Dogs on the ship

[longterm]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:46 PM, florafun said:

I just saw 2 of the dogs in the last hour. These are the smallest dogs, the other two are a bit larger.

Emotional support or regular service dogs.....I have no idea.

 

 

Emotional support my a**.

 

This is really irritating. 

Some people are so inconsiderate; anyone who owns a dog or a cat (we have both) knows that they almost always plant themselves on the bed. That we allow it at home is one thing--but we wouldn't think of bringing one of our pets to someone's home without permission, much less a cruise ship.

I wrote a letter to Viking; it'll be a pleasant surprise if I get a response.

[longterm]

Put all the pax with dogs in an area with those who insist on smoking on their balconies. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by longterm

[Hobson1754]

1 hour ago, Sunflower & The Scientist said:

For anyone interested....here is the email I have sent to tellus. 

 

 

To: Viking Cruise Line

 

As a previous owner of a service dog, I would like to express my concerns over the recent problems occurring on Viking cruises with respect to dogs that are not essential service dogs.

 

My daughter who has now passed away relied on a service dog for her safety. I was the dog’s handler, as she was unable to physically care for the dog that served her. I am requesting you consider the following facts regarding service dogs and dogs that are people’s pets that are being brought on board falsely  claiming to be assistance-type dogs.

 

Individuals who have service dogs receive extensive training and are required to demonstrate proper care and handling of the service dog. We are responsible for handling the dogs in accordance with protocols given to us by trained professionals.

 

Service dogs are working dogs. There are increasing issues with non-service dogs interfering with service dogs carrying out their duties. I have personally experienced “emotional support” dogs barking and lunging at my service dog. In the US, some states are putting laws in place to protect service dogs.

 

Here are a few facts about service dogs that distinguish them from pets being used as “emotional support” dogs.

 

*Service dogs would never be left unattended in a room. They remain with the person they serve.

 

*Service dogs are not allowed to eat table food, scraps off the floor, or eat under or at the table where humans are eating.

 

*Service dogs are not allowed to approach people. Their attention is given solely to the one they are serving.

 

*Service dogs do not bark or disturb others.

 

*Service dogs are never allowed to sit on furniture.

 

There are a number of concerns for dogs who are on board a cruise ship, who are not legitimate essential service dogs. Although service dogs could encounter some of these same issues, owners of service dogs are far more aware of these issues and have training in what to do in various circumstances.

 

*If the dog was not allowed to leave the ship in the port, they would have to remain alone in their room if their owner left the ship. This could be cause for concern.

 

*Leaving the ship on the gangway or getting on to a tender boat is not something individuals with service dogs should do without special training. There are surfaces and gaps in surfaces intended for humans that could pose a danger to a dog.

 

*What would happen to a dog if its owner was removed from the ship to seek medical treatment? The dog would not be allowed in a medical setting. Does Viking then assume responsibility for the animal?

 

*In the event of evacuation from the ship, what would happen to the animal? Would the owner be willing to leave their dog on board while they were evacuated, or would the animal occupy a space that should be reserved for human life?

 

*Dogs, like humans, suffer from motion sickness. Humans can take medication to help with motion sickness. A dog would not have that option, and if it did, it would be incapacitated and rendered helpless. Animals, unlike humans, vomit where they are rather than using proper means of disposing of vomit.

 

*Service dogs typically carry proof of vaccinations, although not legally necessary in some places. It would be possible for a dog to board a ship and pass illness in the common feces and urine relief area. Dogs, unlike humans, when ill, are not able to make it to a relief area and relieve themselves where they are. There have been issues noted on Viking with dogs stepping in their feces and tracking it across the deck. It is not uncommon for a dog to feel ill and have diarrhea, especially when traveling. How does Viking deal with properly cleaning this in staterooms and common areas when this happens?  Gastroenteritis is a common and highly contagious illness that spreads quickly from saliva, vomit, and feces, in dogs.  

 

*Viking provides medical care for humans who are ill or injured. What would happen in the event a dog is injured or becomes ill?

 

There is no question that an individual who requires a service dog for safety reasons, such as those with visual impairments, should be allowed to bring their dog on a cruise. That is not the question. As I have stated, service dog owners have specialized training to deal with issues that arise.

 

Viking has created an atmosphere on their ships that is different from other cruise ships. Not having casinos and children onboard provides an atmosphere that is attractive to a large population. Now we are dealing with ill-behaved pets that individuals are allowed to bring onboard.

 

 I respectfully ask Viking to reconsider allowing dogs, other than legitimate essential service dogs required for an individual’s safety, to be onboard Viking ships.

 

 

Excellently worded letter which states the case very clearly 👏

[Viking Cruises]

Dear Cruise Critic community,

 

We have heard your feedback regarding our policies for service animals. Thank you for the opportunity to review the situation and provide some clarity below.

 

What is Viking's process for vetting service animals? 
In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and similar laws in destinations where we operate, Viking allows service animals. Guests who request a service animal must provide appropriate documentation to support the request.

 

Does Viking allow emotional support animals or pets? 
Requests for pets or emotional support animals are denied, as per our policy. All service animals are reviewed according to ADA or applicable regulations, and only service animals that have the appropriate documentation for admittance into the countries on an itinerary are permitted on board our ships.

