Received Balcony upgrade with new room assignment. 5 hours later NCL reneged on the upgrade. Has this happened to anyone?

[luv2kroooz]

1 hour ago, minabruuke said:

I don't see how your comparisons fit in this scenario as they leave out a third party. 

 

If you hired a caterer and that caterer that you hired subbed out that order to another caterer and that other caterer (that you didn't hire) failed to show up, who would you hold responsible? Personally, I'd be frustrated with both caterers but ultimately I'd hold the company that I actually hired responsible because I can't know what conversations took place between the two companies, I can only know for certain what took place between the company I hired and myself.

 

The OP is a customer of NCL, not the customer of whatever company NCL might decide to hire to take on/manage some of NCL's tasks/programs.

This 100%. The comparisons in the other post didn't make any sense to me either. It omitted the third party and then concluded that the point is moot anyway. Huh?

Edited June 14, 2023 by luv2kroooz

[Pghcrews]

I'm a commercial contract attorney.  Just as an FYI, a company you contract with is responsible for the errors, omissions, malfeasance, etc. of its own subcontractors. If the original contractor comes out of pocket for its subcontractor's mistakes, the original contractor has a cause of action against the subcontractor.  Contract law 101, just sayin'.

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, Pghcrews said:

I'm a commercial contract attorney.  Just as an FYI, a company you contract with is responsible for the errors, omissions, malfeasance, etc. of its own subcontractors. If the original contractor comes out of pocket for its subcontractor's mistakes, the original contractor has a cause of action against the subcontractor.  Contract law 101, just sayin'.

As an attorney, do you believe there's a difference between a third party contractor and a sub? I think there is. On MSC, for example, they have an independent company called Venchi that sells chocolate products on their ships, including milk shakes and chocolate martinis. However, MSC's drinks package isn't valid at Venchi for those things, because it's a separate vendor that happens to sell products onboard MSC's vessels. I believe the company NCL contracts with for the upgrade bidding process is completely separate and may in fact handle these requests for multiple cruise lines, not just NCL.

[Pghcrews]

I believe the example you gave of the lease out of space to an independent company is a slightly different situation.  In those situations one would need to prove, for example, that NCL knew or should have known that the lessee could pose a hazard to cruise passengers.  If one could successfully prove that NCL knew or should have known, then NCL could be found liable for negligence in leasing the space to a company that could hurt its customers. For example, the lessee had a well documented history of food poisoning guests.  Of course the lessee would also be directly liable.

[Pghcrews]

In the case of the agent who is hired by NCL to administer a specific program for NCL, a plaintiff need not prove negligence.  NCL can be held liable directly for its agents.  This is similar to all the independent contractors who are PCCs that are hired by NCL.  Technically those individuals are not employees and are hence not technically NCL.  Nevertheless, as agents on NCL, NCL is directly liable for their mistakes.

[Pghcrews]

It's the difference between charging the customer a fee (a lesser vendor, like the company that runs the spa) and a company that is paid by NCL to provide a service for its customers as an agent of NCL.

[DCGuy64]

13 minutes ago, Pghcrews said:

It's the difference between charging the customer a fee (a lesser vendor, like the company that runs the spa) and a company that is paid by NCL to provide a service for its customers as an agent of NCL.

I think I understand your position, and I'm not an attorney, so I defer to your wisdom. I see the upgrade site (which is definitely independent, as I've used it before myself and the URL is distinct from NCL's) as being similar to the travel insurance NCL offers through AON. It's on the NCL website but is a completely separate company. Anyway, thanks very much for your input.

[UKstages]

2 hours ago, Pghcrews said:

This is similar to all the independent contractors who are PCCs that are hired by NCL.  Technically those individuals are not employees and are hence not technically NCL.

 

your fundamental point is well taken, but you've given a bad example because NCL cruise consultants are in fact NCL employees, unless something has changed in the past six months or so. 

 

the people who answer the phone and book your cruise at NCL and CAS are NCL salaried employees. while many of them now work out of their homes, they are "based" out of the phoenix and miami offices. they are not independent contractors. 

 

 

[scooter6139]

The upgrade company is the same one used throughout the travel industry.  Princess also uses it.  So do many airlines.

 

In fact, there are a ton of contract employees on each ship.  The Casino is run by a separate contractor, and so is the Spa.  And all the Dance shows and art folks.

[complawyer]

hey pgh. poster got exactly what he originally bargained for. ncl returned the extra money he placed on his upgrade bid, there were absolutely no errors, omissions or malfeasance in any way on the part of ncl and/or its contractors, subcontractors, agents, sub agents, employees or anyone else connected to, hired by or in any way affiliated with t he cruise line.

contracts 101 common sense 102 and continuing. besides which, you made y our post sound like a law school exam. lighten up!!

[Panhandle Couple]

Ever had you airline 12th row window seat changed to row 32 middle seat? 

