Very Interesting Input on Tipping from the Inside

[HeatherInFlorida]

I noticed Laura's link to a poll about tipping so decided to click. While taking the poll, she offered a link to this article on tipping: Cruise Critic Features: Gratuities -- What's the Point?

 

During our endless and ongoing discussions on this board about tipping, many have often talked about gifts for the staff, etc., and many CCer's have been extremely critical of the idea. I find it interesting that this writer who has worked on cruise ships for many years says that gifts are often appreciated, particularly when they represent the passenger's hometown, etc.

 

She also says that many crew members are offended by these "up front tips" (or what I call bribes;) ).

 

So it's very interesting reading in case anyone missed it.

[scopewest]

I thought it was interesting to read that some staff don't want to be tipped before they do their work, they want to prove to you they can do their job. On our last two Christmas cruises, I gave the room steward a card wishing him a happy holiday and enclosed a little cash. Both times the stewards made a point to personally thank me. And I'll do it again this year. I guess most people like to get a gift of some sort during a gift-giving holiday season.

[kryos]

I thought it was interesting to read that some staff don't want to be tipped before they do their work, they want to prove to you they can do their job. On our last two Christmas cruises, I gave the room steward a card wishing him a happy holiday and enclosed a little cash. Both times the stewards made a point to personally thank me. And I'll do it again this year. I guess most people like to get a gift of some sort during a gift-giving holiday season.

My hat's off to those staff members of integrity. I too feel that a tip in advance is little more than a bribe. It's as if I'm saying "I can't trust that you'll give me the good service I want, so here's a little something to let you know that there will be a lot more coming if I can get that expected level of service." Bull.

 

As for gifts, I guess I'm still of the belief that good ole cash is the best gift at the end of the cruise. Those crew members live in awfully tight quarters and are very, very limited in how much "stuff" they can keep with them. Also, sometimes they get moved from ship to ship, as the cruise line's demands dictate, and I can imagine having a lot of stuff to move around could get burdensome. If I were gonna give a crew member a gift, I would keep it something simple, like a keychain or magnet from my hometown, or better still an international phone calling card. But, I would stay away from stuff like clothing or knic nacks. They really don't have the storage space in their tiny cabins for that crap. But, the gift would be something totally extra, and would never be a substitution for good old cash to show my appreciation at the end of the cruise for great service received.

 

I found that article very interesting too ... and a very good read.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Orlandocruiser]

Since we are talking about tipping a crew member's blog at crewoffice.blogspot.com for May 09 mentions the kind of bills that can be exchanged for other currency. eg - no old or torn bills or unusual bills - $2 bills or dollar coins, etc. - I thought this was interesting since many posters say they like to tip in 2 dollar bills. It never occured to me that money exchange places woul not like to accept certain kinds if bills. (I usually get 20s direct from the ATM so they are generally in prety good shape)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Scopewest, I certainly would hope that if you give a crew member a cash gift in advance that they would thank you. Of course they would be grateful for your gift.

 

But that doesn't mean that they don't wonder why you feel you need to do this in advance of the cruise ... the suggestion being that they'll only do a good job it you pay them upfront. Most of these people take great pride in their work and while they appreciate a tip at the end for a job well done, they will do an equally good job for you whether you give them a "gift" upfront or not.

 

I am simply reporting what I read in the article ... personally I would not know one way or the other.

 

The writer of the article doesn't say that everyone feels this way, but she clearly suggests that many do and it makes perfect sense to me.

[RevNeal]

As for gifts, I guess I'm still of the belief that good ole cash is the best gift at the end of the cruise. Those crew members live in awfully tight quarters and are very, very limited in how much "stuff" they can keep with them. Also, sometimes they get moved from ship to ship, as the cruise line's demands dictate, and I can imagine having a lot of stuff to move around could get burdensome. If I were gonna give a crew member a gift, I would keep it something simple, like a keychain or magnet from my hometown, or better still an international phone calling card. But, I would stay away from stuff like clothing or knic nacks. They really don't have the storage space in their tiny cabins for that crap. But, the gift would be something totally extra, and would never be a substitution for good old cash to show my appreciation at the end of the cruise for great service received.

 

Rita, you make fantastic points here. I'm with you in regards to the giving of trinkets or other "junk." Useful things, however, might be welcomed ... though, and again I agree with you, never instead of cash. Anytime I give anything other than cash as a tip, it's always IN ADDITION TO, and it's always something specific that I've discovered that a steward either needs or wants.

