Terrible attitude towards disabled by Azamara

[Peter Lanky]

I use a wheelchair and have booked a cruise with Azamara in March, which will end up being my last one due to the terrible attitude towards disabled passengers. On my particular cruise, if I use the filters for shore excursions for either being a wheelchair user or being wheelchair bound, there are no results submitted. If I read more deeply into the descriptions, they mainly say they are not wheelchair accessible without going into any detail. This suggests to me that Azamara has made little effort to differentiate between the different types of wheelchair user, and the efforts that some of us are able to make to get around potential obstacles.

When eventually getting through to customer services, which once involved a 110 minute wait to be answered, making a mockery of 'Your business is important to us', the member of staff repeatedly pointed out that the excursions are all third party organised and Azamara has no control.

 

Despite me trying to approach the discussion from different angles such as 'Is it not the responsibility of Azamara to ensure that a proportion of excursions are available to people in wheelchairs', or 'Am I supposed to remain onboard throughout and fade away', or even 'Surely Azamara buys enough excursions to have sufficient control over the content of them', I simply had the same answer thrown back at me. When I asked who I could complain about this to officially, I was told (very confidently) that I could write to Royal Caribbean, but that it would make no difference.

 

I have not cruised before, having had 3 cruises cancelled due to Covid, and would not normally buy excursions other than that I have $1,000 onboard credit, with little else meaningful to spend it on other than excursions. Please can I have some feedback from wheelchair users who have travelled with Azamara and how they coped with this couldn't care less attitude. How do I find out if an excursion is genuinely not accessible or simply that all wheelchair users are considered the same, if nobody from Azamara will make the effort to explain about the excursions in more detail?

 

Despite claiming to have nothing to to with excursions, I trust that Azamara will have inflated the price from what it pays for these excursions, thus making money from something it supposedly has no connection with.

[KevintheIrishDJ]

Just off the Onward. I noticed the handicapped door, on pool deck, did not work.

[Benthayer Gonbak]

4 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

I use a wheelchair and have booked a cruise with Azamara in March, which will end up being my last one due to the terrible attitude towards disabled passengers. On my particular cruise, if I use the filters for shore excursions for either being a wheelchair user or being wheelchair bound, there are no results submitted. If I read more deeply into the descriptions, they mainly say they are not wheelchair accessible without going into any detail. This suggests to me that Azamara has made little effort to differentiate between the different types of wheelchair user, and the efforts that some of us are able to make to get around potential obstacles.

When eventually getting through to customer services, which once involved a 110 minute wait to be answered, making a mockery of 'Your business is important to us', the member of staff repeatedly pointed out that the excursions are all third party organised and Azamara has no control.

 

Despite me trying to approach the discussion from different angles such as 'Is it not the responsibility of Azamara to ensure that a proportion of excursions are available to people in wheelchairs', or 'Am I supposed to remain onboard throughout and fade away', or even 'Surely Azamara buys enough excursions to have sufficient control over the content of them', I simply had the same answer thrown back at me. When I asked who I could complain about this to officially, I was told (very confidently) that I could write to Royal Caribbean, but that it would make no difference.

 

I have not cruised before, having had 3 cruises cancelled due to Covid, and would not normally buy excursions other than that I have $1,000 onboard credit, with little else meaningful to spend it on other than excursions. Please can I have some feedback from wheelchair users who have travelled with Azamara and how they coped with this couldn't care less attitude. How do I find out if an excursion is genuinely not accessible or simply that all wheelchair users are considered the same, if nobody from Azamara will make the effort to explain about the excursions in more detail?

 

Despite claiming to have nothing to to with excursions, I trust that Azamara will have inflated the price from what it pays for these excursions, thus making money from something it supposedly has no connection with.

 

Depending upon where you are going Azamara doesn’t always have good information about even how many steps there are and whether they are all together or separate.  I just returned from South Africa and most all the tours said not recommended for wheelchair users because of steepness, water, or uneven terrain!  They were clearly cut and paste!   I did several with a folding/collapsible electric wheelchair, but I still had to be able to climb the bus stairs.  Some buses could kneel but still had really steep stairs.  The safari trucks were different too.  Some were similar to the back stairs of a bus while others were like stepping straight onto a chair height!  I’d recommend a folding step for those.  They had one at entrance but not for lunch.  And yes, my partner could have hiked me up that far if it had been absolutely needed.  
 

i did Ephesus with a walker but would not believe anyone could do it in anything short of tank treads! 
 

The gangway can become steps thus they can’t always be rolled over.  I walked them, while the crew carried my chair.  They really try to help.

