Response from Princess to email re changes

[SCX22]

50 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

So, Princess contracted Accenture to build the app and deploy the tech behind said app. Considering the complexity of the app, it was likely not cheap, and hence PCL decided to go with the cheapest bidder. Well, Accenture (and the others) make heavy use of SEA (south east Asia), to design and code these apps and tech with sometimes questionable oversight from the MDs and consultants cashing the big checks in America, UK, and other western nations.

 

Princess purged all of the MedallionClass Mondays videos that were released during the pandemic on their YouTube page.  As usual, Princess forgot to scrub the video off their Facebook page. 

 

The video linked below from the Princess Facebook page makes it seem like "XiC" in FLL were responsible for the MedallionApp.  Bunch of baloney since we all know that Accenture coded the App because their company name was printed on the free lanyards given with the Medallions when they were first launched.

 

https://www.facebook.com/PrincessCruises/videos/medallionclass-mondays-behind-the-scenes-of-the-xic/202686581470412/

[rosevew]

16 minutes ago, Tigrou said:

 

I wonder if anyone will contact ABTA.  (In the UK, Princess is a member of the Association of British Travel Agents and, as such, should comply with the ABTA Code of Conduct.)

 

From the ABTA Code of Conduct Guidance:

 

"Advertising

 

Code 1D Members shall ensure that no Advertising or Promotion or any other publication, whether in writing or otherwise, shall contain anything that is likely to mislead the public.

 

The first point of contact between an ABTA Member and a client is likely to be their advertising. Difficulties later on can often be traced back to problems with advertising, be it inaccurate brochure descriptions, unclear information on a website, or press adverts that don't contain adequate information.

 

In the Code, advertising is widely defined as “a means of promoting Travel Arrangements by any printed, viewable, audible or other form” so it includes brochures, all types of marketing and can include viewdata as well, depending on the circumstances of the case.

 

In general, advertising mustn’t mislead. Clients must be provided with sufficient information so that they can make informed choices. Remember clients might be misled by omission. Adverts must be based on accurate information. Members are less likely to be found to be in breach of this Code of Conduct if they can show that they had good procedures in place to verify the accuracy of the descriptions in their advertising."

Me

Me

[damiross]

2 hours ago, ldtr said:

...the term significant...

"Significant" to corporations is a term that can be whatever they want it to mean, down to and including 1 (ONE) person.

Corporations also rarely show their data so there's no way customers can see how much lying the corporations are doing.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, damiross said:

"Significant" to corporations is a term that can be whatever they want it to mean, down to and including 1 (ONE) person.

Corporations also rarely show their data so there's no way customers can see how much lying the corporations are doing.

However in this case the term significant is a key part of several different travel related consumer protection laws. For example the EU directive 2015/2032 package travel and linked arrangements, the language clearly discusses when significant changes are made. The UK PTR uses the term in the same fashion  So In case the term does have meaning in consumer protection law. The question would be if those system would agree or not if the changes are significant and the protection laws apply or if they are not significant as Princess considers them to be. In either case the use of the term does not seem to be accidental in that letter.

Edited August 20, 2023 by ldtr

[Steelers36]

17 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

 

Princess purged all of the MedallionClass Mondays videos that were released during the pandemic on their YouTube page.  As usual, Princess forgot to scrub the video off their Facebook page. 

 

The video linked below from the Princess Facebook page makes it seem like "XiC" in FLL were responsible for the MedallionApp.  Bunch of baloney since we all know that Accenture coded the App because their company name was printed on the free lanyards given with the Medallions when they were first launched.

 

https://www.facebook.com/PrincessCruises/videos/medallionclass-mondays-behind-the-scenes-of-the-xic/202686581470412/

I am not so sure we know the scope of the Accenture engagement.  Perhaps they were mostly involved with the Medallion tech itself, connectivity to ship database and intranet and the ability to unlock cabin doors and interface with ship-board systems for checking guests on/off the ship, identifying guests for orders/billing, etc. 

 

Does anyone know for certain that Accenture was involved in the pre-cruise Ocean Ready and DMW?  It's really neither here-nor-there as some people are saying they are long gone from PCL now.  Bottom line is the whole thing lays at JP's feet.  The concept and ideas were great but the design and development/implementation were less than optimal (being kind) and near abysmal at first (being real).

[Guest ldtr]

22 minutes ago, rosevew said:

Me

 

You might to check and specifically exactly what are the damages that you would claim and how to prove those damages to an arbitrator. Also note the use of the term significant in the portions  of the code of conduct.  So the outcome of any dispute would hinge on if the arbitrator would agree with you or with Princess if the changes were significant or not. 

 

https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/legal-facts-about-making-a-claim

 

https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/customer-support/resolving-disputes

 

 

 

Significant Alterations by Principals or Organisers 3D) Not make a significant alteration to Travel Arrangements less than 14 days before the departure date of the Travel Arrangements unless constrained to do so as a result of circumstances beyond their control. See Guidance on the Application of the Code of Conduct. Clients’ Options on Significant Alterations 3E) Members who are Principals or Organisers shall, where previously confirmed Travel Arrangements are significantly altered, inform Agents and direct Clients without delay and offer Clients the choice of: i) accepting the alteration; or ii) cancelling the Travel Arrangements and receiving a full refund of all monies paid. Such refund shall be sent to Agents and direct Clients without delay; or iii) alternative Travel Arrangements of comparable standard, if available.

