Roger de Haan , on November Caribbean cruise, any good questions

[Cruise-Cat]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

Saga have to offer late discounts because their pricing strategy is basically a very bad business model.

 

The say book early to get best price. They start off offering cabins that are not exactly cheap but offer good value for the qualityyou get. 

 

These are snapped  up for the lower decks at "35% discount" . Prices then go up rapidly. Much more rapidly than other cruise lines

I agree that the discount reduction could be gentler. I also think they could offer Unassigned cabins as a standard category (e.g.U)  from much earlier, but maybe apply the same discount structure so there is an incentive to book Unassigned earlier rather than later?

 

I've noticed that other cruise lines offer unassigned or a variation thereof.  Many other cruise lines also offer "Late Deals" in order to fill cabins.  

 

It really depends on what Saga's objective is - to maximise early bookings, occupancy, revenue or price satisfaction.

 

Also worth bearing in mind that many cruisers will not be quite as forensic about the pricing - those "In the Know" will be patting themselves on the back for getting 35% discount by pre-registering

 

[JoJo1947]

On 8/16/2024 at 6:56 PM, Cruise-Cat said:

How far off is your departure date? Seems like a good result 👍

7 days

[Windsurfboy]

Saga has really only two main objectives

 

1)Total revenue per ship and profit

 

2) Customer  Satisfaction 

 

The first is achieved by not selling at a discount.

 

Then the greater the revenue the more they can spend on quality and Customer satisfaction. 

[nosapphire]

On 8/15/2024 at 5:10 PM, Windsurfboy said:

Roger de Haan is doing a Q&A on November Caribbean cruise.

 

I know quite a few on this platform are on that cruise. What should we ask him. 

 

My number one thought at moment is about the price promise,  and the increasing use of guarantee fares. Doesn't he think that Saga are training people to wait for guarantees,  which can't be good practice.

 

Surely a pricing model , that yes benefits early  booking,  but that doesn't rise so rapidly, so  putting off customers who don't want  to book so early, would fill up the ships. Rather than current model a rush of early bookings, then everyone sits for guarantees. 

 

Yes I'll have to be more succinct. 

 

My other bug bear is all the included  tours are panoramic , why don't  Saga  have other types of included  tours, eg walking tours , a large proportion of their passengers don't  want to sit on a coach for three hours , and so never use the included tours.

Going back to the original question...

I am not on this cruise, but Pleeeease try and find out whether paper maps can be reinstated.

Or at least adequate information to find an (open) Tourist Office to get a map.Saga used to be really good about giving information for those who simply want to go for a local stroll, and it seems odd that they do so much so well, but fall down so badly when it comes to port information (Are the tours dept now outside agencies, also trying to maximise profits?).

And yes, point out that the current marketing system has given those who normally book early the idea of now waiting until the last minute to book - which will create a vicious circle.

 

[Wacktle]

19 hours ago, Cruise-Cat said:

I've noticed that other cruise lines offer unassigned or a variation thereof.  Many other cruise lines also offer "Late Deals" in order to fill cabins.  

 

Also worth bearing in mind that many cruisers will not be quite as forensic about the pricing - those "In the Know" will be patting themselves on the back for getting 35% discount by pre-registering

 

Marella (which we have used) charge extra to book a cabin. I think some lines have lower fares for those who don't want "extras" such as a specific cabin, free shuttle buses, etc.

 

Several years ago, friends booked late onto a 7 night Norway cruise that we'd booked at 35% discount. They had no idea that their fare was £900pp more than ours.  

[Lady Meer]

Windsurfboy - I think there are too many cruises to the Canaries and personally would like to see itineraries with more Scottish islands, Isle of Man and Isles of Scilly. Also, the itineraries need to be on sale sooner - by the time they are advertised we’ve usually committed to other holidays.

 

Thanks.

[Windsurfboy]

Summarising issues

 

Pricing  strategy that creates need for too many last minute offers.