 

What has Viking done to address concerns on board the Viking Star? 
We are aware of isolated instances of improper behavior from service animals in public areas on board our ships. We have updated our policies accordingly to ensure such incidents do not happen in the future.

 

While up-to-date information can be found in the FAQ on our website we welcome further questions about individual bookings at TellUs@viking.com.

 

Kindly,
Viking
 

[Peregrina651]

3 minutes ago, Viking Cruises said:

We are aware of isolated instances of improper behavior from service animals in public areas

 

Thank you for your response, however, please let us clarify that it is NOT qualified service animals that we are objecting to but pets and ESA that have somehow slipped through the vetting process.

 

 

 

[biggerbearmom]

5 hours ago, Iloveketo said:

Curious… is this being discussed on any other Viking sites?

Also, does anyone think that the emotional support dogs should be allowed?

Just curious… 

 

I posted yesterday about this discussion on a Viking FB group and it generated quite a few responses and then was removed.

[LindaS272]

No indication that the dogs observed currently are ESAs when those onboard are indicating they clearly are not service dogs.

 

I can’t say that I’m reassured by Viking’s response. I just hope we don’t encounter ESAs on our next cruises. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by LindaS272

[Level six]

19 minutes ago, Viking Cruises said:

What is Viking's process for vetting service animals? 
In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and similar laws in destinations where we operate, Viking allows service animals. Guests who request a service animal must provide appropriate documentation to support the request.

They are not telling you  the truth Viking.  These dogs are NOT service dogs and have not been trained to be.  You need to get proper and accurate documentation that is not from the internet and made up. 

[Iloveketo]

15 minutes ago, biggerbearmom said:

I posted yesterday about this discussion on a Viking FB group and it generated quite a few responses and then was removed.

Interesting that it was removed… at least Cruise Critics let the discussion continue.  

Edited March 31, 2023 by Iloveketo

[Hobson1754]

Am I missing something here?  The dogs I have seen via the photographs from Viking Star bear no resemblance to ‘Service Dogs’ I am used to seeing in the UK. Are service dogs in the US often small toy dogs e.g. Pekingese?

[biggerbearmom]

Just now, Iloveketo said:

Interesting that it was removed… 

I thought so too, and I did not put the name of CC in my post. I was just trying to direct more traffic to this thread so that more Viking travelers would reach out to Viking about this issue. As long as this remains an issue with Viking, I will not cruise from a US home port.

[Peregrina651]

7 minutes ago, biggerbearmom said:

I posted yesterday about this discussion on a Viking FB group and it generated quite a few responses and then was removed.

 

Those are privately run groups and they have reserved the right to approve all topics and posts, in the same way that conversation here on CC is monitored.

 

[Peregrina651]

1 minute ago, Hobson1754 said:

Am I missing something here?  The dogs I have seen via the photographs from Viking Star bear no resemblance to ‘Service Dogs’ I am used to seeing in the UK. Are service dogs in the US often small toy dogs e.g. Pekingese?

 

Depending on the task, the animal could be a toy dog. Early on in this discussion, there was mention of two different tasks that could easily be done by small dogs -- one was seizure detection and the other was to detect diabetic coma.

 

 

[Hobson1754]

1 minute ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

Depending on the task, the animal could be a toy dog. Early on in this discussion, there was mention of two different tasks that could easily be done by small dogs -- one was seizure detection and the other was to detect diabetic coma.

 

 

Ok thanks for that. 

[CurlerRob]

The new Viking FAQ is quite different from the old one (changed from only yesterday) - I find it encouraging to see increased specificity and the removal of the reference to "therapy dogs", as well as specific exclusion of ESAs. 🍺🥌

 

New FAQ: Are service animals allowed on board?
In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and similar laws in destinations where we operate, Viking allows service animals. Guests who request a service animal must provide appropriate documentation to support the request. Requests for pets or emotional support animals are denied, as per our policy. All service animals are reviewed according to ADA or applicable regulations, and only service animals that have the appropriate documentation for admittance into the countries on an itinerary are permitted on board our ships. We are aware of isolated instances of improper behavior from service animals in public areas on board our ships. We have updated our policies accordingly to ensure such incidents do not happen in the future.

 

Old FAQ: Are pets allowed on board?
No pets or other animals are allowed on board the ship, other than service
animals and certified therapy dogs as Viking may choose to permit at its
sole discretion. Guests who require the aid of a service animal or certified
therapy dog must advise Viking at the time of booking, and complete and
submit the Service Animal Request Form to Viking before final payment is
due. Failure to do so may result in a denial of boarding.

[biggerbearmom]

43 minutes ago, Viking Cruises said:

Dear Cruise Critic community,

 

We have heard your feedback regarding our policies for service animals. Thank you for the opportunity to review the situation and provide some clarity below.

 

What is Viking's process for vetting service animals? 
In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and similar laws in destinations where we operate, Viking allows service animals. Guests who request a service animal must provide appropriate documentation to support the request.

