Casino closed all day/night - Italian regulations

[podgeandrodge]

So casino closed all day yesterday, after leaving Livorno, due to 'Italian regulations '. 

 

But was open the evening we left Naples.

 

Anyone understand this?

[chillyw]

Usually when this happens it has to do with being in their waters and subject to that country's taxes.

 

How long did it take you to sail out of Italian waters? If you were in Italian waters until like midnight or 1AM, they probably just chose to shut it down for the night.

[podgeandrodge]

44 minutes ago, chillyw said:

Usually when this happens it has to do with being in their waters and subject to that country's taxes.

 

How long did it take you to sail out of Italian waters? If you were in Italian waters until like midnight or 1AM, they probably just chose to shut it down for the night.

Yeah. The strange thing is the casino was open very quickly after Naples, heading to Livorno and that part of the trip hugs the coast of Italy, and yet all open!

[FLAHAM]

So NCL hates earning revenue in its casinos?

[ashkay16]

Its not an NCL decision . Depends on which country’s waters you are in . I know when i go to bermuda and we are there 

multiple days the casino opens at 9pm for the night .  Bermuda had to ok this 

[Russiamomm]

Same thing happened to me in May.  It has something to do with “cash transactions”.  The duty free stores opened long before the casino did.  I asked the casino manager about it and that was her answer.  The duty free stores don’t handle “cash” and could open.  Don’t ask me about the details.  I still don’t get it.  There are also weird rules on alcohol in Italy - or NCL’s interpretation of them or failure to pay the fees required.  It’s been the subject of numerous debates here.

 

 Greece is just as bad, or even worse.  I booked a Sailaway rate for the Italy/Greece ten night trip in May (a B2B with the TA on the Breakaway.). I thought my reasoning was solid - port intensive trip, I got free drinks in the casino when it was open, etc.). But never again.  Without a drink package you couldn’t even buy a drink (not even a Coke) while in Greek waters!  I made lots of friends with a drink package,  😂
 

Moral of story - do your research and always get the drink package.  😂. Europe is different than the US.

 

[omahabob]

You most likely 'hugged' the coast in international waters. There are several offshore islands around Livorno that extend territorial waters further out than around Naples. There may also have been a scheduling consideration. If the time in international waters was limited due to the next port location, they're less likely to open a casino for short periods. So, it's not just where you are, but how long you'll be there.

[cruiserbear55]

2 hours ago, ashkay16 said:

Bermuda had to ok this 

 

  For a fee, of course! When it was instituted back in 2013, the fee for a 2000-2500 passenger ship making more than 15 visits a year was $75,000.00. More passengers, higher fees. For the life of me, I can't find an updated fee schedule, but like everything, licenses have probably increased in cost.

[chillyw]

20 hours ago, ashkay16 said:

Its not an NCL decision . Depends on which country’s waters you are in . I know when i go to bermuda and we are there 

multiple days the casino opens at 9pm for the night .  Bermuda had to ok this 

 

Typically this is due to taxes / fees in the locality they're in. That to me means it is an NCL decision.

[graphicguy]

Not familiar with all the rules, but I know whenever I’ve been docked or just sailing in or out of a Port, local regulations keep the casinos on board from operating.  I’m sure the laws are different from port to port.  But, I would imagine it has more to do with taking revenue away from the ports than anything else.

 

If you’ve cruised a while, this has always been the case.  

[graphicguy]

21 minutes ago, chillyw said:

 

Typically this is due to taxes / fees in the locality they're in. That to me means it is an NCL decision.

How do you get to this?  NCL has no input as to the rules, taxes and/or fees in individual localities.  

[chillyw]

55 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

How do you get to this?  NCL has no input as to the rules, taxes and/or fees in individual localities.  

 

They have some influence through lobbying, but the reason why I say it's ultimately NCL is it's their decision whether to open and pay the fees or taxes. Right now, they don't view that as a good business decision, but ultimately it's their decision.

 

(Obviously that's not the case in places like the Canary Islands that ban it no matter what).

Edited June 25, 2023 by chillyw

[graphicguy]

Which local tax/fees are keeping NCL from opening their casino?  

Edited June 25, 2023 by graphicguy

[chillyw]

48 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Which local tax/fees are keeping NCL from opening their casino?  

 

They generally have to pay a gaming tax based on whatever territory they're in to that country or locale.

 

If you don't believe me, check out the answer on Quora from a GM on Princess Cruises:

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-cruise-ship-casinos-have-to-stop-operations-when-in-port

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by chillyw

[BirdTravels]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:13 AM, podgeandrodge said:

So casino closed all day yesterday, after leaving Livorno, due to 'Italian regulations '. 

 

But was open the evening we left Naples.

 

Anyone understand this?

Did you ask someone on the ship?

[graphicguy]

OK…it says this….

 

 

“Cruise ship casinos have to stop operations when in port because of the laws and regulations that govern gambling.