 

Only Panoramic excursions included ,  targeting only some of passengers. 

 

Why did they drop Amex

 

Why stop paper maps

 

Will they introduce fly cruises.

 

Why launch so late , up to year after competition.

 

Finally,  another from my perspective.  Why are their inclusive wines only drinkable,  whilst for another £5 a bottle , or £35 a week per cabin on cruise cost , could have good wine. This opens up the bigger discussion Why go all inclusive? 

 

Hopefully others on the cruise will pick some of these up, I  certainly can't ask all of them.

[nosapphire]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

Hopefully others on the cruise will pick some of these up, I  certainly can't ask all of them.

It might work if you draft up your list of questions and then ask the Cruise Director in advance if they can be given to Sir Roger for consideration and possible answer on the day. Say that you are asking on behalf of members of the Saga section on the Cruise Critic forum. Pretty sure they are all questions that others who are on the cruise but not on CC would be interested in.

 

[Windsurfboy]

9 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

It might work if you draft up your list of questions and then ask the Cruise Director in advance if they can be given to Sir Roger for consideration and possible answer on the day. Say that you are asking on behalf of members of the Saga section on the Cruise Critic forum. Pretty sure they are all questions that others who are on the cruise but not on CC would be interested in.

 

 

A good idea , to do it justice will need a couple of hours to draft  them all out in a coherent but concise manner. 

[JoJo1947]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

Summarising issues

 

Pricing  strategy that creates need for too many last minute offers.

 

Only Panoramic excursions included ,  targeting only some of passengers. 

 

Why did they drop Amex

 

Why stop paper maps

 

Will they introduce fly cruises.

 

Why launch so late , up to year after competition.

 

Finally,  another from my perspective.  Why are their inclusive wines only drinkable,  whilst for another £5 a bottle , or £35 a week per cabin on cruise cost , could have good wine. This opens up the bigger discussion Why go all inclusive? 

 

Hopefully others on the cruise will pick some of these up, I  certainly can't ask all of them.

Fly cruises with the next ship likely to be expedition. Not everyone drinks alcohol!  I'm not paying extra . Let's have a balance and have more selection of non alcoholic . In other words I'm happy and consider myself lucky  to be able to cruise. Just think how lucky you are too. 10 years sailing with Saga,seen changes for the better and content .

[david05]

Pricing - the latest email from Saga is offering a guarantee fare for the January Caribbean & Central America cruise of £11,799 per person. The March 2024 brochure shows the fall fare for a standard cabin of £23,940, discount that by 35% and you get a fare of £15,561. OK that may not have been the lowest fare originally as pre-registered customers may have taken all the lowest grade cabins at the maximum discount prior to the brochure going to print (and there might have been an earlier brochure as I don't know when it went on sale). However, for any couple who booked at the time the March brochure came out they could now have a guarantee cabin for at least £3,762 less than they paid per person (assuming my maths is correct!). Ridiculous or what? It's certainly making us think if we wish to book early anymore.

Edited August 21 by david05

[Windsurfboy]

43 minutes ago, david05 said:

Pricing - the latest email from Saga is offering a guarantee fare for the January Caribbean & Central America cruise of £11,799 per person. The March 2024 brochure shows the fall fare for a standard cabin of £23,940, discount that by 35% and you get a fare of £15,561. OK that may not have been the lowest fare originally as pre-registered customers may have taken all the lowest grade cabins at the maximum discount prior to the brochure going to print (and there might have been an earlier brochure as I don't know when it went on sale). However, for any couple who booked at the time the March brochure came out they could now have a guarantee cabin for at least £3,762 less than they paid per person (assuming my maths is correct!). Ridiculous or what? It's certainly making us think if we wish to book early anymore.

