Crown Princess Incident

[Merion_Mom]

I can't get my door to prop open in a level sea with those strong hinges they install to slam it shut.....:)

Easiest thing in the world. One sandal will do the trick without question. Did it several times this cruise.

 

Wow now that would be a picture worth a thousand words.. I wonder if anyone got one of that wake?

Unfortunately, we were WAY too shook up to even THINK of grabbing a camera.

[zydecocruiser]

I think you are wrong about that. The higher decks would have a greater arc of motion. The distance they move would be greater, but the time component would be the same, in other words, they would move faster relative to the lower decks. The higher acceleration would impart more momentum to the objects being moved or thrown. It is just like the difference between hitting a baseball on the end of the bat and hitting it closer to the handle end. The far end of the bat is accelerating faster and therefore imparts more force and velocity to the ball.

MD

 

He is correct that 15 degrees is 15 degrees. Other than that? :confused:

 

Acceleration is a different animal, being a derivative of velocity with respect to time. And I didn't see anything relative to Newton's First Law. In addition, various coefficients of friction are irrelevant when the contact between two objects no longer exists. Only air resistance. ;)

 

On another note, I know a fair amount, and have experience with, avionics including flight controls (including autopilots and fly by wire systems) and software engineering life cycle, including design and testing (and requirements, and implementation, and maintenance, yada yada).

 

Since there is so much speculation going on, what the hell - based on many conflicitng reports, at first blush it sounds like rudder hardover.

 

Last report I saw on Grand Princess put that list at 16.5 degrees, and by all accounts this one was worse (and a different source of the problem).

[cruizefan]

I just returned from the Crown on 7/11 and i was shocked when i found out. I've been looking over all the articles and watching the clips and its amazing when I look at my pictures from the trip and see everything trashed online. Its almost sad. The ship was beautifle. It wasn't the best cruise i've been on but it certainly was a relaxing trip and aside from missing grand turk, it was a pleasant experience.

 

As far as the 15 degree listing. I can speculate that theres a lot of different reports coming in from passengers because as the news reporters pointed out, a 15 degree list on deck 5 will feel much different than if you were in skywalkers on deck 19. The higher you go, the more you feel you are tipping. Just my .02, somebody feel free to correct me.

 

Captain Proctor was very nice captain and always kept us informed of weather and what not. I'll admit it, I watched the "Interview with the Captain" on the princess channel a couple times when I was bored. it was also nice meeting him at the captains gala. i'm sure this is just as shocking and devastating for him as it was for some of the passengers

 

Hope everyone returns safetly and hope they get the crown up and going and find out what happened. Also hope our waiters and jr waiter wasn't hurt. Dennis, Gerry and Paulo.

 

i am interested to watch the final report. i hope it wasn't human error

[zydecocruiser]

Well I see I am being mocked about my degree and advice which is fine. I am not going to stoop to a lower being just to play kids games but we economist are the ones that predict and follow the economies of the world so when we head into a dowturn which we are do for one because we can not always be going up you will be wodering why the economist did not warn you and now you are laid off and your retirement funds are in a downturn. :):):) The damage from this is not going to happen right away if you would read my post correctly I said when they post their next earnings there might be something in there about the lost the occurred due to this accident. You can not say that Princess spending a ton of money that they will not get back will not affect the books it makes no sense.

 

Not sure what a degree or university matters - but why would one go to MIT for a business degree?

 

Anyway, Carnival's last earnings conference call was jun 16 so will be a while before another.

 

The effects of this years hurricane season will have a far greater effect on the stock price, and a bad hurricane year is already factored in, than this incident.

 

But for the record, I have a MBA from a diploma mill college.

[elleluv]

Carol and Nancy,

I am so glad that you are both home safe and sound. What a tramatic ending to what sounded like a fantastic cruise. I was really worried about you both and am very happy to know you are ok. :)

Ellen

[celebrity]

You have taken the time to keep us informed. I am so sorry for you as well as your fellow passengers and the crew of the Crown that experienced this terrifying event. Merionmom: I cried when I read about your ordeal at the airport. That would have been the last straw for me. Just wondering if you discussed with fellow passengers the likelihood that they will ever sail again? No doubt there will be quite a few that have been so traumatized that they will never consider another cruise. I am set to sail on the next voyage and while I am apprehensive, it won't stop me. Hugs to all!!

[tinaparrotthead]

First, I want to say my prayers and positive thoughts go out to all (and their loved ones) who went through the Crown incident. I can imagine what family and friends of the people on board must have been going through when the initial reports came through. So much incorrect info and very little eye witness at first.

