Fares Guaranteed/Confirmed Reservation

[hammybee]

There is another thread about an alleged HAL computer glitch. I responded to it and thought it might be worthwhile to share here something that 6 different HAL reps told me today:

 

Fares ( independent of port charges and taxes) are not guaranteed until a reservation is confirmed and confirmed means "paid in full".

 

Fares are based based upon projected costs. If costs exceed projections, HAL has the right to increase fare up to the initial departure. Those with confirmed reservations will be afforded the opportunity to cancel with out penaty and all monies will be refunded.

 

As passengers we expect to reap the benefits of fare changes in our favor and therefore it makes sense that any cruise line neeeds the ability to increase fares, should they deem it necessary. On a practical basis, it would be a nightmare for a cruise line to do this, but nonetheless, they have the right to do so or so the contract and 6 HAL reps said.

[kakalina]

Hammydear; I think there really may have been a pricing glitch. We were pricing a superior suite for a 10 day Mex Riv on HAL and the site showed a price of 1600.00pp. I know that is very low and called the agency to verify. There computer showed that HAL had sent that price, at my urging she called HAL to double check and was informed there was a glitch and that the price listed was incorrect and would not, of course, be honored.

[happy cruzer]

Hi, Hammybee, Please help me understand:

 

They told you fares are not guarenteed until paid in full. Which might be the minute you give them your credit card say for example 6 months before boarding. But then it goes on to say that they can raise the fare up to intial departure?? Then what was the guaranty when you paid in full??

 

I don't get it. Is the price frozen/guaranteed when paid in full or when you depart?

[lougee1043]

There is another thread about an alleged HAL computer glitch. I responded to it and thought it might be worthwhile to share here something that 6 different HAL reps told me today:

 

am i reading this correctly --you asked the same question to 6 DIFFERENThal reps today-- curious --what made you ask the same question 6 times

[hammybee]

am i reading this correctly --you asked the same question to 6 DIFFERENThal reps today-- curious --what made you ask the same question 6 times

 

Actually I thought it possible I would get 6 different answers. To my surprise all 6 answered the same.

[RuthC]

I had always understood that the price could be increased up until date of sailing, but that clause in the contract allowing it has never been implemented. If it were to be implemented then the passenger may cancel without penalty is the other side of the deal.

Nothing new here.

Increases in port charges/taxes are passed on to the passenger routinely.

[Sunshine91]

I remember last year about Thanksgiving time that the boards were all lit up about folks receiving letters saying that their fares would be increased by $xx for a fuel surcharge. It didn't actually happen on HAL, but it might have happend to pax on other lines. Then again, those fuel letters may have been rumors. I just remember folks getting their knickers in a twist & no one actually ever got a letter. :)

[hammybee]

Hi, Hammybee, Please help me understand:

 

They told you fares are not guarenteed until paid in full. Which might be the minute you give them your credit card say for example 6 months before boarding. But then it goes on to say that they can raise the fare up to intial departure?? Then what was the guaranty when you paid in full??

 

I don't get it. Is the price frozen/guaranteed when paid in full or when you depart?

 

I think the key to all of this is the term "guarantee".

 

HAL can change the fare up anytime up to the point that you pay in full, which according to 6 HAL reps means a "confirmed" reservation.

 

HAL can increases the fare after you make full payment if their actual costs are greater than projected, including but not limited to a fuel surcharge. If they do this and you have paid in full, you are given the option of paying the increase or cancelling the trip with a full refund- no penalties.

 

The guarantee means, according to 6 different HAL reps, that if HAL increases the fare AFTER you have made full payment, you are guaranteed the ability to opt out of the cruise, without paying a cancellation penalty.

 

So if HAL had a computer glitch, human error or unexpected increases in their costs, they could change the price at any time.

 

This made sense to me because as passengers we expect to benefit from fare reductions, but in order for most things to be true, you have to turn it upside down, and when you do we usually find that it's a two-way street.

