Is anyone shocked by the poverty on the islands that the cruise visits?

[discjoker]

Once you left the nice blocks of shops that were polished up for the tourists, the buildings were falling apart, there were people sleeping on the streets, etc.

 

 

You don't get out much, do you? Every American city has areas where buildings are falling apart and people are sleeping on the streets. It really isn't a shocking sight. Sad, maybe. Shocking, no.

 

The thing is that these islands are impoverished by our standards however that is life as they know it. It is a simple, modest, and yes poor life...compared to how Americans live.

 

Also, compared to how others around the world live, they are very rich. There are many many poorer places on this earth. So it is all about what you are comparing it to.

 

Do I feel sorry for them? Not really. That is how they live. People around the world live very different lives. That is just how it is.

[melika091900]

"I for one, and I know I will be flamed for this but here it goes anyway, It is not my fault that these people live there, bred there, or are born there. Do I feel sorry for them, well if I look at it from some of the standpoints listed here sure I do. Do I feel sorry for the kids? Yes, but to a certain extent, they don't know any different because they have never had it any different. We as Americans can only take care of so many. I will continue to visit because I enjoy the weather and some places of interest. Their poverty will not keep me away, but it will not influence me to just hand money over to them either. They need to work for their income as MOST of us do here in United States. Don't get me wrong we donate more than our share every year. "

 

 

I completly agree with this.....

 

and another poster said they think we are rich,,

ok but i hope they know what everything costs in the USA..

like for instance, my husbands parents live in samoa, they dont pay rent . they own their land, like an inheritance.

so everytime they call they want money...

they dont understand that yeah we make more money than them, but everything else here costs too, our median home prices in ca are 600,000

not to mention everything else...

 

to the person i quoted i agree with the one sentence alot,

they dont know any different because they never had it any different ..

exactly ,

it may look like they are so poor, etc etc, but its their way of life

when my husband came here from samoa 10 years ago, he came with just the clothes on his back, nothing else,

he came here, worked , worked hard, and now has alot ...

true theres a lot of jobs in this country, but the person applying needs to want to work,, so i applaud my husband for that, and now whenever he wants something , i say , go ahead honey you deserve it..

and now lets book another cruise..

:)

 

its just life, its sad to see this everywhere , but it is EVERYWHERE... i would never avoid going anywhere because of it.

lifes too short ... its better to get out there and see things ,

[GeekyMom]

Yes, there is poverty in the islands such as Jamacia, the Bahamas, etc., but not all of the islands. Bermuda is an incredible island and economically established as other destinations in the Carribean.

 

But there is also stark poverty in parts of rural Mexico as well as in South America, where I saw people sleeping in cardboard boxes on the sidewalks of Ipanema.

 

If you really want to help the people, continue to visit their islands for the sake of seeing beautiful tropical lands. This boosts their economy and helps them feed those families mentioned here.

 

The poor and the sick will always be among us, and this is a sad fact of life. Yes, it does not help the people or their image to be aggressive towards tourist, but when I travel I have an agenda and can pretty much ignore the sales pitches (as annoying as it can be) when they do not benefit me. At the forefront of my mind mostly is just to have a good time and explore the islands.

 

Just my .2

[Aquahound]

 

And Aquahound, I have the opportunity to visit your lovely state once or twice a year, and take offence at your general characterization of "Canadians" as being people who have no respect for your local laws or communities. I will remind myself to stay away from your community.

 

 

I think you took me a little out of context. Let me be more clear on what I meant. In the winter, snowbirds come from all over. My post said "Northerners and Canadians." This did not mean that all northerners (which I am by the way) and Canadians are rude, only a certain few. The whole point I was trying to make is that you need to respect the land and the people you are visiting.

[BobBeaSea]

Shocked by poverty in non Western industrialized nations? Of course not. There are 6.5 billion people on the planet and well over half of them live on $5.00 per day or less.

 

The sight of abject poverty is probably a little unsettling to those who are seeing it for the first time. Unfortunately poverty will always be with us.

