I've stated many times in the past regarding the new muster drill, what the old muster drill provides is "muscle memory" for the passengers.  Not only for where the muster station is, but also how to handle hundreds or thousands of people all moving (some reluctantly, some clueless) towards their muster station, just as it would be for a real emergency.  The mantra of "train as if your life depended on it" or "train the way you'd respond" holds true for cruise ship passengers just as much as for military and first responders.

 

Secondly, the drill allows the crew to learn how to deal with recalcitrant passengers (which would translate to frightened passengers during an emergency) en masse.  Crowd and crisis management is a skill best taught practically.  Further, the lack of a time when every passenger is in known locations removes the training of those crew who passengers never see during the muster drill, which is the searching, clearing, and marking of every cabin and public space, collapsing down from the upper decks towards the muster locations.  When could this be accomplished without the in person muster drill?

Thank you for sharing  your insight.

My husband and I were crew members with NCL in the 90's so I know exactly where you are coming from.  Unfortunately, many people do not realize the work that goes on behind the scenes when it comes to the safety portion of cruising.

 

In a real emergency these same people, who are now moaning and groaning, would be very happy to know that the crew members took their safety instructions seriously.

Keep up trying to educate us all.   Thanks, happytotravel

[Laszlo]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

And no extra perks for those in the Haven. Just like the peasants, they have no bathroom facilities.

Just like in my boat..... you hang your azz over the side Lol

[Juncti]

3 hours ago, phillygwm said:

This.  As I've expressed, I prefer the e-Muster.  But it is what it is.  If I have to give 20 minutes of my vacation over to a safety briefing that, heaven forbid, might just come in handy then it's worthwhile.

Where are there ever 20 minute musters? Maybe 20 minutes once they officially start, but the time between when the ship shuts down until you get to restart your vacation is easily an hour plus every time I've ever experienced it. 

 

Maybe if everyone went promptly it could be faster, but in my experience we're always stuck waiting on people who just refuse to go. Then when it's over the chaos of everyone leaving at the same time from tightly packed areas makes it even longer. Unless you can climb many flights of stairs to escape, you're stuck waiting until you can get a lift up to the floor you need. 

 

It is what it is, but my concern is why shift back right as flu season is running wild. Seems like cramming people into tiny packed rooms right at the start of a trip is a great way to help flu and covid spread. Maybe it won't happen, who knows, but will be interesting as more ships revert if we also see an increase in outbreaks. Time will tell on that. Maybe they should mandate masking during the procedure to help mitigate a little of the risk of cramming people in. But that will bring out a whole new batch of people pissed about something.

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, Juncti said:

Maybe they should mandate masking during the procedure to help mitigate a little of the risk of cramming people in. But that will bring out a whole new batch of people pissed about something.

Absolutely not. Why make an uncomfortable experience even worse?