 

If you look at prices online and work back on an k cabin on deck E it was £13100 at launch. So not as bad , but still £1300 is worth it. Probably get a much better cabin

[Cruise-Cat]

Currently the lowest prices on SD151 (Central America) are

Guarantee £11,999 - base £18,999 - disc.30% - EBI £1,300

 

Grade L £14,936  - base £18,749 - disc15% - EBI £1,000

 

Grade K £16,100  - base £18,000 - disc 5% - EBI £1,000

 

[david05]

52 minutes ago, Cruise-Cat said:

Currently the lowest prices on SD151 (Central America) are

Guarantee £11,999 - base £18,999 - disc.30% - EBI £1,300

 

Grade L £14,936  - base £18,749 - disc15% - EBI £1,000

 

Grade K £16,100  - base £18,000 - disc 5% - EBI £1,000

 

 

Special Britannia club offer £11,799 for guarantee cabin.

SAVE UP TO £2,200 PER PERSON FOR A LIMITED TIME ON CARIBBEAN AND CENTRAL AMERICA DISCOVERY   Departing on January 6, 2025 aboard Spirit of Discovery   49 nights all-inclusive from £11,799‡ per person   Call to book   Call your dedicated Britannia Club line on 08‍0‍8 1‍3‍4 3‍02‍7 to book

[david05]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

If you look at prices online and work back on an k cabin on deck E it was £13100 at launch. So not as bad , but still £1300 is worth it. Probably get a much better cabin

Thanks. Looking at the prices online, our favoured deck C cabins were £14,391 at launch so a guarantee now would be a saving of £2,592 per person and obviously greater if booked when the discount had reduced. I'm not sure that getting a cabin on our favoured deck as opposed to pot luck is worth over £5,000 for a couple!

Edited August 21 by david05

[Kohima]

Surely a 49 day cruise with so many sea days was never going to sell out. Apart from the price element, many people cannot commit to being away from home for so long for various reasons. Guarantee cabins and/or fly cruise segments were always going to be needed to fill the ship. However, for some people, the location of their cabin (nearness to lifts, position on ship, deck level etc) on such a long cruise is very important so would never consider a guarantee cabin.

If someone wants to go on a particular cruise on a particular date, it would not be advisable to rely on guarantee cabins being available nearer to sailing as this is not always the case. Obviously this does not apply to Canaries cruises as they are so frequent!
 

[Cruise-Cat]

39 minutes ago, Kohima said:

If someone wants to go on a particular cruise on a particular date, it would not be advisable to rely on guarantee cabins being available nearer to sailing as this is not always the case

We booked a guarantee on Central America at the end of June - over 6 months before departure date of January 6th, so not really a late booking.

We hadn’t pre registered for the 2025 Jan-April cruises so this was probably about 7 months after general release. 

Looking at discount rates and cabin availability is a fairly good indication of whether or not guarantee prices are likely to be offered.

 

The lower price was a significant factor in our decision to book (in conjunction with the timing resulting in missing much of the English winter weather and the 90/180 rule restricting travel to Spain between October and April)

[Windsurfboy]

None of the longer (30 days) transatlantic cruises sell out , many people (not us) just can't take 7 days on ship in a row and like  to break it up with ports, so the problem doesn't seem to be so bad for longer med holidays.

 

Interesting to see if they offer this 49 day cruise in segments.

 

Anyway back to guarantees.  If the original launch price makes a reasonable return, then selling for a few thousand less must be obviously less profitable.  In the end this will mean Saga counting the pennies,  looking for savings. So ultimately not just annoying,  not good for service.  I want the service I  paid for, not the service level dictated by the lowest prices. If these become the norm service and quality will suffer. 

[Cruise-Cat]

50 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 If the original launch price makes a reasonable return, then selling for a few thousand less must be obviously less profitable.  In the end this will mean Saga counting the pennies,  looking for savings. So ultimately not just annoying,  not good for service.  I want the service I  paid for, not the service level dictated by the lowest prices. If these become the norm service and quality will suffer. 

From some of the previous comments it seems that the E deck cabins with 35% discount are a similar price to guarantee prices - obviously people want to achieve the lowest possible price or they wouldn’t pre-register.