 

In 2003, while on the Volendam, I discovered that one of my table waiters -- though Indonesian -- was a recent convert to Christianity and was working hard on both his understanding of his newfound faith and of his English. My being clergy fascinated him, and we ended up chatting for quite a while on several occasions over those 2 weeks. On the last evening of the cruise, in addition to a cash tip, I also gave him a copy of the book I've written on the Means Grace. He was stunned and thankful, and a few weeks later I received a very kind e-mail from him (my e-mail address was on the "About the author" page in the back of the book) expressing, again, his thanks. He also wanted me to know that he had passed the book off to another steward who was also learning to read english and was interested in Christian theology (though, this time, he wasn't a convert ... just a curious Muslim whom, I later learned, was actually an Imam). I kept up with the copy of that book as it made the rounds for about 6 months among the stewards of the Volendam ... and then lost track of it when it got transferred off the ship and to the Veendam with a steward who was reading it. :) That was a gift that kept on giving. :)

 

I have also given several audio CDs of music that a steward told me he loved and had been looking for to buy but hadn't been able to find. And, once, I gave contact information to a steward for a children's surgeon at Dallas Children's Hospital in hopes that there might be some help for the steward's daughter (I later learned that there was, and that a foundation had paid to fly the girl to the states for a special spinal surgery, though I'm not entirely sure of all the details regarding it).

 

However, it is nevertheless true that -- by-and-large -- what is most appreciated is money.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I'm just the messenger:) giving a snipet of what was written by a person who has been on the "other side". If she says that many crew members enjoy gifts, I believe her.

 

Doesn't mean we can't all do what we've always done. Personally, I'd only consider a gift to someone I had sailed with in the past and felt I knew well. I will continue, as always, to give cash gifts at the end of our cruise.

 

But that's my personal choice. I still think this inside look is a very interesting one and something to consider whatever we decide to do. I don't think anyone should every underestimate what a personal gift might mean to someone ... their perception may not be the same as ours. I always give a gift based on what I think that person will enjoy ... not what I personally would like to receive.

 

And I would never give a gift in lieu of a tip ... only in addition to one.

[RevNeal]

But that's my personal choice. I still think this inside look is a very interesting one and something to consider whatever we decide to do. I don't think anyone should every underestimate what a personal gift might mean to someone ... their perception may not be the same as ours. I always give a gift based on what I think that person will enjoy ... not what I personally would like to receive.

 

Excellent thoughts, Heather! Thanks!

[cruisegirl]

Since the discussion of tips has come up let me ask a question. Our cruise last November on HAL was the first cruise we've taken where an amount was automatically added to our bill. I didn't mind that except that when I learned what the distribution was to our waiters and our room steward I realized that they weren't going to get as much as the usual suggested tip on other cruise lines. So I ended up tipping extra. I understand that the concept is to provide tips for additional people but I felt bad that those who had served us most directly were going to be short tipped if we didn't make up the difference. I'm just curious what reactions you have to this new policy for HAL.

[Scrumpy]

I enjoy the auto-tipping. In fact, I prefer it because it can cover some memory lapses on our part. It was not in place on our first HAL cruise and, although we gave gratuities to the people who served us, and took care of the dining room staff for our dinner, etc. at the time, it didn't occur to us to cover the cabin steward for our MIL's cabin for which we were also responsible. She's from a non-tipping culture and I doubt it would have occurred to her. Later, we felt bad about that.

 

As far as small gifts in addition to cash, we considered phone cards last year. At the time, there was serious disagreement on the board about what was appropriate - and lengthy diatribes about why even a phone card wasn't a good gift and that it might only work in certain areas, etc. In the end, it was not so much CC that forced my hand; it was forgetfulness and we arrived without cards. Afterward, I wondered if it would have been just as appropriate to have something more unusual or something more personal that I could have gotten in port. But, our dining staff was so busy we had no opportunity to chat with them. And, I think we only saw our cabin steward twice. He did a great job, but he was the invisible man. Again, seemed extremely busy.

 

So, what would you consider an acceptable small gift? Anything obvious? What would be thoughtful? You know very little about the staff before you meet them - and sometimes very little afterward. We have these pretty gold-dipped earring here made from various leaves, often aspen are quite pretty. No, they are not expensive, but they would certainly qualify as small. Good? Bad? A new, inexpensive watch? What about stationery? Do they use it to write their families? Or, do they communicate mainly via the phone or email? There are any number of things that could be brought, but I would hate to give them something that only takes space and they will not use. That's wasteful. Being in Colorado, we have lots of fleece and sweatshirts. Appropriate? Too bulky? What about a t-shirt - or perhaps infant or child-size t-shirt they could give to a family member or friend with children, even they don't have any of their own? My point is that I could go to the dollar store and scoop up some potentially useless things or I could actually shop with a general idea of what is useful and what is simply one more thing to be dealt with. Ideas? I agree cash is safer and the amount of cash won't be affected by the cost of any extras; I like to shop for other people. I enjoy it. I just enjoy it more when I have some insight into what that person wants/needs/enjoys.