 

please note there are several places that are hard if not impossible to get to, without help.  The exits to the pool have ramps but they are steep and the doors are heavy.  However, when I was on my own occasionally, many were willing to hold doors or help in any way they can.  The dining venues can handle not wanting to transfer to their chairs! 
 

please tell me where you are going as there really were others in wheelchairs on the ships I’ve been on.  For Japan, I could not find a tour that the operator said they could handle.  I really wanted to go back to Kyoto.  For one case I pushed the issue they sent me a picture of the gravel that I couldn’t avoid.  
 

as for filters I’d avoid them and read the descriptions. After a while you can tell if anyone has been there.  I did do one unknown tour that didn’t show whether there were a lot of steps, but was warned where the bus stopped wasn’t known.  There were too many stairs and several of us stayed on the bus.  But I did that one knowing the risk.  Most of the guides worried about curb cuts whic aren’t always available, which I expect.  You will actually see them before they do, iftheyexist. 
 

i recommend starting  a specific thread for where you are going to.  That way people who've even just push chairs can tell you what they saw as difficult.  I’ll post an email address if I’ve been where you are looking to go.  But there really are places that aren’t easy to navigate.  My new wheelchair will do grass if not too bumpy, but it still won’t do very deep gravel especially sloped.  Sage I think tours has a lot written about many ports in Europe and Greece.  He is a manual chair user and shows pictures!  Also there are bloggers that are permanent chair users that have documented places like Moscow which can be near impossible!  I’m pretty sure Moscow isn’t on your current list though.  
 

i just did table mountain in Cape Town South Africa and it takes some power and strength to do some of the patches as they are steep and slanted to the side.  They have however tried to make it as accessible as possible! 
 

hth

[uktog]

I think unfortunately once you got through on the call (yes i agree the wait time is unacceptable) you got a very badly trained agent.  Writing to Royal Caribbean would achieve nothing because Azamara is no longer part of the RC group although they are still sharing some processing facilities.  Any correspondence you make should have been directed to Azamara.

 

I have been on many excursions where folding wheelchairs have been accommodated no problem.  Motorised chairs are different because of their weight to be lifted into a coach.  There is unfortunately no facilities for motorised chairs on excursions - typically overseas buses are not adapted for them.

 

Where are you travelling to?  Those who have been there before will be able to guide you on what they have seen happening.  And on board, the crew do everything they can and more to help guests in wheelchairs, especially at the gangways which can, due to their slopes be very tricky and potentially a little dangerous

[Benthayer Gonbak]

7 minutes ago, KevintheIrishDJ said:

Just off the Onward. I noticed the handicapped door, on pool deck, did not work.

They don’t always work on the cabins either.  On the journey there aren’t any handicap doors that I found to the pool!  Did you notice how steep the ramps were? 
 

on the journey the asst cruise director commented about one of the thresholds that she’d seen people have trouble with.  It’s more squared, by the cabaret ladies restroom and since it’s water tight I’m not sure can easily be minimized. 
 

 

 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

3 minutes ago, uktog said:

I think unfortunately once you got through on the call (yes i agree the wait time is unacceptable) you got a very badly trained agent.  Writing to Royal Caribbean would achieve nothing because Azamara is no longer part of the RC group although they are still sharing some processing facilities.  Any correspondence you make should have been directed to Azamara.

 

I have been on many excursions where folding wheelchairs have been accommodated no problem.  Motorised chairs are different because of their weight to be lifted into a coach.  There is unfortunately no facilities for motorised chairs on excursions - typically overseas buses are not adapted for them.

 

Where are you travelling to?  Those who have been there before will be able to guide you on what they have seen happening.  And on board, the crew do everything they can and more to help guests in wheelchairs, especially at the gangways which can, due to their slopes be very tricky and potentially a little dangerous

Dont forget how help most passengers are too.  Certainly not their job but Azamara attracts passengers that are willing to hold elevator doors etc. without even asking! 
 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

It’s probably worth mentioning that there is a special needs group that can sometimes help although I was disappointed with their Japan answers that looked like poorly described questions impeded by translations that most likely were automated.  

[Mackdogmolly]

I am not in a wheelchair, but on one of my Azamara cruises (I think it was Alaska) there was a passenger who was a quadriplegic, traveling with his wife, who had a portable hoyer lift to get him in and out of his wheelchair. I recall seeing them on a few excursions, where buses had the capability to raise and lower the wheelchair. And obviously, the excursions must have been wheelchair friendly. So it certainly can be done depending on where you are going.

