Passenger Vessel Service Act

[pedirn]

Can someone please refresh me on the passenger vessel service act?   I know we had to change a cruise a few years ago when we booked B2B cruises that were in violation of this act.   What we are looking at is a cruise from Boston to Quebec City then staying on for next cruise Quebec City to Ft. Lauderdale.   I think this might be another violation and wouldn’t be allowed.  Yes I know I can call Princess but have little faith in what they say as on previous B2B they booked it even thought it was in violation so I am relying on my cruise buddies to set me straight. TIA.

[reedprincess]

PSVA dictates that foreign flagged passenger vessels cannot transport passengers between two different US ports without a DISTANT foreign port.

Canada, MX and much do the Caribbean are not DISTANT foreign ports.

 

On closed loop cruises, ie from/to same US ports, foreign flagged vessels can transport passengers with a stop at a NEAR foreign port.. much of the Caribbean, MX and Canada apply .  

 

[MelbourneFloridaCruiser]

Yes, that is a PSA Violation.  As Canada, US, and Mexico are part of the North American Continent, traveling from us to Canada means the ship does not go to a distant foreign port.  When traveling from Boston to Quebec and then Quebec to Ft. Lauderdale, there is not distant foreign port.  HOWEVER, if the Boston to Quebec City voyage has an overnight in Quebec, you could disembark the 1st night and get a hotel.  Then you could take the 2nd voyage because you were off the ship for 24 hours. 

[memoak]

12 minutes ago, MelbourneFloridaCruiser said:

Yes, that is a PSA Violation.  As Canada, US, and Mexico are part of the North American Continent, traveling from us to Canada means the ship does not go to a distant foreign port.  When traveling from Boston to Quebec and then Quebec to Ft. Lauderdale, there is not distant foreign port.  HOWEVER, if the Boston to Quebec City voyage has an overnight in Quebec, you could disembark the 1st night and get a hotel.  Then you could take the 2nd voyage because you were off the ship for 24 hours. 

We have B2B cruises in 2025   Boston to Quebec City and Quebec City to Boston booked through my CVP. No issue

 

[peety3]

Three legal options:

1) Start in a foreign country and finish in US, or vice versa.

2) Round-trip to/from a US port, with a visit to a foreign country.

3) Start in one US port, visit a distant foreign country (aka not North America, possibly not even South America), end in a different US port.

 

Otherwise, you must get off the ship for at least 24 hours.I have heard, but have not verified, that if you were ever lucky enough to have two different ships from the same cruise line in the same port (e.g. Vancouver BC), you can't legally travel on the same cruise line from one US port to that foreign port and merely change ships before continuing to a different US port unless you were actually off the cruise line completely for at least 24 hours. It's rare that you'd have that opportunity anyway.

[memoak]

29 minutes ago, MelbourneFloridaCruiser said:

Yes, that is a PSA Violation.  As Canada, US, and Mexico are part of the North American Continent, traveling from us to Canada means the ship does not go to a distant foreign port.  When traveling from Boston to Quebec and then Quebec to Ft. Lauderdale, there is not distant foreign port.  HOWEVER, if the Boston to Quebec City voyage has an overnight in Quebec, you could disembark the 1st night and get a hotel.  Then you could take the 2nd voyage because you were off the ship for 24 hours. 

Then how do they allow Vancouver -Whittier- Vancouver which we recently did. I do not believe this is a violation. And see my other post that I was able to book Boston-Wuebec-Boston for 2025

 

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, peety3 said:

Three legal options:

1) Start in a foreign country and finish in US, or vice versa.

2) Round-trip to/from a US port, with a visit to a foreign country.

3) Start in one US port, visit a distant foreign country (aka not North America, possibly not even South America), end in a different US port.

 

Otherwise, you must get off the ship for at least 24 hours.I have heard, but have not verified, that if you were ever lucky enough to have two different ships from the same cruise line in the same port (e.g. Vancouver BC), you can't legally travel on the same cruise line from one US port to that foreign port and merely change ships before continuing to a different US port unless you were actually off the cruise line completely for at least 24 hours. It's rare that you'd have that opportunity anyway.

Please see my 2nd post

 

[memoak]

4 minutes ago, peety3 said:

Three legal options:

1) Start in a foreign country and finish in US, or vice versa.

2) Round-trip to/from a US port, with a visit to a foreign country.

3) Start in one US port, visit a distant foreign country (aka not North America, possibly not even South America), end in a different US port.

 

Otherwise, you must get off the ship for at least 24 hours.I have heard, but have not verified, that if you were ever lucky enough to have two different ships from the same cruise line in the same port (e.g. Vancouver BC), you can't legally travel on the same cruise line from one US port to that foreign port and merely change ships before continuing to a different US port unless you were actually off the cruise line completely for at least 24 hours. It's rare that you'd have that opportunity anyway.