 

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Krazy Kruizers]

We don't mind the auto tipping policy at all. In fact, before it was put into place, too often we saw many people on the last night get up from their tables while the crew was singing their farewell song and leave the dining room without even saying goodby. And too often we saw the disappointed looks of the waitstaff when they returned to their stations to see a good many people were gone. It was evident that the waitstaff had received nothing from many of those people.

We do not believe in tipping anything to anyone at the beginning of the cruise. But we certainly do tip extra to all those inidividuals who have made our cruise an enjoyable one.

[Krazy Kruizers]

As for personal gifts - have never given any. I have read many times about individuals giving $2 bills and having talked to a couple of crew members who received them, they said that they have to wait to get to an American port and go to a bank and exchange - the $2 bills have no real meaning to them.

[Orlandocruiser]

On the last couple of cruises we were on before they instituted the auto-tip the attendance at dinner the last night was embarassing. But I think if people want to stiff the wait staff they will find a way. One of our tablemates on our last cruise reduced their tip because the lunch service in the dining room was slow (they were experienced HAl cruisers so they should have known that it is always slow) thus stiffing our dinner staff would would get them special bread and desserts all the time. They even convinced the other couple at our table not to tip extra! ( We waited until they all left to present our tips)

[Krazy Kruizers]

WOW - that's really something. Why should they stiff their evening dining room waitstaff just because they had poor service at lunch? It is avery rare that you will have your evening waitstaff waiting on you at breakfast and lunch.

[Pudgesmom]

I don't like the auto-tipping, but I understand the reason.

 

I think HAL created part of the problem with their "tipping not required" previous policy. When we were looking for an Alaskan cruise several years ago, My MIL suggested HAL. She said she liked the fact that "tips were included." What did we know? As the cruise industry expanded its customer base, my feeling is that many passengers fell into this catagory.

 

The article Heather quotes is very interesting. Notwithstanding the higher wages, improvement over native home employment opportunities, and limited storage space, I'll bet that many crew members enjoy the opportunity to travel. That's why the t-shirt, key chain, etc., from home might be a good idea. I especially liked the thought of a lunch on-shore. What a great chance for all to get to know one another, try some local food, and, for the crew member, to get a free meal off the ship!

 

I believe we will try that one on our next cruise.

 

Beth

[jhannah]

KK, it amazes me how cheap and stingy some people are. They will spend thousands on a ten-day cruise, yet balk at the basic $200 for the service rendered to them. Sheesh!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Scrumpy, I remember that thread. That's one reason this article stood out for me. You were severely criticized for even suggesting something besides $$$. I don't have an answer to your questions because I'm just not that knowledgeable in this area, but did you read the article I linked in my OP? The writer makes some suggestions in that article.

I would be the last person to criticize a thread for going off course because I'm the first one to say threads take on a life of their own. But I'm not sure how we got to auto-tipping when the crux of the thread is about what makes the cruise ship staff happy when it comes to tipping ... not what makes us happy which has so often been talked to death here:) .

[Gardyloo2]

After reading about how tips are perceived from people of other nations, I became a lot more sensitive about what to give. This is a huge benefit of cruise critic and other boards.

 

I was thinking of taking a few small gold metal cable car pins from San Francisco to give as small thank you's in addition to extra cash tips for those who give exceptional service.

When I've given them to people around the country, they've loved them. They don't take up much room, look special, work for men or women, and come from where I live.

Whaddya think?

[celmed]

Rev Neal, I really appreciate what you posted because it shows that you took the time to get to know ship staff rather than just throwing some trinket or cash at them. Those are marvelous examples of how to impact lives in simple ways -- but they do require interaction rather than just judging whether your meal arrived on time at your table or if your cabin is clean enough.

Thank you for posting these excellent examples as reminders to all of us that the crew has needs with which we might be able to help in non-monetary ways, too. I'm now challenged to seek opportunities on my cruises for this type of involvement.

[Tricia724]

My favorite part of this article is where she suggests giving some "small" item such as a charm, key chain, or a MONT BLANC pen.

 

Good grief....you could take a cruise for the price of some of the Mont Blanc pens! She kind of lost me right there.

[gizmo]

My favorite part of this article is where she suggests giving some "small" item such as a charm, key chain, or a MONT BLANC pen.

 

Good grief....you could take a cruise for the price of some of the Mont Blanc pens! She kind of lost me right there.

 

The same thing crossed my mind. :rolleyes:

[Craigster-diver]

KK, it amazes me how cheap and stingy some people are. They will spend thousands on a ten-day cruise, yet balk at the basic $200 for the service rendered to them. Sheesh!

 

[rant on]

 

Not to stir the pot, further, but.....

 

The whole notion of "mandatory" tipping is getting my goat.