[hammybee]

Hammydear; I think there really may have been a pricing glitch. We were pricing a superior suite for a 10 day Mex Riv on HAL and the site showed a price of 1600.00pp. I know that is very low and called the agency to verify. There computer showed that HAL had sent that price, at my urging she called HAL to double check and was informed there was a glitch and that the price listed was incorrect and would not, of course, be honored.

 

I really don't know. I am relaying what 6 different HAL reps told me. It is possible that none of them were aware of a "glitch" or had been instructed to deny it.

[AAAAmerican]

Well increase are a given. We reside in a state which raised the sales and uses taxation by another whole interest point even for the first time adding clothing .. *Grrr* sorry it erks me.. They were finally going to reduce property taxes. I am a land/real property owner in 3 Counties here. But still nothing has been done for the Property Taxes..

 

 

Why also does not H A L lower rates much more now with Fuel Charges a lot lower for them.. The fuels they burn on there vessels are much lowr in refining costs so how come they have not brought a Press release out showing that thusly then getting more bookings and Full Ships..

 

Are we only getting fuel increase not when fuel goes down.. and down a LOT..?:eek:

[hammybee]

I had always understood that the price could be increased up until date of sailing, but that clause in the contract allowing it has never been implemented. If it were to be implemented then the passenger may cancel without penalty is the other side of the deal.

Nothing new here.

Increases in port charges/taxes are passed on to the passenger routinely.

 

Thank you RuthC. The disconnect for me, at least, is that I used to think that when I made an intial deposit, I was locking in on a price. Today I learned HAL has recourse to change their price at any time. If however, you paid in full,and in a confirmed status, you can cancel your cruise w/o penalty, should they do so.

[noblepa]

At about this time last year, I was scheduling a seven day, Mexican Riviera cruise on Oosterdam. I was concerned about the rapidly rising price of fuel. A friend suggested that I pay in full, earlier than required, in order to lock in my price.

 

I sent an email to HAL asking them if this would lock in my fare. The response I got from them was, that it was HAL POLICY to honor the fare quoted at the time the deposit is paid. As others have mentioned, a close reading of the fine print in the cruise contract reveals that they can raise the fare at any time up until embarkation. If they do raise the fare, then the passenger may cancel the reservation, regardless of any penalty period, and receive a full refund.

 

They went on to point out that this policy and contract wording does not apply to taxes, port charges or airfare. IOW, if the price of you cabin goes up, you can cancel and get a full refund, even at the pier. If the increase is due to those costs not under HAL's control, such as taxes, port charges and air fare, then the cancellation policy applies; pay it or lose the money you have already paid.

 

If that is still the policy, then paying in full does no more to lock in a fare, than does putting down a deposit.

 

As for raising a fare that was MISTAKENLY quoted, every business retains the right to correct an error. Read the fine print in the full-page ads in your Sunday newspaper. There is often a fine-print disclaimer stating this. The law allows this. It is not bait-and-switch, if the company can show that it was a genuine mistake, and if it does not become a habit. Sometimes, if the error is relatively small, they will choose to absorb the cost of the mistake, rather than risk losing a customer and creating ill will. If the mistake is large enough, they may decide that the possible ill will is exceeded by the monetary loss and insist the customer pay the difference.

 

Unless HAL has significantly changed the wording of their cruise contract in the last six months, what six customer service reps at HAL told you, is patently wrong on its face. The contract gives them the right to raise fares up to and including the day of embarkation, so full payment has no real legal force.

 

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. (I have had a couple of undergraduate courses in business law, partiicularly contracts).

 

Paul Noble

[hammybee]

Well increase are a given. We reside in a state which raised the sales and uses taxation by another whole interest point even for the first time adding clothing .. *Grrr* sorry it erks me.. They were finally going to reduce property taxes. I am a land/real property owner in 3 Counties here. But still nothing has been done for the Property Taxes..

 

 

Why also does not H A L lower rates much more now with Fuel Charges a lot lower for them.. The fuels they burn on there vessels are much lowr in refining costs so how come they have not brought a Press release out showing that thusly then getting more bookings and Full Ships..

