OCEANIA HELL: A reason to use another cruise line.

[Bongomauka]

8 minutes ago, Janet- said:

Have you written back to her to thank her for her help but told her you have still not received the "documents"

We have responded and was told that she will look into the matter. We await her response. 

[Psoque]

I hope this gets resolved soon.  My concern, however, is that your Kaiser Permanente Medicare Advantage Plan (I’m assuming) may not really cover (part or all) of the cost of overseas ambulance/evacuation, since the original Medicare certainly does not.  It’s possible that submission of this critical document may result in just official denial of coverage.  I know for a fact that insurers are not required to give their customer a guarantee of coverage until they are about to make their decision.

 

However, if your Medical Advantage Plan covers it, that’s great.  If not, you will then have to go to your secondary insurance companies, whichever volunteers to be the next one.

 

I don’t envy your position.  Our interaction with our primary travel insurance plan was much easier, and we are grate for that.

[Bongomauka]

7 hours ago, Psoque said:

I hope this gets resolved soon.  My concern, however, is that your Kaiser Permanente Medicare Advantage Plan (I’m assuming) may not really cover (part or all) of the cost of overseas ambulance/evacuation, since the original Medicare certainly does not.  It’s possible that submission of this critical document may result in just official denial of coverage.  I know for a fact that insurers are not required to give their customer a guarantee of coverage until they are about to make their decision.

 

However, if your Medical Advantage Plan covers it, that’s great.  If not, you will then have to go to your secondary insurance companies, whichever volunteers to be the next one.

 

I don’t envy your position.  Our interaction with our primary travel insurance plan was much easier, and we are grate for that.

Thanks for posting. The Kaiser third party insurance agent has told us that they will approve full payment of the costs of the medivac and only need documentation from Oceania/NCL Holdings that they paid. Our initial interaction with Kaiser was certainly frustrating and full of misdirection and wild goose chases but once we finally got the right person at the right department at the right third party organization, we made progress. That’s why it’s so frustrating and irritating that this one step is being impeded by Oceania/NCL and therefore the target of my angst and anger. 

[TRLD]

12 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

Thanks for posting. The Kaiser third party insurance agent has told us that they will approve full payment of the costs of the medivac and only need documentation from Oceania/NCL Holdings that they paid. Our initial interaction with Kaiser was certainly frustrating and full of misdirection and wild goose chases but once we finally got the right person at the right department at the right third party organization, we made progress. That’s why it’s so frustrating and irritating that this one step is being impeded by Oceania/NCL and therefore the target of my angst and anger. 

You commented that most of your discussions with Oceania have been through their normal travel insurance provider.  Were you told to send payment to them, or to Oceania or to NCLH?

 

Still trying to figure out why they have been your primary contact point.  Most other people that I know that have been through this kind of situation (not many but a few) with other cruise lines have worked directly with the cruise line itself, and the only time the cruise lines recommended insurance provider have been involved have been when they had purchased one of their policies.  Those that had third party coverage worked directly with the cruise line.

Edited January 17 by TRLD

[Bongomauka]

17 hours ago, Psoque said:

I hope this gets resolved soon.  My concern, however, is that your Kaiser Permanente Medicare Advantage Plan (I’m assuming) may not really cover (part or all) of the cost of overseas ambulance/evacuation, since the original Medicare certainly does not.  It’s possible that submission of this critical document may result in just official denial of coverage.  I know for a fact that insurers are not required to give their customer a guarantee of coverage until they are about to make their decision.

 

However, if your Medical Advantage Plan covers it, that’s great.  If not, you will then have to go to your secondary insurance companies, whichever volunteers to be the next one.

 

I don’t envy your position.  Our interaction with our primary travel insurance plan was much easier, and we are grate for that.

