Personal DVD player in the Dining room?

[kryos]

I can see where that would be the lesser of two evils, but an even better choice would be to remove the child from the situation in the first place.

Makes perfect sense to me. Or, if you want to "try" the child in the dining room ... see how he/she does ... that's fine too. But just be prepared to remove the child if it becomes obvious they cannot tolerate an extended meal.

 

Look, I'm not against kids ... despite what some people on this board think. I'm getting at odds with my fellow CCers on another thread where I stated that there is no reason I can see that children should be banned from the aft pool if they are well-behaved there. I am all for children enjoying as much of the cruise experience as they can handle ... just so long as their behavior does not infringe upon their fellow passengers' rights to a peaceful cruise as well. Well, when a baby or child is "acting out" in the formal dining room aboard ship, that affects everyone's cruise experience. In that case, fairness dictates the child be removed. If the child is fidgeting and kicking the chairs in front of him at the show, then he has to be removed ... he can't be allowed to wreck it for other passengers. But, if a child can be well-behaved and has the demeanor where he can keep himself entertained quietly for the duration of a sit down dinner in the dining room, then by all means ... bring him to the dining room. Some children can handle it. Others can't. A good parent has to have the judgment to know the difference and act accordingly.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Wow! Have never encountered DVD players at dinner before! I can't believe that any parent would allow their children to bring a DVD to the dining room on a cruise. Especially if they were seated with other passengers!

I wonder, though ... when you have families cruising with children, does HAL seat them at tables together? For example, is it possible you could have two families sharing a table for eight ... maybe with four adults and four kids? If that is the case, then I would play it by ear regarding the DVD player or Gameboy. If other children at the table have them, then I might be willing to let my child bring one to the dining room the next night. If families with children are "segregated" at tables with like cruisers, then maybe a couple of children playing between courses with their Gameboys would not be so intrusive to fellow diners.

 

Just a thought ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[cruzincurt]

Seems simple to me. There is a time and place for everything. There is a time and place to play and a time and place to eat and socialize.

[SDHALFAN]

Did I read that right?

 

Rita, ........................... No wonder you haven't got any children.............!

 

Brad 98,

 

I sincerely hope that you don't use that expression often. There are thousands (if not thousands upon thousands) of women who would love nothing more than to bear children but for one medical reason or another are unable to. A remark like that would be devastating to them. Not every woman is childless by choice.

 

Valerie

[peaches from georgia]

For example, is it possible you could have two families sharing a table for eight ... maybe with four adults and four kids? If that is the case, then I would play it by ear regarding the DVD player or Gameboy. If other children at the table have them, then I might be willing to let my child bring one to the dining room the next night. a

And very quickly the atmosphere in the dining room which had been one of elegance and fine dining has become more like Chuck E Cheese. It wouldn't take long.

[PCruzer]

And very quickly the atmosphere in the dining room which had been one of elegance and fine dining has become more like Chuck E Cheese. It wouldn't take long.

 

I agree with you!

[carolcp]

We must be the odd ducks in the parenting job from some of the other parents being discussed. We took our children out to dinner with us since they were old enough to sit in a high chair. When they acted up, one of us took them out to the car until they settled down. We took our older daughter on the old Rotterdam to Alaska when she was 2 and 3. Between the time change and late dining dinner came very late for her. It was great. We got to the table at her bed time, ordered her dinner and every night right after appertizers she fell asleep at the table. We put 2 chairs together and stretched her out to sleep and poor hubby "had" to eat daughters dinner every night, including her icecream!

 

On later cruises when the girls were 9 and 5 they would be at Club Hal during our dinner time. They didn't want to eat with us. Again we had late seating. We would take them to the lido for dinner, off to Club Hal and then hubby and I would have a nice dinner together. When we tried to "force" them to eat with us, they said they prefered to be with the kids. Hey I understand that. Now that they have been trained to act properly in public is is wonderful to hear from others at our table how they actually enjoyed sitting with us and our children. Their manners still aren't up to Ms. Manners standards but at least they don't throw food across the table.

 

If you don't start early, the children will never know how to act in various situtations. I never allowed them to run around the table at home or at restaurants.