[BobBeaSea]

I for one, and I know I will be flamed for this but here it goes anyway, It is not my fault that these people live there, bred there, or are born there. Do I feel sorry for them, well if I look at it from some of the standpoints listed here sure I do. Do I feel sorry for the kids? Yes, but to a certain extent, they don't know any different because they have never had it any different. We as Americans can only take care of so many. I will continue to visit because I enjoy the weather and some places of interest. Their poverty will not keep me away, but it will not influence me to just hand money over to them either. They need to work for their income as MOST of us do here in United States. Don't get me wrong we donate more than our share every year.

I think these sorrows and sympathy should be steered toward our people here in the USA. And yes Kurbanfan you are so right. Because of these brave men and women we are living in a free Country, so we should think about them, each and everyone one of us that are working , that are retired, and to the ones that will be working in the future we all are doing a job that contributes to our Government and our freedom. So not only do our soldiers deserve respect all that have and are and will be working deserve the same respect! And certainly not the ones that are sitting on their Duffs because they are lazy and think they deserve a free ride in this Country.

Sorry about the preaching!!

JMO! :D

 

You are wrong and right. In total dollars the U.S. contributes far more money to foreign aid than anyone else. This is only natural as the U.S. has the 3rd largest population and by far and away the wealthiest economy on the planet. The downside is the U.S. ranks dead last out of 22 industrialised nations in foreign aid as a percentage of GDP. That being said, I for one applaud the generosity of the United States and the generosity of her people.

[cruzwpj]

Cruising to islands that have a much lower standard of living, sometimes barely surviving, greatly inforces the fact that we as Americans take so much for granted. I come home each day thankful for what I have and try to appreciate what I have and not what I think I need. I have captured some awesome photographs of children at some of the port cities and this is a contant reminder to be grateful. If anyone saw Oprah yesterday about the woman from Missouri that rescued the fish children in Africa, what a gut wrenching story. Again, thank you God for what I have as an American.

Myval from Missouri

[Latvish]

We have been to many places in the caribbean and during a stop in Belize while on a bus tour I asked a question. What type of welfare system do you have? The young lady that was in charge said" If you dont do something you dont eat" Everyone sells something or creates something to survive. The street vendors maybe pushy but they are just trying to make a buck. I have bought many items from those people selling out of a cart and even though the quality was a bit lower I got certain items for a fraction of what I would have paid inside a store.

 

What do you think would happen if we did away with the welfare system in the states? In other words all the millions of dollars that the government gives away each week to people that can not find jobs. Let alone the number of people that have no thought of ever looking for a job. But wait by there mailbox every month for that check to come. I live in a town that has seen 4 GM shops close and many people have said "I am not working for minimum wage" I will wait till I get in the shop. Well in June another plant will close. Look at how many Americans say that they will not work for minimum wage. People in other countries would jump at that chance. But are we too proud to work for $6.95 an hour. No we are greedy we want more.

 

If we take away the welfare system you will see people on the street here in the UNITED STATES doing the same thing you see down there. But as Americans we will say we dont want these people on the streets and suddenly we are giving out handouts again to get them off our streets.

 

We have a few individuals here in town that hold up signs saying "Will work for food". They make more in one day off of sympathy than I make in a week. But yet they keep doing it and we keep giving them what they ask for.

 

Just like I never saw anyone really wash a window at stop light. But I did when I went to Miami. And the funny thing is there were signs on certain street corners that said "NO WINDOW WASHING" But yet these people know they can get a buck from someone just for smearing your windshield.

 

People in the islands are working for anything they can get and if they only make $10 in a day they will treasure that more than people would in the states. We are looking at making BIG BUCKS to be happy. Yes we can afford to cruise but we save up all year after busting our butts.

 

And the one thing that all ways gets me steaming is when someone comes into my store and says" Well what do you expect from people making Minimum wage?" You know at least somepeople are trying to get ahead versus waiting for that check in the mailbox.

