Star Princess fire investigation - update

[lisa&david]

From MAIB latest news:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/latest_news/star_princess.cfm

 

Update 12 April

The on site investigation phase has now been completed and investigators are continuing to analyse data collected from the scene and reports from passengers. In the light of this incident, the investigation bodies have met representatives from the cruise industry and have agreed both short and long term measures to raise even further the very high safety standards within the industry. The MAIB’s investigation report into this incident will be published in late autumn 2006.

[LARGIN]

Thanks for the info..

[Iamthesea]

Late autumn? Just after my cruise on the CB. Sure would like to know before I cruise.

[Zebboriah]

Late autumn? Just after my cruise on the CB. Sure would like to know before I cruise.

 

Would it make a difference in you going or not? It's just like any transportation disaster, they do happen and it is no good that it does but it usually doesn't happen again especially anytime soon. Feel safe knowing that Princess is extremely safe and even as bad as the damage was, there was no fatality tied directly to the the fire. I just got back from the Sapphire and remembered waking up at 3am thinking "wow, this is the time that it happened" but then went back to sleep knowing that the chance of it happening again is extremely unlikely.

[Iamthesea]

No, it would not make a difference on whether we cruise or not.. ;)

 

It would just be nice to know if it were electrical or just an accident. You are correct in that the likelihood of this happening again is low, but if you have ever been involved in a fire, you'd be curious and more careful when it involves a fire.

 

there was no fatality tied directly to the the fire.

The wife of the deceased says that her DH died of smoke inhalation. I don't know if there was an official report recorded about the exact caused of death. The rumors that he had a heart attack were just after the fire and reported by crew.

[Host CJSKIDS]

Would it make a difference in you going or not? It's just like any transportation disaster, they do happen and it is no good that it does but it usually doesn't happen again especially anytime soon. Feel safe knowing that Princess is extremely safe and even as bad as the damage was, there was no fatality tied directly to the the fire. I just got back from the Sapphire and remembered waking up at 3am thinking "wow, this is the time that it happened" but then went back to sleep knowing that the chance of it happening again is extremely unlikely.

 

I would beg to differ about there not being a fatality tied to directly to the fire. The gentleman who died on our cruise was crawling along the floor behind his wife, inhaling a ton of smoke and in turn had a heart attack and passed away. That to me is tied directly to the fire. If you read her account of what happened after her release from the hospital, this is what it states.

 

You are correct, it is extremely unlikely to ever happen again.

[Host CJSKIDS]

No, it would not make a difference on whether we cruise or not.. ;)

 

It would just be nice to know if it were electrical or just an accident. You are correct in that the likelihood of this happening again is low, but if you have ever been involved in a fire, you'd be curious and more careful when it involves a fire.

 

The wife of the deceased says that her DH died of smoke inhalation. I don't know if there was an official report recorded about the exact caused of death. The rumors that he had a heart attack were just after the fire and reported by crew.

 

I wonder if the stress of all the smoke inhalation had something to do with his heart attack? I guess unless she goes completely public we won't ever find out the true cause of his death.

[TinaLee]

I would beg to differ about there not being a fatality tied to directly to the fire. The gentleman who died on our cruise was crawling along the floor behind his wife, inhaling a ton of smoke and in turn had a heart attack and passed away. That to me is tied directly to the fire. If you read her account of what happened after her release from the hospital, this is what it states.

 

You are correct, it is extremely unlikely to ever happen again.

 

Cjs - have you completed the passenger questionnaire the MAIB is asking for? Just curious, since they're obviously looking for info from those who can give a first-hand accounting of events.

[TinAngel]

The poor man died solely due to the fire. If he was able to get clear of the smoke he would have lived perhaps another decade, etc. Same issue as a child being trapped, he likely as me had heart disease but I have lived with it since 1993. See he was a career USAF veteran. Who knows if he had registered as a disabled passsenger help may have been available.

 

Just want folks to see the issue. NCL always sent one or two crew to my cabin for the muster drills and had a crewman assigned to me. I was told in any emergency that the crewman would go first to my cabin. "Go NCL!". Carnival seems moving this way but I am not sure. No idea about Princess. I saw a few NYFD and such post that if they knew say I was onboard that they would also do the same. So if you have an elderly family member, ask the crew at muster drill. If my wife is with the girls in the disco, well, I am toast. Yes, we tipped the NCL crewman that was assigned to me. He also wheeled me off the ship. They are not "attendants" but only for emergencies.

 

Joe

[steve2001]

...In the light of this incident, the investigation bodies have met representatives from the cruise industry and have agreed both short and long term measures to raise even further the very high safety standards within the industry...