 

Are we only getting fuel increase not when fuel goes down.. and down a LOT..?:eek:

 

AAAAmerican: Again, you are creeping me out, because I understand what you are saying- is it perhaps a NJ thing? ( BTW, I no longer reside in NJ but keep it in my profile, to remember). HAL did not invoke fuel surcharges so this is probably why they are not rebating us, now that costs are down. Thank you for the term "inverse". That is what I meant when I said turn it upside down, which is, I think, a teeny-bopper song:)

[hammybee]

At about this time last year, I was scheduling a seven day, Mexican Riviera cruise on Oosterdam. I was concerned about the rapidly rising price of fuel. A friend suggested that I pay in full, earlier than required, in order to lock in my price.

 

I sent an email to HAL asking them if this would lock in my fare. The response I got from them was, that it was HAL POLICY to honor the fare quoted at the time the deposit is paid. As others have mentioned, a close reading of the fine print in the cruise contract reveals that they can raise the fare at any time up until embarkation. If they do raise the fare, then the passenger may cancel the reservation, regardless of any penalty period, and receive a full refund.

 

They went on to point out that this policy and contract wording does not apply to taxes, port charges or airfare. IOW, if the price of you cabin goes up, you can cancel and get a full refund, even at the pier. If the increase is due to those costs not under HAL's control, such as taxes, port charges and air fare, then the cancellation policy applies; pay it or lose the money you have already paid.

 

If that is still the policy, then paying in full does no more to lock in a fare, than does putting down a deposit.

 

As for raising a fare that was MISTAKENLY quoted, every business retains the right to correct an error. Read the fine print in the full-page ads in your Sunday newspaper. There is often a fine-print disclaimer stating this. The law allows this. It is not bait-and-switch, if the company can show that it was a genuine mistake, and if it does not become a habit. Sometimes, if the error is relatively small, they will choose to absorb the cost of the mistake, rather than risk losing a customer and creating ill will. If the mistake is large enough, they may decide that the possible ill will is exceeded by the monetary loss and insist the customer pay the difference.

 

Unless HAL has significantly changed the wording of their cruise contract in the last six months, what six customer service reps at HAL told you, is patently wrong on its face. The contract gives them the right to raise fares up to and including the day of embarkation, so full payment has no real legal force.

 

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. (I have had a couple of undergraduate courses in business law, partiicularly contracts).

 

Paul Noble

 

Thank you Paul. You said it better than I did. It was news to me today and I thought perhaps there might be others on this board that believe that locking in or guarantee meant something. HAL has the contractual right to increase but as a business policy, they do not willy- nilly jack up prices, once a deposit is made.

[AAAAmerican]

AAAAmerican: Again, you are creeping me out, because I understand what you are saying- is it perhaps a NJ thing? ( BTW, I no longer reside in NJ but keep it in my profile, to remember). HAL did not invoke fuel surcharges so this is probably why they are not rebating us, now that costs are down. Thank you for the term "inverse". That is what I meant when I said turn it upside down, which is, I think, a teeny-bopper song:)

 

I guess thanks for the compliment maam. SInce your not a Monmouth ITE any more where for arte thou? Oh in Mercer Lynch (D) was caught on corruption .. he faces 4 Years.

 

Yes H A L did not invoke a fuel charge but having lower operating costs associated now, would make me HOPE ( do you remember that Hospital Ship...), with fuel charges etc.. lowering the price would make for a great Press Series Release Countrywide...

 

Look at the stop in old San Juan, PR thats just a few hours to dump garbage and fuel up , I took pictures , but the passengers have to be back on the Noordam by Noon and its Sunday so not many if any shops and the US Park is closed... guest have to wake up at 5-6a to go through US Customs as well ...why do the passengers have to pay the Port charges for a quickie?

 

 

 

I was hearing the NEW song yesterday too.. n the Good Ship HammyDam ....:eek: ;)

[hammybee]

I guess thanks for the compliment maam. SInce your not a Monmouth ITE any more where for arte thou? Oh in Mercer Lynch (D) was caught on corruption .. he faces 4 Years.

 

Yes H A L did not invoke a fuel charge but having lower operating costs associated now, would make me HOPE ( do you remember that Hospital Ship...), with fuel charges etc.. lowering the price would make for a great Press Series Release Countrywide...