 

In every country there are the rich the poor and the middle class. And you can have them in the Caribbean, Denver, Manhattan, Paris. If you want to see it just open your eyes. But many will not venture off the beaten path of most cities. But if you do, you will see the same thing here.

 

My two cents

[elodie]

You don't get out much, do you? Every American city has areas where buildings are falling apart and people are sleeping on the streets. It really isn't a shocking sight. Sad, maybe. Shocking, no.

 

The thing is that these islands are impoverished by our standards however that is life as they know it. It is a simple, modest, and yes poor life...compared to how Americans live.

 

Also, compared to how others around the world live, they are very rich. There are many many poorer places on this earth. So it is all about what you are comparing it to.

 

Do I feel sorry for them? Not really. That is how they live. People around the world live very different lives. That is just how it is.

 

Um...there's really no reason for you to have been rude to me. I never said I was shocked. I said I was saddened, and there's a difference.

 

It happens that I've been to 35 countries on all six inhabited continents, I've lived in India, Africa and Eastern Europe, and my home base in the States is the Bronx. So yeah, I've seen poverty. Quite a lot of it, in fact.

 

What struck me about Mexico was the contrast between how hard they tried to make the tourist areas pretty, and how much they neglected the rest of their cities. Why not expend more efforts into helping their own people survive?

 

You're right, people around the world live differently. I am not suggesting everyone in the world needs a McMansion and an SUV in the driveway to be happy (Lord knows I don't). However, when I see people living in abject poverty, without access to education, clean water or a safe place to sleep, yes, I do have empathy for them, and no, I don't think it's acceptable. I think everyone in the world deserves that. It's callous and cruel just to shrug it off with "hey, that's how it goes."

[LadyV_39]

What do you think would happen if we did away with the welfare system in the states? In other words all the millions of dollars that the government gives away each week to people that can not find jobs. Let alone the number of people that have no thought of ever looking for a job. But wait by there mailbox every month for that check to come. I live in a town that has seen 4 GM shops close and many people have said "I am not working for minimum wage" I will wait till I get in the shop. Well in June another plant will close. Look at how many Americans say that they will not work for minimum wage. People in other countries would jump at that chance. But are we too proud to work for $6.95 an hour. No we are greedy we want more.

 

I have to disagree here. I live in New York City. And I can tell you that it is impossible to live here on the federal mininum wage of $5.15 an hour. In fact, our mininum wage was increased several years ago but because the cost of living here is high and our taxes are higher, living on mininum wage here is still hard. Sure there are lazy people, but others are being realistic when they say they can't work for mininum wage because they know they would have a hard time making ends meet. The yearly salary of someone making minimum wage is still more than what some people on certain islands make in a year, but then the cost of living in certain American cities are high as well. Everything is relative.

[shops54]

Shocked by poverty in non Western industrialized nations? Of course not. There are 6.5 billion people on the planet and well over half of them live on $5.00 per day or less.

 

The sight of abject poverty is probably a little unsettling to those who are seeing it for the first time. Unfortunately poverty will always be with us.

 

And that makes it ok to be callous and disinterested?

[Jane110]

 

One thing that really irritates me is seeing our tourists acting rude and arrogant to those who live on the islands. It is their home. Granted, they need our tourist dollars. But still, it is their home. Living in a tourist town myself, I see this daily. Every winter, we are inundated with northerners and Canadians who have no respect for our local laws or communities. It's a shame. And, this has led to local hatred of certain visitors. I can see how some island locals would be rude to tourists. They're probably tired of dealing with their crap.

 

Yes, some people are very rude. Yet many are very compassionate and try to do what they can in small way.

 

One thing I find distasteful is the extreme haggling by tourists to beat the locals down in price. Of course, no one wants to pay $25. for a $1.00 item but when I hear people comparing notes that they bought something for $5.00 while another brags that they nickeled and dimed the guy down to $3.00 it kind of makes me sick. I'm lucky I can afford to go on a nice vacation and if I "overpay" on some trinkets, is it really going to affect my life? No. But it might help a family there.