 

Carol

[kryos]

And very quickly the atmosphere in the dining room which had been one of elegance and fine dining has become more like Chuck E Cheese. It wouldn't take long.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. It's not an ideal situation at all. But I'm just considering the alternative ... bored kids acting up, toddlers crying, and parents who opt to just ignore the situation and let their kids act out.

 

Personally, I'd prefer the kids be happily (and quietly) engaged with their DVDs or Gameboys than have my dining experience wrecked with their antics. I can ignore the Gameboys way across the dining room, but I can't ignore a screaming child or a rambunctious eight year old who is running around the dining room.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[DMRick]

Exactly. No one is saying this is a perfect thing..but in most cases, the DVD player can easily be on a lap, with headphones. Other than a nice quiet child most people wouldn't even know it was there. I don't happen to think that a parent with a tired or cranky child, who has had a long day, should have to always eat in the Lido, if they have an alternative. This sounds like a good one to me. I guess kids could be "paid off" with a bribe as another person mentioned, but really, is one way better than the other? For the person who asked if my parents ever offered me something to be quiet..nope, times were different then. The only thing you got offered back in the olden days was a good swatting if you didn't behave. I'm glad we are past those days now.

We have no idea if this is an everyday thing, or if they actually only ate in the dining room the one time, and wanted to have the experience, yet realized the child wouldn't make it through a long dinner. I'd cut the parents a break myself, and enjoy the quiet. A DVD with headphones is certainly not ChuckeCheese or Denny's.

 

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. It's not an ideal situation at all. But I'm just considering the alternative ... bored kids acting up, toddlers crying, and parents who opt to just ignore the situation and let their kids act out.

 

Personally, I'd prefer the kids be happily (and quietly) engaged with their DVDs or Gameboys than have my dining experience wrecked with their antics. I can ignore the Gameboys way across the dining room, but I can't ignore a screaming child or a rambunctious eight year old who is running around the dining room.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

We have no idea if this is an everyday thing, or if they actually only ate in the dining room the one time, and wanted to have the experience, yet realized the child wouldn't make it through a long dinner. I'd cut the parents a break myself, and enjoy the quiet. A DVD with headphones is certainly not ChuckeCheese or Denny's.

I have to say that I certainly have never seen it ... but then I generally don't sail on cruises with lots of kids, so it could just be that I've missed it.

 

The more I think about this, the more I think the DVD players are probably at least a workable solution. Sure, mom and dad are on a cruise and they, of course, don't want to eat in the Lido every night. But they are decent parents and don't want their children causing a disturbance that will bother other diners. So, what's the best way to handle this? Do we constantly take turns throughout dinner taking the little one for a walk as soon as she begins to cry ... running after the toddler who is up and down out of his seat every ten minutes? What kind of a dining experience is mom and dad going to have with all these antics going on? In the alternative, we know the lil one likes her Disney DVDs, and the toddler loves his Gameboy. Why not let them bring those things along to dinner to play with in between courses? Makes sense. The kids are happy and not bothering anybody, and mom and dad get to enjoy their meal too.

 

Of course, it's not an ideal solution ... but let's be honest. Would most parents take their very young children out to a fine restaurant on land knowing that it could take a good two hours to enjoy a dinner? No, of course not. Usually at home mom and dad would make arrangements for a sitter the night they wanted to dine in this manner. After all, I spend a $100 to $150 for dinner, I want that dinner to be quiet, romantic, etc. I wouldn't even dream of taking the kids along. But, on a cruise ship, it's a different story. Unless large families are traveling together ... whereby they can "co-op" the babysitting duties each night ... parents have no choice but to dine with their children most nights. Sitters are not always readily available on the ship, and furthermore maybe I don't want a stranger staying alone in my cabin with the children. So, it's a matter of either the kids eat in the dining room, or the parents have to eat with them in the Lido every night. Many times that's just not a satisfactory solution. So maybe a compromise is struck ... we'll eat in the Lido on port days ... when the kids have been running around with us all day and are naturally tired. But on sea days we will eat as a family in the dining room, bringing along plenty of toys and whatnot to keep the kids entertained for what could wind up being a 1.5 to two hour meal. And, as long as the kids aren't bothering others at the tables around them ... what's the problem? And, I've said this before ... frankly, I don't consider the dining room on HAL or any other cruise ship to be on the same level with a Ruth Chris Steakhouse or a Chart House on land ... a place where Gameboys and DVD players would clearly be out of place. I'd classify the cruise ship dining room as something more along the lines of perhaps an Outback or Porterhouse Steakhouse ... a bit down the ladder from a Ruth Chris and perhaps a place where a child enjoying a DVD through his personal headphones would not be entirely out of place.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Brad98]