I keep reading references to pictures of the damage onboard but have been unable to locate them. Can someone post a link? We are due to sail on the Crown in November and are considering cancelling. I also talked our best friends (for 30 years) who have never cruised, to booking a cruise on the Crown April 07. They have booked the owners suite and I need to be able to get her and her husband actual pictures if possible. They are like a lot of people, VERY concerned, and need to get all the ACTUAL information possible to make a decision. As much of this has been sensationalized in the media, and pictures speak a thousand words.....we would truly appreciate any links to pics or ACTUAL videos that you might have! It seems that the only real eye witnessess are on this board....but that doesn't surprise me! :D

Thanks all!

[Merion_Mom]

Try this video: http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=213629&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.1.1

 

Our CC group will be posting pictures soon.

[tinaparrotthead]

Try this video: http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=213629&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.1.1

 

Our CC group will be posting pictures soon.

 

Thank you much Merion! I will look forward to those pics!

[jmdrace]

to ask a question to the computer people .there were 2 captians aboard seas were like glass no problems ,i am heading north but am off the the mark auto piolt is off i do not relize that i am 2miles off corse i push the auto piolt and how fast will it respond to set me on corse?and when the ship lists i unplug the console to try to correct the problem but now have removed all steering?as we came in under power but had no steering only thrusters.just a question as i was also on this ride.

[Pharley]

It was definately more than 15 degrees...15 degrees would not have caused me to slide straight out of my bed into my door and fall into the hallway...

 

So you make a habit of laying on your bed with your cabin door open? The doors are very secure so dont come back with another pinnochio type statement that it flew open.

 

That was rude and obnoxious.

 

The person was talking about the area INSIDE the cabin where the closet and bathroom doors are.

[Nliedel]

Hey Greg. Are you home yet? I see Carol is home safe and sound. We ran into some serious turbulance last night on the plane. The guy next to me wsa seat gripping. I just figured God would not save the Crown then crash me. Of course I will NEVER be a Princess Pop Star now.

 

I am not sure if someone posted this already. I had posted here, after the incident and I was down in Joanie and Al's cabin with Carol when my cell phone rang with a number I did not know. "Hello, this is Deborah, with Anderson Cooper 360 at CNN. Do you have any video?" WHAT?? Vultures. I did do an interview with my hometown paper yesterday. I wanted to share that I had a very good time, thought the crew handled it well and would sail her again tomorrow if I could. I was terrified. Make no mistake, but I'm safe and sound and in all my cruises this was the very first indcident. I know some people will be scared, but I also know that I am a big chicken poo and if I can get back on the horse....

 

Time to wake up my babies now!!! YEAH! I GET TO SEE THEM!!

[JPO]

I actually do know a little bit about testing software... :eek:

 

Software in a system such as this is almost unbelievably complex. Remember these new ships are "fly by wire". There are electronic controls which feed computers, which do calculations and then send control signals to the actual hardware that drives and steers the ship. I am certain that you could run this sort of a system for decades with no problem, then suddenly discover a bug that had never been seen before. There are literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of different circumstances that can exist, each one of which must be handled 100% properly. One little mistake in design or implementation can have drastic results. There are well documented cases in the space program of "missing comma" type software mistakes causing the loss of a space vehicle. That's a nice euphemism for "rocket blew up"!

 

If something like this is what happened here, I doubt they will ever release the nitty gritty details. Good software safety analysis and testing is not cheap, and faces budgetary pressure just like everything else.

 

Theron

 

Indeed ... years ago I was working with a computer controlled 5.5 ton telescope mounted on the roof of a building. Every so often, perhaps once every 100 hours of observing, the 'scope would go into very rapid oscillation ... sufficient to vibrate the building (and elicit an immediate phone call from the admin office directly below). We spent many hours searching the code for the bug without success until I found it purely by accident while looking at something else entirely. It turned out that only when two events occurred at exactly the same time could the problem occur ... we estimated that it happened once in every 200 billion cpu cycles. Large system control software is enourmously complex ... subtle bugs can be nearly impossible to find.

[spongerob]

 

Reading these posts, I will put in my two cents ...

 

Greg

Great post, and definitely worth more than two cents. Thanks very much for taking the time to type and post your comments.

[WarMace]

Wesh.com is using the 15 degree mockup posted earlier in this thread.

 

http://www.wesh.com/2006/0719/9541384_320X240.jpg :p

[GBRBEB]

News report from WNBC in NY...note the reference to who notified the Coast Guard first...