Sorry, I forgot to address your comment regarding our secondary insurance, Generali, which has taken a secondary claim position since this is a medical claim. Our dealings with them have bee relatively pain free and we no complaints about their service and response level. Even if Kaiser denies the claim due to their own judgement or because Oceania/NCL Holdings is not forthcoming with adequate documentation, we may have run out of time since the window for filing a claim for both Kaiser and Generali is one year. You'd think a whole year would be plenty of time but with all the foot dragging, misinformation, misdirection, and outright lies, we are actually surprised we are this far along. The looming deadline is what keeps us up at night. Thanks for your support.

[Psoque]

On 1/13/2024 at 1:40 AM, Bongomauka said:

 

 

If I were you, I would consider filing claim with the secondary insurance company now, before the 1 year limit is up.  There would not be any harm to your primary claim, but you could just contact the secondary insurance company and explain the situation.

[Bongomauka]

8 minutes ago, TRLD said:

You commented that most of your discussions with Oceania have been through their normal travel insurance provider.  Were you told to send payment to them, or to Oceania or to NCLH?

 

Still trying to figure out why they have been your primary contact point.  Most other people that I know that have been through this kind of situation (not many but a few) with other cruise lines have worked directly with the cruise line itself, and the only time the cruise lines recommended insurance provider have been involved have been when they had purchased one of their policies.  Those that had third party coverage worked directly with the cruise line.

Thank you for sticking with this. In answer to your question, No, were not told to send payment from either Oceania or NCLH, in fact the third party agent recommended against that as he could not guarantee we would get a receipt to present to our insurance companies for reimbursement. Neither of our insurance policies are through the cruise line but rather our own health insurance carrier and our traveler insurance independently purchased through our travel agent. We were told that a third party insurance processor is handling our claim and the confusion they had and miscommunication with the cruise line no doubt was not helpful in our quest for a resolution. Now it's just an issue of our getting a receipt of some kind from Oceania/NCL Holdings demonstrating they paid the bill.

[TRLD]

13 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for sticking with this. In answer to your question, No, were not told to send payment from either Oceania or NCLH, in fact the third party agent recommended against that as he could not guarantee we would get a receipt to present to our insurance companies for reimbursement. Neither of our insurance policies are through the cruise line but rather our own health insurance carrier and our traveler insurance independently purchased through our travel agent. We were told that a third party insurance processor is handling our claim and the confusion they had and miscommunication with the cruise line no doubt was not helpful in our quest for a resolution. Now it's just an issue of our getting a receipt of some kind from Oceania/NCL Holdings demonstrating they paid the bill.

Has  Oceania's third party insurance processor ever said why they are even involved?  In there experience is this the normal way Oceania and NCLH handles these claims?

 

The only thing that I keep coming back to is that Oceania sent it to their 3rd party processor, the 3rd part processor paid the PAF and started working with you.  Thus setting up the situation that Oceana cannot invoice you because you do not have an open balance with them since they did not directly pay the PAF.  Their third party insurance processor cannot invoice you because you do not have a policy with them.  Oceania cannot say that they paid the invoice because they did not pay it directly.

[GeezerCouple]

35 minutes ago, Psoque said:

If I were you, I would consider filing claim with the secondary insurance company now, before the 1 year limit is up.  There would not be any harm to your primary claim, but you could just contact the secondary insurance company and explain the situation.

 

Definitely this ^^ if there is a deadline looming with them, too.

 

Also, at this point, you have NOT been paid by any other insurer, and you can all-too-appropriately state that you aren't sure anything will be recovered from your primary insurer.

 

Then you've started the clock on time!

 

What a mess (understatement!

(Note:  I still can't quite follow it all, so IF you are writing a summary for someone else, you might try to stick with less elaborate bullet points.  Go through this complete thread for where some of us have either asked for more details, or, especially, misunderstood something.  You can always explain more if asked, but that might help with the initial overview of what is a real nightmare!)

GC

[Cali Hawaiian]

So sorry you and your partner went through this.  Can’t be easy to go through the trauma of seeing a loved one being medevaced away from you, then coming home to deal with this type of situation.  I always assumed that the toughest part would be dealing with the insurance company, never the cruise line.  That’s a shock.  Given the size of the claim, if they did pay it, you’d think they’d have better accounting.  Can’t be the first time Oceania has had to deal with a situation like this.  For a company that tries to sell you on service, to make you make this long and put you in jeopardy of losing 3 different types of insurance over what should be simple documentation is unconscionable.  We wish you well.

