PVSA Confusion

[CruizinSusan70]

Just received a form letter from Princess regarding a B2B2B that we booked last week.  Had gotten an email from our assigned PVP at Princess and he did not mention any possible problems or violations, but the form letter stated we had to remove one of our cruises, but did not give any more specifics. Here are the details.

Cruise one is RT Los Angeles going to Mexican Riviera from 4/19-4/26/25.  Cruise two is four days from 4/26-4/30/25 going from Los Angeles to Vancouver with zero port stops.  Cruise three is four days from 4/30-5/4/25 going from Vancouver to Seattle with a single stop in Ketchikan.  

Each individual cruise should not have any violations.  They each visit a foreign port.  Then why does combining these cruises violate anything? They are treated as three separate voyages by Princess, so why does combining them cause a red flag violation of an antiquated law?

 

I was on hold for an hour earlier tonight before talking to a clueless CSR.  Before I go back on hold and speak to a supervisor tomorrow or Wednesday I figured I would come here and attempt to get some clarification before I call Princess back.  Thank you for your input.

[kiwimum]

Definitely a violation.   You are going from Los  Angeles to Seattle.   No distant foreign port visited.   You could do the LA to Vancouver with no issues.

Edited August 8, 2023 by kiwimum

[Guest ldtr]

Yep, you need to get off in Vancouver and not do the 3rd cruise.

 

Otherwise it is LA to Seattle and not allowed.

[Steelers36]

27 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Each individual cruise should not have any violations. 

TRUE - but the key word is INDIVIDUAL

They each visit a foreign port. 

That is not the rule - It must be a DISTANT foreign port in this case and nothing in Canada is considered distant.

Then why does combining these cruises violate anything? They are treated as three separate voyages by Princess, so why does combining them cause a red flag violation of an antiquated law?

YES, they are three separate voyages, but you elected to book them all and combine them in one contiguous "logical" voyage.  You are fine until you attempt to depart Vancouver and arrive back in the US at a different port (Seattle) than the one you left from (LA).  A closed-loop voyage is okay and doesn't require the distant foreign port part.  If arriving back to a different port (like an open jaw in flying), then you must have visited a distant foreign port.  You would have also been legal if the cruise departed Vancouver anytime after the day of your arrival (so you spend at least one night in Canada).

 

PS - If you think the law is antiquated, then write your Congressman/woman and Senator and tell them what you think.

 

See above in italics.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Steelers36

[Mary Ellen1]

This happened to me a few weeks ago.  We had a 4-way B2B that started in Whittier, AK, and ultimately ended in Long Beach, CA. So, as far as the PVSA is concerned, we're sailing from Alaska to California.  USA to USA.  No good.  We wound up having to cancel the final leg (Vancouver to Long Beach), and are now ending our cruise in Vancouver.  

 

It took Princess a week or so to catch this.  We'd booked it online, all 4 legs, and the TA's system let us do it.  Then we got the email from Princess, apparently after their compliance people had looked at it. 

[cr8tiv1]

There are several check list factors involved when doing a back to back.

 

Is it a closed loop (start at same port and end at same port)?  Requires a NEAR foreign Port.  Example LA/Hawaii/Ensenada/LA).  

 

Does it involve 2 different ports (LA/Panama Canal/FLL)?  Requires a DISTANT foreign port as in one of the ABC islands or a port in SOUTH America.

 

Your B2B2B simply starts in LA and ends in SEA.  They are both in North America.  You would need a DISTANT Foreign port not part of North America (Canada counts as a NEAR foreign port).   

 

Since you are ending one segment in Vancouver, why don't you spend the night and hop on another ship going to Seattle?  Princess requires every ship leaving San Francisco or LA to got to Vancouver before starting their season round trip out of Seattle.  

[CruizinSusan70]

14 minutes ago, kiwimum said:

Definitely a violation.   You are going from Los  Angeles to Seattle.   No distant foreign port visited.   You could do the LA to Vancouver with no issues.