And you didn't find out until airport check in?

And you received zero compensation or sympathy from the airline?

And your only alternative to get a similar seat again was to wait until the 10AM flight the next day?

 

[Raises hand}

[UKstages]

19 minutes ago, scooter6139 said:

The Casino is run by a separate contractor, and so is the Spa.  And all the Dance shows and art folks.

 

the casino is run in-house... CAS is an NCL operation, both the administration and the actual day to day operations. the casino managers, dealers, croupiers, slot attendants, technicians, servers and hosts are all NCL employees.

 

not sure what you mean by dance shows, but do you mean entertainment like "blazing boots?" and by extension, "six," "elements," "choir of man," "jersey boys," "summer," etc? NCL runs its own entertainment division out of miami and those mainstage shows are produced by NCL and the talent is hired by NCL. shows are rehearsed in NYC or miami. most of the talent comes from new york.

 

they use a booking agency for comedians and some independent cabaret artists, magicians and musicians. the art gallery (park west) is a concession. as is duty free liquor and cosmetics and such.

[Pghcrews]

28 minutes ago, complawyer said:

hey pgh. poster got exactly what he originally bargained for. ncl returned the extra money he placed on his upgrade bid, there were absolutely no errors, omissions or malfeasance in any way on the part of ncl and/or its contractors, subcontractors, agents, sub agents, employees or anyone else connected to, hired by or in any way affiliated with t he cruise line.

contracts 101 common sense 102 and continuing. besides which, you made y our post sound like a law school exam. lighten up!!

Hey, never intended it to say that anybody deserved compensation, I was only trying to explain contract/agency law.  Sorry about the law school exam overtones, my bad. I wasn't trying to be "heavy handed" ... really.  Was trying to explain the best I could so that it was at least somewhat understandable.

 

Also was unaware that the NCL PPCs were not independent contractors.  Hope that even though the example was flawed it still made some sense.

[Agent999]

1 hour ago, Panhandle Couple said:

Ever had you airline 12th row window seat changed to row 32 middle seat? 

And you didn't find out until airport check in?

And you received zero compensation or sympathy from the airline?

And your only alternative to get a similar seat again was to wait until the 10AM flight the next day?

 

[Raises hand}

 

That is an interesting story, but it isn't really even close to what happened to the OP.

 

What happened to the OP would be like:

Ever had your airline 12th row window seat change to row 32 middle seat?

And you didn't find out until airport check in?

And then the airline gave you a written explanation, admitted the error, apologized and changed things so you were reassigned to your 12th row window seat?

 

 

^^^THIS is similar to what the OP experienced. The error was caught, fixed, and apologized for. Any funds charged were promptly returned. The OP was given the cabin they happily booked in the first place.

 

Another similar comparison would be if you had a 12 row window seat booked. When you showed up at check in, the agent tells you that they can upgrade you to first class if you'd like, and of course, you say "yes, please". Then, when the agent processes the upgrade, they say: "Oh, I misread the screen, we have no availability in first class. I apologize for my error. I've re-assigned you to your original seat." and your reaction is to seek advice on the internet on how to wrangle "compensation".

[DCGuy64]

18 minutes ago, Agent999 said:

Another similar comparison would be if you had a 12 row window seat booked. When you showed up at check in, the agent tells you that they can upgrade you to first class if you'd like, and of course, you say "yes, please". Then, when the agent processes the upgrade, they say: "Oh, I misread the screen, we have no availability in first class. I apologize for my error. I've re-assigned you to your original seat." and your reaction is to seek advice on the internet on how to wrangle "compensation".

Exactly. Well said.

 

2 hours ago, scooter6139 said:

The upgrade company is the same one used throughout the travel industry.  Princess also uses it.  So do many airlines.

Thank you for confirming that, @scooter6139. BTW I love the cute dog in that pic!

[julig22]

On 6/14/2023 at 1:44 PM, Pghcrews said:

Also was unaware that the NCL PPCs were not independent contractors.  Hope that even though the example was flawed it still made some sense.

Substitute Travel Agency/Agent for PCC and you are good.

[complawyer]

agent999 brilliant analogy. bravo. pgh, you need to read this. makes perfect sense

 

 

[Hearthosesteeldrumsplayin]

Don't know if this in any way applies, but when we checked in to our 3 bedroom Dawn cruise, our cabin had been cancelled.  This was our original cabin.  A couple in our group (we were coming from different locations) tested positive for CoVID, so they cancelled ALL of us.  NCL was able to re-instate, but I actually thought "wonder if they had upgraded someone to our cabin and now have to tell them, oops, sorry!"  What a let-down that would be!  Of course, it would have been heck if we were not able to re-secure the stateroom, too!

[SeekingKillerWhales!]