 

This is probably the most direct implications on all of us. I would presume these new regulations would be out sooner than fall 2006.

[D4]

...NCL always sent one or two crew to my cabin for the muster drills and had a crewman assigned to me. I was told in any emergency that the crewman would go first to my cabin. "Go NCL!". Carnival seems moving this way but I am not sure. No idea about Princess...

Princess has this, too. We were on the Caribbean Princess last summer and my dad registered with the pursor's desk that he'd need help in case of an emergency. We received a written confirmation of that in our 'mailbox'.

[gatour]

This is probably the most direct implications on all of us. I would presume these new regulations would be out sooner than fall 2006.

 

I am not sure how they can get these "new regulations" out by fall 2006. If you mean for the front of the house,the speil they give or how they account for people then, yes, the Coast Guard can have some influence. And something may come about how to fight like fires, but having regulations issued by fall is highly unlikely

[ericosmith]

I didn't read anything about regulations. It sounds like voluntary changes to me. I would appear that they agreed on some obvious improvements as a result of the investigation so far and aren't going to wait until next fall to do some of them. I'd say that's a good and commendable thing.

[Zebboriah]

I would beg to differ about there not being a fatality tied to directly to the fire. The gentleman who died on our cruise was crawling along the floor behind his wife, inhaling a ton of smoke and in turn had a heart attack and passed away. That to me is tied directly to the fire. If you read her account of what happened after her release from the hospital, this is what it states.

 

My apologies. I hadn't heard the latest news. In no way was I trying to minimize the death of this person, but moreso highlight that it's very incredible that more people didn't lose their lives especially after seeing the pictures of the fire.

[cnmiranda]

Thanks for posting this. I'm curious to hear what the official cause was.

[TinAngel]

Princess has this, too. We were on the Caribbean Princess last summer and my dad registered with the pursor's desk that he'd need help in case of an emergency. We received a written confirmation of that in our 'mailbox'.

 

Perhaps one of the most important posts here. There are never so many elderly or disabled on a cruise that this cannot be done. "Duty" assigned to a crewman is well what made many a great Navy... Glad Princess as I suspected does this. Be advised most elderly will not register. But lets see we take care of our families and be sure they are noted to the crew as in need. There is no reason that the crew assigned to no emergency duties (most) cannot have a few assigned to save, assist a disabled child or elderly passenger.

 

i will write a letter to NCl thanking them for the crewmember tasked to see I was assisted. Promise. As I have said I am an exception as I board in a wheelchair and fill out the Carnival and other lines "disabled" paperwork. But folks it is mostly our elderly parents and the disabled kids.

 

The ship crew has to know: if you are at dinner or at the disco:who will take care of your family? well I am again very proud that I have recieved such special concern. BTW it is hard when you get old to ask for assistance.

 

Joe "Doc"

[Host CJSKIDS]

My apologies. I hadn't heard the latest news. In no way was I trying to minimize the death of this person, but moreso highlight that it's very incredible that more people didn't lose their lives especially after seeing the pictures of the fire.

 

That's okay!

 

It is so true that it's amazing that many others didn't die. I would like to point out again, it's due to the staff and to the passengers. Everyone forgets that the passengers listened, paid attention, and did what they were asked to do. Our cabin area was a cloud of black smoke and at no time did I see anyone all out running, cutting off other, or pushing. It didn't bring out the work in people. AFter a while we were allowed to go to the rest room and the lines were long. People were gracious and friendly and didn't shove. This whole thing had the potential to bring out the worst in people and I can happily say that I didn't witness this. Now when they started to lower the lifeboats, all we could think about was Titanic which we had watched the week prior, but thank our lucky stars we didn't have to see what happened then!

[steve2001]

I am not sure how they can get these "new regulations" out by fall 2006. If you mean for the front of the house,the speil they give or how they account for people then, yes, the Coast Guard can have some influence. And something may come about how to fight like fires, but having regulations issued by fall is highly unlikely

 

Sure they can. This is not the United States Coast Guard. This is the international body who governs maritime law. If it’s concluded that something a passenger brought aboard caused the fire, I am sure that item will be banned or some sort of restriction put in place ASAP.

It has been reported that water was hard to come by for some passengers. They may determine that at least 1 liter of bottled per passenger water must be at each muster station.

These are just two examples of what *could* be put in place in a short time span.

[Pam in CA]

Several things to add to this discussion:

 

* We were aboard the Island Princess when this happened and Richard Joseph, the CD, told us that every Princess ship now has two officers on the bridge dedicated to watching the balconies on each side of the ship. The only area(s) of the ship without fire detection and sprinklers are the balconies and until measures are put into place, the officers are on 2-hour watch shifts 24/7.