Hey Rita,

 

You have changed your tune a bit! and for the better. :)

 

I know which choice I would rather make, and it would be the DVD player, infact, I might even invest in one, although saying that, I have never had a problem with my little one on cruises, we have always managed to keep him entertained. He really enjoyed 'escorting' me to dinner on the formal night of our last cruise, when my husband felt unwell and didn't want to attend, he was only 5 at the time, and he suffers from a neurological condition!

 

I understand that there are people out there that don't like children, and would prefer not to be in their company, but something that surprises me is that children are allowed in the Pinnacle Grill.

 

We have only ever sailed Disney Cruiseline before, and they have very strictly adherred to 'Adult Only' areas, including a pool and their 'fine dining experience' (forgot what it's called I will edit this when I remember).

 

I think that all cruiselines should do the same thing, and have adult only places, afterall, children have their own special places ie Club Hal.

 

I love my child unconditionally, but it is really nice to occasionally have some 'me' time. Regards Me.

[gizmo]

And very quickly the atmosphere in the dining room which had been one of elegance and fine dining has become more like Chuck E Cheese. It wouldn't take long.

 

LOL at "Chuck E Cheese".

 

I don't think DVD's or games belong in the dining room. If the child cannot sit through the dinner there is room service and the Lido.

[Brad98]

Tried to edit my earlier post to put in Palo's, which is Disney's Adult only fine dining experience but for some reason it won't let me!! Regards Me

[kryos]

Hey Rita,

 

You have changed your tune a bit! and for the better. :)

 

...

 

but something that surprises me is that children are allowed in the Pinnacle Grill.

Well, you know what they say ... a lady always has the perogative of changing her mind. :)

 

Frankly, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that I'd rather the kids be happy and quiet ... so I can enjoy my time in the dining room. If a personal DVD player or gameboy will accomplish that ... play away! :) Seems the best solution for everyone's dining pleasure ... the kids, their parents and other passengers who don't want to listen to a screaming child throughout dinner.

 

As for the Pinnacle, I'm not so sure a baby or very young child would be allowed to dine there. At least I've never seen anyone younger than perhaps teenagers eating there.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[navybankerteacher]

When you stop to think about it, the question is not just about DVD's in the dining room: of course it is discourteous to others at the table and should not be encouraged. Perhaps the real question goes to the sort of self-absorbed creatures the over-indulgent parents are raising. My children and grandchildren will have to share this planet with them. It is not simply a matter of parental choice - it is a matter of imposing boorish, badly raised brats upon the rest of society. Each new generation can be seen as a new invasion of barbarians -- if the adults do not civilize the young, the young will take over the world -- as they have in some environments (see many high schools) to the detriment of our civilization.

[kryos]

When you stop to think about it, the question is not just about DVD's in the dining room: of course it is discourteous to others at the table and should not be encouraged.

You make some excellent points, however ... I am assuming the family with kids would either be seated at their own table (thus not being discourteous to any tablemates) or they would be seated at a table with another family, whose own kids might also be using these personal entertainment devices.

 

No one ever responded to my question, though. Does HAL tend to seat families with children either at their own tables or at tables with another such family? They wouldn't seat, say, a single with a family of five ... three kids, plus mom and dad ... to round out a table for six, would they?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Standiego]

What is this woman thinking? I read This message in the family section and could not believe it. I could only think that they have the TV on 24/7 while they are at home.