[Peter Lanky]

I'll expand a little. My cruise is '7-Night Canary Islands Intensive Voyage' on 11th March. A few weeks ago we were told that one of the destinations was being changed, and the excursions were only posted yesterday. I am an active wheelchair user. My chair is a manual chair, but I'm expecting delivery of a pair or powered wheels a few days before on 28th Feb, so I may have them or maybe not. From a transportation point of view this makes it almost identical in size, foldability and flexibility as if it was manual, but with extra weight.

 

I can stand and take a few steps if there is something solid to hang on to as (due to a spinal injury) my balance and coordination are severely hampered. I take the view that if a manoeuvre is possible, then I will attempt it, and can transfer easily to dining chairs if they are comfortable enough. I can climb onto coaches as there are always suitable bars and handles around, and it's obviously a lot easier if the tour guide keeps the front seat clear as happened on a recent tour in South Africa, though there were just one or two of the fellow passengers who believed that this was a privilege too far. I successfully managed to negotiate the top of table mountain, though there were places were only steps and no ramps.

 

I have had very little assistance from the special needs department so far (i.e. no correspondence since May).

[uktog]

If you do book excursions, go to the shore excursion desk on deck 5 on boarding and make sure they note that you are to have the front seat.  You will find when you board each bus, the seat will be held for you - usually the sign says "reserved for cabin XXXX" or alternatively there is just a reserved for disabled guests.  Every trip I have been on that has been the way and I have never seen able bodied guests not respect the reservations

[Benthayer Gonbak]

3 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

I'll expand a little. My cruise is '7-Night Canary Islands Intensive Voyage' on 11th March. A few weeks ago we were told that one of the destinations was being changed, and the excursions were only posted yesterday. I am an active wheelchair user. My chair is a manual chair, but I'm expecting delivery of a pair or powered wheels a few days before on 28th Feb, so I may have them or maybe not. From a transportation point of view this makes it almost identical in size, foldability and flexibility as if it was manual, but with extra weight.

 

I can stand and take a few steps if there is something solid to hang on to as (due to a spinal injury) my balance and coordination are severely hampered. I take the view that if a manoeuvre is possible, then I will attempt it, and can transfer easily to dining chairs if they are comfortable enough. I can climb onto coaches as there are always suitable bars and handles around, and it's obviously a lot easier if the tour guide keeps the front seat clear as happened on a recent tour in South Africa, though there were just one or two of the fellow passengers who believed that this was a privilege too far. I successfully managed to negotiate the top of table mountain, though there were places were only steps and no ramps.

 

I have had very little assistance from the special needs department so far (i.e. no correspondence since May).

I've had mixed results from special needs.  I’ve wondered at times whether they understood all wheelchair users don’t need lifts!  Their forms do ask about combined weight of chair and occupant, I assume because they do carry people down gangways.  I’ve only seen that once for a power scooter but it wasn’t Azamara.  It was a huge scooter, a steep climb with 4-6 of the crew carrying the passenger up the long gangway as it was a bigger ship as I recall. 

 

i did the Canary Islands with a walker, but we recently returned, I’ve just forgotten which ports we ended up at too!  I didn’t do Gran Canaria though I’ve forgotten why, probably exhaustion. 
 

i remember the bus ride up to the mountains where there was a restaurant and store.  That area was okay for a walker and I’d certainly not fear it in a wheelchair.  I’ll have to do more research to tell where I really was!  I don’t recall cobblestones which my chair does fine but I wouldn’t normally recommend it for narrow manual wheelchairs.  My trick is to ask whether they would ride a bicycle down the road.  That gives me an idea of the sides of the gaps between the stones!  Also note that one of the cities we skipped had a hop on hop off yellow bus.  Most of those can handle wheelchairs.  
 

I’m impressed you did Table mountain although I imagined that you were indeed a long term manual chair operator than can probably hop some curbs!  And yes I found steps at many outlooks, but not all!  
 

For what it is worth I met an Aussie on our first leg of our last cruise.  He had an attachment for his manual chair that made it look more like a tricycle as it had handles like a motorcycle.  He had told me about it attaching and then pulling him rather than him doing all the work.  I only saw it once on the pier.  
 

UKtog is right, the onboard shore people have access to more info about whether the 30 steps listed are together or in groups of say 4 steps!  They have however tried to tell me I can do things I had no trouble with.  After seeing me maneuver and that my partner could carry my walker at the time they eased up on what they thought I couldn’t do.  Then we got to a ramp up to the colosseum  in Ephesus and I refused to go up even though there were no steps.  The problem was with the directions the boards had been laid and that they were wet!  I think with the right shoes you could have slid down the ramp most of the way, if you were just trying a little! 
 

my email is Redhatbear at gmail dot com   I’m not sure how much I can help but I can answer more specific concerns. Also, where the small barriers are.   I was surprised that one of the gangways even when flat had ridges like treads on them.  Also, returning from Azamazing they put out the lower gangway too. Azamazing always provides for those with wheelchairs, walking limitations including canes etc.  I’ve just not seen how anyone confined to a chair manages.  And yes I’ve met several that are pretty confined to their chairs.  
 