On 6/14/2023 at 6:12 AM, DCGuy64 said:

I can't agree with the argument that the company someone hires is the responsible of the one who contracted it. If I host a party for 50 people at my house and the caterer I hired doesn't show up, that's on me now? I don't think so. Or I hire a taxicab to get me to the cruise port and he doesn't show up on time so I'm late and miss my cruise, that's now my fault? Nope. NCL doesn't own the upgrade bidding site, they contract with them. There's always the risk (since it's not NCL-owned) that an offer will be approved and later retracted. That doesn't mean I think it's OK, because I'd be disappointed, too. For sure. But that doesn't mean NCL is liable. This is all rather moot since OP got his original cabin back and is probably enjoying his cruise now while we debate this subject.

Ummm, hate to point out specifics, but NCL would absolutely hold you responsible for missing your cruise, regardless of the reason. YOU would be responsible for getting to the next port. Or YOU would be responsible for going through insurance for a refund. Or YOU would be responsible for the cost of the cruise if you had no insurance. NCL would not take a lick of responsibility for that.

 

And of course, there is always the fact that should this scenario happen to a cruiser and they post it here, especially if they are a new cruiser and they are upset and hurting by this situation, YOU would not hesitate to point out how this situation is actually their fault. Just saying. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by SeekingKillerWhales!

[insidecabin]

29 minutes ago, SeekingKillerWhales! said:

Ummm, hate to point out specifics, but NCL would absolutely hold you responsible for missing your cruise, regardless of the reason. YOU would be responsible for getting to the next port. Or YOU would be responsible for going through insurance for a refund. Or YOU would be responsible for the cost of the cruise if you had no insurance. NCL would not take a lick of responsibility for that.

 

And of course, there is always the fact that should this scenario happen to a cruiser and they post it here, especially if they are a new cruiser and they are upset and hurting by this situation, YOU would not hesitate to point out how this situation is actually their fault. Just saying. 

The use of poor examples.

 

The equivalent is an NCL provided transfer where that transfer fails to get you to the ship.

 

NCL responsible.

 

Party where you promise to provide a buffet and it fails it's your reputation that is tarnished no one cares why you failed to deliver ( no matter how many excuses you make).

 

There is also the issue of unfair contact as the consumer is bound to accept whatever they are allocated where as the company can back out if they decide they don't like what they offered.

 

 

 

 

[DCGuy64]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:54 PM, SeekingKillerWhales! said:

Ummm, hate to point out specifics, but NCL would absolutely hold you responsible for missing your cruise, regardless of the reason. YOU would be responsible for getting to the next port. Or YOU would be responsible for going through insurance for a refund. Or YOU would be responsible for the cost of the cruise if you had no insurance. NCL would not take a lick of responsibility for that.

 

And of course, there is always the fact that should this scenario happen to a cruiser and they post it here, especially if they are a new cruiser and they are upset and hurting by this situation, YOU would not hesitate to point out how this situation is actually their fault. Just saying. 

Oh, I do think you've misunderstood what I meant by the above examples. What I was saying is that I'm not at fault if the taxi driver gets me there late, AND NEITHER IS NCL. The taxi driver is at fault. If I place a bid on a 3rd party bidding site and the system incorrectly assigns me a cabin and then retracts it, IT'S NOT THE CRUISE LINE'S FAULT, EITHER. (Sorry for all caps, it's meant for emphasis only) The OP seemed to be blaming NCL for the mishap created by the bidding site, and my point is: NOT NCL'S FAULT. 3rd party company not owned by NCL, therefore ZERO liability.

Edited June 21, 2023 by DCGuy64

[UKstages]

the cruise line bears all responsibility for the performance of its contractors and subcontractors. that doesn’t mean the cruise line can’t sue or negotiate with those contractors behind the scenes to hold them liable for something. but in terms of dealing with customers, the cruise line is on the hook for failure to provide a necessary service or a product defect. if an outsourced firm (that the customer doesn’t even know exists) makes a mistake, the cruise line is responsible for that mistake. i’m not saying compensation is due in this case, that’s an entirely different question… just that NCL is responsible for its upgrade program, regardless of which entity processes those upgrades. 

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, UKstages said:

the cruise line bears all responsibility for the performance of its contractors and subcontractors

Where is that legal language written? I'm sorry, but I don't believe you.

[Belletora]

34 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Where is that legal language written? I'm sorry, but I don't believe you.

 

Sorry, but this reminds me that just because one is ignorant of a law does not make the law any less applicable to them. Bottom line? Contract law would fall into play. Just because you cannot find where it is written does not negate the fact. You hire a subcontractor to complete a task for your company; legally, you are liable. 

 

And no, not saying the OP is deserving of any type of compensation. 

[UKstages]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Where is that legal language written? I'm sorry, but I don't believe you.

i didn’t mention any law, nor did I refer to any legal language.

 

why would you “believe” that a company that has no relationship with you whatsoever would be responsible for making good or fulfilling a promise made by a company with which you do have an actual relationship?