 

TACKY

[SarahQ]

When you stop to think about it, the question is not just about DVD's in the dining room: of course it is discourteous to others at the table and should not be encouraged. Perhaps the real question goes to the sort of self-absorbed creatures the over-indulgent parents are raising. My children and grandchildren will have to share this planet with them. It is not simply a matter of parental choice - it is a matter of imposing boorish, badly raised brats upon the rest of society. Each new generation can be seen as a new invasion of barbarians -- if the adults do not civilize the young, the young will take over the world -- as they have in some environments (see many high schools) to the detriment of our civilization.

Mmmmm...nothing like sweeping generalizations about 'those kids today' - then again, I'm not surprised as this is exactly what older people always say about younger people, in every generation, probably back to the beginning of civilization. So, I guess I can let that one go...

 

However (and I will once again state that I don't agree with having a DVD player in the dining room), how does letting your child watch a *personal* DVD player with headphones, so that your family as well as your fellow passengers can enjoy their meal, equate to being an over-indulgent parent? I just can't compute that one...sorry.

 

Its funny, but it seems to me that in the 'old days', when I was a kid, people in general were a lot more accepting of children in everyday situations (and yes, a family vacation, is an everyday situation). As parents, I completely agree that we have a responsibility to raise our children correctly, with manners, and with the knowledge of how to act in every social situation. But, I also think that those who have left their child-rearing years behind could perhaps be a little more flexible. After all, exactly how should I teach my child how to act correctly at a formal dinner if I never take him to one?

[SarahQ]

TACKY

 

Hmmm...more or less so than single-word posts?

 

Couldn't resist...

[carolcp]

Rita, to try to answer your question about seating.

 

Our first 2 cruises with a 2 and later 3 year old, we asked for a table for 4, they did not place a single person at our table so it was just the three of us. At that age we did not want to interfere with others just in case our daughter did not behave up to standards.

 

Later when we had 2 daughters aged 9 and 5, we again asked for a table for 4. Most of the nights the girls were at Club Hal.

 

Cruise with the kids age 16 and 12, table for 4 was assigned to us. There were not many kids on that cruise, it was a 14 cruise to Norway.

 

Cruise with the kids age 17 and 13 we got a table for 8. The first night there were only 6 of us and I could see the fear on the other couples face when we first arrived. Our daughters were and still are well mannered and behaved themselves. The next night another couple joined us. They had left a table that had a widower and his son, aged about 12. I don't know who had the worse manners, the father or the son. They both ate with their hands and threw the bits of pieces of food to the center of the table. They chewed with their mouths open and other not so polite manners. The new couple told us that at first they were leery of joining another table with children but by the end of the cruise we were all great friends.

 

I am just glad they didn't seat us with the other family. On the cruises we have been on, I never noticed that they seat the families with other families. Do they put all the 80 year olds with other 80 year olds? And all the 20's somethings with others? I am glad they mix it up, let the kids see and appreciate that there are other people out there, some with great life experiences to share.

 

After a few days on cruises, my girls would engage people of all ages and learned so much, it was amazing. They met a woman scientist who helped engineer some early computer components, a man who helped invent the auto pilot for airplanes, an astrophyisist, they met an elderly man who had been a prisoner of war in a Russian gulag, they met people from all over the world and learned of their life, they discussed literature with teachers from the UK. I hope that HAL never separates the families to a different part of the ship or tables. It is no fun just being around people who are just like yourself.

 

Of course this all is my very humble opinion.

 

Carol

[nrdsb4]

However (and I will once again state that I don't agree with having a DVD player in the dining room), how does letting your child watch a *personal* DVD player with headphones, so that your family as well as your fellow passengers can enjoy their meal, equate to being an over-indulgent parent? I just can't compute that one...sorry.

 

I guess by saying overindulgent they mean the inability to say no to audio visual equipment at the table and require the child to participate in the dining experience? Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Its funny, but it seems to me that in the 'old days', when I was a kid, people in general were a lot more accepting of children in everyday situations (and yes, a family vacation, is an everyday situation). As parents, I completely agree that we have a responsibility to raise our children correctly, with manners, and with the knowledge of how to act in every social situation. But, I also think that those who have left their child-rearing years behind could perhaps be a little more flexible. After all, exactly how should I teach my child how to act correctly at a formal dinner if I never take him to one?