Also please note that rarely are the elevators even occupied although this last half full adventure did have some people on occasion.  The elevators take little time to call and many passengers are walking the stairs because of the short distances.  

[excitedofharpenden]

I think it's worth mentioning here and something I've thought about before. The Azamara ships being over 20 years old never appear to me to be very friendly towards those physical limitations. There are no automatic doors in the public areas and many of the doors there are wood and heavy and the thresholds not very friendly. Times have changed. They would have to be more compliant now. 

 

Phil 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

30 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I think it's worth mentioning here and something I've thought about before. The Azamara ships being over 20 years old never appear to me to be very friendly towards those physical limitations. There are no automatic doors in the public areas and many of the doors there are wood and heavy and the thresholds not very friendly. Times have changed. They would have to be more compliant now. 

 

Phil 

i used to get my scooter caught, bottomed out, on the 5 deck inside to outside doors!  That was a pain when that was how we were disembarking ata port! 
 

for what it is worth, even some of the newer ships don’t have auto door openers everywhere.  And NCL has a hight threshold ridge on the handicapped restroom that does have an opener! 
 

But your point is well taken.  Azamara has added the auto openers to the handicapped rooms.  They still also have the door ones so the door doesn’t have to stay flung open like the Equinox!  
 

To me the new arrangement in the living room was thoughtless. There is a way down but the chairs are so close you can’t get by if anyone is sitting there.  before it became the living room I thought I remembered  better access to the step down area.  While I can get my chair down that step I’ve never been allowed to try as the crew is always right there!  It sometimes takes more effort to get help lifting the wheelchair back up, but I could do it if necessary.

 

Right now I have a torn tendon in my shoulder and those heavy doors to the outside seem to have doubled in weight!  
 

There used to be a handicapped restroom next to the deck 4 mid elevators - near shore excursions!  The other one was on deck 9 forward which I haven’t looked for recently to know if it’s still there! Smoking was just on the other side of the door which made it almost unusable.  But smoking has now moved to the other side. 
 

The most annoying, I find is that there are events in the Cabaret where coffee and pastries are set out at the bar, with no service and no way to get there yourself!  When the bar is truly open there’s no need to be up there!  

[Baynanno1]

You may find the Concierge able to arrange a suitable private tour or tours for you.

They will not come cheap, but will certainly suit your needs.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Baynanno1

[Peter Lanky]

12 hours ago, Benthayer Gonbak said:

For what it is worth I met an Aussie on our first leg of our last cruise.  He had an attachment for his manual chair that made it look more like a tricycle as it had handles like a motorcycle.  He had told me about it attaching and then pulling him rather than him doing all the work.  I only saw it once on the pier.  

I also have one of those attachments which is ideal for holidays at home, but the battery is outside the parameters for being carried in the aircraft. It has the additional benefit of attracting attention, and many a conversation with a complete stranger has been started as a result. It will actually pull me along at 18mph if I so desire, so useful for longer trips on my own when there are no other people about or I find a good cycle lane. Amazingly despite it being so useful, I have only seen one other in the 3 years since I acquired it.

[Benthayer Gonbak]

26 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

I also have one of those attachments which is ideal for holidays at home, but the battery is outside the parameters for being carried in the aircraft. It has the additional benefit of attracting attention, and many a conversation with a complete stranger has been started as a result. It will actually pull me along at 18mph if I so desire, so useful for longer trips on my own when there are no other people about or I find a good cycle lane. Amazingly despite it being so useful, I have only seen one other in the 3 years since I acquired it.

I’m impressed that another one even exists!  I hear you about the parameters for batteries though.  We are having enough trouble with EWR in the US not knowing the rules that I can only imagine what they would do for your batteries! 
 

As for being stopped, my scooter used to cause all sorts of conversations in stores and on cruises!  
 

i can only go 6mph, and then, like you, I need a fairly clear pathway!  

[Peter Lanky]

13 minutes ago, Benthayer Gonbak said:

I’m impressed that another one even exists!  I hear you about the parameters for batteries though.  We are having enough trouble with EWR in the US not knowing the rules that I can only imagine what they would do for your batteries! 
 

As for being stopped, my scooter used to cause all sorts of conversations in stores and on cruises!  
 

i can only go 6mph, and then, like you, I need a fairly clear pathway!