Not flying coast to coast for a four day cruise or even a seven day cruise.  I realize we are going from LA to Seattle, but if the la to Vancouver is ok because it ends in Vancouver and the Vancouver to Seattle is ok because it starts in Vancouver and Vancouver is this considered a distant port, why the violation?  I assume it would still be a violation if we eliminated the La-La portion and added a Sea-Sea Alaska portion on the back end?

[cr8tiv1]

1 minute ago, Mary Ellen1 said:

This happened to me a few weeks ago.  We had a 4-way B2B that started in Whittier, AK, and ultimately ended in Long Beach, CA. So, as far as the PVSA is concerned, we're sailing from Alaska to California.  USA to USA.  No good.  We wound up having to cancel the final leg (Vancouver to Long Beach), and are now ending our cruise in Vancouver.  

 

It took Princess a week or so to catch this.  We'd booked it online, all 4 legs, and the TA's system let us do it.  Then we got the email from Princess, apparently after their compliance people had looked at it. 

 

Princess does not sail in/out of Long Beach.  Their home port is San Pedro/LA.

[CruizinSusan70]

3 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Yep, you need to get off in Vancouver and not do the 3rd cruise.

 

Otherwise it is LA to Seattle and not allowed.

That's the whole purpose, to visit my daughter in Seattle on the back end.  Also wanted short four day cruises to take advantage of the Premier package.  Very frustrated over this, especially after the PVP never mentioned any problems.

[kiwimum]

6 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Not flying coast to coast for a four day cruise or even a seven day cruise.  I realize we are going from LA to Seattle, but if the la to Vancouver is ok because it ends in Vancouver and the Vancouver to Seattle is ok because it starts in Vancouver and Vancouver is this considered a distant port, why the violation?  I assume it would still be a violation if we eliminated the La-La portion and added a Sea-Sea Alaska portion on the back end?

Vancouver is not a distant foreign port.    You could disembark in Vancouver and board a different ship, no violation. Or you could take the Princess transfer from Vancouver to Seattle and visit your daughter.  LA to LA and Seattle to Seattle are closed loop, boarding and disembarking same port.

Good luck and hopefully you can work it out to visit family.

Edited August 8, 2023 by kiwimum

[Steelers36]

7 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Not flying coast to coast for a four day cruise or even a seven day cruise.  I realize we are going from LA to Seattle, but if the la to Vancouver is ok because it ends in Vancouver and the Vancouver to Seattle is ok because it starts in Vancouver and Vancouver is this considered a distant port, why the violation?  I assume it would still be a violation if we eliminated the La-La portion and added a Sea-Sea Alaska portion on the back end?

Nothing in Canada is a distant port.  It is a near port.  So, that is okay as either point of origin or final destination.  You could do the LA closed-loop, fly to SEA and do another closed-loop from there.

 

Or you could cruise LA-LA + LA-VAN.  Then drive to SEA from VAN and either stop cruising and visit or do a SEA-SEA loop first.

Or you could just LA-VAN, go by land again to SEA and do a SEA-SEA loop. 

 

Or you can take another cruise line out of VAN and no one knows you are getting around the Act.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Steelers36

[cr8tiv1]

7 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Not flying coast to coast for a four day cruise or even a seven day cruise.  I realize we are going from LA to Seattle, but if the la to Vancouver is ok because it ends in Vancouver and the Vancouver to Seattle is ok because it starts in Vancouver and Vancouver is this considered a distant port, why the violation?  I assume it would still be a violation if we eliminated the La-La portion and added a Sea-Sea Alaska portion on the back end?

 

If you are considering:  LA to Vancouver to SEA to Alaska to SEA, you would still be in violation since you are starting in LA and ending in SEA.  

 

Write your Congressman/woman.  I've dealt with this for most of my life!

Edited August 8, 2023 by cr8tiv1

[snoozecrooze]

6 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Vancouver and the Vancouver to Seattle is ok because it starts in Vancouver and Vancouver is this considered a distant port, why the violation?  I assume it would still be a violation if we eliminated the La-La portion and added a Sea-Sea Alaska portion on the back end?

Vancouver simply isn't distant. There are basically no "distant" ports when it comes to round-trip Alaska cruises that current itineraries in today's era offer.