I do disagree as we often sail Vancouver- Whittier-Vancouver on the same ship. This is very typical 

[reedprincess]

5 minutes ago, memoak said:

I do disagree as we often sail Vancouver- Whittier-Vancouver on the same ship. This is very typical 

You do realize that Vancouver isn't in the US, right?

You're boarding in Canada and disembarking in Canada.

 

The legal team at Princess that catches the PVSA violations in advance of sailing,. generally only do a couple months at a time.

 

And you're route is Boston round-trip - embarking and disembarking at the same US port.  Not a violation.

 

hTe OP is boarding in Boston and disembarking in Fort Lauderdale, without visiting a DISTANT foreign port, a different itinerary than you're sailing..

And it would be a violation, except potentially if they're willing to completely disembark on arrival in Quebec City, and be off the ship for 24+ hours... That would clear the violation... 

Edited Friday at 10:01 PM by reedprincess

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, reedprincess said:

You do realize that Vancouver isn't in the US, right?

You're boarding in Canada and disembarking in Canada.

 

The legal team at Princess that catches the PVSA violations in advance of sailing,. generally only do a couple months at a time.

Assuming you're sailing summer 2025, given the route, a violation wouldn't be flagged til early 2025, generally speaking.

 

 

As the OP is boarding in Boston and disembarking in Fort Lauderdale, without visiting a DISTANT foreign port - it's a violation, except potentially if they're willing to completely disembark on arrival in Quebec City, and be off the ship for 24+ hours... That would clear the violation...

I do believe that my CVP knows of what she does  Many people sail on these cruises all the time   The back to back has a2 day layover in Quebec how would they know where I  slept ?

[skynight]

You can not board in Boston and disembark in Ft. Lauderdale unless the ship visits either Aruba, Bonaire or Curacao. I have not actually looked at the itinerary, but am thinking the ship does not stop at any of these islands. You can board in Quebec and disembark in Ft. Lauderdale as that is a sailing from Canada to the U.S.

Look at the sailing this way. If you board in one U.S. port and disembark in a different U.S. port then the ship must visit a distant foreign port. IN this cas the ABC islands are the closest distant foreign ports. 

[reedprincess]

5 minutes ago, memoak said:

I do believe that my CVP knows of what she does  Many people sail on these cruises all the time   The back to back has a2 day layover in Quebec how would they know where I  slept ?

And you're not wrong.

Boston to Boston is a roundtrip, closed loop sailing - you're boarding in Boston and disembarking in Boston.

 

The OP is boarding in Boston and disembarking in Fort Lauderdale - they're traveling between two different US ports, and not visiting a DISTANT foreign port in between - this, it's a violation of the PVSA.

 

Not sure what's so unclear or difficult for you to grasp. You're talking about a completely different route/itinerary than the OP is asking about.

 

And CVPs get it wrong every year, FWIW.  

Edited Friday at 10:09 PM by reedprincess

[MelbourneFloridaCruiser]

Expand  

We have B2B cruises in 2025   Boston to Quebec City and Quebec City to Boston booked through my CVP. No issue.

 

That is not an issue as you are basically sailing round trip Boston.  The PSA Violation is Boston to Quebec City and then Quebec City to Ft Lauderdale.

[memoak]

1 minute ago, MelbourneFloridaCruiser said:

Expand  

We have B2B cruises in 2025   Boston to Quebec City and Quebec City to Boston booked through my CVP. No issue.

 

That is not an issue as you are basically sailing round trip Boston.  The PSA Violation is Boston to Quebec City and then Quebec City to Ft Lauderdale.

So the 2 night layover in Quebec does not count ?

[MelbourneFloridaCruiser]

As long as you officially do a route sector to disembark the ship in Quebec and get a hotel, you would be fine.  However if you do not officially go through immigration and disembark the ship, have 2 nights in Quebec still is a PSA if sailing from Boston to Quebec and then Quebec to Ft. Lauderdale.   No distant foreign ports.

[reedprincess]

15 minutes ago, memoak said:

So the 2 night layover in Quebec does not count ?

It would only count if the passengers actually completely disembark, as in get an official route deviation, spend 24 or more hours off the ship completely and re-embark as new passengers...

As the itinerary has an actual overnight as part of the official itinerary, just going off on their own wouldn't satisfy the requirements - Princess would need to prove they'd completely officially disembarked, been off the ship for 24 hours plus, etc..

 

Edited Friday at 10:29 PM by reedprincess

[VibeGuy]

I have to agree that a formal route sector might actually work here in this one particular situation, given that it’s possible to have a 24:01 period off the ship.  In fact, a formal route sector may not even have been required if the departure from Quebec City was the usual evening-day-two. 
 

Arrival is 0900 on the 18 October.  Voyage end is 0600 on 19 October. 
 

Voyage to FLL starts 11:00 19 October.  But on this itinerary they aren’t overnighting after boarding.  That’s unfortunate. 
 