In many countries, it is illegal for a cruise ship casino to operate while docked at a port.

This is due to concerns about potential criminal activity associated with gambling on board ships, as well as worries about the impact of such activities on local economies.

Additionally, some ports may require additional licensing or permits for cruise ships offering gaming services while in their waters.

As such, most cruise lines choose to err on the side of caution and suspend all gaming activities until they are back out at sea again.”

 

So, the cruise lines operating casinos (and on board shops) find it’s illegal to operate in that country’s waters or in port.  Some ports need additional licensing, so cruise lines suspend operations to err on the side of caution.

 

Cruise lines make money on their casinos.  If they could, they would open.  To somehow state that NCL, or any cruise line, can open their casinos in port/countries territorial waters,  makes zero sense!

[chillyw]

24 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

OK…it says this….

 

 

“Cruise ship casinos have to stop operations when in port because of the laws and regulations that govern gambling.

In many countries, it is illegal for a cruise ship casino to operate while docked at a port.

This is due to concerns about potential criminal activity associated with gambling on board ships, as well as worries about the impact of such activities on local economies.

Additionally, some ports may require additional licensing or permits for cruise ships offering gaming services while in their waters.

As such, most cruise lines choose to err on the side of caution and suspend all gaming activities until they are back out at sea again.”

 

So, the cruise lines operating casinos (and on board shops) find it’s illegal to operate in that country’s waters or in port.  Some ports need additional licensing, so cruise lines suspend operations to err on the side of caution.

 

Cruise lines make money on their casinos.  If they could, they would open.  To somehow state that NCL, or any cruise line, can open their casinos in port/countries territorial waters,  makes zero sense!

 

That wasn't the answer by the GM on Princess, that was a random person. 

 

The post you wanted was this one:

 

 

There certainly are countries that don't permit it (like the Cayman islands, or Hawaii with a Hawaiian flagged ship like the Pride of America), but that's usually not the case.  It's a matter of the taxes, fees, and/or timing causing them to make a business decision not to open.

Edited June 25, 2023 by chillyw

[podgeandrodge]

57 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Did you ask someone on the ship?

Now why didn't I think of that!

 

 

Yes. "Italian regulations" , would not elaborate. Didn't bother trying to get someone more senior .

[graphicguy]

39 minutes ago, chillyw said:

 

That wasn't the answer by the GM on Princess, that was a random person. 

 

The post you wanted was this one:

 

 

There certainly are countries that don't permit it (like the Cayman islands, or Hawaii with a Hawaiian flagged ship like the Pride of America), but that's usually not the case.  It's a matter of the taxes, fees, and/or timing causing them to make a business decision not to open.

So, Princess forgoes allowing casino to operate because of the hassle of the hassle.  So, what are the laws in Italy?  This doesn’t sound unique to NCL if Princess GM makes this statement.  And, it’s a general observation, not specific to Italy or NCL!

 

I sailed MSC Divina in the Mediterranean.  Casino was never open when we were docked or near any of the ports in Italy, Spain or France!  They are based in Europe.  So, probably have a good handle on casino laws in the area!

Edited June 25, 2023 by graphicguy

[chillyw]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

So, Princess forgoes allowing casino to operate because of the hassle of the hassle.  So, what are the laws in Italy?  This doesn’t sound unique to NCL if Princess GM makes this statement.  And, it’s a general observation, not specific to Italy or NCL!

 

I sailed MSC Divina in the Mediterranean.  Casino was never open when we were docked or near any of the ports in Italy, Spain or France!  They are based in Europe.  So, probably have a good handle on casino laws in the area!

 

Glad you understand!

 

You're exactly right that is not unique to NCL. I never said it was. I also was replying in generalities instead of specifically about Italy.  And the post I replied to was talking in generalities as well, referring to Bermuda and other countries.

 

As a reminder, in the post you replied to originally, I said this:

 

"Typically this is due to taxes / fees in the locality they're in. That to me means it is an NCL decision."

 

This is no different then Princess looking at regulations and taxes and deciding it's not worth it for them. Each cruise line controls if they want to deal with it or not, and then makes their own choice.

 

Princess and MSC get to decide if they want to deal with taxes and regulations or just close too. One of them could make a different decision if it made sense for them. It's not God or the King forcing them all to behave the same way.

[omahabob]

5 hours ago, chillyw said:

 

They have some influence through lobbying, but the reason why I say it's ultimately NCL is it's their decision whether to open and pay the fees or taxes. Right now, they don't view that as a good business decision, but ultimately it's their decision.

Yes, it's their decision not to break the law and open the casino where it's not allowed, thus opening themselves up to fines, which ultimately will result in higher cruise prices for everyone.

 

As regards not paying more taxes and fees, yes, it's their decision not to raise the cruise prices on all the passengers so you can spend more time in the casino.

 

In both cases, WELL DONE, NCL!