 

Once a certain number (undetermined here) of cabins are sold Saga will have covered their fixed costs - fuel, staff, entertainment, port fees etc plus marginal costs for those passengers(food,drink,laundry). At which point any additional cabin sale proceeds, after deducting marginal costs per cabin,  will be additional profit for that cruise.

 

We’ve booked (pre-registered) deluxe cabins for other cruises in 2025 and had suites on our last two cruises. But, I just can’t bring myself to pay in the region of £50k for a cruise - even 49 nights!
 

[Windsurfboy]

Clearly  selling  guarantees once fixed costs have been covered is better than an empty cabin for the bottom line.  However selling at regular price should be the target and would be better. 

 

Saga should be asking  why do we have to sell as guarantees. 

 

It's not the money that puts me off long cruises, 30 days is our limit.

I do baulk at £50k for a holiday just seems wrong , but logically,  once  you've helped  kids buy house, better to spend it that let Rachel Reeves have it.

 

It also agrieves me that having spent £30k on a suite for Caribbean,  half are unsold and given to those who paid much less. Price promise doesn't come into play.

 

[FannyLiz]

I’m curious as to why the lower deck cabins are cheaper than the higher deck ones ?  Given an uninterrupted view and no entertainment venues above or below you in either, I would have thought the lower the deck the less likely to be affected by the motion of the ship than those higher up so the better. 
 

( I loved sea days: no rush to get up, entertainment, activities or company if you want it, time to read a book or the newspapers at leisure, lovely meals, time for an afternoon nap, swim or spa, no nagging appointments or rushing around etc etc.What’s not to like ?)

[Kohima]

What's not to like, for some of us, is too many sea days, especially when that number is disproportionate to the number of port days. Many people go on cruises to travel and visit places. Sea days are good for rest days in between ports but not for a week at a time.

[Windsurfboy]

46 minutes ago, FannyLiz said:

I’m curious as to why the lower deck cabins are cheaper than the higher deck ones ?  Given an uninterrupted view and no entertainment venues above or below you in either, I would have thought the lower the deck the less likely to be affected by the motion of the ship than those higher up so the better. 
 

( I loved sea days: no rush to get up, entertainment, activities or company if you want it, time to read a book or the newspapers at leisure, lovely meals, time for an afternoon nap, swim or spa, no nagging appointments or rushing around etc etc.What’s not to like ?)

 

Like you love sea days.

 

Agree,  I can't  understand why higher decks are so expensive,  Sun deck 53% dearer than E. A ridiculous premium, nearly 10% per deck.  

 

Optimum is C or D good views , more stable only cabins above or below 

 

On most other lines A deck would be cheaper as underneath the public decks and noise from above. Most lines decks above or below public decks 5 to 10% cheaper. Rest same.  Saga 10% increase per deck is unique,   rest of industry is wrong?.. This could be a question. 

Edited August 22 by Windsurfboy

[Spence55]

Regarding pricing, I seem to remember before the insurance side went pear-shaped, and the balance sheet didn’t have those large debts, things were somewhat simpler. You booked early - you got the best prices. Now it’s all smoke and mirrors and seems designed to be confusing.That’s a point that might be made to RdeH.

 

I agree with those puzzled by the premium for upper decks. On Deck A there are issues with noise from furniture being moved early in the morning on the Lido deck; I heard someone complain they were woken in the early hours by a band (Amen Korner) rehearsing in the Britannia Lounge; and the veranda is a smoking area. And that’s before the issue of swaying in rough seas. 
 

If we ever do return to Saga it will be a late booking at the lowest possible price. And the itinerary will need interesting ports with the minimum of sea days. As an earlier poster said, it’s irksome to pay a lot for a suite to hear someone crow they’ve been upgraded to one having paid considerably less than you have. 

[Kohima]

Unfortunately, differential pricing is irksome in many areas of life these days: airlines, trains, ferries, hotels, shop sales, supermarkets etc. Frustrating when you have paid full price, great when you have a bargain.