Convincing the compliance department at Princess might be a whole other thing.  But I think it’s legit from a PVSA perspective  to RS out the last night in Quebec City.  

[Cruise Raider]

2 hours ago, pedirn said:

Can someone please refresh me on the passenger vessel service act?   I know we had to change a cruise a few years ago when we booked B2B cruises that were in violation of this act.   What we are looking at is a cruise from Boston to Quebec City then staying on for next cruise Quebec City to Ft. Lauderdale.   I think this might be another violation and wouldn’t be allowed.  Yes I know I can call Princess but have little faith in what they say as on previous B2B they booked it even thought it was in violation so I am relying on my cruise buddies to set me straight. TIA.

Unfortunately, this is a violation of the PVSA as others have indicated. Even if you agree to disembark and get back on the ship the next day, I have some doubts that the cruise line will actually allow this.  To save yourself some hassles, I would look at a different itinerary. 

If you change ships up in Canada, you would probably be ok but even with that, we were informed that we could go on a sailing from Seattle to Vancouver and back to Seattle, take the bus from Seattle up to Vancouver and take another ship down to Los Angeles without an overnight stay, even though we’d be on two separate ships.  I know some will argue with me on this but our booking could not be made.  I’m not going to argue the point knowing it would turn into a big hassle.  Not the way I wish to spend my vacation without any guarantee I would win that battle.  

 

[OccasionalSanta]

2 hours ago, peety3 said:

Three legal options:

1) Start in a foreign country and finish in US, or vice versa.

2) Round-trip to/from a US port, with a visit to a foreign country.

3) Start in one US port, visit a distant foreign country (aka not North America, possibly not even South America), end in a different US port.

For the record, South America counts as a distant port as the Panama canal cruises between Ft. Lauderdale and Los Angeles (both directions) frequently stop in Cartagena, Colombia. It also looks like there are some upcoming ones that are using Aruba or Curacao as their distant foreign port.

[OccasionalSanta]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

3 hours ago, peety3 said:

Three legal options:

1) Start in a foreign country and finish in US, or vice versa.

2) Round-trip to/from a US port, with a visit to a foreign country.

3) Start in one US port, visit a distant foreign country (aka not North America, possibly not even South America), end in a different US port.

 

Otherwise, you must get off the ship for at least 24 hours.I have heard, but have not verified, that if you were ever lucky enough to have two different ships from the same cruise line in the same port (e.g. Vancouver BC), you can't legally travel on the same cruise line from one US port to that foreign port and merely change ships before continuing to a different US port unless you were actually off the cruise line completely for at least 24 hours. It's rare that you'd have that opportunity anyway.

Expand  

I do disagree as we often sail Vancouver- Whittier-Vancouver on the same ship. This is very typical 

Option 1 can be modified to "Start and/or end in a non-U.S. port" 

[reedprincess]

52 minutes ago, OccasionalSanta said:

Option 1 can be modified to "Start and/or end in a non-U.S. port" 

That would be an irrelevant point as PSVA doesn't apply to cruises that don't start or end in the US... 

Start in Vancouver and end in Japan, for example, no PVSA involved.... Start in Quebec City and end in Vancouver, PVSA is irrelevant...

[Torfamm]

4 hours ago, memoak said:

We have B2B cruises in 2025   Boston to Quebec City and Quebec City to Boston booked through my CVP. No issue

 

No, of course not. You are embarking and disembarking in the same city.
 

The poster is asking about traveling from one US port to a different US port. That would be a violation of the PVSA.

[Torfamm]

4 hours ago, memoak said:

Then how do they allow Vancouver -Whittier- Vancouver which we recently did. I do not believe this is a violation. 

 

Vancouver is not in the United States. The PVSA would not apply. The question is about traveling from one US port to another US port.

[MelbourneFloridaCruiser]

2 hours ago, reedprincess said:

That would be an irrelevant point as PSVA doesn't apply to cruises that don't start or end in the US... 

Start in Vancouver and end in Japan, for example, no PVSA involved.... Start in Quebec City and end in Vancouver, PVSA is irrelevant...

Please know that Canada has their own version of the PSAV.  You cannot embark in Vancouver B.C. and disembark in Victoria, B.C.  

You cannot travel between two Canadian Cities without a Distant Foreign port as well.

[MelbourneFloridaCruiser]

6 hours ago, reedprincess said:

It would only count if the passengers actually completely disembark, as in get an official route deviation, spend 24 or more hours off the ship completely and re-embark as new passengers...

As the itinerary has an actual overnight as part of the official itinerary, just going off on their own wouldn't satisfy the requirements - Princess would need to prove they'd completely officially disembarked, been off the ship for 24 hours plus, etc..

 

As long as they do an official Route Sector and disembark the day they arrive in Quebec City, spend the night in a hotel, and then embark in Quebec City the next day,  there is no PSAV.  They have officially gone through Customs in Canada.  The also do not need to link the bookings fhen.