 

Look at the stop in old San Juan, PR thats just a few hours to dump garbage and fuel up , I took pictures , but the passengers have to be back on the Noordam by Noon and its Sunday so not many if any shops and the US Park is closed... guest have to wake up at 5-6a to go through US Customs as well ...why do the passengers have to pay the Port charges for a quickie?

 

I was hearing the NEW song yesterday too.. n the Good Ship HammyDam ....:eek: ;)

 

Everytime I think I have a bead on you, you go off to places no man should go.

I am in Barrington, Illinois, about 35 miles NW of Chicago, in the land beyond ORD.

Mercer what -county?

And what does SJ have to do with anything?

But I do LOVE the tune. I'll file it away for another parody.

And now, back to our sponsors and OP. Sorry for the temporary hijack.

[AAAAmerican]

Everytime I think I have a bead on you, you go off to places no man should go.

I am in Barrington, Illinois, about 35 miles NW of Chicago, in the land beyond ORD.

Mercer what -county?

And what does SJ have to do with anything?

But I do LOVE the tune. I'll file it away for another parody.

And now, back to our sponsors and OP. Sorry for the temporary hijack.

 

 

Yes I have been places none have ever been. Lk Rudolph ... N. Kenya/Uganda

 

No cruise ships on that major body of water only a few fishing skiffs..

 

Mercer is Mercer County NJ still has only 21..;)

 

Your up near a nice area and so interesting in knowledge.. a school by no means for fools or drools..

 

S J is a very important injection.. as why does HAL charge Cruise Guests for this and a only a few hour port call.. .. do you remember Blue Laws here in NJ Bergen is the only County left with these.

 

S J has the Sunday stops with the MS Noordam IV on both 10 and/or 11 day cruises.. both only a few hours too to dump refuse refuel and give the cruise shoppers an hour to shop maybe less .. if H A L stayed longer just hink of the REVENUES it could retain as well attain by side trips... etc.... Puerto Rico has one of the Largest Islands in the Sea there so many Ship Excursions can be done.. CA CHING CA CHING... thats why i brought up S J too..

 

H AL may have to reshedule and make S J a better Ship Stop or with more time and revenues generated to them it would really be a Profitable Port of Call not just a garbage drop off point..

 

So yes then it would increase profits and have a stable effect on the Cruise Price too..

:D :D

[hammybee]

Yes I have been places none have ever been. Lk Rudolph ... N. Kenya/Uganda

 

No cruise ships on that major body of water only a few fishing skiffs..

 

Mercer is Mercer County NJ still has only 21..;)

 

Your up near a nice area and so interesting in knowledge.. a school by no means for fools or drools..

 

S J is a very important injection.. as why does HAL charge Cruise Guests for this and a only a few hour port call.. .. do you remember Blue Laws here in NJ Bergen is the only County left with these.

 

S J has the Sunday stops with the MS Noordam IV on both 10 and/or 11 day cruises.. both only a few hours too to dump refuse refuel and give the cruise shoppers an hour to shop maybe less .. if H A L stayed longer just hink of the REVENUES it could retain as well attain by side trips... etc.... Puerto Rico has one of the Largest Islands in the Sea there so many Ship Excursions can be done.. CA CHING CA CHING... thats why i brought up S J too..

 

H AL may have to reshedule and make S J a better Ship Stop or with more time and revenues generated to them it would really be a Profitable Port of Call not just a garbage drop off point..

 

So yes then it would increase profits and have a stable effect on the Cruise Price too..

:D :D

I remember the blue laws in Bergen. BTW, there is also a Camp Rudolph/Lake in Santa Claus Indiana and this explains it all:)

[kryos]

I had always understood that the price could be increased up until date of sailing, but that clause in the contract allowing it has never been implemented. If it were to be implemented then the passenger may cancel without penalty is the other side of the deal.