[SCX22]

30 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Does anyone know for certain that Accenture was involved in the pre-cruise Ocean Ready and DMW?  It's really neither here-nor-there as some people are saying they are long gone from PCL now.  Bottom line is the whole thing lays at JP's feet.  The concept and ideas were great but the design and development/implementation were less than optimal (being kind) and near abysmal at first (being real).

 

The article below makes it seem like Accenture played a large role.

 

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/carnival-corporation-taps-accenture-as-premier-innovation-partner

[B_A_H]

I posted this in the now 26 page long angst thread.  It was one of the five options I provided the castle storming villagers with.  

 

"Send a letter or letters to various decision makers at Princess sharing your displeasure.  You'll receive a placating letter or phone call from a customer service rep in return but they aren't going to do anything for you.  If they did something for you they'd have to do it for everybody and by not grandfathering everyone in to the new program Princess has already spoken."

 

Hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.  Princess isn't backing down and everyone's thrashing amongst themselves isn't going to change a thing.  There's nothing anyone can say in this thread that's any different than what was said ad nauseum in the 26 page thread. 

 

There's only one next step (other than acceptance) now that Princess's position is clear.  Lawyer up.  If you pursue an individual legal action prepare to pay the legal fees upfront as no lawyer would take this on contingency.  If it ends up a class action lawyers will make millions and you'll receive a $50 future cruise credit three years from now. 

 

Here are the five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.  Most here seem stuck in anger and bargaining.  My recommendation is getting to acceptance as quickly as you can because short of legal action (which won't solve the short term problem anyway) this is over. 

[SCX22]

Just my 2 cents (which will undoubtedly be unpopular)...

 

There's a lot of OBC floating around.  It's evidenced by the people's push back with the new OBC limits (can no longer combine certain categories of OBC and the new limit placed on OBC that a single booking can have) and passengers' inquiries and ability to cash out in the casino.  Princess wants to give passengers more ways of spending their OBC so that refunds will not have to be issued, which costs them money.

[caribill]

So they instituted this "nominal" charge for Pizza ($59.96 for a family of four) because of customer dissatisfaction with long lines?

 

Well, the lines at the main dining rooms for dinner can exceed what the lines have been at Alfredo's/Gigi's.

 

So, what will be the Princess solution to those long lines at the MDRs? 

[caribill]

4 hours ago, azbirdmom said:

  But if they are truly concerned about guests waiting unnecessarily then I think the first thing they should have tackled is the long wait times to reach a phone representative, and then when you reach them they are often not likely to be able to solve your issue.  Let's see them address that customer dissatisfaction issue which has been a lot more painful than waiting in line for pizza.

 

Maybe a "nominal" charge of $14.99 to reach a representative within 60 seconds would solve that problem.

[caribill]

5 hours ago, cr8tiv1 said:

 

Still does not address $5 room service charge for EliteSuite passengers. 

 

 

They did: "to ensure our guests receive the best possible service levels during their stay."

[memoak]

2 hours ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

So, Princess contracted Accenture to build the app and deploy the tech behind said app. Considering the complexity of the app, it was likely not cheap, and hence PCL decided to go with the cheapest bidder. Well, Accenture (and the others) make heavy use of SEA (south east Asia), to design and code these apps and tech with sometimes questionable oversight from the MDs and consultants cashing the big checks in America, UK, and other western nations.

 

I would estimate that the vast majority of consultants were under 25 YOA and had likely never stepped foot on a cruise ship, let alone a Princess cruise ship. Furthermore, a Princess cruise fare is prohibitively expensive for a Filipino, Vietnamese or whatever citizen of the world Accenture used to do the underlying coding.

 

Apple, Google, and Microsoft --- truth be told not even sure if they do app development like this --- would be far more costly to deliver an app built by their SWEs, but it would have been far more functional from Day One.

Having worked with Accenture in the past they are very inconsistent in their training. We always got nervous when one of the experienced ones got reassigned and we had to try and bring a new person up to speed

[memoak]

2 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

I doubt it.  I certainly have not seen this as a major issue when dipping into some "live from" reports.

On the Discovery in June there were a bunch of people with 6:30 reservations were told they would have to wait because the early diners were not done. Many tried to talk there way into the reserved class dining room to no avail 

[memoak]

2 hours ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

You can complain to guest services and you can even meet privately with the hotel director... maybe even the Captain if you're a squeaky enough wheel, but they're only responding to orders from corporate. The hotel director can personally be against all the changes, but good luck getting them to override what corporate says.

 

People that think complaining to guest services will accomplish anything are going to be in for a rude awakening.