[Bongomauka]

7 hours ago, TRLD said:

Has  Oceania's third party insurance processor ever said why they are even involved?  In there experience is this the normal way Oceania and NCLH handles these claims?

 

The only thing that I keep coming back to is that Oceania sent it to their 3rd party processor, the 3rd part processor paid the PAF and started working with you.  Thus setting up the situation that Oceana cannot invoice you because you do not have an open balance with them since they did not directly pay the PAF.  Their third party insurance processor cannot invoice you because you do not have a policy with them.  Oceania cannot say that they paid the invoice because they did not pay it directly.

Thanks for spending some of your precious time considering our plight. You may be right about all it but let me put in a detail here that would make your eyes roll. Apparently Oceania/NCL Holdings didn’t pay the bill directly, they instead paid a port management company named Intercruise the monies and they in turn paid the Portuguese Air Force. How’s that for a long paper trail?

[TRLD]

Just now, Bongomauka said:

Thanks for spending some of your precious time considering our plight. You may be right about all it but let me put in a detail here that would make your eyes roll. Apparently Oceania/NCL Holdings didn’t pay the bill directly, they instead paid a port management company named Intercruise the monies and they in turn paid the Portuguese Air Force. How’s that for a long paper trail?

Not unusual for cruise lines to work through their port agents for in country items.  Just trying to figure out why they cannot easily generate an invoice for the amount.

[Bongomauka]

7 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Definitely this ^^ if there is a deadline looming with them, too.

 

Also, at this point, you have NOT been paid by any other insurer, and you can all-too-appropriately state that you aren't sure anything will be recovered from your primary insurer.

 

Then you've started the clock on time!

 

What a mess (understatement!

(Note:  I still can't quite follow it all, so IF you are writing a summary for someone else, you might try to stick with less elaborate bullet points.  Go through this complete thread for where some of us have either asked for more details, or, especially, misunderstood something.  You can always explain more if asked, but that might help with the initial overview of what is a real nightmare!)

GC

 

7 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Definitely this ^^ if there is a deadline looming with them, too.

 

Also, at this point, you have NOT been paid by any other insurer, and you can all-too-appropriately state that you aren't sure anything will be recovered from your primary insurer.

 

Then you've started the clock on time!

 

What a mess (understatement!

(Note:  I still can't quite follow it all, so IF you are writing a summary for someone else, you might try to stick with less elaborate bullet points.  Go through this complete thread for where some of us have either asked for more details, or, especially, misunderstood something.  You can always explain more if asked, but that might help with the initial overview of what is a real nightmare!)

GC

 Thanks for your support and suggestions. My head is constantly spinning with all the details and I have experienced the whole process so expecting someone else to grasp the whole mess would be wishful thinking. 

[Bongomauka]

7 hours ago, Cali Hawaiian said:

So sorry you and your partner went through this.  Can’t be easy to go through the trauma of seeing a loved one being medevaced away from you, then coming home to deal with this type of situation.  I always assumed that the toughest part would be dealing with the insurance company, never the cruise line.  That’s a shock.  Given the size of the claim, if they did pay it, you’d think they’d have better accounting.  Can’t be the first time Oceania has had to deal with a situation like this.  For a company that tries to sell you on service, to make you make this long and put you in jeopardy of losing 3 different types of insurance over what should be simple documentation is unconscionable.  We wish you well.

Thank you for sharing your kind words and thoughts. I can’t imagine someone older than us surviving both ordeals one after another. 

[Bongomauka]

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Not unusual for cruise lines to work through their port agents for in country items.  Just trying to figure out why they cannot easily generate an invoice for the amount.

From your mouth to God’s ears. 

