Open Loop (US->Can) Cruise with less than 6 Months on US Passport?

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

In any event, as I said, I was just curious, and I fully recognize that RCI can set document requirements as they see fit. 

It is a US document requirement not an RCI requirement. You have been in enough of these discussions that I would think you would understand the US closed loop exception that allows US citizens to use a birth certificate.. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Charles4515

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Closed loop cruises don't require a passport if from one US port and returning to the same US port don't require a passport. A cruise that leaves from a US port and does not return to the same US port requires a passport.whether it ends in the US or Canada That is not a ship rule that is a US rule enforced by CBP. 

Do you have any idea why? I'm not arguing the point, just trying to understand the logic behind it.

[Charles4515]

15 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Do you have any idea why? I'm not arguing the point, just trying to understand the logic behind it.

In 2009 when the rules were changed to require passports an exception was carved out for closed loop cruises. The logic used was that there was no or little risk if passengers left  from and returned to the same US port. That is what was stated in the regulation rule making. CBP said that.

 

Some cynics think that the cruise lines lobbied for the exception since only. about half of US citizens had passports. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Charles4515

[not-enough-cruising]

29 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Do you have any idea why? I'm not arguing the point, just trying to understand the logic behind it.

Google "Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative"

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

There's no difference in entry requirements between a one day port visit and a tourist visit up to 180 days. Other types of entry - to study, to work, etc. - require a visa.

Incorrect, a US citizen that cruises in and out of Canada can do so on a birth certificate, only if one is beginning or ending their cruise in Canada is a passport required.

[Fouremco]

45 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

In 2009 when the rules were changed to require passports an exception was carved out for closed loop cruises. The logic used was that there was no or little risk if passengers left  from and returned to the same US port. That is what was stated in the regulation rule making. CBP said that.

 

Some cynics think that the cruise lines lobbied for the exception since only. about half of US citizens had passports. 

Ah, that's the piece I was missing. Thanks for the explanation, very much appreciated.

 

25 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Incorrect, a US citizen that cruises in and out of Canada can do so on a birth certificate, only if one is beginning or ending their cruise in Canada is a passport required.

If you reread our previous exchanges, you'll see that I was referring to Canadian entry requirements, not those of the US.

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

Ah, that's the piece I was missing. Thanks for the explanation, very much appreciated.

 

If you reread our previous exchanges, you'll see that I was referring to Canadian entry requirements, not those of the US.

I was referring to Canadian requirements as well. 

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Incorrect, a US citizen that cruises in and out of Canada can do so on a birth certificate, only if one is beginning or ending their cruise in Canada is a passport required.

 

12 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I was referring to Canadian requirements as well. 

I say again, Canadian legislation does not require a US citizen to have a passport when embarking upon or disembarking from a cruise in Canada. From the CBSA:

 

Foreign National Passenger Clearance

The following persons do not require a passport to enter Canada; however, they must provide sufficient documentation to establish their identity and citizenship:

• U.S. Citizens;
• Resident Aliens of the U.S. seeking entry from the U.S. or St. Pierre et Miquelon;
• Persons registered as Indians under the Indian Act in Canada;
• Citizens of Canada; and
• Permanent Residents of Canada (Landed Immigrants).

 

Foreign nationals from any other country are required to have a valid passport.

 

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/cscp-pdnc-eng.html#a15d

 

 

 

From your own State Department?

 

Entry into Canada: Canadian law requires that all persons entering Canada carry proof of citizenship and identity. A valid U.S. passport, passport card, or NEXUS card satisfies these requirements for U.S. citizens.

 

Children under 16 only need proof of U.S. citizenship.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/Canada.html

 

As @Charles4515 has pointed out, this requirement for cruises originating or terminating in the US stems from US legislation.

 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

10 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 

I say again, Canadian legislation does not require a US citizen to have a passport when embarking upon or disembarking from a cruise in Canada. From the CBSA:

 

Foreign National Passenger Clearance

The following persons do not require a passport to enter Canada; however, they must provide sufficient documentation to establish their identity and citizenship:

• U.S. Citizens;
• Resident Aliens of the U.S. seeking entry from the U.S. or St. Pierre et Miquelon;
• Persons registered as Indians under the Indian Act in Canada;
• Citizens of Canada; and
• Permanent Residents of Canada (Landed Immigrants).

 

Foreign nationals from any other country are required to have a valid passport.

 

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/cscp-pdnc-eng.html#a15d

 

 

 

From your own State Department?

 

Entry into Canada: Canadian law requires that all persons entering Canada carry proof of citizenship and identity. A valid U.S. passport, passport card, or NEXUS card satisfies these requirements for U.S. citizens.

 

Children under 16 only need proof of U.S. citizenship.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/Canada.html

 

As @Charles4515 has pointed out, this requirement for cruises originating or terminating in the US stems from US legislation.

 

 

And how exactly does the Canadian government expect an American citizen to probe citizenship? With the exception of a few northern states issuing enhanced DLs, a passport is the only document we have to prove citizenship. 

[d9704011]

9 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

And how exactly does the Canadian government expect an American citizen to probe citizenship? With the exception of a few northern states issuing enhanced DLs, a passport is the only document we have to prove citizenship. 

That seems a bit limited...

 

A4en.pdf

Edited September 10, 2023 by d9704011

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

And how exactly does the Canadian government expect an American citizen to probe citizenship? With the exception of a few northern states issuing enhanced DLs, a passport is the only document we have to prove citizenship. 

A passport, passport card, official birth certificate, a Trusted Traveler Program card such as NEXUS, and an EDL are some that come to mind. I believe that any of the US documents accepted by USCBP as proof of US citizenship for re-entry to the US following a closed loop cruise would be accepted by CBSA for disembarkation in Canada.