I guess that as long as the passenger has the option of cancelling without penalty, there really is nothing unfair about it. But that would really suck if three months before sailing, the price went up significantly, and you had already secured non-refundable airplane tickets to the port. Now what do you do? You're between a rock and a hard place. Either forfeit the increased fare for the cruise, or forfeit the unused airline tickets.

 

So, I guess the only way around this "rule," is that when you find a great deal, book and pay in full IMMEDIATELY.

 

Let's just hope HAL doesn't start implementing this clause, cause if they ever do it won't be safe to book more than a couple of months out.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[AAAAmerican]

I remember the blue laws in Bergen. BTW, there is also a Camp Rudolph/Lake in Santa Claus Indiana and this explains it all:)

 

 

Yes that is where they probaly took the name from..

 

A Borough over has two St. Nicolas Avenues...

Union Co was the last too.

A man was arrested in Prospect Park an old Dutch town (DRY, only 2 in NJ are) One Mile Square in Passaic Co for fixing his van that had a radiator hose broken..

 

*YIKES* yes the Laws are not just made there they are enforced too.:D :D

[AAAAmerican]

I guess that as long as the passenger has the option of cancelling without penalty, there really is nothing unfair about it. But that would really suck if three months before sailing, the price went up significantly, and you had already secured non-refundable airplane tickets to the port. Now what do you do? You're between a rock and a hard place. Either forfeit the increased fare for the cruise, or forfeit the unused airline tickets.

 

So, I guess the only way around this "rule," is that when you find a great deal, book and pay in full IMMEDIATELY.

 

Let's just hope HAL doesn't start implementing this clause, cause if they ever do it won't be safe to book more than a couple of months out.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

 

Yes such a truism Maam.

 

Like when the Rates increase and your stuck getting a much loer rate in a financial vehicle as in a CD FDIC insured .. the penalty sometimes is a less than the benefit of the higher rates...

 

We usually now like to book cruises now since the WTC tragedy almost up until 30-60 days prior rates are lowest then ,here in this area. Some lines ... do not honor lowering prices ... we usually pay in full.

 

Cruise guests are not paid or there time spent ever.

[billathome]

I booked a cruise with HAL in the summer of 1978 for Feb, 1979 our fifth wedding aniversary. That was not long after everyone said 'if gas goes up to 50 cents a gallon we would stop driving!!!!!!!'

 

A couple of months later the TA called to say HAL was adding $150 pp fuel surcharge beginning in 1979. Would we like to reschedule to Dec. '78 to avoid the increase. That is what we did. We thought it was very thoughtful of HAL.

 

Things have certainly changed but we are still cruising with HAL.

[BumperII]

There is another thread about an alleged HAL computer glitch. I responded to it and thought it might be worthwhile to share here something that 6 different HAL reps told me today:

 

Hammybee: This is a really great thread! Thanks for all the information and thanks to all the other posters for the additional input.

But when it is all said and done, we love cruising, and meeting all the wonderful shipmates onboard. After each cruise, we find ourselves counting down the days until we can get back on another HAL ship. If HAL did have to increase fares, I think I would close all my windows and gripe profusely for a short time. Then I would pay the fare increase, pack my bags and go on the cruise anyway.:D

[hammybee]

At the end of the day, or perhaps at the begining of this day, these terms are not unique to HAL. All the cruise lines have and need the ability to protect themselves in the event of error or unforseen increases in costs, given they are operating in a futures market.

 

We expect to share in the benefits of price reductions before we make payment in full. And this is balanced by sharing the risk of a potential fare increase in the rare chance of human error or unforeseen significant increases in costs.

 

As passengers, we routinely get the benefits of price reductions prior to final payment versus a rare situation like this that may or may not even be in HAL's control.

[newmexicoNita]

Hammydear; I think there really may have been a pricing glitch. We were pricing a superior suite for a 10 day Mex Riv on HAL and the site showed a price of 1600.00pp. I know that is very low and called the agency to verify. There computer showed that HAL had sent that price, at my urging she called HAL to double check and was informed there was a glitch and that the price listed was incorrect and would not, of course, be honored.

Glad you realized and your agent did check with HAL. If I ever see a price that seems out of line I check it out. NMNita