 

This is the following provision from the Passenger Vessel Services Act file on the US CBP website:

"A “distant foreign port” is any foreign port that is not defined as a “nearby foreign port.” A “nearby foreign port” is defined as any foreign port in North or Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or 
the West Indies (except the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)."

[Steelers36]

2 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

 

If you are considering:  LA to Vancouver to SEA to Alaska to SEA, you would still be in violation since you are starting in LA and ending in SEA.  

 

Write your Congressman/woman.  I've dealt with this for most of my life!

If the schedules permit, you could get off in VAN and travel to SEA and catch the next ship from there (different ship;different day).  No violations.

[CruizinSusan70]

4 minutes ago, kiwimum said:

Vancouver is not a distant foreign port.    You could disembark in Vancouver and board a different ship, no violation.  LA to LA and Seattle to Seattle are closed loop, boarding and disembarking same port.

If Vancouver is not a distant foreign port, then how does the Discovery legally do a four day cruise that goes from San Pedro to Vancouver and makes zero port stops?

[Steelers36]

Just now, CruizinSusan70 said:

If Vancouver is not a distant foreign port, then how does the Discovery legally do a four day cruise that goes from San Pedro to Vancouver and makes zero port stops?

Because the voyage ends in a different country than start in USA.  Can also do the reverse - start foreign and end in USA.

[cr8tiv1]

3 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Because the voyage ends in a different country than start in USA.  Can also do the reverse - start foreign and end in USA.

 

PSVA is only a United States law.  It only applies to foreign flagged vessels that cruise from US ports.

[CruizinSusan70]

2 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Because the voyage ends in a different country than start in USA.  Can also do the reverse - start foreign and end in USA.

If we flew into Vancouver, which is a pain since it not non stop, and did the four day to Seattle, stayed on board and did Alaska for another 7 days, then we would be reducing our trip from 15 days to 11 days.  This would be legal, but if ending in Seattle, there is no way to start in San Pedro.  

[CruizinSusan70]

2 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

 

PSVA is only a United States law.  It only applies to foreign flagged vessels that cruise from US ports.

The Pride of America from NCL is the only US flagged vessel I'm aware of.

[Steelers36]

7 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

 

PVSA is only a United States law.  It only applies to foreign flagged vessels that cruise from US ports.

I know that, but a voyage with such a ship is legal if it only arrives or departs from US - like a one-way - and the other end is outside US.  Correct? 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Steelers36

[sunviking90]

You could catch the HAL Eurodam on May 2 for a one night cruise to Seattle. That was the only yvr-sea cruise that matched your dates that I could see. I personally wouldn’t bother with that and you’d still need to stay in Vancouver for 2 nights first. Someone mentioned taking the Princess transfer to SEA and I agree that is your best option. 

[kiwimum]

Years ago we travelled back and forth to Hawaii on the Celebrity Solstice from San Diego to Hawaii.   Check in was at a hotel in San Diego, boarded buses and we transferred to Ensenada to board the ship.  Similar on boarding in Hawaii, disembark in Ensenada, bus to San Diego.   Everyone with the exception of ships company was required to bus transfer to San Diego (Casino, Art, Spa, shops staff included).   Southbound transfer was okay with the exception of the buses that got lost.  Northbound was horrendous because of the border crossing.  The ship dead headed to San Diego to board the next cruise as it was not from one US port to another.  
PVSA at its finest.  

[BlerkOne]

24 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

The Pride of America from NCL is the only US flagged vessel I'm aware of.

There are a number of US flagged vessels - Mississippi River cruise ships, for example.

[cr8tiv1]

NCL Pride of America (why they didn’t keep Pride of Hawaii….) is just the tip of the iceberg.  Lots and lots and lots of politics involved in that conversion.  
 

26 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

The Pride of America from NCL is the only US flagged vessel I'm aware of.

Correct.  
 

26 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

I know that, but a voyage with such a ship is legal if it only arrives or departs from US - like a one-way - and the other end is outside US.  Correct? 

 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

If Vancouver is not a distant foreign port, then how does the Discovery legally do a four day cruise that goes from San Pedro to Vancouver and makes zero port stops?

Because it starts in US and ends in Canada. PVSA does not apply.