 

Employees on a cruise ship, like employees anywhere else in the world are there by choice. No-one steals people from their homes in the dark of night, drags them to a pier, tosses them into a ship's hold and forces them to serve drinks -- clear tables -- take dinner orders -- clean & paint the ship -- etc. Staff know in advance what the compensation structure is, what the hours of work are, what the employer's expectations are, that the job description says, what the time away from home committment is, etc. After all, people *apply* for these jobs, of their own free will. I know that I was aware of all these factors for consideration before I accepted my last job. If I'm not willing to do the work that I was hired to do, at the compensation offered, then I should look elsewhere.

 

No-one offers me an extra $20 a day for doing my job well, or for going the extra mile -- and I don't expect anyone to. I knew what I was expected to do in exchange for my paycheque when I signed on. I don't have the right to complain about being an economic slave to my employer as long as I have the free will and ability to change my own circumstances.

 

Somehow I think there's this "traveller mentality" which suggests to consumers of things like cruises, tours, etc, that the staff we encounter on a holiday are 2nd or 3rd class citizens of planet earth. Our duty as paying passengers / guests / clients somehow becomes one of economic liberator....freeing the opressed workers from their bondage of slave wages and horrid working conditions. We feel supperior when we dole out $2 here, $5 there...etc......admit it......it's the North American way.... We thrive when we perpetuate the illusion that there's a servant class in society made up of people less equal than ourselves - who are expected to somehow prostitute themselves in order to gain our favour. Not a pretty sight, is it ?

 

What is fundamentally wrong with the situation where a customer agrees to purchase goods/services from a vendor at a fixed price and is not expected to pay $0.01 more to recieve those goods/services ?

 

Do people offer to pay Wal-Mart an additional $5 per store visit just because the greeter holds the door for the elderly lady having trouble getting her walker through the door ? How many times have you handed the grocery store clerk $10 because he/she let you through the express line even though you had 12 items, not 10 ?? Have you ever stopped the cop on the street, handed him a $20 and thanked him for putting his LIFE on the line every time he/she pulls on the uniform ??

 

Why is it that we'll defend tipping practices to the death for those who bring us drinks, clean our filthy messes, and make our holiday a little more enjoyable BUT don't even consider tipping the people who make the other 355 days a year a little more pleasant for all of us ?? I suspect it's that we EXPECT the cop, the greeter, the grocery clerk to do their jobs....and we'd be first in line to complain if they didn't. Why don't we expect the staff on a cruise ship / at a holiday resort / etc to do their jobs without us having to dangle the threat of reduced or eliminiated tips over their heads ?

 

I don't get it. I think we have it all screwed up. Why isn't it enough to keep our own cabins from looking like pig-pens, cut the stewardess a break when she's 30 seconds late with our drink order, smile at people in uniform, tell the painters they're doing a great job, ask your waiter about where they're from, and just treat people like people. Somehow, we've come to the conclusion that we can treat the "servant class" poorly as long as we're good tippers.

 

Off soap-box for now.....

 

Craig.

 

[/rant off]

[HeatherInFlorida]

Craig, you'll get no argument from me. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, but I agree with a lot of it. I think you're right.

 

However, no one individual is getting that $20/day. By the time they divide it up among everyone, each person gets a very small cut.

 

The fact remains (and we all disagree about this all the time:o ) that a gratuity should be what it was originally intended to be: for service over and above what you would reasonably expect. Tipping is a part of our lives and it's not going away.

 

Note: The grocery clerk lets you go in the "10 Items or Less" aisle when you have 12 items???? Hey! I'd tip for that!!:)

[peaches from georgia]

[rant on]

 

Somehow, we've come to the conclusion that we can treat the "servant class" poorly as long as we're good tippers.

 

Not sure who "WE" is, but please don't include me in this group. I have reached no such conclusion nor do I categorize anyone I give a gratuity as part of any 'class'. And I don't intentionally treat anyone poorly ever, no matter who they are.

[Scrumpy]

Scrumpy, I remember that thread. That's one reason this article stood out for me. You were severely criticized for even suggesting something besides $$$. I don't have an answer to your questions because I'm just not that knowledgeable in this area, but did you read the article I linked in my OP? The writer makes some suggestions in that article.

 

 

 

Heather, thank God for CRS!!! I don't even remember negative postings specifically directed toward me now :) I remembered some discord; luckily, forgot I was an object of it. I read the article, but wondering how to actually incorporate things from here that might (or might not) have meaning for people I don't yet know. And, if it's like the last cruise, we didn't have nearly the interaction with staff or the chance to learn much about them as they seemed much busier than in 2003 - and we didn't have my gregarious MIL either. I like the personal touch and that is what makes it hard. Cash is so easy... but cash spends easily, too, and I'm sure it's appreciated. From the article, I couldn't help but think of the luggage allowance and that although an adult t-shirt might be nice, how many might they end up with at the end of 6-9 months?!?! Since many have families, I thought something cute, and much smaller, for a child might be better. Perhaps a trip to Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory is in order. Gee, when isn't it in order? LOL!:D