[samiam0403]

On 1/13/2024 at 11:21 PM, Hlitner said:

I am trying to get myself around the fact that the Portuguese Air Force billed for their services.  In 50 years of extensive cruising, we have never heard of any military body (be it the Coast Guard or other branches) bill for transportation from a cruise ship to land.  I wonder if this means the US Coast Guard should bill any rescue of Portuguese as a retaliatory measure.   Several years ago, while on the Grand Med cruise (Prinsendam) we changed course and went out of our way to come to the rescue of a sinking Portuguese fishing trawler (well off the Azores).  Our HAL ship (under Captain Halle Gundersen) took charge of the rescue (there were several other commercial ships in the area) and ultimately took all the stranded crew (they were in a large life raft) aboard.  Within a couple of hour a Portuguese Coast Guard helicopter flew out to our ship (from the Azores) and winched all of that crew off our deck.  You can be sure that HAL did not send a bill to Portugal.  

 

My question to the OP is "have you received an actual bill from NCL?"  If not, put them on notice (in writing) that need to produce a bill (along with proof they actually made a payment to Portugal) within X number of days.  Make it clear that if NCL does not produce such documentation you will consider the matter permanently closed.   In your situation I would get an attorney to write such a letter, but an alternative is to simply write such a letter yourself.

 

Hank

 

 

I'm still reading through this thread, and I too am SHOCKED that OP received a bill for a military MEDEVAC. Up until 2022, I spent 8 years, as active duty and then civilian, coordinating exactly this type of rescue (quite a few on cruise ships, fishing vessels, tankers etc), and the objectives are never billed for these rescues. I'm half tempted to start digging into the UN documentation that I've trained on, because I am stunned.

[Bongomauka]

2 hours ago, samiam0403 said:

I'm still reading through this thread, and I too am SHOCKED that OP received a bill for a military MEDEVAC. Up until 2022, I spent 8 years, as active duty and then civilian, coordinating exactly this type of rescue (quite a few on cruise ships, fishing vessels, tankers etc), and the objectives are never billed for these rescues. I'm half tempted to start digging into the UN documentation that I've trained on, because I am stunned.

Thank you for post samian0403. Looks like I missed your original posting until your second posting of it with the recent comment, sorry about that. No we did not receive a bill directly from the Portuguese Air Force but received a copy of it from Oceania/NCL Holdings. If we did, that would have simplified the whole process as we would have paid it and made a claim to our 3 insurance policies which would have covered some or all of it. It then would have been settled many less stressful months ago. BTW the bill for the Medivac was north of $100,000 so continue to be stunned as we are we even less experience in these matters as yourself.

[S4POPO]

20 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for sticking with this. In answer to your question, No, were not told to send payment from either Oceania or NCLH, in fact the third party agent recommended against that as he could not guarantee we would get a receipt to present to our insurance companies for reimbursement. Neither of our insurance policies are through the cruise line but rather our own health insurance carrier and our traveler insurance independently purchased through our travel agent. We were told that a third party insurance processor is handling our claim and the confusion they had and miscommunication with the cruise line no doubt was not helpful in our quest for a resolution. Now it's just an issue of our getting a receipt of some kind from Oceania/NCL Holdings demonstrating they paid the bill.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the issue.  Are you saying that the insurance company will reimburse you ~$100k simply with proof of Oceania paying the medivac bill?  Without the costs being passed on to you (via separate bill from Oceania)?  In this scenario, you make a pretty penny if Oceania never bills you.  I apologize if this was discussed in a previous post and I missed something.

[samiam0403]

4 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for post samian0403. Looks like I missed your original posting until your second posting of it with the recent comment, sorry about that. No we did not receive a bill directly from the Portuguese Air Force but received a copy of it from Oceania/NCL Holdings. If we did, that would have simplified the whole process as we would have paid it and made a claim to our 3 insurance policies which would have covered some or all of it. It then would have been settled many less stressful months ago. BTW the bill for the Medivac was north of $100,000 so continue to be stunned as we are we even less experience in these matters as yourself.