 

Does Viking allow emotional support animals or pets? 
Requests for pets or emotional support animals are denied, as per our policy. All service animals are reviewed according to ADA or applicable regulations, and only service animals that have the appropriate documentation for admittance into the countries on an itinerary are permitted on board our ships.

 

What has Viking done to address concerns on board the Viking Star? 
We are aware of isolated instances of improper behavior from service animals in public areas on board our ships. We have updated our policies accordingly to ensure such incidents do not happen in the future.

 

While up-to-date information can be found in the FAQ on our website we welcome further questions about individual bookings at TellUs@viking.com.

 

Kindly,
Viking
 

@Viking Cruises, If you truly believe that the dog in this picture is a service animal then I would like to suggest that there’s a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[KBs mum]

2 minutes ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

Depending on the task, the animal could be a toy dog. Early on in this discussion, there was mention of two different tasks that could easily be done by small dogs -- one was seizure detection and the other was to detect diabetic coma.

 

 

Small service dogs tend to be working or gundogbreeds, not toy. They need the intelligence, temperament and work ability, hence why breeds such as spaniels and labradors are often chosen. Toy breeds might be OK, but it's rare to see one as a service animal, two out of four on a ship seems an improbably high percentage

[Hobson1754]

5 minutes ago, CurlerRob said:

We are aware of isolated instances of improper behavior from service animals in public areas on board our ships. We have updated our policies accordingly to ensure such incidents do not happen in the future.

Yes - How are they going to ensure that😏

[LindaS272]

6 minutes ago, biggerbearmom said:

@Viking Cruises, If you truly believe that the dog in this picture is a service animal then I would like to suggest that there’s a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

 

Maybe this owner has seizures and the dog is there for detection, but dogs like this should be clearly indicated to the rest of the pax.

 

[CurlerRob]

2 minutes ago, Hobson1754 said:

Yes - How are they going to ensure that😏

Well, they seem to have made a decent start with the new policy:

 

ONLY service dogs as defined by the ADA or applicable legislation.

NO "therapy dogs" - (which is how I suspect the dogs in the pics got onboard under the old policy).

NO emotional support animals - specific to the new policy.

 

Clearly, scrutiny of service dog applications will be required going forward and may need to be beefed up to ensure compliance - perhaps a good idea to wait and see if Viking does so?

 

As to how to catch pax who fake/forge/manipulate service dog credentials, that's a hard one - as it is for other areas where people lie (anyone remember self-monitored Covid tests?).

 

I'm not all bent out of shape by what I think was a poor choice of words (service animals) when they were referring to the current situation and pics. I'm actually very impressed with the speed of Viking's response and their willingness to put their answer out in the same public forum that raised the question. 🍺🥌

[Jim Avery]

Viking sounded like pure corporate speak to me.  Let's see,  Seems they made 4 liars happy and infuriated dozens, maybe hundreds, of past. present. and future paying passengers.....  Glad I don't own Viking stock. And yes, I know it's privately owned.

[Hobson1754]

This rewritten/reworded policy could be a logistical nightmare for Viking in respect of passengers who have already paid their account balance and are expecting to take their ESA dogs with them - especially if they’re due to travel in the near future.

[CurlerRob]

9 minutes ago, Hobson1754 said:

This rewritten/reworded policy could be a logistical nightmare for Viking in respect of passengers who have already paid their account balance and are expecting to take their ESA dogs with them - especially if they’re due to travel in the near future.

 

I'm not sure I'd classify it as a nightmare, but yup, there will be upset pax for the reason you cite. That happens with any noticeable policy change. There are only 3 options: ignore those affected by the change; let them cancel without penalty; or delay implementation of the change until a future date (likely not acceptable to the many folks who have sparked the policy change).

 

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. My personal bet is that the number of pax who would bring an ESA is so small that Viking can choose either of the first two options. 🍺🥌

[Traveler1977]

As both a past guest on Viking and a future guest of the Viking Star, I find this very troubling. I am allergic to animals and would not want to occupy a room where a dog stayed during the prior cruise. I don’t want to spend the first few days of my cruise sneezing. What accommodations would be made in a situation like this.  I do understand the need to allow true service animals, but not what appears to be nothing more than pets. I hope Viking takes a serious look at this evolving problem. 

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, CurlerRob said:

The new Viking FAQ is quite different from the old one (changed from only yesterday) - I find it encouraging to see increased specificity and the removal of the reference to "therapy dogs", as well as specific exclusion of ESAs. 🍺🥌

 

New FAQ: Are service animals allowed on board?
In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and similar laws in destinations where we operate, Viking allows service animals. Guests who request a service animal must provide appropriate documentation to support the request. Requests for pets or emotional support animals are denied, as per our policy. All service animals are reviewed according to ADA or applicable regulations, and only service animals that have the appropriate documentation for admittance into the countries on an itinerary are permitted on board our ships. We are aware of isolated instances of improper behavior from service animals in public areas on board our ships. We have updated our policies accordingly to ensure such incidents do not happen in the future.

 

 

It is a disservice  to true  service dogs to call the  "pets" onboard  a Service  animals

Clearly those currently onboard  are no resemblance to a true service animal

 

I call BS   Viking