[newmexicoNita]

I have to disagree here. I live in New York City. And I can tell you that it is impossible to live here on the federal mininum wage of $5.15 an hour. In fact, our mininum wage was increased several years ago but because the cost of living here is high and our taxes are higher, living on mininum wage here is still hard. Sure there are lazy people, but others are being realistic when they say they can't work for mininum wage because they know they would have a hard time making ends meet. The yearly salary of someone making minimum wage is still more than what some people on certain islands make in a year, but then the cost of living in certain American cities are high as well. Everything is relative.

ok, we are probably getting a little too political now but I don't think the min wage was ever meant to support a family. It is for those who want a second job, kids starting out, a way for some to supliment the family income, etc. No one really thinks a person making min wage in NYC or even in our little rural area can live on $5.15 per hour. NMnita

[newmexicoNita]

Yes, some people are very rude. Yet many are very compassionate and try to do what they can in small way.

 

One thing I find distasteful is the extreme haggling by tourists to beat the locals down in price. Of course, no one wants to pay $25. for a $1.00 item but when I hear people comparing notes that they bought something for $5.00 while another brags that they nickeled and dimed the guy down to $3.00 it kind of makes me sick. I'm lucky I can afford to go on a nice vacation and if I "overpay" on some trinkets, is it really going to affect my life? No. But it might help a family there.

Jane, the haggling is part of the game. Do you have any idea how tourists are laughed at if we don't haggle a little. While in Cozumel a few years ago DH saw a straw hat he wanted. We did try to hassle (bargain, whatever you want to call it) the guy kept saying the hat was hand made. Sure it was, that and the other 100 sitting there. Anyway DH decided not to take it. We walked about a block further and saw another street vender with the same hat for $4 less. This time he brought it and didn't haggle. NMnitail

[bakechef]

I for one, and I know I will be flamed for this but here it goes anyway, It is not my fault that these people live there, bred there, or are born there. Do I feel sorry for them, well if I look at it from some of the standpoints listed here sure I do. Do I feel sorry for the kids? Yes, but to a certain extent, they don't know any different because they have never had it any different. We as Americans can only take care of so many. I will continue to visit because I enjoy the weather and some places of interest. Their poverty will not keep me away, but it will not influence me to just hand money over to them either. They need to work for their income as MOST of us do here in United States. Don't get me wrong we donate more than our share every year.

I think these sorrows and sympathy should be steered toward our people here in the USA. And yes Kurbanfan you are so right. Because of these brave men and women we are living in a free Country, so we should think about them, each and everyone one of us that are working , that are retired, and to the ones that will be working in the future we all are doing a job that contributes to our Government and our freedom. So not only do our soldiers deserve respect all that have and are and will be working deserve the same respect! And certainly not the ones that are sitting on their Duffs because they are lazy and think they deserve a free ride in this Country.

Sorry about the preaching!!

JMO! :D

 

I know where you are coming from, but we have it pretty darn good here. I don't think that bringing our soldiers into this was really nescessary, I do feel sympathy for anyone who loses a loved one in a war, but the reality is military service is a choice, and this is one of the known downsides. I am thankful for their service, but it is not voluntary, they do get paid, if they work really hard it can be a very good career, I wish that we made as much as my sister and her husband that worked very hard for their ranks in the army. By the way I have 2 nephews in Iraq as we speak.

 

I work with many immigrants so I have a little different perspective on things, I had an employee who immigrated here from Bosnia, she lived through the war literally dodging bullets on the street, and having to carry water up 7 flights of stairs to their home, I have worked with people from russia who had to stand in lines in hopes of getting bread, we as americans cannot seem to quite wrap our heads around this.

 

We have great resources to help us out in time of need, and we need to be sensitive to those who are from countries where life is really a struggle, I agree that we need to take care of our own, and it's not our job to take care of the rest of the world. But in this day and age these people do know that their life is bad, there is tv and other media sources to help them realize that unless you live in North Korea.