 

I agree, but it would be difficult to teach your child how to act correctly if her head was glued to a portable TV. Learning the art of conversation would also be impossible.

 

I have brought my children to many a nice dining venue. When they were toddlers, we didn't always make it through the meal (had to remove a fussy one), but gradually over time they got it down. They are now a delight at dinner (ages 12 and 16). We have received many compliments on them. But you're right, that didn't just "happen," it required experience, practice, and patience (on my part, not on others around us).

[navybankerteacher]

Children do belong - I am delighted to have them around - they bring wonder and fresh views -- and letting them interact with other adults is a great way for parents to expose them to a civilized world. However, allowing them to withdraw into their DVD is the intellectual equivalent of letting them eat candy for breakfast. I would far prefer listening to a child act like a child to seeing his parents fail in civilizing him. Most children react well to adults who are fair to them.

[DMRick]

Wow, maybe we better just go back to smacking the kids if they don't behave to prove we aren't over indulgent parents.

I'm a senior, and I sure don't see life like you do! A DVD with headphones, to me, is being a curteous parent (as long as I don't have to listen to it), when you recognize that your child may not be able to sit quietly at this meal. I say kudo's to the parents for not deciding this was the time to teach table manners, and letting me enjoy my meal.

For me and my husband, it would be a joy to sit at a table with a young family, and dream about how nice it was when ours were youngsters, with or without DVD.

 

Perhaps the real question goes to the sort of self-absorbed creatures the over-indulgent parents are raising. My children and grandchildren will have to share this planet with them. It is not simply a matter of parental choice - it is a matter of imposing boorish, badly raised brats upon the rest of society. Each new generation can be seen as a new invasion of barbarians --.

[peaches from georgia]

Maybe the real issue is that if a child has to have a tv and headphones with him to 'be quiet and behave', is it a possibility that he is being put into an adult situation that is not appropriate for his age? There are many other child-friendly options for families on the ship that the child can actually participate in and have fun while the parents enjoy the adult activities. Isn't this the reason for Club HAL in the evenings?

[DMRick]

Sometimes, when on vacaitons, such as cruises, DisneyWorld, etc, kids get overstimulated. On those days (and not knowing in advance their child would be "excited" at dinner time), perhaps the parents had not made other plans, and thought they should instead, be prepared, and bring something that will act to start bringing the child off it's high, and at the same time, allow others to have a peaceful meal.

 

I'm glad we didn't start to cruise until our children were grown, if it meant that my parenting skills would be put on the block, because I thought I was doing something good, keeping my children occupied during a long dinner. I never went on vacation, just to put my child elsewhere at mealtime. Just because a child is using a DVD player at a dinner on a cruise, doesn't mean this is the everyday norm. Gosh, I am just not getting how a DVD player (and I've seen kids with them on their laps) and headphones would negate anyone elses fancy dining experience. This isn't the Waldorf (is that even still open).

 

Years ago, we had someone come and teach our church about sedar (we were paying her). We were a church with lots of young children, who had always been welcome at everything. A couple of the kids coo'd in their high chairs, and the crabby older woman, asked that they be removed. They were cooing!! While the parents were removing their children, the Pastor asked them to stop..and said to his ears, there was nothing more joyful than a child's sound. The woman said in her church, children were made to go to the nursery, and not allowed at adult functions. This was a family function..much as I think a dinner on a cruise is. This reminds me of that. All of the children had toys to keep them occupied..I don't see where this would be any different. We have just changed the type of toy. Is a toy always needed? Prob not..but since it shouldn't be bothering anyone, why assume the kids of today are going to heck in a handbasket, just because the parents wanted every to enjoy their dinner experience, including the child. Maybe for part of it, he'll start to learn about dining out..but maybe for the rest of it, he's just too tired.

 

Maybe the real issue is that if a child has to have a tv and headphones with him to 'be quiet and behave', is it a possibility that he is being put into an adult situation that is not appropriate for his age? There are many other child-friendly options for families on the ship that the child can actually participate in and have fun while the parents enjoy the adult activities. Isn't this the reason for Club HAL in the evenings?