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13941870/

[CrusTed]

My nuclear/extended family of nine was on the previous Crown Princess cruise and we offer a hearty get well soon for those injured and empathize with all those passengers and crew regarding this terrifying experience.

The fuel/Grand Turk issue notwithstanding, our cruise, the first for all, was perfect and delightful throughout. A big part of our enjoyment was the wonderful Crown Princess crew and yesterday found us wondering about the welfare of James, Cameron, Danny, Hector, Christina and all the others that served us so well.

I'm not surprised to read all the comments above regarding the exemplary performance of the crew in this unfortunate incident. But my wife raises a good point to which I can't find the answer in the previous postings, generously made by those actually onboard.

How soon was the "all clear" sounded? I understand that Captain Andy immediately got on the horn as soon as he reached the bridge while the ship was still heeled over in the turn. Once the ship righted, my Navy experience would probably have allowed me to quickly transition from "personal" terror mode to "are the kids all right?" terror mode. But my wife fairly states that she would have had no basis to think that the ship was no longer in immediate danger and therefore is very concerned about how much time elapsed before Captain Andy got on the horn to assure the passengers on that point.

Can anybody clear that up?

My kids and I want to cruise again on the Crown Princess and we're working to comfort my wife. :)

Many thanks.

[flagger]

News report from WNBC in NY...note the reference to who notified the Coast Guard first...

Did you also notice the statement from the Coast Guard in that same story?

Coast Guard officials said it is not uncommon for a captain to first assess the situation and ensure the ship's stability before contacting them.

[shirleygr]

Hey Greg. Are you home yet? I see Carol is home safe and sound. We ran into some serious turbulance last night on the plane. The guy next to me wsa seat gripping. I just figured God would not save the Crown then crash me. Of course I will NEVER be a Princess Pop Star now.

 

I am not sure if someone posted this already. I had posted here, after the incident and I was down in Joanie and Al's cabin with Carol when my cell phone rang with a number I did not know. "Hello, this is Deborah, with Anderson Cooper 360 at CNN. Do you have any video?" WHAT?? Vultures. I did do an interview with my hometown paper yesterday. I wanted to share that I had a very good time, thought the crew handled it well and would sail her again tomorrow if I could. I was terrified. Make no mistake, but I'm safe and sound and in all my cruises this was the very first indcident. I know some people will be scared, but I also know that I am a big chicken poo and if I can get back on the horse....

 

Time to wake up my babies now!!! YEAH! I GET TO SEE THEM!!

Nancy, so happy to hear you are now home and safe. Get lots of hugs from those kiddies--that will make just about anything better. :)

Thanks so much for keeping all of us informed of what was going on. I was so worried about you and Carol when I heard about this incident. I was relieved to immediately read yours and Carol's posts.

Oh, and that's great news about your pictures. I thought that was truly horrible someone would have taken photos that didn't belong to them. And a little creepy too. :eek:

[dchester]

He is correct that 15 degrees is 15 degrees. Other than that? :confused:

:D

 

I agree with you on that. The bottom line is that the farther away one is from the center of the rotation, the greater the force they will experience.

[Cruising89143]

Try this video: http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=213629&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.1.1

 

Our CC group will be posting pictures soon.

 

Carol, do you ever sleep? :) Looks like you were up all night.

[iliv2cruz]

Greg,

 

You had me at "hello." Or actually, at "putting in my two cents worth." Yours was one of the more cogent reports of what happened on Crown.

But when you suggest that a hacker using a satellite downlink sent a virus to the ship's control computer, you are beginning to sound like Fox News. Or is it Nancy Grace? Bottom line, machines break and humans make mistakes.

 

You can't tell me that many people are wondering the same thing (that a virus is possible, or the computer may have a serious bug issue)...and I HOPE & PRAY that Princess is looking into that possiblity...I LOVE cruising, I plan on sailing her soon and am hoping that the IT dept is seriously looking at that as well! All aspects need to be checked...this is serious and I wouldn't feel comfortable if they weren't checking the software along with everything else!

[hardingk]

Thanks Carol & Nancy for getting us up to date the whole time. I have read your thread from begining to end and can't imagine what you went through. Luckily everyone is safe and made it home ok.

[hardingk]

Double Post, sorry....the boards are so slow these past few days.

[caribill]

See what a 15 degree tilt looks like at http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-07-19-cruise_x.htm

 

It is about 1/2 way down the page on the left. Click where it says for the tilt.