It will just end up with longer lines, people ignoring elite / suite lines and people getting even more upset. Guest Services does not set rules

[caribill]

4 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

When I booked my last cruise, the brochure was full of pictures of beautiful young people enjoying bright sunshine, calm seas and blue skies.  When I went on the cruise, I was surrounded by pensioners and we had many days of grey skies, blustery seas and rain.  Can I have my money back?

 

That depends if you are a beautiful young person or if you are a pensioner.

 

You obviously did not go to the section of the ship that had bright sunshine, calm seas and blue skies. 

[Guest ldtr]

16 minutes ago, caribill said:

So they instituted this "nominal" charge for Pizza ($59.96 for a family of four) because of customer dissatisfaction with long lines?

 

Well, the lines at the main dining rooms for dinner can exceed what the lines have been at Alfredo's/Gigi's.

 

So, what will be the Princess solution to those long lines at the MDRs? 

Continued evolution of the existing system, pretty much along the same lines as their competition who have their versions of DMW.

[Guest ldtr]

5 minutes ago, memoak said:

It will just end up with longer lines, people ignoring elite / suite lines and people getting even more upset. Guest Services does not set rules

The Elite Suite line is usually slower than the normal line since usually only one person is working that line.

[B_A_H]

4 minutes ago, caribill said:

So, what will be the Princess solution to those long lines at the MDRs? 

Nothing @caribill, absolutely nothing.

 

Let me all give you some insight in to my cynicism.  I work for one of the major hotel companies.  I've lost track of the number of customer-unfriendly "enhancements" we've put in place since the pandemic.  Each accompanying public communication is hollowly swathed in the benefit to the customer.

 

Hard truth.  There is no customer benefit.  And the product and/or service degradation is solely to provide additional profit. Everything we degraded was then degraded by competitors.  If a competitor degrading something first we quickly followed. 

 

The airlines, hotel companies, and cruise lines are coming out of a cycle in which they all lost billions. Demand has coming roaring back and they're recouping their losses.  Maybe in a few years the dynamic will change as it has in past cycles.  Then with less demand or too much supply suppliers will start offering benefits for competitive differentiation.  That never works for long though because competitors match it.  The good news is that the raising of the bar will benefit the market.

 

Those of you harping on what customer service used to be like can just stop.  It's gone, at least in the cycle we're in.  This cycle is purely about money.  And none of these customer-unfriendly decisions are made without clear knowledge of their negative impact to loyalty and customer service. 

 

 

[memoak]

Just now, ldtr said:

The Elite Suite line is usually slower than the normal line since usually only one person is working that line.

I have never had an issue when the put up barriers to separate the lines bit last cruise it was all a free for all and lots of people who did not know what elite even meant 

[SCX22]

8 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

That depends if you are a beautiful young person or if you are a pensioner.

 

You obviously did not go to the section of the ship that had bright sunshine, calm seas and blue skies. 

 

Let's face it...Princess wants the pensioners out.

[Cruise Raider]

It comes to mind that the charge for room service has brought on by passengers themselves.  Or, orders one at a time not even thinking of the extra stress it puts on the system.  
While discussing this topic onboard with another passenger that was quite disappointed with the mere $5 charge, she noted that used to be able to just call room service and order items that aren’t on the menu.  I want and omelet with extra this, extra that!  This requires extra help for “special orders” which everyone seems to think is so very acceptable.  Passengers seem to say ‘jump’ and have heard back, ‘how high?’.  I’ve seen it time and time again .. even here on cruise critic.  They want spaghetti and it isn’t on the menu but someone has to take the time to prepare spaghetti for those guests that just think every rule should be bent for them … multiply that by 3000+ or even by 1000.  I get why the changes were implemented.  
 

[Guest ldtr]

1 minute ago, SCX22 said:

 

Let's face it...Princess wants the pensioners out.

Not quite.  They would like to reduce the number of passengers that purchase basic fare only and do minimal onboard spending.  Either by getting them to spend more on board (preferably by purchasing a package) or to stop booking such that their rooms can be booke by those that are willing to spend more on board.  Their exact goal for the percentage change is what is unknown.  

Age does not matter if you generate sufficient revenue.

[Guest ldtr]

7 minutes ago, memoak said:

I have never had an issue when the put up barriers to separate the lines bit last cruise it was all a free for all and lots of people who did not know what elite even meant 

Have not seen barriers used on Royal class ships sometimes on grand class.  The problems I have seen have been not due to people going in the wrong line, but usually you might had 2-3 people working the normal line and  only one doing the suite elite line where one passenger can tie up the line 

[Cruise Raider]

4 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Not quite.  They would like to reduce the number of passengers that purchase basic fare only and do minimal onboard spending.  Either by getting them to spend more on board (preferably by purchasing a package) or to stop booking such that their rooms can be booke by those that are willing to spend more on board.  Their exact goal for the percentage change is what is unknown.  

Age does not matter if you generate sufficient revenue.

 Bravo 👏 

They would much rather not have those that are chronic complainers or super demanding without bringing in any additional revenue!  What business wouldn’t?