 

Not a flame just another point of view

 

MAC

[LadyV_39]

ok, we are probably getting a little too political now but I don't think the min wage was ever meant to support a family. It is for those who want a second job, kids starting out, a way for some to supliment the family income, etc. No one really thinks a person making min wage in NYC or even in our little rural area can live on $5.15 per hour. NMnita

 

The mininimum wage may not have been intended to support a family but there are people out there who do work mininimum wage jobs that actually struggle to support families-a sizable percentage of whom are women and people of color. The reasons why vary, but that is the reality.

[nosmothj]

Boy do some people live a sheltered life.

 

As an example look at Grenada one of the less deelpoed islands. Hit by the same hurricane that hit New Orleans. That Isalnd has been rebiult on look at New Orelans. Its clear that most people who cruise have some money, The poverty in any USA city can be compared to any island. Homeless food lines run down appartments with out power or water.

 

Take a look at your own back yard and clean it up before passing judgement on others.

[shops54]

Yes, some people are very rude. Yet many are very compassionate and try to do what they can in small way.

 

One thing I find distasteful is the extreme haggling by tourists to beat the locals down in price. Of course, no one wants to pay $25. for a $1.00 item but when I hear people comparing notes that they bought something for $5.00 while another brags that they nickeled and dimed the guy down to $3.00 it kind of makes me sick. I'm lucky I can afford to go on a nice vacation and if I "overpay" on some trinkets, is it really going to affect my life? No. But it might help a family there.

I do so agree with you, Jane 110. My husband likes to dicker and that's fine in America - they won't sell the set of encyclopedias for less than they can afford. It makes him a great CFO. But I will absolutely not try to cheat people with less than I out of their rightful price. In fact I come prepared with bigger bills and tell them to keep the change.

[discjoker]

Jane, the haggling is part of the game. Do you have any idea how tourists are laughed at if we don't haggle a little. While in Cozumel a few years ago DH saw a straw hat he wanted. We did try to hassle (bargain, whatever you want to call it) the guy kept saying the hat was hand made. Sure it was, that and the other 100 sitting there. Anyway DH decided not to take it. We walked about a block further and saw another street vender with the same hat for $4 less. This time he brought it and didn't haggle. NMnitail

 

I agree 100%. These vendors are not getting beat down when they are haggling. These people are shrewd business men and women. Trust me, they will not let anything go unless they make a nice profit. The first price they give you is marked up sometimes 4 times what they will set it for (and with a good profit I might add). They expect you to bargain and haggle that is a part of THEIR culture.

[newmexicoNita]

The mininimum wage may not have been intended to support a family but there are people out there who do work mininimum wage jobs that actually struggle to support families-a sizable percentage of whom are women and people of color. The reasons why vary, but that is the reality.

Of course there are some; for those who do try to support a family on that type of money there are many government programs available to them as well. I still maintain it isn't meant to be enough to live on and the majority of those who work for min wage are not sole supporters of a family. NMnnita

[on board]

You are wrong and right. In total dollars the U.S. contributes far more money to foreign aid than anyone else. This is only natural as the U.S. has the 3rd largest population and by far and away the wealthiest economy on the planet. The downside is the U.S. ranks dead last out of 22 industrialised nations in foreign aid as a percentage of GDP. That being said, I for one applaud the generosity of the United States and the generosity of her people.

 

I don't mind giving, but... when our Seniors work all of their lives and don't make enough money after they retire to live something is wrong! When they don't have enough money to pay for all of their medical needs, something is wrong! IMO the money the USA keeps giving away SOME needs to be set back for them instead of giving all the other Country's our hard earned money. It needs to stay in the United States where it is earned!

[on board]

You are wrong and right. In total dollars the U.S. contributes far more money to foreign aid than anyone else. This is only natural as the U.S. has the 3rd largest population and by far and away the wealthiest economy on the planet. The downside is the U.S. ranks dead last out of 22 industrialised nations in foreign aid as a percentage of GDP. That being said, I for one applaud the generosity of the United States and the generosity of her people.