I feel bad for not saying this earlier, but I'm glad the MEDEVAC had a good outcome - health-wise! I was on the Marina when it happened and definitely sent up some prayers for y'all!

 

I've been reading as much as I can to try to figure out the legality of them sending a bill - everything I'm seeing says that a signatory to the IMO Conventions (and Portugal is one) won't charge for a rescue. Sadly, since I'm no longer at the job, I don't have access to some of the UN documents that would spell that out. I've put in a request with some contacts at my old unit for the exact document and phrasing - will pass it along if/when I hear anything back. 

[LSuzQ]

So sorry for your experience! Is anyone else shocked that Oceania/NCL Holdings (or THEIR insurer) would pay this bill in the first place?

[Cali Hawaiian]

With 7,000 views, this post caught the eyes of myself and several of my friends.  We’ve been watching from the sideline, but decided to jump in.  My friends and I are all past passengers of NCL,Oceania, Regent, and all seniors.  We, like you have always enjoyed the onboard service of especially Oceania & Regent.  I’m glad you had a good experience on the ship and kind of you to recognize a number of people who helped you and your partner.  The “back office,”  issues you’ve had to deal with on the other hand are shocking.  The number of departments you’ve had to directly contact and follow up on are ridiculous.  You’re insurer from Kaiser isn’t going to care, they’re  ready to pay.  They aren’t going to chase down an invoice from Oceania.  What’s amazing to me is that the departments you listed from Oceania “promissory notes,” etc. don’t seem to care either.  I bet they’d feel differently if they themselves were staring at a $120,000 bill. We’ve always purchased travel insurance, but fortunately never had to use it.  Your post has given us all pause.  Thanks for the warning.

[Bongomauka]

12 hours ago, samiam0403 said:

I feel bad for not saying this earlier, but I'm glad the MEDEVAC had a good outcome - health-wise! I was on the Marina when it happened and definitely sent up some prayers for y'all!

 

I've been reading as much as I can to try to figure out the legality of them sending a bill - everything I'm seeing says that a signatory to the IMO Conventions (and Portugal is one) won't charge for a rescue. Sadly, since I'm no longer at the job, I don't have access to some of the UN documents that would spell that out. I've put in a request with some contacts at my old unit for the exact document and phrasing - will pass it along if/when I hear anything back. 

Now I remember you from the Marina roll call. How is your new life in Paris? I hope the move was as painless and seamless as you’d hoped. 

[Bongomauka]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:10 AM, S4POPO said:

I am still trying to wrap my head around the issue.  Are you saying that the insurance company will reimburse you ~$100k simply with proof of Oceania paying the medivac bill?  Without the costs being passed on to you (via separate bill from Oceania)?  In this scenario, you make a pretty penny if Oceania never bills you.  I apologize if this was discussed in a previous post and I missed something.

Sorry for the confusion. Our primary healthcare insurance provider will reimburse Oceania directly, not us. We received a bill through Oceania’s third party insurance processor but was told by the agent not to pay it directly as he couldn’t guarantee that we would get a receipt that we would need to get reimbursed ourselves. BTW it was another cruise payment more than $100K, hence our stress level. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

9 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Sorry for the confusion. Our primary healthcare insurance provider will reimburse Oceania directly, not us. We received a bill through Oceania’s third party insurance processor but was told by the agent not to pay it directly as he couldn’t guarantee that we would get a receipt that we would need to get reimbursed ourselves. BTW it was another cruise payment more than $100K, hence our stress level. 

Okay, you’ve done your best to explain it all. Might I suggest that, even though your many many replies are still missing/adding info and the thread grows more confusing each day, it might be a better idea to hold off on posting until you can report on the actual outcome?

[broberts]

8 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Okay, you’ve done your best to explain it all. Might I suggest that, even though your many many replies are still missing/adding info and the thread grows more confusing each day, it might be a better idea to hold off on posting until you can report on the actual outcome?

 

The only people that are confused are those that want to be. From the very first post the OP has been clear about the problem.