 

* When I got home, there was an article on our local paper quoting a resident who had been on the ship during the fire as saying that one rumor was that a teenager, disgruntled at his parents, had been lighting things and throwing them over the side. Obviously, this is rumor but I'm posting it here since it was mentioned as a possible cause in the article.

 

* I'm terribly sorry about the gentleman who passed away on the cruise and it's most likely due to the fire. One thing we're not that aware of is that people pass away all the time on cruises. On my past three cruises, including the recent Island Princess cruise, at least one or two people have passed away so it's not a rare or unusual event.

[Zebboriah]

* We were aboard the Island Princess when this happened and Richard Joseph, the CD, told us that every Princess ship now has two officers on the bridge dedicated to watching the balconies on each side of the ship. The only area(s) of the ship without fire detection and sprinklers are the balconies and until measures are put into place, the officers are on 2-hour watch shifts 24/7.

 

That is interesting that you found that out. When I was on the Sapphire last week I remember seeing someone always standing at the side of the bridge every time I looked up there but was not aware that was why. I'm sure at some point it will either turn into a camera monitoring system and/or they'll add some sort of fire detecting equipment for the balconies.

 

We now live in an age that it only takes one time for something to happen and then drastic measures are put into place which I am happy about in some respects, especially when it comes to safety.

[Host CJSKIDS]

Several things to add to this discussion:

 

* We were aboard the Island Princess when this happened and Richard Joseph, the CD, told us that every Princess ship now has two officers on the bridge dedicated to watching the balconies on each side of the ship. The only area(s) of the ship without fire detection and sprinklers are the balconies and until measures are put into place, the officers are on 2-hour watch shifts 24/7.

 

* When I got home, there was an article on our local paper quoting a resident who had been on the ship during the fire as saying that one rumor was that a teenager, disgruntled at his parents, had been lighting things and throwing them over the side. Obviously, this is rumor but I'm posting it here since it was mentioned as a possible cause in the article.

 

* I'm terribly sorry about the gentleman who passed away on the cruise and it's most likely due to the fire. One thing we're not that aware of is that people pass away all the time on cruises. On my past three cruises, including the recent Island Princess cruise, at least one or two people have passed away so it's not a rare or unusual event.

 

There was a young man that was very angry at his parents, all 3 of my teens told me about him as did our friends son. He evidently caused problems throughout the majority of the cruise for other teens and the staff. My kids said he went into a rage quite a bit whenever he didn't like something and was incredibly angry at his dad that night. I can tell you he was in the teen club on Thursday night according to our friends so not sure what to make of the whole story.

 

I am so happy to hear about them keeping watch over the balconies. I for one can not understand why it took so long for the general fire alarm to sound when they should have been able to check there was indeed a fire from the bridge.

[alolewis]

Sure they can. This is not the United States Coast Guard. This is the international body who governs maritime law. If it’s concluded that something a passenger brought aboard caused the fire, I am sure that item will be banned or some sort of restriction put in place ASAP.

 

It has been reported that water was hard to come by for some passengers. They may determine that at least 1 liter of bottled per passenger water must be at each muster station.

 

These are just two examples of what *could* be put in place in a short time span.

 

My experience is that an change to International Maritime law taked much longer than even the US government in adopting new regulations. I think the International Rules of the Road 1972 edition took over 5 years to ratify. (issued in 1972, effective 1977)

 

I would not expect any required changes anytime quickly but voluntarily changes, company policy could occur anytime.

I am also suprised that a modern cruise ship would burn with such intensity particularly with a well trained crew to fight the fire.

[D4]

Perhaps one of the most important posts here. There are never so many elderly or disabled on a cruise that this cannot be done. "Duty" assigned to a crewman is well what made many a great Navy... Glad Princess as I suspected does this. Be advised most elderly will not register. But lets see we take care of our families and be sure they are noted to the crew as in need. There is no reason that the crew assigned to no emergency duties (most) cannot have a few assigned to save, assist a disabled child or elderly passenger. ... "Doc"

 

You're right that most elderly don't want to register. My dad didn't want to, but we made him. He was a fireman and spent his life helping others. After a stroke and 2 knee replacements, he walks with a cane and has difficulty on stairs. But he didn't want to ask for help.

 

By the way, we've cruised on 5 lines and this was our first Princess cruise. None of the other cruise lines said at their muster drill about signing up for help if there is an emergency. Go Princess!

[cnmiranda]

Wow, I'll be sure to tell my family there are 2 officers watching balconies from the bridge now. Great idea and it does make me feel a little safer. I know my inlaws are a little put off now by recent events, this should help.