 

Thats fine to feel that way but I for one don't feel that our money we work hard for should be going to other Country's before ours! How about our soldiers that come home from war that are now disabled and can't take care of their own families, how about the Seniors that have worked all of their lives and have paid Social Security all of their lives don't get enough money to live on or pay their medical bills after they retire, how about rebuilding some of our poverty stricken areas instead of other Country's? I don't have much sympathy for people who are too lazy to go out and work. I just think the money should stay in our own Country where it is earned!

[on board]

Yes, some people are very rude. Yet many are very compassionate and try to do what they can in small way.

 

One thing I find distasteful is the extreme haggling by tourists to beat the locals down in price. Of course, no one wants to pay $25. for a $1.00 item but when I hear people comparing notes that they bought something for $5.00 while another brags that they nickeled and dimed the guy down to $3.00 it kind of makes me sick. I'm lucky I can afford to go on a nice vacation and if I "overpay" on some trinkets, is it really going to affect my life? No. But it might help a family there.

 

I think for the most part most of who that cruise are in the same financial stability as you are. :rolleyes: Nothing new! I am VERY grateful that DH and I as financially set as young as we are. DH will retire in 2 years and we will be able to travel as much as we want to providing it is safe and our health is good.

IMO, as far as haggling as you put it I always haggle! Not because I am afraid of spending a couple of extra bucks, but because I have good common sense with our money and that is one reason we are where we are financially. That is certainly your business if you don't haggle or compare prices, I for one have will continue and enjoy it! Actually if truth to be known I look at it as a challenge ! I win some and I loose some! BIG DEAL! :D

[on board]

I know where you are coming from, but we have it pretty darn good here. I don't think that bringing our soldiers into this was really nescessary, I do feel sympathy for anyone who loses a loved one in a war, but the reality is military service is a choice, and this is one of the known downsides. I am thankful for their service, but it is not voluntary, they do get paid, if they work really hard it can be a very good career, I wish that we made as much as my sister and her husband that worked very hard for their ranks in the army. By the way I have 2 nephews in Iraq as we speak.

 

I work with many immigrants so I have a little different perspective on things, I had an employee who immigrated here from Bosnia, she lived through the war literally dodging bullets on the street, and having to carry water up 7 flights of stairs to their home, I have worked with people from russia who had to stand in lines in hopes of getting bread, we as americans cannot seem to quite wrap our heads around this.

 

We have great resources to help us out in time of need, and we need to be sensitive to those who are from countries where life is really a struggle, I agree that we need to take care of our own, and it's not our job to take care of the rest of the world. But in this day and age these people do know that their life is bad, there is tv and other media sources to help them realize that unless you live in North Korea.

 

Not a flame just another point of view

 

MAC

 

Well I respect your point of view as I do the others here. Yes right now our military is solely volunteer. On the other hand some of our soldiers dodge bullets everyday, I am sure they carry a lot more than water for hours at a time! Yes they are getting paid to do it but that still should not be a reason to show more sympathy for them because they are from our Country!

Last, I will disagree with you about people in the USA having the resources to help us out in time of need! There are Sooo many people that cannot get health insurance because they make 9.00 an hour instead of the poverty line of 8.00 an hour. So in turn they cannot get the meds. needed to stay healthy, but....we can ship medical supplies to another Country. :D I for one don't see the logic in that what so ever!

[on board]

I agree 100%. These vendors are not getting beat down when they are haggling. These people are shrewd business men and women. Trust me, they will not let anything go unless they make a nice profit. The first price they give you is marked up sometimes 4 times what they will set it for (and with a good profit I might add). They expect you to bargain and haggle that is a part of THEIR culture.

 

 

EXACTLY!! I would think that someone that claims to have so much traveling experience would know this! :D I think some like to make others think they are well off and don't haggle but if truth to be known most do! :rolleyes: